this guy gets it

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SoCalTrjn
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this guy gets it

Post by SoCalTrjn »

http://collegefootballpundit.com/2011/0 ... tart-over/
On June 10, 2010, the NCAA’s Committee on Infractions (COI) hit the USC football program with the stiffest sanctions regime it had imposed since the infamous SMU case of the mid 1980s. USC would lose two postseason appearances, get docked 10 scholarships per year for three years and be limited to 15 new scholarship players per year for three seasons. The COI also ordered USC to disassociate itself from the Heisman-winning player at the center of the scandal, imposed severe restrictions on access to football practices and sidelines during games and vacated the entire 12-win 2005 season – which included legendary games against Notre Dame and Texas.

But the biggest kick in the gut came when the COI vacated two USC victories from the end of the 2004 season (including its blowout victory over Oklahoma in the BCS Title Game), and on top of that deemed every junior and senior currently on USC’s roster a “free agent” – permitting them to transfer to any other school in the country without penalty. The signal could not be more clear: the NCAA was out to destroy USC… or at least the COI was.

Indeed, it was the Committee headed by Dee which had wrapped a “lack of institutional control” finding around USC’s neck.

“Lack of institutional control” (or “LOIC,” as it’s now popularly referred to in the blogosphere) was the basis for the precedent-setting penalties levied against USC.

The linchpin of the case against USC was of course Bush, and the money and benefits he and his family had accepted from two wannabe sports agents, Lloyd Lake and Michael Michaels (yes, that is really the name he uses). While the COI brought other violations under the LOIC rubric (for example, Pete Carrollhad used a non-staff “consultant” to breakdown game tape during the offseason), these violations – even cumulatively – would not normally warrant heavy punishment under NCAA-established precedent. For example, Michigan self-imposed a penalty of “reduced offseason workouts” for the same type of consulting violation, which the NCAA ultimately ratified.

The case against USC was about the benefits to Bush and why nobody at USC put a stop to them. In that regard, it’s important to review just exactly what Bush and USC were guilty of. Bush, his stepfather and his mother unquestionably accepted tens (if not hundreds) of thousands of dollars in benefits from Lake and Michaels in clear violation of NCAA rules. Bush’s parents lived in a new house rent-free for nearly a year, probably received free transportation to at least two USC road games, and may have taken cash on top of that. Bush, for his part, bought a used 1996 Chevy Impala in 2005 (presumably from funds supplied by Lake and Michaels), stayed a night at the Venetian Hotel in Las Vegas on Michael’s credit card, and may have accepted money for improvements to the car. (The widely distributed photograph of Bush standing next to a “souped-up” version of his Impala was not taken until August 2006, months after he had signed a multi-million-dollar contract with the New Orleans Saints. The entire COI Report can be found here.

Beyond that, however, the case is more complicated than it may seem. For example, the benefits package given to Bush’s stepfather was part of a prospective business arrangement between Michaels and Lake, on the one hand, and Bush’s stepfather, LaMar Griffin, on the other, to form a “sports marketing” agency, which presumably would feature Bush as the center attraction. Michaels and Lake were not USC alumni, boosters nor even fans. Michaels (real name Michael Pettiford) was apparently some “mover and shaker” type with a connection to the Sycuan Indian Tribe in San Diego County. Lake was a recently paroled ex-con who attended Helix High School, also in San Diego. Helix was not only the high school that produced Bush, it apparently was also the employer of his stepfather, Griffin. It was the Helix High/San Diego connection (not USC) which served as the basis of the relationship between Lake, Michaels, Griffin and, ultimately, Bush.

Which Institution Really Lacked Institutional Control?

There has never been any credible evidence that any employee, alumnus or booster of USC was in any way involved with these illicit benefits. Nor did the COI predicate its penalty on direct involvement by USC. And, perhaps most importantly, the Bush scandal had nothing to do with recruiting. (Indeed, the payments to Bush didn’t really give USC a competitive edge at all, but perhaps that’s best left for a different article.) Instead, Dee’s Committee determined that USC “should have known,” and by not knowing it failed to maintain the requisite level of “institutional control.”

Just how exactly USC “should have known” about all this strikes at the heart of Dee’s conflict of interest and the trouble the NCAA will have in enforcing Dee-decreed precedent going forward. The case against USC, and indeed the entire LOIC findings, appears to be predicated on three factual determinations: first, former running backs coach Todd McNair knew Bush was receiving improper benefits, and that knowledge is imputed to the entire University; second, USC staff and compliance officers should have recognized that Bush was on the take by virtue of the Impala he began driving to school in the winter of 2005; and finally, that USC woefully understaffed its compliance department. Unfortunately for Dee, the case against him for conflict of interest is substantially enhanced by exploring these determinations.

First, the case against McNair is extraordinarily weak. Indeed, McNair is now suing the NCAA for millions of dollars in damages because the COI singled him out for specific punishment (above that handed to USC). There is virtually no evidence of “knowledge” on the part of McNair. The COI rested its findings on four telephone calls between the cell phones of McNair and Lake, and really nothing else. The first three calls were failed connections in a one-minute time frame on an October night in 2005 when Bush was hosting Percy Harvin on a recruiting trip to USC. All evidence indicates that McNair was attempting to reach Bush regarding Harvin’s visit on an alternative number Bush had given to McNair – a cell number belonging to Lake (who was out with Bush on that night). The only other documented contact between McNair and Lake was a January 2006 call lasting approximately two-and-a-half minutes initiated by Lake, which took place after Bush’s final game in a USC uniform. McNair testified that he did not recall this conversation (nor any communications at all, for that matter, with Lake). It’s possible that Lake merely reached McNair’s voicemail and left a long message. It’s also possible the two discussed Bush’s illicit benefits in detail for two-and-a-half minutes. Or, something else entirely could have happened. But, that is all really beside the point, as the call occurred after Bush’s final game at USC.

Also tending to exculpate McNair is the fact that in this era of electronic communications, there is not one email, one text message, one saved voicemail evidencing McNair’s knowledge of wrongdoing (or even any knowledge of Lake at all). Lake himself took great pains in saving documents (and illegally recorded phone conversations) which would tend to implicate Bush and his stepfather; yet, he had nothing on McNair. And, indeed, when he was deposed by NCAA compliance investigators, Lake admitted that he had no direct information that McNair knew what was going on… that is, until the compliance investigators suborned Lake’s perjury, convincing him to reverse his story and make a sweeping accusation that McNair “knew” or “had to know” without any factual basis.

As to Bush’s “new” used 1996 Chevy Impala, it’s not entirely clear how this vehicle somehow forms the basis for a LOIC finding. As previously discussed, the car was apparently “tricked out” after Reggie signed with the Saints. Moreover, in a city like Los Angeles, and on a campus like USC, a Chevy Impala – regardless of how new or old or “tricked out” it is – hardly stands out. To the extent Dee would demand that USC officials conduct an in-depth investigation into how funds were obtained to procure such a vehicle, that requirement appears completely absurd in retrospect, given the far more flagrant and conspicuous shenanigans happening at Miami right under Dee’s nose.

Finally, the business about USC’s “understaffed” compliance department is, at best, a red herring. The very model of NCAA compliance departments has long been recognized as Ohio State, which maintains a large staff and is quick to notify the NCAA of even minor violations. Of course, that didn’t interfere at all with wide spread rule breaking by Ohio State players, including, apparently, Buckeyes star Terrelle Pryor driving to practice on Ohio State’s campus with a variety of different new cars supplied by a Columbus dealer (slightly more conspicuous, one would think, than one used Chevy Impala). Dee’s complaint that USC understaffed compliance is really just a way of saying USC didn’t do enough busy work to satisfy him.

The specter of Dee’s bias was apparent from the moment the COI decision was made public. While the COI was staffed with several other professionals, and the NCAA’s compliance investigators had on their own clearly participated in prosecutorial improprieties (not only by coercing Lake to change testimony, but by listening in on illegally-recorded taped phone calls made by Lake), it was Dee who instantly became the poster boy of NCAA discipline. Immediately after sanctions were announced, Dee held a press conference where he told the media that USC’s punishments were based – not on NCAA precedent – but on the sanctions the NCAA had imposed on Dee’s Miami program back in the 1990s resulting from the biggest Pell Grant scandal in United States history – a scandal that involved Miami coaches and staff illegally funneling Pell Grant funds to Miami football players. For that, the NCAA imposed a loss of 31 scholarships and a two-year bowl ban. Dee appealed and the NCAA reduced the penalty to 24 scholarships and a one-year post-season ban. During his June 10, 2010 press conference, Dee unmistakably explained that Miami’s Pell Grant sanctions were used as the benchmark for the sanction his Committee was imposing on USC (never mind that Miami’s infractions actually involved university employees fraudulently directing taxpayer cash to football players). Indeed, Dee even pontificated on how USC could recover going forward by using Miami as an example: “You have to be extremely careful in your recruiting. Only bring in the right people that are going to be able to help you, was our point of view back at Miami.”

It was also during this press conference that Dee made what had previously been the most famous line of the Bush ordeal:

“This case strikes at the heart of the principles of amateurism.”

Only now, against the backdrop of eight years of Shapiro running rampant under Dee’s nose, has his other notable quote from that press conference risen to such prominence:

“High profile players demand high profile compliance.”

Taking this standard at face value, one wonders exactly what Dee would now find as the proper punishment for his Miami program – a Dee program that apparently failed to administer compliance over some of the most high-profile football players in recent memory: Frank Gore, Devin Hester, Andre Johnson, Willis McGahee, Antrel Rolle, Sam Shields, Sean Taylor, Jonathan Vilma, Vince Wilfork, Kellen Winslow, Jr., D.J. Williams – i.e., the starting lineup for the Pro Bowl.

Of course, the punishment handed down to USC – for benefits to one player with no involvement from university employees, alumni or boosters – hugely complicates any punishment for Miami. If Dee’s 30-scholarship, two-year-bowl-ban, every-junior-and-senior-is-a-free-agent standard is applied, what does Miami get? Using the “high profile players demand high profile compliance” standard, Miami has about 78 Reggie Bushes on its hands.

The simple answer, of course, is that the NCAA won’t punish Miami in accordance with this standard; it’s wholly impractical, if not impossible.
Gets rid of all of the misinformation that has been ignorantly spread on boards like this one for years and lays everything out there in black and white from a neutral position.
NCAA is a sham

doubt any of you fuckers will read it though because it tears down the myths you have built up in your heads
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Re: this guy gets it

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:lol:
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Re: this guy gets it

Post by Goober McTuber »

Image

Leave USC alone!!
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Re: this guy gets it

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SoCalTrjn wrote:My pussy hurts
And I didn't read it for the same reason I don't read Fox News articles ripping Obama or CNN articles ripping Bush.
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Re: this guy gets it

Post by WolverineSteve »

I will say that the whole investigation process and procedures seem overly complicated. There should be uniform punishments. If you give illegal benefits you get x punishment, recruiting violations, y punishment etc. As it is now the penalties seem random.
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Re: this guy gets it

Post by MiketheangrydrunkenCUfan »

I think USC got fucked as hard as they did because they actually stood up to the NCAA, rather than kowtowing like so many other universities do when they find themselves in the NCAA's sights. SC fans have a legitimate gripe if teams like Ohio St. and Miami aren't dealt with more harshly. I know it's easy to hate USC, a) because of toejam and b) because they're USC, but I guarantee everyone on this board would feel the same way if it was their team...
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Re: this guy gets it

Post by MiketheangrydrunkenCUfan »

Believe the Heupel wrote:
MiketheangrydrunkenCUfan wrote:I think USC got fucked as hard as they did because they actually stood up to the NCAA, rather than kowtowing like so many other universities do when they find themselves in the NCAA's sights. SC fans have a legitimate gripe if teams like Ohio St. and Miami aren't dealt with more harshly. I know it's easy to hate USC, a) because of toejam and b) because they're USC, but I guarantee everyone on this board would feel the same way if it was their team...
Yeah, it's totally odd that a quasi-judicial body hammers the living shit out of you when you fail to cooperate with their investigation. Oh, wait. It's not.
Never said it was odd. It actually makes perfect sense that said quasi-judicial* body would try to make an example of some uppity private school that dared to defend itself against the allegations of a jilted ex-con.

* ("quasi" being the operative term, since an actual judicial body would likely allow the accused to cross-examine key witnesses)
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Re: this guy gets it

Post by Dinsdale »

Toejam bashing aside... it's become a zoo.

USC got hammered big -- yet the other schools that have been tagreted (some blue-chips, some not) appear to have commited much worse vioations, and can be accused of much worse LOIC than USC.

Oregon looks like a chiorboy (calm down, Domerfan) compared to Miami and tOSU.

Goingto be hard justifying anythingless than USC got for those two (those two in particular, anyway).
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WolverineSteve wrote:I will say that the whole investigation process and procedures seem overly complicated. There should be uniform punishments. If you give illegal benefits you get x punishment, recruiting violations, y punishment etc. As it is now the penalties seem random.
You're asking for common sense from the only branch of organized sports without a playoff?
E UNUM PLURIBUS
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Re: this guy gets it

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Dinsdale wrote:Oregon looks like a choirboy compared to Miami and tOSU.
It's amazing to me how the ESPN machine of shitty reporting trickles down to the masses so efficiently. Ohio State didn't provide sex or money to its recruits. The players were selling their own memorabilia for tattoos. How treacherous!
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Re: this guy gets it

Post by Dinsdale »

L45B wrote:
Dinsdale wrote:Oregon looks like a choirboy compared to Miami and tOSU.
It's amazing to me how the ESPN machine of shitty reporting trickles down to the masses so efficiently. Ohio State didn't provide sex or money to its recruits. The players were selling their own memorabilia for tattoos. How treacherous!

It's amazing how myopia trickles down to the disingenuous so effciently.

So, some guys selling trinkets at a tattoo parlor was all there was to it?

I guess ESPM/media really did do a number on all of us... I could have sworn hearing something about the HC knowingly playing ineligible players and stuff.
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Re: this guy gets it

Post by SoCalTrjn »

L45B wrote:
Dinsdale wrote:Oregon looks like a choirboy compared to Miami and tOSU.
It's amazing to me how the ESPN machine of shitty reporting trickles down to the masses so efficiently. Ohio State didn't provide sex or money to its recruits. The players were selling their own memorabilia for tattoos. How treacherous!

Yep, they have a bunch of brain deads saying that USC didnt cooperate with the NCAA during the investigation even though the NCAA thanked them for all of the cooperation that USC, according to other people, did not provide. Even the link provided here dismisses the myth that USC did not cooperate but nobody reads anything that will contradict the myths they want to believe in.
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Re: this guy gets it

Post by M Club »

L45B wrote:
It's amazing to me how the ESPN machine of shitty reporting trickles down to the masses so efficiently. Ohio State didn't provide sex or money to its recruits. The players were selling their own memorabilia for tattoos. How treacherous!
Or how the stupid trickles up through your water supply. SC was busted because an assistant coach knew about Reggie's own cash-for-being-awesome scheme; OSU's head coach knew as much about five times as many players and covered it up. Not sure how the "we couldn't have known what the man we paid $5 million a year to safeguard our cash cow was up to" defense really flies, ESPN or not.
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Re: this guy gets it

Post by SoCalTrjn »

M Club wrote:
L45B wrote:
It's amazing to me how the ESPN machine of shitty reporting trickles down to the masses so efficiently. Ohio State didn't provide sex or money to its recruits. The players were selling their own memorabilia for tattoos. How treacherous!
Or how the stupid trickles up through your water supply. SC was busted because an assistant coach knew about Reggie's own cash-for-being-awesome scheme; OSU's head coach knew as much about five times as many players and covered it up. Not sure how the "we couldn't have known what the man we paid $5 million a year to safeguard our cash cow was up to" defense really flies, ESPN or not.

A photo shopped picture and a 150 second phone call at 2 am after Reggie played his final game at USC means that McNair knew? Forget the fact that Lake told the NCAA that there was no way anyone at USC could have known what was going on, you are now saying that a coach knew, Paul Dee, is that you?
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Re: this guy gets it

Post by Left Seater »

SoCalTrjn wrote:
A photo shopped picture and a 150 second phone call at 2 am after Reggie played his final game at USC means that McNair knew? Forget the fact that Lake told the NCAA that there was no way anyone at USC could have known what was going on, you are now saying that a coach knew, Paul Dee, is that you?

The question is not one of did SC know what was going on with Bush, but rather how did they miss what was going on?

SC can claim that there is no way that USC would have any idea what was going on with the Bush's, but that is a homer talking. As far back as 1994 I had to let RICE know when my parents moved or I had access to drive a different car. Both came into play while I was a player. First my mom bought a new SUV and gave me her old suburban. One of the football coaches saw me driving it and next thing you know the compliance lady is waiting for me before practice on day. I had to fill out forms, etc and they asked for title info etc.

Second example is my mom sold my childhood house three years after my dad died, and purchased a new smaller one. In doing some her address changed with the athletic department. They made sure the new place fit with the old place in terms of size, neighborhood, value etc.

So if RICE was doing these things almost 20 years ago USC damn well should have been doing them 6 years ago. SC should have known that the Bush family suddenly had all kinds of new disposable income and investigated that further.
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Re: this guy gets it

Post by indyfrisco »

Lefty, why'd you have to slap that tard down so hard? He doesn't listen to facts. TinFoilVanTroll relies on sticking his fingers in his ears and yelling NA-NA-NA-NA-NA!!!
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Re: this guy gets it

Post by Killian »

SoCalTrjn wrote:
M Club wrote:
L45B wrote:
It's amazing to me how the ESPN machine of shitty reporting trickles down to the masses so efficiently. Ohio State didn't provide sex or money to its recruits. The players were selling their own memorabilia for tattoos. How treacherous!
Or how the stupid trickles up through your water supply. SC was busted because an assistant coach knew about Reggie's own cash-for-being-awesome scheme; OSU's head coach knew as much about five times as many players and covered it up. Not sure how the "we couldn't have known what the man we paid $5 million a year to safeguard our cash cow was up to" defense really flies, ESPN or not.

A photo shopped picture and a 150 second phone call at 2 am after Reggie played his final game at USC means that McNair knew? Forget the fact that Lake told the NCAA that there was no way anyone at USC could have known what was going on, you are now saying that a coach knew, Paul Dee, is that you?
You're a fucking truther, aren't you?
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Re: this guy gets it

Post by MiketheangrydrunkenCUfan »

Left Seater wrote:
SoCalTrjn wrote:
A photo shopped picture and a 150 second phone call at 2 am after Reggie played his final game at USC means that McNair knew? Forget the fact that Lake told the NCAA that there was no way anyone at USC could have known what was going on, you are now saying that a coach knew, Paul Dee, is that you?

The question is not one of did SC know what was going on with Bush, but rather how did they miss what was going on?

SC can claim that there is no way that USC would have any idea what was going on with the Bush's, but that is a homer talking. As far back as 1994 I had to let RICE know when my parents moved or I had access to drive a different car. Both came into play while I was a player. First my mom bought a new SUV and gave me her old suburban. One of the football coaches saw me driving it and next thing you know the compliance lady is waiting for me before practice on day. I had to fill out forms, etc and they asked for title info etc.

Second example is my mom sold my childhood house three years after my dad died, and purchased a new smaller one. In doing some her address changed with the athletic department. They made sure the new place fit with the old place in terms of size, neighborhood, value etc.

So if RICE was doing these things almost 20 years ago USC damn well should have been doing them 6 years ago. SC should have known that the Bush family suddenly had all kinds of new disposable income and investigated that further.
Bingo. Unless you're a delusional troll, it's not a question of is USC guilty or not. Even the article toejam posted admits that they are. It's a question of whether the punishment fits the crime. We'll know the answer to that once the NCAA hands down their decisions on OSU, Miami and Auburn...
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Re: this guy gets it

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Left Seater wrote:
SoCalTrjn wrote:
A photo shopped picture and a 150 second phone call at 2 am after Reggie played his final game at USC means that McNair knew? Forget the fact that Lake told the NCAA that there was no way anyone at USC could have known what was going on, you are now saying that a coach knew, Paul Dee, is that you?

The question is not one of did SC know what was going on with Bush, but rather how did they miss what was going on?

SC can claim that there is no way that USC would have any idea what was going on with the Bush's, but that is a homer talking. As far back as 1994 I had to let RICE know when my parents moved or I had access to drive a different car. Both came into play while I was a player. First my mom bought a new SUV and gave me her old suburban. One of the football coaches saw me driving it and next thing you know the compliance lady is waiting for me before practice on day. I had to fill out forms, etc and they asked for title info etc.

Second example is my mom sold my childhood house three years after my dad died, and purchased a new smaller one. In doing some her address changed with the athletic department. They made sure the new place fit with the old place in terms of size, neighborhood, value etc.

So if RICE was doing these things almost 20 years ago USC damn well should have been doing them 6 years ago. SC should have known that the Bush family suddenly had all kinds of new disposable income and investigated that further.
The house the Griffens moved in to was in the same zip code and town as their old home, how is USC going to equate moving from one rental in Grass Valley to another rental in Grass Valley or that Reggie traded in a truck for Chevy Sedan 2 years older than the truck, a sedan that was so crap that everyone on the team made fun of it meant that the family had all kinds of new disposable income?
Unless you are saying that USC did not require Reggie to fill out the paperwork, but according to the NCAA, Reggie did fill out the papers with the compliance department. The fact is that Reggie didn't list where the car was purchased on the paperwork he filed on the car and the compliance department called him in and asked him to fill that line in, so they had checked on it, it just wasn't a car that raised any suspicion, as was the home they were renting.
Im not saying that USC is not guilty because they had a player that cheated behind the schools back. I'm saying that the schools punishment did not fit what the school did, especially when you have other schools who are knowingly playing players that are taking benefits, renting cars for underaged players who have suspended licenses, paying for recruits, allowing boosters to pay players and recruits, hiring agents on the coaching staff and having someone else do a players school work.
USC deserved to be punished, they deserved to forfeit the games in the 2005 season since Reggie started taking benefits in April of 2005, they deserved a 1 year probation and they deserved a loss of 2 or 3 scholarships. the 2 year bowl ban, loss of 30 scholarships, 3 year probation and free agency of all of their upperclassmen for 1 player doing things behind the schools back was way too much and that other schools that have done worse and are not getting close to the same punishment is proof that Dee and company had an agenda and not justice on their mind.
Last edited by SoCalTrjn on Tue Aug 30, 2011 2:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: this guy gets it

Post by Van »

Indy, being that you're an Admin here you have access to our IP addresses, so you know full well that SoCalTrjn is not me. You also know that I have never used any nic but Van or Van (Down By The River) in my entire time on this board. In the case of that second nic, I only used it for a very brief time upon discovering that some asshat had decided to swipe my nic as a joke when one of these boards first started up, and even then I made it quite clear that I was Van(DBTR).

The bottom line is I have never used a troll, and I'm talking literally...as in no exceptions.

Knowing this, why do you persist in perpetuating this bullshit that Shmick is my troll? Of all people, I would think an Admin would be ought to be above such nonsense.
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Re: this guy gets it

Post by M Club »

Van wrote:Indy, being that you're an Admin here you have access to our IP addresses, so you know full well that SoCalTrjn is not me.
you assume he'd take the time to look ip's up. any other issues you're particularly overly-sensitive about?
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Re: this guy gets it

Post by War Wagon »

Hello Van

No hard feelings, I hope. That's probably asking too much, but I do apologize (again) for betraying your confidence.

As for Indy, I believe the boy is a card or two shy of a full deck. He reminds me of Radiofan to some extent.
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Re: this guy gets it

Post by War Wagon »

M Club wrote:
Van wrote:Indy, being that you're an Admin here you have access to our IP addresses, so you know full well that SoCalTrjn is not me.
you assume he'd take the time to look ip's up. any other issues you're particularly overly-sensitive about?
mclubbed, Indy has dropped notes in chat radio that Van is trolling as Martyred or vice versa. I believe that was a flat out lie designed to engender board drama. Hell yes he's checking ip's you naive simpleton.

I know you have issues with Van but I suggest you look elsewhere for smack fodder.
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Re: this guy gets it

Post by Van »

M Club, I'm assuming an Admin would be above perpetuating that which he knows to be a lie. Without even checking IP addresses Indy knows to a certainty that I am no more Shmick than Indy is highly self-effacing and an astute arbiter of quality music. I'm also assuming he's at least semi-literate enough to be able to discern at a mere glance the obvious difference between every Shmick post and any post of mine.

Put it this way: If I were ever to create a troll, I'd at least want the fucker to do a decent job of representing. While Shmick's incessant diatribes about USC being treated unfairly by the NCAA are essentially unassailable, his penchant for killing the message by being such a piss-poor messenger would never be my chosen way of going about things.
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Re: this guy gets it

Post by M Club »

War Wagon wrote:
mclubbed, Indy has dropped notes in chat radio that Van is trolling as Martyred or vice versa. I believe that was a flat out lie designed to engender board drama. Hell yes he's checking ip's you naive simpleton.

I know you have issues with Van but I suggest you look elsewhere for smack fodder.
i don't have any issues with anyone on here. you know, that whole "it's just a message board" attitude but actually treating it like it's a just message board?
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Re: this guy gets it

Post by War Wagon »

it is a "just" message board that you now have 5 years and 3,000 posts on to date.

I love the "it's just a message board" speil... go post in some random Yahoo chat room then but you won't because here, everybody knows your name.
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Re: this guy gets it

Post by M Club »

i forgot, you didn't go to college. i'll explain using bullet points:

*it's a message board, so yes, i post messages on it. (i don't even mind if you add in my time and posts from previous incarnations of this community.)

*i involve myself in more than the occasional flame war since calling people assholes online helps pass the downtime at work.

*but since it's "just" a message board, i don't involve myself with your chat drama. i deal with enough from people i know by actual names.

*ergo, i don't have lingering issues with van - or anyone else - other than finding 17 paragraphs describing usc's school colors a bit tedious.
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Re: this guy gets it

Post by MiketheangrydrunkenCUfan »

Not taking sides, but why would anyone create a troll that represents their own fan base so poorly? If Van was gonna make a troll, wouldn't it make more sense for it to be a delusional UCLA or Notre Dame fan?
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Re: this guy gets it

Post by Goober McTuber »

I think if Van were to create a troll, it would be an exceedingly verbose black woman from New Mexico, or someplace like that.
Joe in PB wrote: Yeah I'm the dumbass
schmick, speaking about Larry Nassar's pubescent and prepubescent victims wrote: They couldn't even kick that doctors ass

Seems they rather just lay there, get fucked and play victim
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Re: this guy gets it

Post by indyfrisco »

Van,

I call schmick SoCalVanTroll every time he spews the same crap you did/do about USC. Your delivery is different, but the message is always the same. And just like you, every time it is brought up, he regurgitates his last post on the subject.

Whenever Screwball calls Goober McTuber by the name of Gobbles42, he isn't claiming that he is, in fact, Bobby42. He is inferring that he simply posted in a style similar to that of Bobby42 (News link, quote the article, no substance or take on the link).

Not sure why you get so defensive. Because my board name is in red, does it mean I can't toss out the occasional smack?

And by the way, I don't look up IPs all the time. I put little to no faith in them when it is easy to get around IPs.

Don't be so sensitive, Nancy (Not saying you are Nancy's troll, btw.)
Goober McTuber wrote:One last post...
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Re: this guy gets it

Post by Van »

Either that, or you're just an asshole who is simply incapable of admitting to the ugly shit you constantly do around here. Along the way, and lacking any sort of credible explanation, you fall back on utterly obtuse excuses that have no basis whatsoever in reality.

It's one or the other. Your history says it's the latter.

Damn, I'm glad you root for ATM and not a program that has ever mattered. Just imagine what an offensive boor you'd be if ATM was known for anything beyond colorful placards and pretty bonfires.
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Re: this guy gets it

Post by indyfrisco »

^^^ Fail ^^^

Just like your dead wife fiction.
Goober McTuber wrote:One last post...
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Re: this guy gets it

Post by Goober McTuber »

That's a bit much. If it were me, I'd delete that.
Joe in PB wrote: Yeah I'm the dumbass
schmick, speaking about Larry Nassar's pubescent and prepubescent victims wrote: They couldn't even kick that doctors ass

Seems they rather just lay there, get fucked and play victim
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Re: this guy gets it

Post by indyfrisco »

The board's getting meaner. I have to comply.

By the way, I've seen it all when Goobs says someone is being too much of an asshole. Next thing you know, Dins will chime in on how good Bud Light Lime is.
Goober McTuber wrote:One last post...
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Re: this guy gets it

Post by Goober McTuber »

IndyFrisco wrote:The board's getting meaner. I have to comply.

By the way, I've seen it all when Goobs says someone is being too much of an asshole. Next thing you know, Dins will chime in on how good Bud Light Lime is.
Yeah, I know I might be capable of assholishness at times. This just seems a bit much to me. Just my opinion. I don’t recall using the death of any other poster’s loved one as smack fodder.

Now calling for another poster to kill themselves is certainly acceptable. Free choice and whatnot.
Joe in PB wrote: Yeah I'm the dumbass
schmick, speaking about Larry Nassar's pubescent and prepubescent victims wrote: They couldn't even kick that doctors ass

Seems they rather just lay there, get fucked and play victim
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Re: this guy gets it

Post by indyfrisco »

Goober McTuber wrote:
IndyFrisco wrote:The board's getting meaner. I have to comply.

By the way, I've seen it all when Goobs says someone is being too much of an asshole. Next thing you know, Dins will chime in on how good Bud Light Lime is.
Yeah, I know I might be capable of assholishness at times. This just seems a bit much to me. Just my opinion. I don’t recall using the death of any other poster’s loved one as smack fodder.

Now calling for another poster to kill themselves is certainly acceptable. Free choice and whatnot.
I based my take on rumor.

Rumor has it, Diego/Toddowen fondles children and smack of the sort is acceptable.

Rumor has it, Screwball mops jizz and smack of the sort is acceptable.

Rumor has it, Scotty lifts and steams with the best of them and smack of the sort is acceptable.

Rumor has it, trev drinks a fifth of vodka before lunch and smack of the sort is acceptable.

Rumor has it, Van is a shut-in with literary talent and smack of the sort is acceptable.

I could go on...but I won't.
Goober McTuber wrote:One last post...
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Re: this guy gets it

Post by Goober McTuber »

IndyFrisco wrote:
Goober McTuber wrote:
IndyFrisco wrote:The board's getting meaner. I have to comply.

By the way, I've seen it all when Goobs says someone is being too much of an asshole. Next thing you know, Dins will chime in on how good Bud Light Lime is.
Yeah, I know I might be capable of assholishness at times. This just seems a bit much to me. Just my opinion. I don’t recall using the death of any other poster’s loved one as smack fodder.

Now calling for another poster to kill themselves is certainly acceptable. Free choice and whatnot.
I based my take on rumor.

Rumor has it, Diego/Toddowen fondles children and smack of the sort is acceptable.

Rumor has it, Screwball mops jizz and smack of the sort is acceptable.

Rumor has it, Scotty lifts and steams with the best of them and smack of the sort is acceptable.

Rumor has it, trev drinks a fifth of vodka before lunch and smack of the sort is acceptable.

Rumor has it, Van is a shut-in with literary talent and smack of the sort is acceptable.

I could go on...but I won't.
Well, except for the fact that Van himself told us about the loss of his wife, and I never for a minute doubted that it was the truth. None of the others you mentioned have ever taken ownership of their vile habits and avocations.
Joe in PB wrote: Yeah I'm the dumbass
schmick, speaking about Larry Nassar's pubescent and prepubescent victims wrote: They couldn't even kick that doctors ass

Seems they rather just lay there, get fucked and play victim
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Re: this guy gets it

Post by indyfrisco »

So I'm deplorable. I can get over that. You?

Oh, and je...errr...jon hasn't taken ownership of being an ISU grad, but THE TRUTH says he is and smack of the sort is acceptable.

Next?
Goober McTuber wrote:One last post...
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Re: this guy gets it

Post by Goober McTuber »

IndyFrisco wrote:So I'm deplorable. I can get over that.
Almost sig-worthy. BTW, you never changed the tag under my username. I’m tired of Noob’s old lady.
Joe in PB wrote: Yeah I'm the dumbass
schmick, speaking about Larry Nassar's pubescent and prepubescent victims wrote: They couldn't even kick that doctors ass

Seems they rather just lay there, get fucked and play victim
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Re: this guy gets it

Post by MgoBlue-LightSpecial »

Who the fuck is Noob? And what do you want your title to be, you ASS?
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