I wonder if god...

huh? · Post by **huh?** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 5:00 am

...killed those four boyscouts in Iowa because the BSA discriminates against gays. Seems about as reasonable as New Orleans getting wiped out because of their immoral whatchacallits.

Thoughts?

Felix · Post by **Felix** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 3:50 pm

huh? wrote:...killed those four boyscouts in Iowa because the BSA discriminates against gays.

negatory...god clearly hates gays as evidenced in the bible

he was probably just testing their "weather" merit badge credentials

they failed

huh? · Post by **huh?** » Sun Jun 15, 2008 4:41 am

Bible = Evidence

I'm not buying it. Dig a little deeper.

Felix · Post by **Felix** » Sun Jun 15, 2008 4:53 am

huh? wrote:Bible = Evidence

I'm not buying it. Dig a little deeper.

well it's clear from biblical accounts that in order to suffer the ultimate penalty at the hands of god, you must commit a truly egregious offense

building a golden idol or taking his name in vain would fit the bill

I have to assume they simply left god no alternative but to destroy them

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Sun Jun 15, 2008 10:08 am

Felix wrote:well it's clear from biblical accounts that in order to suffer the ultimate penalty at the hands of god, you must commit a truly egregious offense

The common perception people have of 'sin' is generally a bit cloudy.
The thinking is most often, "He did wrong, he sinned, he's bad, and God is/will judge him."

This misses it by a bit.

If you look at the Bible, in Romans 5:12 you see this:

Wherefore, as by one man (Adam) sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned

How did it come to be that all have sinned?

The answer is that people sin because that is what they are ... sinners.
If you are living, you have sinned.

In Ephesians 2:1-3 you see this:

And you (believers) hath he (God) quickened (been made alive), who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

It's a fascinating few verses.
People are yanked around by a 'spirit' who is leading them into destruction.

Revelation 12:9 tells of how there was a war in heaven, and this darkness was cast out of heaven to earth.
This dark spirit is what brought man into a separation from the God who he must live with in order to ... live.
The very separation from God brings man into a condition where, as it says in Eph 2:2,3, he IS yanked around and DOES fulfill the lusts of his flesh (sin).

So the very fact that man is separated from God can be viewed as sin itself.

Felix · Post by **Felix** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 12:31 am

yeah tart, I know you're feelings that the bible is inerrant, it's the word of god, we inherited sin, etc., but this type of mysticism does little to answer huh's question of why god sent a tornado down and killed them kids

maybe they were just in the wrong place at the wrong time

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 1:36 am

Exactly 'why' a tornado came and killed those kids is an open question, Felix.

There were no tornados at the time when God created man and man was living by God's grace, as he was created and intended for.

When man left God's Word he fell into a condition where anguish, disaster and death had no choice but to come.
Genesis 3:16-20.
v. 19: In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

Their number was called.
Yours or mine might be called tomorrow ... or today.

Proverbs 27:1 Boast not thyself of to morrow; for thou knowest not what a day may bring forth.

There may be no tomorrow.

Hebrews 9:27: And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment

One life, do it right and be ready.

Felix · Post by **Felix** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 2:30 am

poptart wrote:Exactly 'why' a tornado came and killed those kids is an open question, Felix.

there's nothing "open" about it..if "he" controls everything like you assert, then he created that tornado and killed those boy scouts

he probably killed them because he loves them so much

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 2:33 am

Do you not believe in the God of the Bible, or do you believe in Him and not like His operation?

Felix · Post by **Felix** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 3:55 am

poptart wrote:Do you not believe in the God of the Bible

no

Nacho · Post by **Nacho** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 5:35 pm

This must be one of the most stupid threads I've seen in a long time....

Goober McTuber · Post by **Goober McTuber** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:07 pm

Nacho wrote:This must be one of the most stupid threads I've seen in a long time....

Then you should fit right in.

Felix · Post by **Felix** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:23 pm

Nacho wrote:This must be one of the most stupid threads I've seen in a long time....

if you can't see the intrinsic value of this thread then it's simply because you're a faggy butt licker

go in peace and may the flying spaghetti monster be with you

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 10:11 pm

Felix wrote:
poptart wrote:Do you not believe in the God of the Bible
no

Is there a God you do believe in?

If yes, what do you know about him?
How is it that you know what you know about him?

Wondering.

Felix · Post by **Felix** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 11:39 pm

poptart wrote:
Is there a God you do believe in?

nope

Nacho · Post by **Nacho** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 5:36 pm

mvscal wrote:Why does God make priests stick their cocks up little boys' asses? I thought God hates fags?!?

:? :? :?

Why did God make you post that?

Answer that and you will have your answer......

Tom In VA · Post by **Tom In VA** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 5:58 pm

Felix wrote:
poptart wrote:
Is there a God you do believe in?
nope

Then why are you so obsessed with this topic of discussion ?

Felix · Post by **Felix** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 7:24 pm

Tom In VA wrote:
Felix wrote:
poptart wrote:
Is there a God you do believe in?
nope

Then why are you so obsessed with this topic of discussion ?

you don't believe in democrats and that's never stopped you from obsessing about them

why do you care what I talk about?

Tom In VA · Post by **Tom In VA** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 7:38 pm

I "Don't believe in Democrats" ? Okay.

I know Democrats exist, some actually have pretty decent ideas.

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 10:48 pm

poptart wrote:

...in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind...

This is really what makes it all worthwhile.

rozy · Post by **rozy** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 12:03 pm

Tom In VA wrote:some actually have pretty decent ideas.

Link?

:D

So, Felix, why did God allow those putts to go in for Tiger over the weekend? Or do we only call Him out when it's a tragedy? Or do we prefer your form of elementary trolling?

Felix · Post by **Felix** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 4:45 pm

rozy wrote:
So, Felix, why did God allow those putts to go in for Tiger over the weekend?

according to Exodus Chapter 35:2:
"Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death"

clearly it states that working on the Sabbath is punishable by death, so how Tiger and Rocco survived is beyond me....

Or do we prefer your form of elementary trolling?

hey, I just present the facts as stated in the Bible
I can't put my finger on the specific verse, but I'm guessing that mocking the word of the Lord of Hosts is probably worthy of a death sentence.....you'd better mind your P's and Q's mister

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 11:10 pm

Felix, Christ is the Lord of the Sabbath.
You could easily do your own search and see what He had to say about the Sabbath.

Religious observance of the Sabbath is the very thing that the Pharisees did, and it is pointless.

All the law and the prophets are fulfilled in Christ Jesus.

Felix · Post by **Felix** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 11:54 pm

poptart wrote: You could easily do your own search and see what He had to say about the Sabbath.

is Exodus the "word of God" or not?

it clearly states that anybody that works on the Sabbath is subject to the death penalty-or am I reading that wrong?

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 12:21 am

1) yes

2) You're reading it right, but what you're doing is the equivelant of reading something from ch.2 of an 18 chapter book and deciding that you know the conclusion of the book.

The Bible, start to finish, is about God's covenant with man.
At one point in time, that covenant included very strict observance of the Sabbath day.
Once Christ came and fulfilled all, as the entire Old Testament was pointing toward, all the law and prophets are fulfilled in Him.
Christ is the new, final, and eternal covenant God has made with man.

Man, by any action of his own, can't free himself from the bondage satan placed mankind into.
Only the seed of the woman (God's seed, God himself) gits 'er done.

That's why it has to be Christ.

If Buddah was the Christ I would worship him.
But he's not.

Only Jesus is the Christ, the One who delivers man from his fate of heartbreaking destruction.

huh? · Post by **huh?** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 2:32 am

Nacho wrote:This must be one of the most stupid threads I've seen in a long time....

Really? Seriously, one of the stupidest threads you've seen in a long time? I'm sorry I let you down. I mean, I get why you might be mad that I laid this egg and then just let it lie there for a while, but seriously...stupid? I don't get that.

Are you just so philisophically opposed to someone having a religious view that may differ from yours? My initial take was an attempt to point out that some people will twist anything to "prove" their viewpoint. It really wasn't an attempt to slam christianity, honestly. It was more an attempt to point out that extremist from any religion are often such zealots that facts MUST be explained away, or perhaps worse yet that tragedy must be the result of some fatal flaw...the "victims" just rewards.

I honestly have a lot of respect for people of faith, any faith. I often am envious of the fact that they can just "blow off" [really not the term I was looking for] bad shit happening to good people as GOD'S will.

To each their own.

Nacho · Post by **Nacho** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 5:41 pm

"Really?"

Yes

"Seriously, one of the stupidest threads you've seen in a long time?"

Again yes. You do know what that word means?

"I'm sorry I let you down. I mean, I get why you might be mad that I laid this egg and then just let it lie there for a while, but seriously...stupid? I don't get that."
No need for apologies. You didn't let me down. Not that I think you care but just in case I did hurt your sensitivity I needed to say that.

Stupid? It's an ignorant question that you already knew the answer. Maybe your mother told you there were no stupid questions and you took that to heart. As far as I am concerned it is a stupid question and a stupid way to try to make a point since you seem eloquent enough to explain yourself with a second post.

"Are you just so philisophically opposed to someone having a religious view that may differ from yours?"

No. I don't have to explain the meaning of that word to you, do I?

"My initial take was an attempt to point out that some people will twist anything to "prove" their viewpoint. It really wasn't an attempt to slam christianity, honestly. It was more an attempt to point out that extremist from any religion are often such zealots that facts MUST be explained away, or perhaps worse yet that tragedy must be the result of some fatal flaw...the "victims" just rewards."

Sounds like you think it was a bad attempt. I concur. Actually, I think it was a stupid attempt and it reeked of troll bait. Had you just come out and expressed a thought to what you were driving at, it wouldn't have taken so long for you to attempt to understand what it was you were asking in the first place.

To your attempted point. Zealots of all belief systems have thought like that for thousands of years. Though just because they think that way does not mean that everyone under their belief system believes that way. In fact Zealots make up a very small percentage of any faith system. The problem is when people make a blanket statement about a group of people from the behavior of one of these zealots and everyone takes it that they are all the same. It's like making the statement that all Philadelphia Eagle fans throw batteries at Santa's. It's simply not true. Of course if you make that statement it makes you look rather foolish and stupid.

"I honestly have a lot of respect for people of faith, any faith. I often am envious of the fact that they can just "blow off" [really not the term I was looking for] bad shit happening to good people as GOD'S will."

There is this bumper sticker that says "Shit Happens" it was really popular a few years back. It could read "That's Life" I am sure you have seen them. Most people understand their meanings....

If you follow along with what Poptart explains as answers to the questions poised you should see a holistic view of faith from a Christian Perspective.

Felix · Post by **Felix** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 6:47 pm

Nacho wrote: Christian Perspective.

let me ask you a question here hoss (tart, you can chime in too if so inclined)

name me one thing that any religion has produced that has bettered mankind....

and by the way, saying "morality" is null and void....man is naturally moral because it's necessary to the survival of the species

be sure and turn the lights out when you leave

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 7:30 pm

For somebody who supposedly disdains any and all forms of religion, you sure do spend an inordinate amount of time in the theology forum trying to prove that God doesn't exist.

Maybe you need your very own atheists forum to jackoff in, Feelsdix.

Felix · Post by **Felix** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:31 pm

War Wagon wrote:For somebody who supposedly disdains any and all forms of religion, you sure do spend an inordinate amount of time in the theology forum trying to prove that God doesn't exist.

so you'd prefer to suppress any discussion that there in fact may not be a "god"

pretty fundamentalist of you whitey...

do you have anything of substance to add to the discussion or are you just going to continue to demonstrate your profound idiocy

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 9:58 pm

Felix wrote:let me ask you a question here hoss (tart, you can chime in too if so inclined)

name me one thing that any religion has produced that has bettered mankind....

Yes, because we all know that the list is SOOOO very long of all the things that the atheists have done that have bettered mankind.

Btw, Christianity' is only a religon by man's need to classification of things.

Those who gathered in Mark's upper room knew that Jesus is the Christ, and after receiving the promised Holy Spirit, they went out to spread the life that is in Christ to the whole world.
There was nothing religious about that at all.
Only later did 'religious' aspect of what is really a simple FAITH come about.

Felix · Post by **Felix** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 11:36 pm

poptart wrote: Yes, because we all know that the list is SOOOO very long of all the things that the atheists have done that have bettered mankind.

you're not given to this type of ducking, so I'll assume my assertion was correct, religious beliefs have never produced anything to better the human condition

one thing I can tell you with no uncertainty that there has never been a war started in the name of atheism

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Tue Jun 24, 2008 12:27 am

Felix wrote:religious beliefs have never produced anything to better the human condition.

I don't know what more you want Christ to do for human condition, Felix.

Ephesians 2:5,6
even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us (made us alive) together with Christ, Col. 2.13 (by grace ye are saved;
and hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

We were dead, and it is being in this dead condition that inevitably leads to captivity, disaster and abject failure.
God has offered to make us alive.
And to make us citizens of heaven.

The world isn't going to be a nice place.

John 16:33
In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

Christ stands at the door and knocks, as a gentleman.

I'd look at Him and not the believers, perhaps.

The believers, even being perhaps very well intentioned, come out from the conditions brought on by the failure in Genesis 3.

They fugg things up, me included, of course.

Christ has fugged up nothing.

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Tue Jun 24, 2008 12:35 am

Felix wrote: do you have anything of substance to add to the discussion or are you just going to continue to demonstrate your profound idiocy

What substance have you added to the discussion? You continue to try to prove a negative. Why waste your time? If you don't believe in God, then just continue on your merry dumbass way of whistling past the cemetary.

I'm not gonna' try and convince you or anyone else that God exists or that the Bible is his word. What a collosal waste of time. My beliefs are personal, but here's a hint what they contain. There IS a GOD, and I'm not him.

You, however, are hellbent on proving that Christians are fools, as if you take some sorta' perverse pleasure in shitting on other's faith.

Go fuck yourself.

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Tue Jun 24, 2008 12:52 am

Felix wrote: name me one thing that any religion has produced that has bettered mankind....

And just for your edification, that's probably the most ignorant question ever asked.

If you're going to deny all the good that Catholic schools have accomplished in America and around the world, then you really are a clueless fucking moron.

Felix · Post by **Felix** » Tue Jun 24, 2008 12:55 am

poptart wrote:
I don't know what more you want Christ to do for human condition, Felix.

how about providing food for starving children in Africa...why do you suppose God lets them die (out of "his" grace no less) when with a wave of his hand he could provide them with the sustenance they need for life

God has offered to make us alive.

no, god holds us hostage...worship him or face excruciating punishment for the rest of eternity

frankly, this doesn't sound very "loving" to me

Felix · Post by **Felix** » Tue Jun 24, 2008 12:56 am

War Wagon wrote:
Go fuck yourself.

why did you feel the need to even enter this discussion?

War Wagon wrote:
If you're going to deny all the good that Catholic schools have accomplished in America and around the world, then you really are a clueless fucking moron.

seriously whitey, quit while you're behind

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Tue Jun 24, 2008 1:30 am

Felix wrote: why did you feel the need to even enter this discussion?

No need, but yanking your chain amuses me. You want to take 'tarts literal translation of the Bible and try to make him squirm. 'tarts just doing the job he feels he needs to do by spreading the word.

He can't tell you to go fuck yourself and stay true to his message. I can, and will, gleefully

Why'd you feel the need to copy a take from Screwed, possibly the biggest punkazz on the board next to mtool and KN, for your sig? Don't bother answering that, I know the answer.

But do tell, how does propping Catholic schools put me "behind"?

Felix · Post by **Felix** » Tue Jun 24, 2008 1:53 am

War Wagon wrote:
But do tell, how does propping Catholic schools put me "behind"?

the fact you have to ask this question smacks of your lack of intelligence....try rereading what I asked bud

Felix · Post by **Felix** » Tue Jun 24, 2008 1:54 am

p.s. I thought you were leaving