For the T1B "Gun Club"...

Shlomart Ben Yisrael · Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:54 pm

Any of you peeps ever fired Russian hardware? (or Chinese/Eastern Bloc).

smackaholic · Post by **smackaholic** » Thu Apr 25, 2013 9:07 pm

nope. would like to fire an AK though.

Derron · Post by **Derron** » Thu Apr 25, 2013 9:13 pm

Martyred wrote:Any of you peeps ever fired Russian hardware? (or Chinese/Eastern Bloc).

My nephew bought a Mosin Nagant 7.62 bolt action rifle. I shot it a few times. Pretty decent gun in my opinion. Action felt good, smooth, no problems, nice balance easy to shoot. Fairly accurate with it the first time I ever shot it.

Another of the boys friends brought over some Chinese AK knockoff. Pretty bare bones, weapon, going to have to put a few rounds through it to get the feel and handle of it. Still pretty bad ass for a 7.62. Shot a Romanian one too. They seemed pretty decent. Cheaply built, but never had a "jamb" or misfire. Not as smooth shooting as the AR, but a lot more caliber too. Not in the same quality level as the Mosin though.

I would own one of those Mosins. They are pretty reasonable on armslist.com.

Shlomart Ben Yisrael · Thu Apr 25, 2013 9:19 pm

Derron wrote:"jamb"

nice

smackaholic · Post by **smackaholic** » Thu Apr 25, 2013 9:25 pm

Derron wrote:
Martyred wrote:Any of you peeps ever fired Russian hardware? (or Chinese/Eastern Bloc).
My nephew bought a Mosin Nagant 7.62 bolt action rifle. I shot it a few times. Pretty decent gun in my opinion. Action felt good, smooth, no problems, nice balance easy to shoot. Fairly accurate with it the first time I ever shot it.

Another of the boys friends brought over some Chinese AK knockoff. Pretty bare bones, weapon, going to have to put a few rounds through it to get the feel and handle of it. Still pretty bad ass for a 7.62. Shot a Romanian one too. They seemed pretty decent. Cheaply built, but never had a "jamb" or misfire. Not as smooth shooting as the AR, but a lot more caliber too. Not in the same quality level as the Mosin though.

I would own one of those Mosins. They are pretty reasonable on armslist.com.

the great thing about the AK. It is pretty much jamb proof. purposely built as loose as M2's asshole. not much of a sniper rifle, but, that is not what it was made for.

Derron · Post by **Derron** » Thu Apr 25, 2013 9:46 pm

smackaholic wrote:
the great thing about the AK. It is pretty much jamb proof. purposely built as loose as M2's asshole. not much of a sniper rifle, but, that is not what it was made for.

Exactly. Put a lot of large caliber bullets range down range real fucking fast.

Watch a couple of the boys rip off a couple of clips real fast. After the first 5 or so rounds, recoil and all, they were walking that barrel all over the place. Looked like it was going in a circle. Hitting the ground short of the range and all. Huge difference on how it strayed off target versus the same type of burst on 5.56.

Van · Post by **Van** » Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:06 pm

Derron wrote:armslist.com

Oh, c'mon!

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Thu Apr 25, 2013 11:46 pm

Derron wrote:
Another of the boys friends brought over some Chinese AK knockoff.

I'm actually surprised there's any gun folk here who hasn't wailed on an SKS.
Owned one years ago. POS, but worked fine.

Shlomart Ben Yisrael · Thu Apr 25, 2013 11:48 pm

A friend of mine bought an SKS with a shit ton of ammo for about $200 two years ago.

I was surprised at how small it actually is.

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:49 am

Martyred wrote:A friend of mine bought an SKS with a shit ton of ammo for about $200 two years ago.

I was surprised at how small it actually is.

Bigger than an AK, by a tad.

The SKS Sporter is much cooler (and costs more). Takes AK mags (but don't even bother trying to put an aftermarket hi-cap in it).

Cuda · Post by **Cuda** » Fri Apr 26, 2013 2:17 am

Not exactly Soviet, but definitely Soviet Bloc.

I got one of these Polish P-64 in 9mm Makarov. It's about the same size as a Walther PPK

and one of the Czech CZ82 also in 9mm Makarov- this one has a 12 round magazine + 1 in the chamber. The P-64 only holds 6 in the magazine + 1 in the chamber

Toddowen · Post by **Toddowen** » Fri Apr 26, 2013 2:29 am

Polish P-64

I take it the 64 stands for the average number of minutes it takes one of the testers to chamber a round from the clip after each shot.

Left Seater · Post by **Left Seater** » Fri Apr 26, 2013 2:34 am

Martyred wrote:Any of you peeps ever fired Russian

I have delivered the news to a Russian that we were letting him go, although I wasn't the one who made the decision.

Cuda · Post by **Cuda** » Fri Apr 26, 2013 2:37 am

Toddowen wrote:
Polish P-64
I take it the 64 stands for the average number of minutes it takes one of the testers to chamber a round from the clip after each shot.

more likely the year it went into the people's service. it's a fine weapon. you could easily blow your brains out with one. you should give it a try, comrade

Toddowen · Post by **Toddowen** » Fri Apr 26, 2013 2:50 am

Cuda wrote:
more likely the year it went into the people's service.

I would've thought it would stand for the average number of post between Cuda actually replying with one of his own.

Shlomart Ben Yisrael · Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:02 am

Left Seater wrote:
Martyred wrote:Any of you peeps ever fired Russian
I have delivered the news to a Russian that we were letting him go...

It was because he refused to believe the totally fake narrative about Muslims flying planes into the WTC, right?

IT'S BECAUSE HE BROUGHT UP THE LOGICAL HYPOTHESIS THAT CONTROLLED DEMOLITIONS BROUGHT THE TOWERS DOWN!

Answer me, damn you! Are you also part of the cabal!?!?

:x

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:34 am

Cuda wrote:I got one of these Polish P-64 in 9mm Makarov.

I may have owned a PP at some point... one of the Frenchie models, after all the arms manufacturers got kicked out of Germany.

Moby Dick · Post by **Moby Dick** » Fri Apr 26, 2013 10:56 am

laid waste to a few hogs with an AK47 a few months ago with a buddy...first time i ever went hog hunting.

extremely fun. and surprisingly good meat

smackaholic · Post by **smackaholic** » Fri Apr 26, 2013 11:54 am

You are surprised that pig tastes good? I thought this was common knowledge to anyone not a fundie jew/muzzie.

Left Seater · Post by **Left Seater** » Fri Apr 26, 2013 2:06 pm

Martyred wrote:
Left Seater wrote:
Martyred wrote:Any of you peeps ever fired Russian
I have delivered the news to a Russian that we were letting him go...

It was because he refused to believe the totally fake narrative about Muslims flying planes into the WTC, right?

IT'S BECAUSE HE BROUGHT UP THE LOGICAL HYPOTHESIS THAT CONTROLLED DEMOLITIONS BROUGHT THE TOWERS DOWN!

Answer me, damn you! Are you also part of the cabal!?!?

:x

No LTS, it had far more to do with his inability to stop pucks from finding the back of the net he was allegedly defending.

Cuda · Post by **Cuda** » Fri Apr 26, 2013 6:33 pm

so you shot him? nice work, comrade!

mvscal · Post by **mvscal** » Fri Apr 26, 2013 10:23 pm

Yeah. I fired just about everything the Iraqis had. AKs (genuine pieces of shit) mostly. Also fired ZPU-2s and 4s which were fun as fuck.

Shlomart Ben Yisrael · Fri Apr 26, 2013 10:28 pm

mvscal wrote:Yeah. I fired just about everything the Iraqis had. AKs (genuine pieces of shit) mostly. Also fired ZPU-2s and 4s which were fun as fuck.

Was the Dragunov standard issue with the drop-ass conscripts, or strictly Republican Guard gear?

smackaholic · Post by **smackaholic** » Fri Apr 26, 2013 10:37 pm

mvscal wrote:Yeah. I fired just about everything the Iraqis had. AKs (genuine pieces of shit) mostly. Also fired ZPU-2s and 4s which were fun as fuck.

And I would bet that those genuine pieces of shit would still do what they were made to do, put lead down range. This is why they are one of the best weapons ever made. They are absolutely jamb proof no matter what sort abuse they are subject to at the hands of monkeys.

Shlomart Ben Yisrael · Fri Apr 26, 2013 11:51 pm

smackaholic wrote:...no matter what sort abuse they are subject to at the hands of monkeys.

Cuda · Post by **Cuda** » Sat Apr 27, 2013 1:54 am

someone had to do it, comrade. Rackskis, tovarich

mvscal · Post by **mvscal** » Sat Apr 27, 2013 5:53 am

Martyred wrote:
mvscal wrote:Yeah. I fired just about everything the Iraqis had. AKs (genuine pieces of shit) mostly. Also fired ZPU-2s and 4s which were fun as fuck.

Was the Dragunov standard issue with the drop-ass conscripts, or strictly Republican Guard gear?

The Iraqis made a lot of knock offs of the Romanian PSL. They weren't uncommon.

mvscal · Post by **mvscal** » Sat Apr 27, 2013 5:55 am

smackaholic wrote:This is why they are one of the best weapons ever made.

No, it isn't. It's a piece of shit. The Soviets dumped it in the early 70s.

smackaholic · Post by **smackaholic** » Sat Apr 27, 2013 10:14 am

mvscal wrote:
smackaholic wrote:This is why they are one of the best weapons ever made.
No, it isn't. It's a piece of shit. The Soviets dumped it in the early 70s.

It fills its role as a guerrilla fighter weapon perfectly in that it is more or less indestructable. There are far better weapons for properly trained troops who actually maintain weapons.

Cuda · Post by **Cuda** » Sat Apr 27, 2013 6:58 pm

mvscal wrote:
smackaholic wrote:This is why they are one of the best weapons ever made.
No, it isn't. It's a piece of shit. The Soviets dumped it in the early 70s.

They didn't dump the AK design, they just re-barreled it for an inferior round. They dumped the vastly superior 7.62x39 round in favor of what was essentially a copy of the 5.56 Nato round- which has proven itself inferior and pretty much inadequate in both Iraq, and Afcrapistan.

mvscal · Post by **mvscal** » Sat Apr 27, 2013 9:05 pm

Cuda wrote:the 5.56 Nato round- which has proven itself inferior and pretty much inadequate in both Iraq, and Afcrapistan.

Wrong.

Derron · Post by **Derron** » Sat Apr 27, 2013 9:52 pm

Cunta wrote:
mvscal wrote:
smackaholic wrote:This is why they are one of the best weapons ever made.
No, it isn't. It's a piece of shit. The Soviets dumped it in the early 70s.
They didn't dump the AK design, they just re-barreled it for an inferior round. They dumped the vastly superior 7.62x39 round in favor of what was essentially a copy of the 5.56 Nato round- which has proven itself inferior and pretty much inadequate in both Iraq, and Afcrapistan.

Do you happen to own either of those weapons ? Or have any experience at all with them in a comparative manner?

Cuda · Post by **Cuda** » Sat Apr 27, 2013 10:35 pm

Well, Duhrron, I've had an AK in the past. And a couple of AR15's, and even a FAL clone in .308

The ballistic superiority of the 7.62x39 over 5.56 Nato round really shouldn't be questioned by anyone with any sense. There's a reason why they brought as many of the old .308 caliber M1A/M-14 rifles out of storage as they could for operations in Iraq: The 5.56 round couldn't punch thru cinder blocks or car doors (the bullets pretty much disintegrate), had no practical ability to "reach out and touch" the enemy at long range, yet would overpenetrate at close range without causing adequate damage. The 7.62x39 round on the other hand sufferes none of these weaknesses. The drawback of the Kalashnikov design itself is that long range accuracy (200-500 meters) suffers due to the short sight-radius- but then it wasn't meant to be a long range battle rifle, but a short to medium range buttfuck-the-emeny-in-the-mouth bludgeon.

I recently got rid of my AR15. I've never been a big fan of the 5.56 round and I never really could get used to, or even tolerate the whiney "zinggg, zinggg, zinggg" from the goddamned buffer tube in the stock. I sold it for $800 more than I paid for it. I kind of regretted trading away the FAL clone, but the 2 S&W revolvers I took in trade are probably worth more now than I paid for the rifle. As far as the AR-15 goes, I'd rather have my M1 Carbine; it's a better rifle and I think the round is better ballistically than the 5.56/.223. I've got a M1 Garand too.

mvscal · Post by **mvscal** » Sun Apr 28, 2013 1:25 am

They didn't bring M14s back to shoot through cinderblocks and cardoors, dumbass. As far as the 5.56 overpenetrating and not causing adequate damage that is pure bullshit.

There is certainly role for the 7.62x51 on the battlefield. That role is not as the round for a primary service rifle. The M14 eventually found its niche but it never came close to approaching its original design specs. It was supposed to replace the Garand, the BAR and the M3.

The M16 and M4 are outstanding weapons and their longevity is more than enough proof of that.

Cuda · Post by **Cuda** » Sun Apr 28, 2013 5:51 pm

mvscal wrote:They didn't bring M14s back to shoot through cinderblocks and cardoors, dumbass.

They brought it back because the 5.56 was proving itself inadequate on the battlefield.

There is certainly role for the 7.62x51 on the battlefield. That role is not as the round for a primary service rifle.

That's because there aren't sufficient numbers of M1A/M14's available anymore nearly 50 years after McNamara and his whiz kids, approved the M16. The M1 Garand was the primary service rifle until the M14 came along and both it and the BAR fired the 30.06 cartridge, which is slightly more powerful than the .308. There really wasn't any great need for the M14 to replace the BAR other than cost of manufacture, and the fact that NATO wanted everybody to standardize on the .308 round used by the FAL. What there really wasn't any need for was to replace the proven Garand based M14 with the flawed design of the M16. The big problem troops had with the M14 was using it full auto. After a few decades, they figured out one of the problems with the M16 was using it full auto. Another problem was just plain shitty design. It's still the only weapon made that has (or even needs) a forward assist to force the bolt into battery when it has a mis-feed.

The M16 and M4 are outstanding weapons and their longevity is more than enough proof of that.

Horseshit, Corporal mvscal. If the full auto M16 was so fucking great, why did it evolve into the M4 that's restricted to 3 round bursts?

It's "longevity" has largely been in peacetime. In battle, it was used less than 10 years in Vietnam (where it was such a piece of shit that anybody who could do so, refused to carry it), a few days worth of battle in Grenada, a few months worth of battle in Desert Storm, and now a dozen years in Iraq and Afcrapistan, where, once again, anybody in a position to do so, carries an M14. It remains popular mostly because of people like Duhrron who think a black rifle makes them a badass.

smackaholic · Post by **smackaholic** » Sun Apr 28, 2013 5:53 pm

The 5.56 round does just fine. It is not intended to shoot through vehicles and houses. It is intended to fukk up people with pretty decent accuracy at decent ranges. Will a 7.62 do more damage? Sure, in some instances, assuming you are close enough to actually hit anything. But, if you are the rifleman that has to carry a few thousand rounds, you rather be toting the 5.56 as it weighs roughly half as much. Guerrilla AK toting dude is less concerned as he is likely to engage in hit and run skirmishes which don't require dragging thousands of rounds with you.

smackaholic · Post by **smackaholic** » Sun Apr 28, 2013 6:02 pm

Cuda wrote:Horseshit, Corporal mvscal. If the full auto M16 was so fucking great, why did it evolve into the M4 that's restricted to 3 round bursts?

For the same reason they use a relatively small round. Some fukking shmuck has to carry that shit in the field. Having a smaller round and 3 round bursts means you will still be shooting when the fukker on the other side who has been lobbing big heavy rounds in full auto, is out of ammo.

We have weapons like the 240B for when you wanna put up a heavy wall of lead. Everyone having this capability slows them down and requires more people. Remember, logistics win wars and the M16 is logistically friendly compared to the AK.

mvscal · Post by **mvscal** » Sun Apr 28, 2013 6:40 pm

Cuda wrote:They brought it back because the 5.56 was proving itself inadequate on the battlefield.

They brought it back because the fighting in western Iraq and most especially in Afghanistan exposed a doctrinal weakness in our force structure. A significant number of engagements were happening beyond the effective range of the M4 exposing the need for a designated marksman at the squad level. The role has nothing to do with shooting through cinderblocks. When we want to chew up some masonry we use a 240. The M14 is used exclusively for precision shooting in the ~500 meter range.

The M16 and M4 do exactly what they are supposed to do and do it very well.

That's because there aren't sufficient numbers of M1A/M14's available anymore nearly 50 years after McNamara and his whiz kids, approved the M16.

WRONG. We are never, ever under any circumstances going back to a .308 service rifle. Nobody on planet earth is either.

If the full auto M16 was so fucking great, why did it evolve into the M4 that's restricted to 3 round bursts?

Cyclic rate of fire. I used the M16A1 in basic so I had a chance to fire it on full auto. You will empty a 30 round mag in 3 seconds. The 'spray and pray' fire mode was switched to three round burst with the A2. It improves accuracy and conserves ammo. The A3 model and the M4A1 are still full auto.

As far the forward assist goes, the only time I ever had to use it was when firing blank ammo.

It's "longevity" has largely been in peacetime. In battle, it was used less than 10 years in Vietnam (where it was such a piece of shit that anybody who could do so, refused to carry it), a few days worth of battle in Grenada, a few months worth of battle in Desert Storm, and now a dozen years in Iraq and Afcrapistan, where, once again, anybody in a position to do so, carries an M14.

More bullshit. It's teething problems were solved long before the end of Vietnam. It sounds like you've read one too many anonymously sourced chain emails that are invariably exposed as hoaxes and frauds by anybody who actually knows what they're talking about ie not you.

mvscal · Post by **mvscal** » Sun Apr 28, 2013 7:29 pm

smackaholic wrote:You are surprised that pig tastes good?

Boar meat can be horrifically foul. It will smell like it has been marinaded in stale piss. It is a pheremone produced in the nuts of adult boars and accumulates in the fat. It doesn't happen in all boars and not all humans are sensitive to it. I had tainted boar meat once and it put me off pork for a couple months. It was truly vile.

If you are hunting game for meat, young females always make the best eating.

Van · Post by **Van** » Sun Apr 28, 2013 8:37 pm

young females always make the best eating.

I challenge anyone to rebut that statement.