Ohhh, Vannie: It's time for your Crow once again...

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M2
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Ohhh, Vannie: It's time for your Crow once again...

Post by M2 »

When will you ever learn... not to question "the truth?"


Let"s revisit November 3rd and 4th of 2012, shall we ?


M2 wrote:The "interception machine" was up to his old tricks and just landed himself in the 4th round of the NFL draft.



Remember what you had to say about that ?

Let's go back into the time machine and take a look...



Van wrote: Want to bet on that one?
Van wrote:Barkley looked damn good tonight and last week as well, all things considering. He certainly did nothing to hurt his high first-round draft stock.
Van wrote:NFL GMs are a little smarter than that, M2.
Van wrote:What they saw tonight was further confirmation that he's easily the best pro-style QB in all of college football.

http://www.theoneboard.com/board/viewto ... 4&start=40





Dig in my friend...



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Van
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Re: Ohhh, Vannie: It's time for your Crow once again...

Post by Van »

That, and the fact that he went on to have a bad senior year, capped off by a major injury to his throwing shoulder. Had the guy entered the draft following his junior year he easily would have been a top ten pick, and had his senior year gone anything like his junior year he would have been the #1 overall pick.

A bad senior year coupled with a major shoulder injury in the final game tends to put paid to such things.
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Re: Ohhh, Vannie: It's time for your Crow once again...

Post by MgoBlue-LightSpecial »

Van wrote:That, and the fact that he went on to have a bad senior year
Weird, you didn't mention that at the time you were glamorizing him in that thread. He had played all nine of his games at the time you posted that.
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Re: Ohhh, Vannie: It's time for your Crow once again...

Post by Mace »

As surprising as it is, m2 finally got one right. Van's failure to man up is not so surprising.
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Van
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Re: Ohhh, Vannie: It's time for your Crow once again...

Post by Van »

And exactly what is it you expect me to say? Every last "expert" was still calling Barkley the top NFL-ready QB in the nation. Heading into this past season, he was the consensus #1 pick in the draft. He had a progressively bad senior year (the Oregon game notwithstanding, since he looked great in that one and put up monster numbers) culminating in a serious injury to his throwing shoulder.

Of course those two facts changed things. If you wish to say that M2 predicted those things, by all means, go ahead. Of course he didn't. All he said was that the guy threw a lot of interceptions, which is clearly not the reason his draft stock fell so precipitously. If all his games had been like the Oregon game (484 yards, 5 TDs, only one pick that was his fault, and plenty of right-on-target bombs), hell yes, he easily would have gone on to be the #1 pick. In that game he looked like the Matt Barkley we all saw during his junior year.

Nice try, though. Call me when M2 actually makes a prediction and sticks around once his prediction goes to shit. See: his Cal predictions, his SEC predictions...practically all his predictions.

He never does. He also never "mans up" and puts his name to his picks in Pick 'Em. So, basically, fuck him.
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Re: Ohhh, Vannie: It's time for your Crow once again...

Post by MgoBlue-LightSpecial »

toolio's douchiness aside, I just think it's funny how you're now acting like it's soooo obvious that Barkley's "bad senior year" had a major impact in where he was drafted, when at the time you wrote that glowing review of him, not even a blip of concern about that registered on your radar. And you had access to the exact same information about his season then as you do now.

Besides, he didn't even have a "bad" season. He finished 3rd in the country in passer rating. He had a good season by any objective measure, but played on a team with a bad defense. In any event, the NFL drafts more on measurables and potential than a guy's college production. His injury definitely played some role in his drop, but it wasn't so severe that it dropped him from a top 10 pick to the fourth round. This wasn't some Marcus Lattimore-esque series of horrific injuries we're talking about. Fact is, when it came to evaluation time, he was widely considered to be an average athlete with an average arm. That's really all there was to it. Really nothing dynamic about his game at all.
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Re: Ohhh, Vannie: It's time for your Crow once again...

Post by Mace »

MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote: Fact is, when it came to evaluation time, he was widely considered to be an average athlete with an average arm. That's really all there was to it. Really nothing dynamic about his game at all.
Yep, he's the 2012 version of Mark Sanchez....pretty fucking average.
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Van
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Re: Ohhh, Vannie: It's time for your Crow once again...

Post by Van »

MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote:toolio's douchiness aside, I just think it's funny how you're now acting like it's soooo obvious that Barkley's "bad senior year" had a major impact in where he was drafted, when at the time you wrote that glowing review of him, not even a blip of concern about that registered on your radar
Like I said, he'd just had an awesome high-profile game. Had the draft been held November 4th he would have been fine. Maybe no longer first-pick fine, but definitely first-round fine.

The rest of his year and much of what he'd already done that year wasn't nearly on the same level, but that Oregon game would have gone a long way towards solidifying his status had he just continued on that same arc for the rest of the year...and not gotten hurt.
And you had access to the exact same information about his season then as you do now.
See above.
Besides, he didn't even have a "bad" season. He finished 3rd in the country in passer rating. He had a good season by any objective measure, but played on a team with a bad defense.
By his standards and NFL top-pick standards he had a bad year. His TD/Interception ratio was way off, and he didn't win any big games. His junior year he was dominant while winning all those games (except the Stanford game) and he looked every bit as good as Andrew Luck did in their head-to-head matchup. He just didn't look like that for the majority of his senior year, and he capped it off by getting the worst sort of injury a QB can get heading into the draft.
In any event, the NFL drafts more on measurables and potential than a guy's college production. His injury definitely played some role in his drop, but it wasn't so severe that it dropped him from a top 10 pick to the fourth round.
It was certainly more his overall meh senior season that did him in. The injury was clearly a contributing factor but had his year otherwise looked much like his junior year it wouldn't have hurt him nearly so badly in the draft. He really only had one or two great performances his senior year.
This wasn't some Marcus Lattimore-esque series of horrific injuries we're talking about. Fact is, when it came to evaluation time, he was widely considered to be an average athlete with an average arm. That's really all there was to it. Really nothing dynamic about his game at all.
Except for the fact that that same average arm and athleticism would have landed him a top ten pick following his junior year and a #1 overall pick a few days ago, had he just looked like the 2012 Matt Barkley. Everyone agrees that his arm strength is far more than sufficient to make all the NFL throws. Again...Peyton Manning...Drew Brees...Tom Brady...ad nauseum. A huge arm is one of the very least important components of successful play in the NFL. What's between a guy's ears is far more important, and no one had any questions about his leadership abilities, intelligence, aptitude, and overall fundamental skill-sets.

Relatively speaking, he just saw everything fall apart his senior year. No one was expecting it: not me, not you, not M2, not Lane Kiffin, not the NFL scouts. He needed a lot more of those Oregon games and many fewer UCLAs.
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Re: Ohhh, Vannie: It's time for your Crow once again...

Post by MgoBlue-LightSpecial »

Van wrote:The rest of his year and much of what he'd already done that year wasn't nearly on the same level, but that Oregon game would have gone a long way towards solidifying his status had he just continued on that same arc for the rest of the year...and not gotten hurt.
What he had "already done" that year obviously wasn't of any concern to you at the time you made your prognostication. Only now, after the fact, are you bringing it up as a reason he dropped in the draft.

The "rest of the year?" What the hell are you talking about? He only played two more games after that point. One resulted in an easy win and in the other he had pretty good numbers despite the loss. In any event, two whole games doesn't hurt anybody's draft stock, unless they set unbreakable records of suckitude.
By his standards and NFL top-pick standards he had a bad year. His TD/Interception ratio was way off, and he didn't win any big games. His junior year he was dominant while winning all those games (except the Stanford game) and he looked every bit as good as Andrew Luck did in their head-to-head matchup. He just didn't look like that for the majority of his senior year, and he capped it off by getting the worst sort of injury a QB can get heading into the draft.
Third nationally in passer rating, which encompasses everything. That's not "bad" by anybody's standard. The only reason he didn't win more big games is because his defense wasn't worth a shit.
It was certainly more his overall meh senior season that did him in.
So then why didn't you say that on November 4th, 2012? You seemed to leave that part out when you were tongue-fucking his taint. Talk about revisionist history. Or are you really suggesting that two whole mediocre performances after the Oregon game dropped him from a top ten pick to a 4th rounder? Oh yeah, coupled with that "career-changing" injury. :meds:
Except for the fact that that same average arm and athleticism would have landed him a top ten pick following his junior year and a #1 overall pick a few days ago, had he just looked like the 2012 Matt Barkley. Everyone agrees that his arm strength is far more than sufficient to make all the NFL throws. Again...Peyton Manning...Drew Brees...Tom Brady...ad nauseum. A huge arm is one of the very least important components of successful play in the NFL. What's between a guy's ears is far more important, and no one had any questions about his leadership abilities, intelligence, aptitude, and overall fundamental skill-sets.
At that point in Barkley's college career, his praise was all based on media hype, nothing more. Guys like Kiper and McShay blowing his cock. He hadn't been officially evaluated by any NFL scouts, gone through the combine, gone through a pro day, etc. 2011 was an exceptionally good class for QBs, there's no guarantee he would have even sniffed the top 10. The very fact he came back probably tells you all you need to know about what he heard from his advisers. In any event, we'll never know. What we DO know, however, is that when he went through the actual draft process, he was graded out as nothing more than an average talent in what is considered to be one of the worst QB draft classes of all time. Sorry, but that's just the way the cookie crumbles sometimes.
Relatively speaking, he just saw everything fall apart his senior year. No one was expecting it: not me, not you, not M2, not Lane Kiffin, not the NFL scouts. He needed a lot more of those Oregon games and many fewer UCLAs.
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Re: Ohhh, Vannie: It's time for your Crow once again...

Post by Van »

If you expected me to say he'd be a fourth-round draft pick following that Oregon game, you're right, I was wrong. And so was everyone else who wasn't trolling M2, yourself included. And if you think Todd McShea and Mel Kiper were the only talent evaluators (not just hype merchants) who had Barkley pegged as the #1 pick heading into this season, well, you're wrong there too. Practically everyone had him #1, and people who are pegged as the presumptive #1 pick aren't given such praise merely based on hype. All the guys Kiper, McShea, et all have as #1 heading into the draft do in fact come in at or close to #1.

Notice how those same two guys no longer had him slotted nearly so highly following his disastrous senior year/injury. Oddly, though, they did still call him the guy with the most NFL QB-ready skillsets.
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Re: Ohhh, Vannie: It's time for your Crow once again...

Post by Killian »

To play both sides of this argument, the poor TD/INT ratio didn't hurt Mike Glennon this year or a guy like Matt Ryan in 2008. Even said, Barkley still graded out as a first round talent.

I think part of his drop had to do with the lack of production from other USC quarterbacks.
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Re: Ohhh, Vannie: It's time for your Crow once again...

Post by Van »

One of the best lines I've read regarding that very subject was posted in one of the ESPN comments forums...

"Matt Barkley needs to send Mark Sanchez, Matt Leinart, John David Booty and Carson Palmer a big, fat bill."

To be TiC fair, though, Carson Palmer was a full-on stud in the NFL before his injury. Until that Pittsburgh game, there probably weren't five teams in the league who wouldn't have gladly traded their QB for him.
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Re: Ohhh, Vannie: It's time for your Crow once again...

Post by Killian »

Palmer is the outlier (obviously) in that group. He was having a very good NFL career until he got rolled. Leinart and Sanchez obviously hurt him.

I hate these fucking talking heads and their draft projections. In November, the same two dolts were talking about Te’o being a top 10, possibly a top 5 pick. He was never, ever going to go that high, with or without the NC game performance and subsequent scandal. Same thing when McShay was touting Jevan Snead and Andre Woolfolk as 1st round QB’s. Snead didn’t get drafted and I think Woolfolk went in the 5th or 6th round, if at all.

But these kids listen to them and use their opinions to base their decisions on if they should go. Personally, I don’t think Barkley was a first round QB this year or last year, but I admit I don’t know shit. I always saw a kid who had ok size, ok athleticism, and pretty good decision making. Nothing about him ever jumped off the screen. Always seemed like a Trent Dilfer type of QB. Manage the game, make a throw here or there but basically don’t fuck it up. For his sake, hopefully he can sit a year or two behind McVick the crime dog and wait to see if the Eagles can put together an offensive line for him.
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Re: Ohhh, Vannie: It's time for your Crow once again...

Post by Van »

Unless Chip Kelly has no plans to take his Oregon offense with him to Philly I cannot imagine a worse scenario, team-wise, for Barkley. That guy has no business being in a read-option scheme. It's a perfect fit for Vick, at least until he inevitably gets killed trying to run that thing against NFL defenses. It couldn't be a worse fit for a guy like Barkley who clearly is much more suited for the type of offenses we see in Denver, New England, Houston, Pittsburgh, Chicago, Dallas, New York (either one), etc.

All I can see there is one of two things: 1. Chip isn't planning on trying to implement his Oregon offense in the NFL; certainly not on any full-time basis, anyway. 2. Philly drafted Barkley in the hopes of Kevin Kolb-ing him, i.e., somehow building his value before dangling him as trade bait.
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Re: Ohhh, Vannie: It's time for your Crow once again...

Post by Killian »

A lot of New England’s recent offensive success came after Hoodie went to Oregon and learned how Kelly got so many plays off. Kelly’s offense could be very dangerous with a smart QB who can get his team to the line, read a defense, call a play, and throw it to the right spot. I don’t see why Barkley couldn’t be that guy in a year or two. Let Vick take a beating for a year behind a patch work offensive line and have Barkley learn the playbook inside and out. If Kelly handles this in a similar manner to the way Fischer brought along Steve McNair, I think this could be a very good pick.

Kelly isn’t dumb enough to try to bring the zone read to the pros on a full time basis.
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Re: Ohhh, Vannie: It's time for your Crow once again...

Post by Van »

The problem there is the obvious one: Barkley isn't able to execute the keep-it-and-take-off option aspect of the zone read. He isn't going to scare anybody with his legs.

Nope, he needs to be in a system that's all about making quick throwing reads supplemented by a traditional strong running game. He's strictly in the Peyton Manning mold.
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Re: Ohhh, Vannie: It's time for your Crow once again...

Post by Laxplayer »

Hey fucktard......wasn't it you that predicted something at the start of this past season and I threw down a bet to you. All I heard for months was crickets. Now you've got the nad to call someone else out on something. The next time you actually pay up on a bet, or are man enough to accept one based on your fucked up predictions will be the first.
Until you do that quit calling others out on theirs. It just shows what a truck fuck head you really are.
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Re: Ohhh, Vannie: It's time for your Crow once again...

Post by Left Seater »

Laxplayer wrote:a truck fuck head

Uhhhhh,...rack it.... :?
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Re: Ohhh, Vannie: It's time for your Crow once again...

Post by Laxplayer »

Sorry...a true fuckhead......
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Re: Ohhh, Vannie: It's time for your Crow once again...

Post by King Crimson »

i sorta like truck fuck head.
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Re: Ohhh, Vannie: It's time for your Crow once again...

Post by Screw_Michigan »

King Crimson wrote:i sorta like truck fuck head.
"What's that say, I'm a fuck head?"

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kcdave wrote: Sat Sep 09, 2023 8:05 am
I was actually going to to join in the best bets activity here at good ole T1B...The guy that runs that contest is a fucking prick
Derron wrote: Sat Oct 03, 2020 3:07 pm
You are truly one of the worst pieces of shit to ever post on this board. Start giving up your paycheck for reparations now and then you can shut the fuck up about your racist blasts.
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Re: Ohhh, Vannie: It's time for your Crow once again...

Post by M2 »

Van wrote: you're right, I was wrong.

Well, of course I was.

Now that wasn't that hard, was it ?

Van wrote:And so was everyone else who wasn't trolling M2,

Ok, now you're just getting repetitive.




Anyways, it's good to see you step up and admit to "the truth".


and for that... you get one of my wenches from Florida



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