Mr. Tebow

[mvscal]

So was Steve McNair. Sure maybe they could have picked Tebow up in a later round, but that strategy can bite you in the ass, too. If you believe the guy is a legitimate starting QB, you pull the trigger. His projected status doesn't enter into it.

I agree with your point there.

I'm just not sure I understand why Dungver was so hot-to-trot for the guy.

I've given my own view - that I think there's a decent chance he'll end up being a starter sometime.
But that's a far cry from being THE guy for your future.

I guess we'll just have to revisit this thread a few years later and see where it stands.

Or even a few weeks later. So much for the alleged demotion to 3rd string. He clearly outplayed Orton yesterday and almost pulled off a win. Orton quit and so did the rest of the team around him. Tebow sparked the team and the crowd. His accuracy will improve with experience and he can extend plays which is something that Orton can't do and I'm not even sure Quinn wants to play. He's just in the NFL for all the lifting and steaming.

Tebow clearly has the "it" factor. That's why the Donks were so hot-to-trot for him. You can't coach that. Mechanics and accuracy can be coached if the play is willing to listen and learn.

[War Wagon]

Personally, I don't think there is a QB in the NFL who wouldn't be or wouldn't have been better off riding pine and running the scout team for a couple years. It certainly hasn't hurt Aaron Rodgers or Phillip Rivers.

Cam Newton is in the same boat right now except that he's going straight into the meat grinder.

So is Blaine Gabbert and I don't think he's ready either. Problem is that when a team makes a big investment in a guy by drafting him in the 1st round, they expect immediate results.

I'll hate to see my boy flame out because he was rushed into duty before he even knew what city he was in.

[mvscal]

Problem is that when a team makes a big investment in a guy by drafting him in the 1st round, they expect immediate results.

Not always. It depends on the team and on the player.

[Felix]

Tebow clearly has the "it" factor. That's why the Donks were so hot-to-trot for him. You can't coach that. Mechanics and accuracy can be coached if the play is willing to listen and learn.

tebows enthusiasm is infectious as you could clearly see that it translated to both the offense and defense....fuck the mechanics, right now tebow gives the broncos the best opportunity to win....orton better learn to use a clipboard, because I'm pretty sure timmy wrested the starting job away from him....

[Felix]

Stayin' outta this. I'll just sit back and watch.

why? tebow is what he is (which is a serviceable quarterback) but he brings certain intangibles that orton doesn't have....you'll never convince me that Tebow is a better qb than orton at this particular moment, but it's plain to see that the offense has quit on orton and orton has quit on them...maybe he's given up because people are constantly chanting for tebow but for whatever reason, orton's thrown in the towel...the worst disservice Fox could do to the broncos right now would be to start orton in miami

[DallasFanatic]

Personally, I don't think there is a QB in the NFL who wouldn't be or wouldn't have been better off riding pine and running the scout team for a couple years. It certainly hasn't hurt Aaron Rodgers or Phillip Rivers.

Cam Newton is in the same boat right now except that he's going straight into the meat grinder.

So is Blaine Gabbert and I don't think he's ready either. Problem is that when a team makes a big investment in a guy by drafting him in the 1st round, they expect immediate results.

I'll hate to see my boy flame out because he was rushed into duty before he even knew what city he was in.

That's a poor excuse Wags. You can make cases for success at the quarterback position whether you were drafted first overall and started day 1, drafted 1st overall and sat for a couple years, or were selected in the 7th round. The bottom line is if you have talent, it will rise to the top and so will your team, despite the problems that will present itself in the first few years of getting to know the NFL.

If your boy flames out its because he sucked.

[mvscal]

you'll never convince me that Tebow is a better qb than orton at this particular moment,

Maybe, in a perfect world scenario where all the pieces are in place, Orton might be a more capable game manager but that situation rarely applies. Considering the protection problems and injuries at the receiver position, Tebow is a much better QB than Orton at this particular moment.

[Shoalzie]

The end of the month, the Leos are in Invesco. Timmy better strap on the Mark Kelso lid because he will be hunted. We might find out if he's mortal or not because he may die that day.

[Felix]

Tebow is a much better QB than Orton at this particular moment.

a better option at this particular time-yes
a better QB right now-probably not

it sure wasn't all orton's fault....some protection might be nice....

The end of the month, the Leos are in Invesco.

fuck me running, timmy will be scrambling for his life under the pressure of that pass rush

Coach John Fox said Tuesday he'll start Tim Tebow against the Miami Dolphins when the Broncos return from their bye week.

TEBOW TEBOW TEBOW

[mvscal]

it sure wasn't all orton's fault....some protection might be nice....

Since Tebow can do more with less, doesn't that make him the better QB? And Tebow will be a much better option against the Lions than Orton. The Lion front seven is very good but they don't impress me a particularly disciplined group. That is something that could theoretically present some problems.

I'm not really sure why I even like this kid or want to see him succeed. He's pretty much everything I despise: a Gator, a Christian and a Donk. I don't get it.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

I'm not really sure why I even like this kid or want to see him succeed. He's pretty much everything I despise: a Gator, a Christian and a Donk. I don't get it.

Ahh, so it's not that you think he'll succeed, you want him to. I figured there was some factor overriding your sensibility.

[War Wagon]

That's a poor excuse Wags. You can make cases for success at the quarterback position whether you were drafted first overall and started day 1, drafted 1st overall and sat for a couple years, or were selected in the 7th round. The bottom line is if you have talent, it will rise to the top and so will your team, despite the problems that will present itself in the first few years of getting to know the NFL.

If your boy flames out its because he sucked.

I wasn't making excuses, Gabbert got what he wanted. But he may be too young, dumb, and full of cum to know what's best for him. The Jags may not know either as they seem on the verge of moving to LA or some shit.

He should be playing his senior year of college right now for ol' Mizzou, not dicking around in the NFL.

[mvscal]

The Jags may not know either as they seem on the verge of moving to LA or some shit.

Probably not and Del Rio is desperate. That might not put Gabbert in the best position. Do they even have any receivers in Jacksonville? I haven't noticed any.

[Felix]

I'm not really sure why I even like this kid or want to see him succeed. He's pretty much everything I despise: a Gator, a Christian and a Donk. I don't get it.

I'm with you-I despise Florida QB's and don't particularly care for the outspoken christer types, but there something about him that makes me want to see him succeed...and not just from a bronco fan perspective either

[buckeye_in_sc]

I fucking hate him...I hope he fails MISERABLY...

[poptart]

Negative shit thrown his way?

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=37498&p=711098&hili ... rs#p711098


My takes there...

I'm not a college ball fan, so I while I heard fans retching over the continual Tebow ball-washing the last couple years, I sort of shrugged it off.

But good frickin' grief, man, today's announcers are jizzing themselves over EVERY move the guy makes.

Tim Tebow's shit smells like Chanel No. 5.


Have some dignity, dipshit.

He did fine for a first start.

#1, he didn't turn the ball over - so that alone is very good.
He had a NICE 40 yd TD run.
He was 7-14 for about 140 yds passing - nothing special at all.

It was ok.

The EXTREME ballwashing by Johnson and Tasker over EVERYTHING he did, though ...

GEEZ!


I think this about him:

He's tough, smart, and competetive.
He can make serious plays with his legs, but teams are soon going to figure out that they need to plug the middle because that is where he wants to do his running damage.
He lacks the speed to get outside in the NFL.

He's got to improve as a passer.
An NFL QB simply HAS to convert third down passes to be a success.

Seriously, when I watched that game last year it was, well... UNREAL the way the announcers washed his balls for EVERYTHING he did.

A two yard gain by Teblow was THE GREATEST two yard gain evar produced.

It was some seriously bizarre shit.

[Screw_Michigan]

Tebow drives ratings. A successful Tebow drives ratings even further. Of course the broadcaster are gonna fellate his balls like Vannie listening to himself talk.

[Felix]

Tebow drives ratings. A successful Tebow drives ratings even further.

ding ding ding...we have a winner!!!

He's the anti Vick....

I thought Bradford was the "anti-Vick"......I need an updated program to keep this shit straight

[Shoalzie]

I can already see the Good vs. Evil promos for the game on Sunday...Suh with with devil horns standing over and taunting a proned Matt Ryan with the red ass coach screaming on the sidelines and Tebow with a halo as he scraped out a ghastly win against a possible 0-16 Dolphins. I'll happily wear the evil label if it shuts up the Tebow hype machine for a week.

[Van]

Sam, Sunday's game against the Dolphins is merely Exhibit 427 of why Tebow won't make it as a QB in the NFL. He wasn't merely awful, as in he had a bad day at the office. No, he looked like he clearly had no business taking snaps at that level.

Keep in mind, he's now had two full NFL training camps and just a ton of tutelage, and still he looks like a fullback pressed into emergency duty behind the center. Other than running the football and being a grossly overhyped 'leader,' he doesn't do anything at the level expected of an NFL QB.

Put it this way: If he were a black QB coming out of Texas Tech or Clemson, he not only isn't receiving this opportunity and all this hype, he doesn't even get drafted. We're only still talking about him because he's Tim Tebow(tm), not because of anything he does once the play begins.

[Dinsdale]

Yet among QBs who have started a game, he's Top-10 in QB Rating (FWIW).

About the same as Fitzpatrick, Roethlisberger, Stafford, and Alex Smith.

[mvscal]

Keep in mind, he's now had two full NFL training camps

No, he hasn't.

being a grossly overhyped 'leader'

Try watching a game or two someday, idiot.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

Eric Decker basically said he sucks.

[Van]

Gonna have to do better than that, mvscal. The guy was dog-awful for three-and-a-half quarters against one of the three worst teams in the NFL. Had Denver been faced with a real opponent then that deficit would've been a lot more than fifteen, that sack total would've been a lot higher than seven, and his brand of 'comeback' QB-play is no longer on the table. His running around and holding-the-ball-far-too-long nonsense is going to get him killed when he's down four TDs to solid NFL squads, and his shoddy fullback-cum-QB play is going to land Denver precisely in that position.

[mvscal]

Gonna have to do better than that, mvscal. The guy was dog-awful for three-and-a-half quarters against one of the three worst teams in the NFL.

And then he shook it off and won the game. You weren't even aware that the lockout washed out training camp and OTAs this year, so why would anyone think you know the slightest bit of fuck about it? Have you even followed pro football at all anytime in the last 20 years or so?

You dismiss his leadership ability despite the fact that the team plays harder with him in the lineup than it did with Orton. It's plainly visible to even a casual fan and not subject to debate. I know you hate it because it isn't something you can quantify by reading a box score but, pretending it doesn't make any difference makes you a grade A dumbfuck.

You claim the Dolphins suck (and they do) but so does Dungver. Their offensive line is a bad joke. They just traded their best receiver and their other two starting receivers just came back from injury last week. Oh, yes and their starting running back broke his hand. Their defense isn't much better. It's a team in complete rebuilding mode and they have very few pieces in place in place at this time.

But, of course, you didn't know that because you don't follow the game. Feel free to take your shit take having ass back the college forum.

[poptart]

I like the way Tebow lowered his shoulder and accelerated into the hit - and then popped up and went into his rah-rah shit.

A freaking 'roided-up Bobby Douglas, the guy looks like.

[Van]

Flail your arms and wet you knickers all you want, mvscal. Trying to claim that I haven't watched NFL football is just your usual loud, grandiose...nothing.

Are you seriously going to try and claim that the lockout-shortened preseason in any way, shape or form diminishes the fact that the guy has received two years of constant tutelage, and still the guy cannot function as an NFL QB?

Did you see any of the first three-and-a-half quarters of that game? His poor decision-making? His sundial release? His comical innacuracy? His abominal numbers? His wretched play leading to a fourth-quarter 15-0 deficit at the hands of a team that has lost about nine-hundred straight at home? Did you see Miami vs the Jets only the week before?

That's who was shutting out Denver, and most of it was down to Tebow simply being unable to get out of his own way. Had it been just about anyone but Miami, that deficit is a lot more than fifteen and he doesn't 'lead' them anywhere but to a larger asskicking.

And again, would we even be having this talk if the guy was a black QB out of Taco Tech rather than being Mr. White Christian Squeaky Clean Messiah Boy? Don't even try to pretend that we would because we both know he would've gone undrafted, and nobody would've cared one iota about him latching on to the tail end of some roster as a free agent scrapping for playing-time crumbs.

[poptart]

Van, there's no doubt all the media attention comes because he's the Holy white boy hero.

I think we'll see Tebow go for about a 5 or 6 game spell here as Donkey starter.
He no doubt brings an energy that rubs off on the team a bit.

But that'll wear off when the reality sinks in to his teammates that he can't be counted on to hit the 3rd down pass to keep the chains moving.

Orton will prolly be called on to finish off the season, imo, because Timmy honestly isn't yet (if ever) ready to really lead the team fulltime.

[mvscal]

Orton will prolly be called on to finish off the season, imo, because Timmy honestly isn't yet (if ever) ready to really lead the team fulltime.

Orton is done in Dungver barring injury. They know what he is which is a decent game manager with limited mobility and zero leadership potential. Tebow gives the team the best chance now anyway given their shitty o line.

Elway & Co. are going to want to take a long look at Tebow under game conditions to make a proper evaluation.

[mvscal]

Are you seriously going to try and claim that the lockout-shortened preseason in any way, shape or form diminishes the fact that the guy has received two years of constant tutelage, and still the guy cannot function as an NFL QB?

The fact is that he hasn't received two years of constant tutelage. He's gone through one training camp. I'm not sure which part of no contact between staff and players during the lockout you're struggling to comprehend but let's see if we can bottom line your inane rambling here.

After one training camp and four professional starts, Tebow's professional development has plateaued. No further game experience, practice time as the starter or coaching will make any difference. This is as good as gets. Is that a fair assement of your so called "take"?

Tacking on an apple pie to watermelon comparison between him and some po black chile with a similar skill set from Taco Tech doesn't further your argument either or even make any sense. Tebow is a Heisman winner, two time national champion with a pretty impressive stat sheet and he achieved it on the biggest stage in college ball not some sideshow in Lubbock. Of course the media is going to be slobbering all over him. That's what they do to winners. And even with that level of success he still graded out as a project QB who would likely need several years to adjust to the pro game. Not even his most myopic supporters claimed he was going to be ready to go right out of college.

[Van]

mvscal, Tebow is now two seasons removed from college and still his mechanics and accuracy are no better than yours. NFL QBs arrive with NFL-ready skillsets. They need time to mature, but that involves learning the mental aspects of the game as well as adjusting to its increased speed. Struggling to master the basics of delivering a pass isn't supposed to be a part of the NFL learning curve.

And you're right, he hasn't received two years of constant tutelage. In point of fact, he's received a good five to six years of constant tutelage. IIRC, he played four years for the Florida Gators before ever donning an NFL uniform. I'm fairly certain Urban Meyer and his coaches spent time every day in practice making him throw the ball, and he sure as fuck did all sorts of QB-training with people like Jon Gruden both before and after his NFL Pro Day, and ever since.

Face it, mvscal, if he wasn't Tim freaking Tebow, no one would even bother. His skillset doesn't warrant this committed of a look by the Broncos, who are only doing so because the guy is a fan favorite on a team that has no other options.

[mvscal]

mvscal, Tebow is now two seasons removed from college

Are you struggling with basic math along with everything else? It's been less than a year and a half and he was, at least, a full two season project. Nevertheless, he has already engineered two 4th quarter comebacks of 13+ points down or more. If anything, Tebow is way ahead of schedule.

NFL QBs arrive with NFL-ready skillsets....IIRC, he played four years for the Florida Gators before ever donning an NFL uniform. I'm fairly certain Urban Meyer and his coaches spent time every day in practice making him throw the ball,

In a pro style offense? "IIRC," tards like you never missed the chance to express your opinion that the spread, read option he played at Florida did nothing to prepare him for the NFL. Now you want to eat your cake, too? I don't think so. Just fuck off with that bullshit.

Face it, mvscal, if he wasn't Tim freaking Tebow, no one would even bother.

But he is Tim freaking Tebow: winner at every level of the game he has ever played and he's already pulling games out of his ass when he isn't even anywhere near ready to go in the NFL.

[Felix]

Orton will prolly be called on to finish off the season, imo, because Timmy honestly isn't yet (if ever) ready to really lead the team fulltime.

orton is never going to start for denver again.....the rest of the team has given up on him
if tebow flames out, they'll go with brady quinn

[Nixhex]

[Van]

If anything, Tebow is way ahead of schedule.

Set the bar low enough and there is no standard he won't surpass. During his second NFL season a first-round draftpick's learning curve is not supposed to include checking off items such as "successfully completing a twenty-yard out pattern" or "delivering the ball deep down the middle in a timeframe suitable to preclude the watching of an entire episode of Sixty Minutes."

NFL QBs arrive with NFL-ready skillsets....IIRC, he played four years for the Florida Gators before ever donning an NFL uniform. I'm fairly certain Urban Meyer and his coaches spent time every day in practice making him throw the ball,

In a pro style offense? "IIRC," tards like you never missed the chance to express your opinion that the spread, read option he played at Florida did nothing to prepare him for the NFL. Now you want to eat your cake, too? I don't think so.

I (we) was (were) correct then, and it's obvious two years later. Being of limited skills to begin with and playing in a spread offense, the guy was never cut out to be an NFL QB. Making him a first-round pick was ludicrous. First-round picks are not supposed to be mere 'projects,' which correctly refers to a guy who possesses immense talent and limited skills/experience. Projects are 7'2" athletic freaks from Africa who've never touched a basketball. Projects are 260 lb fullbacks with 4.5 speed who maybe played one season of football at Occidental College.

Projects are not football lifers who spent fours years playing for Urban Meyer at the University of Florida. Guys like that are supposed to be fairly finished specimins who merely require a bit of time to acclimate to the different speed and expanded playbooks of the NFL game. They aren't still supposed to be at the bottom of the basic-skills learning curve.

Face it, mvscal, if he wasn't Tim freaking Tebow, no one would even bother.

But he is Tim freaking Tebow: winner at every level of the game he has ever played

Every level? And what levels are those? High school and college football? You mean all two of them? BFD. Everyone on those Florida squads was a similar winner, in large part because that whole damn team was really good. Being a winner in college means jackshit once it's time to line up behind center in the NFL. Keep in mind that your winner was only a situational player behind Chris Leak for the first title, and Tim Tebow(tm) failed to deliver a title in two of the three years he was a starter.

While that's no damning statement, the fact is that he was surrounded by incredible talent at Florida and still he came up short two out of three years. If he was a winner—which he was—so were many other guys on those teams...and what about it?

Danny Wuerfful was a winner too. So were Scott Frost, Gino Torretta, Jason White and Tommy Frazier, and just like Tim Tebow none of those winners ever had a shot of being real a NFL QB simply because none of them had NFL-level talent/skillsets.

So, okay, exactly how many years do you want to give Tebow before you finally admit that no, he will never be worth a damn as an NFL QB? Oh, and before you try to burp up any other lame excuses for Tebow, try to remember that there are guys like Cam Newton and Sam Bradford who started and succeeded in the NFL as rookies despite having played in non-pro style spread offenses in college. They were able to do so because...wait for it...they have NFL-level talent.

All the work ethic in the world is fantastic, and kudos to Tebow for giving it his best. The thing is, there are are countless marginally skilled guys in NFL training camps who work their asses off every bit as much as Tebow does, and they're never going to get a sniff. While sustained success in the NFL is certainly built on a foundation of hard work, its basic architecture must include serious helpings of otherworldly talent; something Tebow clearly does not possess, at least not as a QB, anyway.

and he's already pulling games out of his ass when he isn't even anywhere near ready to go in the NFL.

He's having to pull those games out of his ass because of the hole he put his team in with his awful play throughout the rest of the game, and he hasn't shown that he can sustain anything against a good team.

[ChargerMike]

^^^^^^ waiting for chapter two.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

As much as TT rubs me the wrong way with his preachiness, how can you not respect a guy who is willing to work as hard as he does? The guy is everything that 99% of the NFL is not these days.

Give me a break. Nobody knows that Tebow works harder than everyone else in the league, we're just led to believe that because he's got adverts on ESPN shown bench pressing and dripping sweat and uttering inspirational messages.

By all accounts Matt Stafford is a tremendously hard worker, but he doesn't get attention for that because he can actually play the game.

Tebow's a hard worker, no doubt, but so are a ton of other guys in the league, especially quarterbacks. Yeah, there are a few lazy, entitled slobs who manage to get by on talent alone, but there's no way that kind of player makes up the majority. Albert Hainesworth is the exception, not the rule. This is the NFL. You don't get to this level, with sustained success, unless you're a grinder.

And even if he IS the hardest worker, so what? He HAS to be, in order to make up for the fact he sucks balls. The problem for Tebow is, if he wants to be a successful starting NFL qb, he'll have to beat out a talent pool of guys who also grind & work hard but ALSO have the skill sets to play the position at a high level. That's where, down the road, he'll be fucked.

[Felix]

Set the bar low enough and there is no standard he won't surpass. During his second NFL season a first-round draftpick's learning curve is not supposed to include checking off items such as "successfully completing a twenty-yard out pattern" or "delivering the ball deep down the middle in a timeframe suitable to preclude the watching of an entire episode of Sixty Minutes."

mvscal is right....you need to stick to the college forum, because you know jack shit about the pro game......

Projects are not football lifers who spent fours years playing for Urban Meyer at the University of Florida. Guys like that are supposed to be fairly finished specimins who merely require a bit of time to acclimate to the different speed and expanded playbooks of the NFL game. They aren't still supposed to be at the bottom of the basic-skills learning curve.

what makes you think he's at the "bottom of the basic-skills learning curve"?

Every level? And what levels are those? High school and college football? You mean all two of them? BFD. Everyone on those Florida squads was a similar winner, in large part because that whole damn team was really good. Being a winner in college means jackshit once it's time to line up behind center in the NFL. Keep in mind that your winner was only a situational player behind Chris Leak for the first title, and Tim Tebow(tm) failed to deliver a title in two of the three years he was a starter.

is there some other level he should have been winning at that I'm unaware of? and the fact that he didn't deliver a national title disqualifies him? fuck, I guess that pretty much disqualifies every starting quarterback in the NFL....

Danny Wuerfful was a winner too. So were Scott Frost, Gino Torretta, Jason White and Tommy Frazier, and just like Tim Tebow none of those winners ever had a shot of being real a NFL QB simply because none of them had NFL-level talent/skillsets.

and everyone of those guys got a shot at the NFL and flamed out....and Tebow may as well...but he's worth the price to find out whether he can develop into a decent NFL QB...he's never going to be a great quarterback, but he bring intangibles you can't coach....the Denver team rallied to him and they won....now that will probably wear off, but it got them close in the game with San Diego and it got them the victory in Miami....

So, okay, exactly how many years do you want to give Tebow before you finally admit that no, he will never be worth a damn as an NFL QB? Oh, and before you try to burp up any other lame excuses for Tebow, try to remember that there are guys like Cam Newton and Sam Bradford who started and succeeded in the NFL as rookies despite having played in non-pro style spread offenses in college. They were able to do so because...wait for it...they have NFL-level talent.

why are you so concerned about whether Tebow is a success or not....you're not a denver fan, and as far as I know, you're not a fan of any particular team, so why do you give a fuck?

there are are countless marginally skilled guys in NFL training camps who work their asses off every bit as much as Tebow does, and they're never going to get a sniff.

what the fuck, you make this sound like they're choosing sides for the kickball game at fucking grade school....NFL teams could give a flying rats ass who works hard and who doesn't....they want people that can help them win football games and make them money-that's the bottom line....he helped them win against Miami, sells shitloads of merchendise, and generates viewership.....so far he's exactly what their looking for

he hasn't shown that he can sustain anything against a good team.

so you've concluded this based on the ONE game he's started this year?

holy shit dude, I'm a big Denver fan and as critical of them as anyone, and even I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.....

[Joe in PB]

I thought it was a mistake for Denver to fire Josh McDaniels. Sure he made a few mistakes (everyone in NFL personnel does), but he did have the Broncos offense humming, with Orton! Tim Tebow certainly would be better now, with a system in place that fits his style. John Fox stinks to high heaven. He had the Panthers underachieving for years, a couple of them all he had to do was win the final home game against the likes of a stinkin' Tampa Bay Bucs team and they were in the playoffs. What happened? They got whacked, blown out at home. Terrible hire, Fox is over matched as a HC, & is defensive coordinator material at best.

The only thing Denver has found out since the departure of Shannahan & McDaniels, is that John Elway is worst than both at player evaluations. This franchise is fucked.....

Eagle fan take note in the calling for Reid's head, careful what you wish for, you just might get it.

[Felix]

I thought it was a mistake for Denver to fire Josh McDaniels. Sure he made a few mistakes

it wasn't his "mistakes" that cost him his job, it was his arrogance....that shit doesn't fly in denver....

John Fox stinks to high heaven.

yeah the game has advanced while he's remained pretty stagnant.....his plodding offensive style is well-offensive, and ineffective in this day and age of high flying offensive attacks....you've have to have quick strike capabilities in the NFL and Denver doesn't have it.....

The only thing Denver has found out since the departure of Shannahan & McDaniels, is that John Elway is worst than both at player evaluations. This franchise is fucked.....

I think the jury is still out in Denver on whether Elway is worth a fuck in evaluating talent, but given that it's Elway, he'll get a longer rope than most....McDaniels was the guy pushing for the Tebow trade....