Religion Of Peace & Love Does It Again....

[Van]

His personal "spirituality" was a mish-mash of Germanic neo-pagan occultism.

His parties did manage though to attract all the neo-pagan mish-mash German hotties, and they showed up seriously ready to get their neo-pagan mish-mash freak on...AP-style.

Respect.

[Cuda]

mish-mash

I'll see your mish-mash and raise you two hobnobs

-sin
Bitter Poltergeister

[LTS TRN 2]

After a cursory review it is quite obvious that Dr. Tiller dealt with patients who were carrying very damaged fetuses. In fact, almost all of his patients were referred by other doctors who had determined that the respective fetus was severely impaired. And that's the real story here. The man was a hero, and the asinine religious loons as well as the race survivalists who applaud his murder are pathetic and reprehensible hypocrites.

Here's a testimony of one of Dr. Tiller's patients:

"In 1994 my wife and I found out that she was pregnant. The pregnancy was difficult and unusually uncomfortable but her doctor repeatedly told her things were fine. Sometime early in the 8th month my wife, an RN who at the time was working in an infertility clinic asked the Dr. she was working for what he thought of her discomfort. He examined her and said that he couldn’t be certain but thought that she might be having twins. We were thrilled and couldn’t wait to get a new sonogram that hopefully would confirm his thoughts. Two days later our joy was turned to unspeakable sadness when the new sonogram showed conjoined twins. Conjoined twins alone is not what was so difficult but the way they were joined meant that at best only one child would survive the surgery to separate them and the survivor would more than likely live a brief and painful life filled with surgery and organ transplants. We were advised that our options were to deliver into the world a child who’s life would be filled with horrible pain and suffering or fly out to Wichita Kansas and to terminate the pregnancy under the direction of Dr. George Tiller.

We made an informed decision to go to Kansas. One can only imagine the pain borne by a woman who happily carries a child for 8 months only to find out near the end of term that the children were not to be and that she had to make the decision to terminate the pregnancy and go against everything she had been taught to believe was right. This was what my wife had to do. Dr. Tiller is a true American hero. The nightmare of our decision and the aftermath was only made bearable by the warmth and compassion of Dr. Tiller and his remarkable staff. Dr. Tiller understood that this decision was the most difficult thing that a woman could ever decide and he took the time to educate us and guide us along with the other two couples who at the time were being forced to make the same decision after discovering that they too were carrying children impacted by horrible fetal anomalies. I could describe in great detail the procedures and the pain and suffering that everyone is subjected to in these situations. However, that is not the point of the post. We can all imagine that this is not something that we would wish on anyone. The point is that the pain and suffering were only mitigated by the compassion and competence of Dr. George Tiller and his staff. We are all diminished today for a host of reasons but most of all because a man of great compassion and courage has been lost to the world."

[ADAM]

Imagine if that genocidal freak Hitler saw his fantasy to an end.....

We'd be dealing with a whole different world today......

AND THAT CHRISTIAN FUCKO SHOULD HAVE GOT SHOT IN THE TRENCHES OF FRANCE....

Just an opinion though....I could be misguided....

Or you could be an assbreathing fucktard. Hitler wasn't a Christian, douchedrip.

His personal "spirituality" was a mish-mash of Germanic neo-pagan occultism.

Read your history fucko.....That nazi fuckwad you seem to love so much bastardized any semblance
of christianity or any other religion he tried to claim as arian......You ARE the reason people have abortions....

The occullt
The Hindu

You know what mv.... I had a tidbit of respect for your conservative views...

But now I know YOU ARE SHOT THE FUCK OUT........

[ADAM]

Try again in English someday. You're a mess.

Sprekenzie Deutsch?

[Cuda]

Here's a testimony of one of Dr. Tiller's patients:

the real story...

[Diego in Seattle]

Van;
12,998 died in 2007 as the result of DD.

Atomic Panties;
Thanks for allowing me to occupy your dome rent-free.

Now don't you have a few bedpans to change (if you haven't changed jobs yet again)?

pp;
First of all, congrats on the second baby. May you both enjoy great health (and fewer sleepless nights this time).

But I stand by my earlier statements. Christians can't go around claiming moral superiority when they do the same crap as other religions (killing innocents, denying rights w/o justification, ect.). And that's exactly what the right wingers in here have done. I just pointed out their hypocrisy by using the same type of thread title that they used to knock another religion. Theses people simply have to get off their high horse.

[Moving Sale]

Van;
12,998 died in 2007 as the result of DD.

Please define "as the result of DD" please.

TIA

[Van]

Van;
12,998 died in 2007 as the result of DD.

Please define "as the result of DD" please.

TIA

Definition: Holy fuck, I'm thirty four years old, living in my mom's basement, and I just got killed again by some asshole warlock.

~Blam!~

13K? I could easily see it. :D

[Moving Sale]

I don't get it.

[Atomic Punk]

Atomic Panties;
Thanks for allowing me to occupy your dome rent-free.

Now don't you have a few bedpans to change (if you haven't changed jobs yet again)?

Occupying my dome??? Really? Don't flatter yourself you fucking fruitcake, sandal wearing pedophile. Changing jobs smack when I've worked for the same company for 4 years? hahaha Oh gawd that's sooo funny! Tell you what fruitcup, I will be changing jobs in just a few more months if you want to drop another nuclear blast on me then. It will be so funny. I can't wait.

[Cuda]

[Van]

I don't get it.

DD = Dungeons & Dragons

Just a silly joke, based on a recent South Park episode about World Of Warcraft.

[War Wagon]

But I stand by my earlier statements. Christians can't go around claiming moral superiority when they do the same crap as other religions (killing innocents, denying rights w/o justification, ect.). And that's exactly what the right wingers in here have done. I just pointed out their hypocrisy by using the same type of thread title that they used to knock another religion. Theses people simply have to get off their high horse.

Looks like somebody has a guilty conscience (there's that word I always fuck up) and needs a whole box of tissues.

Nice job of making vague, broad brush accusations without a shred of a fact or specificity to back any of it up.

For instance, who exactly is it that professes to be a Christian is "going around claiming moral superiority"?

[Screw_Michigan]

For instance, who exactly is it that professes to be a Christian is "going around claiming moral superiority"?

Every single dumbfuck, like yourself, claiming if you don't accept the Lord as your savior, you're going straight to hell. Please explain how that is not "claiming moral superiority." Take your time.

[Van]

Wait. You mean to tell me that being excluded from pop's Book of Life isn't a moral judgment of inferiority? Getting the invite doesn't make you any more morally superior than being barred at the door by the bouncer, like you're some fat, Wednesday night hausfrau trying to mix it up with the college coed hotties?

Who knew?

[War Wagon]

For instance, who exactly is it that professes to be a Christian is "going around claiming moral superiority"?

Every single dumbfuck, like yourself, claiming if you don't accept the Lord as your savior, you're going straight to hell. Please explain how that is not "claiming moral superiority." Take your time.

Go ahead and link me up to wherever I allegedly claimed that. Take your time.

But regardless, if somebody were to say that or anything remotely resembling it, it's quite the reach to say they're claiming moral superiority. To them, it's a statement of fact and has nothing whatsoever to do with having morals or a lack thereof.

I think most who claim to be Christians and actually walk the walk and not just talk the talk... are very humble about their faith and recognize beyond a shadow of a doubt their own shortcomings.

[War Wagon]

Wait. You mean to tell me that being excluded from pop's Book of Life isn't a moral judgment of inferiority?

Not in my book, but 'tarts from the old school and does take the Bible almost, if not quite, literally.

I've got him pegged as an Assembly of God or Church of God patron. They don't mess around and you have to "make the team" everyday.

Myself, I'd prefer to align myself more along the lines of the Baptist credo of "once saved, always saved".

[poptart]

I say there is a Book of Life.
Van says there is no Book of Life.

I say Van will die, face judgement, and then go to a place for all eternity.
Van says I will die and become worm food.

I say something.
Van says something.

Looks equal to me.


I attend a Presbyterian Church, Wagon.
But "denominations" are not an issue.
Christ has one Church, and He tells us about the nature of it, and who is in it, in Matthew 16:13-20.

Some of the Bible is to be taken literally and some is clearly not to be taken literally.

[Diego in Seattle]

When that "Book of Life" is used as justification for legislation that denies rights to others, that is claiming moral superiority.

[poptart]

All laws are based on a prevailing morality.

This "morality" is arrived at in MANY different ways.

One person might consider the words of Socrates.
Or Lincoln.
Or Zhu Xi.
Or Aquinas.
Or Nietzsche.
Or their Rabbi.
Or Oprah.
Or Barney Frank.
Or Jesus.


Why do you hate freedom?

[War Wagon]

When that "Book of Life" is used as justification for legislation that denies rights to others, that is claiming moral superiority.

Such as?

[Van]

I say there is a Book of Life.
Van says there is no Book of Life.

I say Van will die, face judgement, and then go to a place for all eternity.
Van says I will die and become worm food.

I say something.
Van says something.

Looks equal to me.

Substitute "mvscal" or "88" for "Van" and you'de be correct there. I merely say those things aren't likely. I don't claim to know, I just suspect.

One big difference, though, is that you condemn me to eternal damnation for my choices here on earth, and if that isn't a moral judgment then I don't know what is.

Conversely, I make no such judgments on you. Confining my judgments to earthly events, I don't tell you you'll get mugged at a 7-Eleven, merely for believing in the Spiritual Tooth Fairy.

I attend a Presbyterian Church, Wagon.
But "denominations" are not an issue.
Christ has one Church, and He tells us about the nature of it, and who is in it, in Matthew 16:13-20.

Some of the Bible is to be taken literally and some is clearly not to be taken literally.

Good to see you've at least backed off a little from the Kool-Aid.

Now, specifically, which things in the bible aren't meant to be taken literally? Give us your list.

[War Wagon]

Now, specifically, which things in the bible aren't meant to be taken literally? Give us your list.

It's a short one and easy to relate.

Pretty much, the entire New Testament. I'm not so sure about the Book of Revelations, thus the caveat.

Edit: List that is to be taken literally.

[Diego in Seattle]

When that "Book of Life" is used as justification for legislation that denies rights to others, that is claiming moral superiority.

Such as?

Such as denying people the same right to marry whoever they choose that you enjoy.

[Van]

Now, specifically, which things in the bible aren't meant to be taken literally? Give us your list.

It's a short one and easy to relate.

Pretty much, the entire New Testament. I'm not so sure about the Book of Revelations, thus the caveat.

Edit: List that is to be taken literally.

Not good enough, WW. I want pop's specific list.

If someone comes to him with doubts about their faith, due to the absurdity of so many things they've read in the bible, I want to know which are the specific events in the bible he points to that aren't meant to be taken literally. When he tries to assuage their doubts, which events does he point to when he says, <this, this and this> are merely allegory.

[Van]

When that "Book of Life" is used as justification for legislation that denies rights to others, that is claiming moral superiority.

Such as?

Such as denying people the same right to marry whoever they choose that you enjoy.

WW has to enjoy them, as part of the marriage stips deal?

Damn, that is pretty restrictive and judgmental. WW, as the final arbiter of marital worthiness? That's downright whack.

[War Wagon]

Such as denying people the same right to marry whoever they choose that you enjoy.

Oh, so now it's about gay marriage, is it? We've gone from legalized abortion on demand to legalized gay marriage on demand and I confess you've stumped me. I'm guessing gay folks don't demand many abortions.

Strange how this debate has now turned upon itself, like a snake swallowing its tail.

Whatever.

[War Wagon]

WW has to enjoy them, as part of the marriage stips deal?

Damn, that is pretty restrictive and judgmental. WW, as the final arbiter of marital worthiness? That's downright whack.

Wait... what Diego obviously meant is that I enjoy denying other people their God given right to marry the same sex. Or a dog. Or a tree. Yeah, that's it.

[Diego in Seattle]

Such as denying people the same right to marry whoever they choose that you enjoy.

Oh, so now it's about gay marriage, is it? We've gone from legalized abortion on demand to legalized gay marriage on demand and I confess you've stumped me. I'm guessing gay folks don't demand many abortions.

Strange how this debate has now turned upon itself, like a snake swallowing its tail.

Whatever.

IOW.....Fail.

Want another example?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090603/ap_ ... _shop_fire

[Van]

WW, sometimes the funniest shit occurs merely from butchered sentences. I knew what Diego was trying to say, but the way he wrote it, wooo, that was awesome.

You, astride your black and gold throne, handing down your marital verdicts, like some sort of wasp-ish David Stern.

[poptart]

Van, about the literal/non-literal thing, this is what I wrote in the Bill Maher thread a while back.
----------------

VAST portions of the Bible are imagery or "non-literal."
Just one of many examples is the "famous" Psalm 23.

~ The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.
He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.
He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.
Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.
Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.
Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever. ~

I don't lie down in green pastures ... literally.
God doesn't lead me beside still waters ... literally.
I don't walk through a valley of the shadow of death ... literally.
And on and on ...

The Book of Revelation is FULL of imagery.
Many of the 66 Books of the Bible also are.
But when someone asks a Christian if they believe in a "literal" interpretation of the Bible, what they really want to know is, "Do you believe in a literal interpretation of the Book of Genesis?"

I do, because that is the way it is written.
Psalm 23, by contrast, is written as imagery.
It's very clear.

If a person had NO other books in the world to look at, NO source of information, NO background to sway his viewpoint, and he picked up Genesis and read the first few books of it, there is NO doubt he would take it all as a very straight forward account of the early days on earth.
It just says, "This happened, and then this happened, and then that happened ... etc."

Only because people have some other "background" of information or bias, do they seek to twist Genesis around.
They deviate from what it clearly says so that they can match the events of the Book to an ideology based on the "information" that they have that they think shoots down a literal reading of the text.

I believe God formed Adam from the dirt.
I believe God formed Eve from Adam's rib.
I believe the serpent (NOT a snake -- big difference -- the serpent is satan, see Revelation 12:9) tempted Eve and deceived her and Adam into leaving God. How satan "communicated" to Eve is not known exactly. It doesn't say.
I believe in Noah's flood.

I believe God.
I believe these things because, as I said, they are written in a very straight forward, matter of fact, way.
It is clearly written to be taken literally.
And also, many of these events were spoken of LATER in Scripture.
Jesus, for just one of many many examples, referenced Noah and the flood.

Now, one can surely be a Christian and NOT believe that some (or perhaps even most) of the events of Genesis literally happened.

Because the fundamental issue is, who do you say Jesus is?

Again, John 5:39 -- the Scriptures testify that SALVATION is in Jesus Christ, and that is the reason why the Bible exists.
The Bible's purpose is not as a history text, or a science text, or any other text.

----------------

That's it.

[War Wagon]

Want another example?

Example of how far your reach exceeds your grasp when trying to prove that Christians are just terrible people?

Got it.

[Diego in Seattle]

Want another example?

Example of how far your reach exceeds your grasp when trying to prove that Christians are just terrible people?

Got it.

It's not a reach (sorry about your inability to deal with reality...sucks for you).

But my point wasn't intended to portray how bad christians are, but simply how they believe their morality is superior to others & thus feel justified to impose it on others.

SYHTFOTW

[Van]

pop, last time we were talking specific events....

Now you're saying you believe in Noah's flood, but what about Noah's ark, and the whole two-of-every-animal-on-earth deal? That's insane, short of copping out and saying, "Nope, god changed their dietary needs, their circulatory systems, their breeding requirements and their modes of transportation. God completely changed their basic criteria for survival. God created breeding pair penguins that could scale mountains and cross thousands of miles of deserts, on foot, with no food or shelter from the conditions. He then housed the ark with AC, and plentiful sardines. Then, when the flood was over, he gave them cab fare for the ride back to the polar ice cap."

Did whatshisface really live to be 900 years old?

One man, born of dirt, just that one guy and his rib created both Shaq O'Neal and Kristi Yamaguchi?

The earth stopped on its axis, without destroying itself and all its inhabitants?

Specifics like these, pop.

[War Wagon]

Again, John 5:39 -- the Scriptures testify that SALVATION is in Jesus Christ, and that is the reason why the Bible exists.

That may be, but for me the most compelling (and difficult) verse in the Bible is Matthew 5:48

King James version, of course:

Be ye therefore perfect, even as your father which is in heaven is perfect.

Woah. That's heavy.

[Van]

Especially when you play in the Big XII South. It's not that hard, if you're in the North.

[poptart]

Wagon, grasping that verse is easy if you look at two quick things.

Ephesians 2:1
And you (believers) hath he (Christ) quickened (made alive), who were dead in trespasses and sins;

Prior to believing in Christ, people are ... DEAD.
Taking Christ makes a person alive.


Ephesians 1:4
According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

BECAUSE we have taken Christ, when God sees us (dumbshits that we are) He SEES us as holy and blameless.


Christ wants people to be "perfect" (Matthew 5:48) by simply believing in HIM.

Apart from Him we can do nothing.



Van, I believe a man died and resurrected three days later and that He is God.
I believe He has all authority in Heaven and on earth.

In and of itself, this is a highly miraculous thing to believe in.

I could answer your "specifics" if you want, but I don't think, as things stand now, you would like the answers you heard from me.

There are answers for those questions.

And there are also questions that I have for God.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

"Don't you think worshipping a guy is a little...gay? Jesus? How about Jane? I could worship a Jane."

[War Wagon]

Not good enough, WW. I want pop's specific list.

If someone comes to him with doubts about their faith, due to the absurdity of so many things they've read in the bible, I want to know which are the specific events in the bible he points to that aren't meant to be taken literally. When he tries to assuage their doubts, which events does he point to when he says, <this, this and this> are merely allegory.

Loaded question, since you don't have any faith to begin with.

Van, you get too caught up in what seems like an almost frantic effort to disprove and disparage the Bible based on only those items which to you, on the surface, seem absurd.

There's an old saying that I find useful, should you ever have the inclination of seeking the faith that right now you apparently have no use for.

Take what you can use, leave the rest.

Lotta' timeless wisdom in that book, even if you don't choose to accept Jesus Christ as the son of God and the savior.

As for myself, I'll reset the line from Jefferson in the Declaration of Independence...

I hold these truths to be self-evident