Golf Question

[Dr_Phibes]

Right, I've never played golf till this past weekend - never held a club. I'm fairly good at the Lee Trevino video game, so I do have some background. Stupid question, but not knowing much about golf I thought I'd ask here.

How many holes do you play in a day if you're recreational? 18 or 9? 18 seems a bit much, myself and a few people I talked to all seemed to fade after about the 12th to14th hole. If you're a pro, surely you want to save yourself for the next day.
It's like snooker or darts, after you get a few drinks in and tire, you're just bouncing balls around and have to know when to quit. I was in the hands of a golf Nazi who simply said - 'Shut up, you get used to it'. Is this normal?

Does any regular player here do 18 holes a day? I'd like and have the opportunity to play again, it's great fun - but only if broken up over two days.

Cheers!

[BSmack]

I used to play 5 days a week to the tune of 72 or more holes a week. The biggest problem I had was workdays taking away from my golf. I solved that by joining a local muni and playing 9 in the morning and 9 after work. Of course on weekends I'd play 18 with a lunch at the turn. Nowadays I hardly ever get out and would be gassed after 12. Of course I walk when I play. You cart guys may have a different perspective.

Now your average touring professional would have absolutely no problem playing 36 holes a day.

My advice to you is to stick to playing 9 until you can break 45. And if you can, ditch the cart and play like a man.

[indyfrisco]

I grew up on the Gulf Coast of Texas near Galveston. Pretty damn nasty weather. Mom dropped me off at the Club at 6 AM before she went to work and picked me up at 6 PM after work. I walked 3 rounds a day carrying my bag, 54 holes a day in the summer and I played 18 a day walking by myself or with friends and I would play 18 with my dad riding a cart. Oh how great was it to be a kid. I did that from about age 10-16. Slacked off a bit more as I got older taking on jobs and chicks, but I still played a lot walking.

If I tried that now, I would die.

I now playtwice a week. I usually play 18 holes with my regular group of 12-18 guys. We make differnet teams drawn from a hat each day we play. After 18, we have a little "after scramble" for bigger money, and we play 5 holes usually. We'd play more, but most of us got wife/kid commitments and we slate for 5.5 hours of golf. We do ride carts though.

I walk about 15 - 20 rounds a year during the colder months. Our course is always open if it is 40 degrees or more, but in the December-February months, there are no carts, but you get some days you can play so we go walk it. I must admit, the walking of this course can take a lot out of you. Lots of hills carrying a bag. I have a pull cart gathering dust and cobwebs in the attic my brother gave to me as a b-day present, but you look like a faggot pulling a cart so I carry.

[Dinsdale]

I look like a macho babe-magnet dragging my pull cart around, thank you very much.

I'll walk (walk/pull) all day long. How many holes you wanna play? I'm game.

Although if it's really really hot out, 18 is usually plenty.

And I haven't sat my ass in a cart for many years... just not the same for me.

But I can understand Phibes -- it can be pretty frustrating when you're trying to learn, and neither the ball or your body is doing what you tell it. When your ballstriking gets better and you start hitting good shots right where you aimed them, all of a sudden patience and focus are much easier to come by...

Or so I hear, since I can't hit the broad side of a barn lately.

My best advice at this point in your "career" -- Hook up with one or more of your experienced buddies, and some evening, go to your local muni, and practice chipping and putting. Make a game out of it -- we used to play for $0.10-.25 skins. Winner of the skin gets to make up the next hoole -- we usually drop one from somewhere just off the practice green, then maybe have to go around one of the holes, then put it in another... shit like that. Of course, our rule was always that whoever won enough skins money to buy a round, must immediately do so.

But it puts some competitiveness and enthusiasm into practicing. And working on short chips and putts is by far the best way to improve.

Come to think of it, I haven't played that game with my buds in a long time. Maybe because my one friend isn't a member at the club that has a practice green right outside his driveway.

[indyfrisco]

And working on short chips and putts is by far the best way to improve.

I agree. Unfortunately for the other golfers on the green, when I got the coons going, their ankles are prime targets for a knockin'.

[Dr_Phibes]

Thanks gents, that's all really helpful.

Yeah I was on a cart, but only because the golfers I was with thought that two rookies would slow them down. It's a novelty seeing what kind of angle you can put them on before they tip over - but that gets old quick. And it's not walking that would be a bother or tiresome, I'm quite fit - but Dins just nailed it, it's a different kind of work.

The movements just don't seem natural, the level of concentration is tough to keep up. You stop for a second and your driver is buried and your wrists and elbows are rattling. You put pressure on yourself because everyone else is good and it does get frustrating. And I did notice you get energy when you do well, I dropped a ball four feet from the pin on a par 3 and just charged into it - then it turned into +2.

Anyway, it's still a great day out so I'll keep slogging away at it. Thanks again, much appreciated!

[indyfrisco]

Phibes,

I know what you mean by nerves taking over when playing with better players. I'm a consistent 80-85 player with the occasional round in the 70s and occasionally I'll have a shit day and get to the 90s. I used to play with guys where I was basically the best golfer. I never felt the pressure of "keeping up" with them.

Every now and again, this one group would invite me to play in their Saturday game. These guys are all single digit handicap that shoot low/mid 70s all the time. Seemed every time I played with them, I could not break 90. I would get frustrated, embarrassed, and I would try to make shots I had no business taking trying to recover burying myself deeper.

I got to the point where I turned down their offers to play because I was afraid to go out and shit my pants like I had done so many times. Something happened last year though. I got into a regular mix/group of good golfers. 24 people with handicaps ranging from 0 to 20 with the average handicap about 7. So, a lot of decent golfers and a few stinkers. Random matchups each time out twice a week. I got the opportunity to play with the better golfers while having a shitty one in the group. For some reason, I didn't feel the pressure. Now, I regularly play with the low handicappers and keep up without getting nervous that I was holding them up and looking like a jackass. Just took time. I even beat at least some of them each time out.

Stick to it. It's the greatest pastime in my opinion once you get a little older. I've quit soccer and even softball due to back problems so I can not only enjoy my kids' sports and coach them and be active with them, I quit because I want to be able to play golf for many more years.

[Dinsdale]

I'm quite fit - but Dins just nailed it, it's a different kind of work.

Actually, I think walking helps. I'm a fiercely competitive guy, but in golf, you don't compete with anyone else, you compete with the course -- it giveth, and it taketh away. But mostly, you compete with yourself. Tiger Woods, Phil, Jack, and Bobby Jones all duffed up a swing every now and then. It's how you refocus that dictates all...


Which is what makes golf such a nifty little microcosm of life in general.

But I feel like when I'm walking, that couplefew minutes gives me the time to fume about what an inept DB I am (or on a rare occasion, what a sweet sweet shot I hit, that even the aforementioned legends would be jealous of). The walk is generally the approximate time it takes to clear your head of what happened before (which you cannot change, and there's no "making up for"), and get your head into the task at hand -- flushing the next one clean on the line and trajectory you pictured.

Golf isn't a sequence of shots -- there is only one shot, the next one... you just have to repeat this process 72 82 92 102 143... "I forgot to write it down" number of times.

The movements just don't seem natural

Oh, you couldn't be more wrong, my new golfing comrade.

It is YOU who is unnatural.

That shaft should stay in an absolute perfect plane at all times... what could be more natural than that?

Yet another subtle life-lesson golf teaches us... your vision of "perfection" and "natural" is usually wrong... as is your high-handicapped swing (sup Dins).

the level of concentration is tough to keep up.

[/life-lesson-broken-record]

Things that require our full concentration/focus don't always start and end at the exact moment we'd like them too, do they?

You stop for a second and your driver is buried and your wrists and elbows are rattling.

Consequences for doing something half-assed?

You put pressure on yourself because everyone else is good and it does get frustrating.

Ohhhhhhh yeahhhhhh it does.

Einstein didn't like getting B's on exams, either.

And I did notice you get energy when you do well, I dropped a ball four feet from the pin on a par 3 and just charged into it - then it turned into +2.

There's a life-lesson in there that involves "highest of highs, lowest of lows," but I'm not sure what it is, so I'll almost-shut-up.

Anyway, it's still a great day out so I'll keep slogging away at it.

Most important life-lesson of the bunch...


Have a great time, bro, and welcome to the land of obsession.

Apart from the finacial burden, the damage it causes to interpersonal relationships (especially the female kind), the frustration, and the wear and tear on certain body parts, discovering golf is the greatest thing that can happen to a person.


Enjoy.

[indyfrisco]

But I feel like when I'm walking, that couplefew minutes gives me the time to fume about what an inept DB I am (or on a rare occasion, what a sweet sweet shot I hit, that even the aforementioned legends would be jealous of). The walk is generally the approximate time it takes to clear your head of what happened before (which you cannot change, and there's no "making up for"), and get your head into the task at hand -- flushing the next one clean on the line and trajectory you pictured.

Back when I was a really good golfer, I found this to be so very true. When I rode in the cart, I was never as focused. Now, I just am not as competitive. It's more about fun, hanging out with the guys, partaking in some adult beverages, etc. In our game, no one ever gets away without losing at least $25 and some can lose up to $75 a round. All money lost goes into the pot. The pot, also referred to as the kitty, pays for all alcohol, food during and after the round and the house gets a big tip for putting up with our shit until 11 PM. We regularly have a $400 food and bar bill.

So, for us, it is about quantity of holes we can squeeze in because every hole we can get in before dark is another skin. Carts help with this. Also, at our club, there are no tee times and you can jump around the course. So when you got 12-16 guys playing a scramble on the same hole and you want to go from #3 to #7 because we're skipping around, the carts really come in handy then.

[Mace]

You posed some good questions, Phibes. With my high school baseball season now over, I decided to start golfing again. I went out with my son a couple of times last week and found that shaking off 7-8 years of rust is not easy at my age. It takes a few rounds to get the golf muscles back in shape and, in the interim, my scores and back will suffer. I played 9 holes in each of my first two outings, with my son beating me for the first time in his life on the first 9 and out driving me off the tee too. Frustrating? Damn right. I've lost 50+ yards off the tee and my son was longer with his 4 wood than me with my driver. Frustrating? More like depressing. I was lucky to hit 220 yds with my driver.....as opposed to the old days when I would routinely drive the ball 275-300 yds. The good thing about being shorter off the tee is that it's easier to find the fairway, even if it's a blow to my ego to be the short hitter in the group. I played 18 holes yesterday with a group of guys closer to my age, and guys I used to play with years ago, and saw that all of them had gotten shorter off the tee too. That helped a little but it's hard to come to the realization that your best golf is behind you. I will never be a 1 handicapper again and will slip off into irrelevance when it comes time for the city golf tournament, where I've been a past champion and regular top 3 finisher. Never again. Ancient history. Welcome to the third or fourth flight.

Anyway, after 4 rounds of golf, I'm beginning to make the adjustments of hitting longer irons into the greens and realizing that what used to be an 8 iron shot has now become a 6 iron, finding the par 4 greens in 3 shots rather than regulation, and that eagles are a thing of the past. The good thing is that my short game has returned rather quickly. My wedges and short irons were still crisp and accurate, and my putting was far better than expected. Dins is correct in saying that the short game will improve your game the quickest. Chipping and pitching close will reduce the number of putts, especially if you practice draining putts from 10 feet and closer.

Good luck with your game and, most importantly, enjoy your time on the course and the company of good friends.

[indyfrisco]

what used to be an 8 iron shot has now become a 6 iron, finding the par 4 greens in 3 shots rather than regulation, and that eagles are a thing of the past.

Nothing wrong with that.

-Ken

[Dinsdale]

Wait... you guys sometimes come into 4's with an iron?

That's some bigtime distance.


Sin,
Ken

[Felix]

the level of concentration is tough to keep up.

[/life-lesson-broken-record]

Things that require our full concentration/focus don't always start and end at the exact moment we'd like them too, do they?

I've seen great rounds (my own and other players included) evaporate on the last few holes due to a decreased level of concentration brought about by fatigue...it's something I've been working on for about the last few years, because in the last round of a 3-day medal play tournament about 6 years ago, I went from 1 under to 8 over in the last four holes...bogey, double, double, and a dreaded "other" on the last hole....shot myself right out of the money and realized it was because I let my mind start wandering instead of focusing my full concentration on the shot at hand

oh, and 18 holes a day shouldn't be a problem for anyone under the age of 90...if you're not on the green by the time you've doubled par on a hole (e.g. hitting your 9th shot from the fairway on a par 4) pick it up (unless you're involved in some kind of wagering)....that's what I call the point of diminishing return....

The good thing about being shorter off the tee is that it's easier to find the fairway, even if it's a blow to my ego to be the short hitter in the group.

Corey Pavin has made a pretty decent living being one of the shortest drivers on the PGA tour.....granted, he's a great long iron player, but he proves that distance isn't the end all

sincerely,
the 40-yards fo driving distance I've lost over the last 10 years

[Dr_Phibes]

I've seen great rounds (my own and other players included) evaporate on the last few holes due to a decreased level of concentration brought about by fatigue

Well that's pretty much the reason I was thinking golf is like snooker - if you're out for a night playing, you reach some point where your concentration just goes and odds are you're not going to get it back, so just pack it in. You're not just wasting your own time but everyone else's.
The difference is, you're making bogey and I'm in danger of cracking myself in chin with my own ball.

Genius thread, I'm thinking that people would pay to get this sort of advice, given the dopey questions I posted. It goes without saying that I hope to have a flair for this game and won't spend five years finding out that I've gone from playing like shit to 'playing a little less like shit'.

[BSmack]

It goes without saying that I hope to have a flair for this game and won't spend five years finding out that I've gone from playing like shit to 'playing a little less like shit'.

Nobody "has a flair" for the game. It takes years of practice before even the most talented players break par on a regular basis. We play the game because of that one great shot that even a pro might envy. That's what keep you coming back.

[Dinsdale]

On our saturday morning golf show on one of our sports radio stations (yup, the #22 media market supports 2 24 hours sports radio stations... envy us), the host quoted someone... forget who, who said "after starting, you have to hit between 3000-4000 balls before you even comprehend how the swing is supposed to work."

[Mace]

As for the issue of "concentration", you have to be able to turn it on and turn it off if you expect to stay focused for 18 holes. I've found that to be true in baseball as well and make it a point of emphasis for my players. No one can stay focused for 2-3 hours straight, so you have to develope a routine and a certain point prior to the shot to turn on the concentration. Relax between shots and then turn on your focus at some point during your pre-shot routine. In baseball, I teach players on defense to begin their focus with their pre-pitch movement, and the hitters to focus on a small scratch/letter on the bat before entering the batter's box. In golf, I begin my focus/concentration when I'm picking out my target area in the pre-shot routine. In golf, like baseball, the mental side of the game is more important than the mechanics of your swing. Yogi's quote of "90% of the game is mental and the other half is physical" is also true in golf.

[Dr_Phibes]

Just sort of a follow up thanks for the tips posted here, they were really helpful - particularly your last post, Mace. I'm still shit, but am starting to gain strength and focus from the 12th hole onward. Eighteen holes every day for three days straight was easy as pie, barring alcohol poisoning.
I got invited by a workmate to go down to Saratoga N.Y. for four days with a group of real hardcores, ranging in age from 40 - 70. They're all other ex-pats and do big trips back to the UK for the really big courses, then the US aswell. Once they got over the initial shock that someone at my 'skill' level had infiltrated the group, they were really brilliant - I tapped into a real wealth of knowledge, great opportunity.

What was nice is seeing the way different groups operate when you're paired up with them, with some it was great - just shit talk and jokes the whole way through. Then others are very workmanlike, no real talking or anything, just rip through the course like a machine.

So just a quick thanks again!

(BTW Bsmack I gave the Ra-cha-cha turnoff on the I-90 two fingers, hope you felt the love )

[Dinsdale]

I tapped into a real wealth of knowledge, great opportunity.

Playing with skilled diehards will be very helpful to you, for sure.

Next bit of advice -- one step at a time. While your friends will have a cornucopia of good advice, try to take it in one thing at a time. If you get a good tip on swing-thoughts, or basic mechanics -- make it your sole focus for 9 holes. Then add tthe next step. It's such a complicated game, it's easy to get buried in too many things at once. Just focus on one thing at a time.

[BSmack]

I tapped into a real wealth of knowledge, great opportunity.

Playing with skilled diehards will be very helpful to you, for sure.

Next bit of advice -- one step at a time. While your friends will have a cornucopia of good advice, try to take it in one thing at a time. If you get a good tip on swing-thoughts, or basic mechanics -- make it your sole focus for 9 holes. Then add tthe next step. It's such a complicated game, it's easy to get buried in too many things at once. Just focus on one thing at a time.

I would add to that the corollary that when practicing at the range, spend 80% or more of your time hitting shots of under 100 yards. Get used to aiming for and hitting a target at close range. Then, as you get better, start devoting more time to hitting longer shots. But for the first couple of years, hit as many short shots as you can possibly stomach.

[Dr_Phibes]

I tapped into a real wealth of knowledge, great opportunity.

Playing with skilled diehards will be very helpful to you, for sure.

Next bit of advice -- one step at a time. While your friends will have a cornucopia of good advice, try to take it in one thing at a time. If you get a good tip on swing-thoughts, or basic mechanics -- make it your sole focus for 9 holes. Then add tthe next step. It's such a complicated game, it's easy to get buried in too many things at once. Just focus on one thing at a time.

No kidding, that actually became a problem. I mean, they were being too nice and there was too much information. Just trying to focus on lining up your body with the hole, keeping your eye on the ball and staying loose and not tensing up while shooting seems like more than enough to keep me busy for a year.
The best was 'Right, nice shot. But next time, your body isn't supposed to leave the ground when hitting the ball'.

Think I'm starting to get a sense of what's involved here

[Felix]

I mean, they were being too nice and there was too much information.

When I play, I pick a single swing thought for the day...it may be keeping my head still, it may be emphasizing the shoulder turn, it may be swinging on a level plane....whatever the thought is, that's what it stays for the entire round....if you start thinking about all the things that compromise a golf shot, you could never pull the club back....think one thing and concentrate on that single thing....the rest will take care of itself

Think I'm starting to get a sense of what's involved here

people that don't play think it's a pussy sport, no athleticism involved....after you've played it for a while, you develop an appreciation of just how difficult the game is...it is by far the most mentally draining athletic endeavor I've ever undertaken

[The Seer]

Another secret of success is the mental discipline of being able to take your range game onto the golf course...something about when it counts can cause you to lose that nice rhythm... :?