General Wesley Clark, hardly a tree-hugging liberal

[LTS TRN 2]

Wesley Clark appeared on Keith Olbermann's Countdown last night and stated that "the orders came from the very top" to murder Pat Tillman as he was a political symbol and his opposition to the war in Iraq would have rallied the population around supporting immediate withdrawal.

The evidence points directly to it and the motivation is clear - Tillman abandoned a lucrative career in pro-football immediately after 9/11 because he felt a rampaging patriotic urge to defend his country, and became a poster child for the war on terror as a result.

But when he discovered that the invasion of Iraq was based on a mountain of lies and deceit and had nothing to do with defending America, he became infuriated and was ready to return home to become an anti-war hero.

As far back as March 2003, immediately after the invasion, Tillman famously told his comrade Spc. Russell Baer, "You know, this war is so fucking illegal," and urged his entire platoon to vote against Bush in the 2004 election.

Far from the gung-ho gruff stereotype attributed to him, Tillman was actually a fiercely intellectual man with the courage of his convictions firmly in place.

Tillman had even begun to arrange meetings with anti-war icons like Noam Chomsky upon his return to America before his death cut short any aspirations of becoming a focal point for anti-war sentiment.

Interesting how this extremely serious charge should be hushed so completely in the mainstream news.

[Luther]

You are one goofy man. Wakey Wake.

Rip City

[LTS TRN 2]

Are you referring to me, or Wesley Clark? He said it, not me.

[velocet]

Keith Olbermann

I laughed.





velocet

[LTS TRN 2]

well...Olberman's credibility isn't in question. He just listened, like you. Now, Velo, are you prepared to question Wesley Clark's experience, competence, honesty? Stop laughing and step up. If you've got anything.

[Risa]

Wesley Clark appeared on Keith Olbermann's Countdown last night and stated that "the orders came from the very top" to murder Pat Tillman as he was a political symbol and his opposition to the war in Iraq would have rallied the population around supporting immediate withdrawal.

I need a link for that.

[LTS TRN 2]

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/ju ... ndeath.htm

Can you imagine Rummy and Wolfie and the various psychopaths considering Tillman as an anti-war spokesman, with Chomsky at his side!!??

[War Wagon]

Wesley Clark appeared on Keith Olbermann's Countdown last night and stated that "the orders came from the very top" to murder Pat Tillman.

So, Bush had his minions stage an elaborate fire-fight in some god forsaken Afghanistan gully?

Wow! Bet it was tough getting the Taliban to cooperate. Or was it?

I'll need a tinfoil hat to decipher this puzzler, but if Wesley Clarke said it's so on Olbermann, it must be true.

[LTS TRN 2]

No tin hats, W-Wagon. In fact the investigation reveals there was NO enemy fire at all. Nothing. Check it out. And what, are you suggesting that Wesley Clark is somehow a "liberal, drive-by American-hating commie"? He's a highly decorated general, as straight an arrow that ever led the American military.

[Risa]

Wesley Clark appeared on Keith Olbermann's Countdown last night and stated that "the orders came from the very top" to murder Pat Tillman.

So, Bush had his minions stage an elaborate fire-fight in some god forsaken Afghanistan gully?

It's not outside the realm of possibility at all.

We just need confirmation that it actually happened, though.

[Luther]

http://panafricannews.blogspot.com/2007 ... s-pat.html

I guess Wes did say it, but I didn't read the whole article. But it is this common drum that you like to beat. Anything anti-USA, anti-Jew, that you like to post about, all the time. You've already tried a "Tillman was fragged" thread that resides in trots. What is surprising is that you will use any voice that champions what you believe, even a former military General. It is kind of like saying the military is just the enforcement wing of the Bush cabal and then turning around and using a member of it to push your argument.

Seriously, Nick, if I harbored even half the hate you have for our country then I would move. I would sell my house, have my pension check forwarded to whatever country I moved to and I would vamp. By staying here and believing in what you do, the hatred, it is eating you alive from the insides. I believe you to be an intelligent poster, well educated, with an overly bloated fastball, but with a life shortening bitter attitude. You actually could be the next nutjob to hit the news after you armed yourself and went after the white house.

You have authored the same rhetoric even with past nicks; Carol Condit, Nick Frisco, LTS, and even our all time favorite, Fidel "Our God" Castro. If you are trolling then you are a dedicated master at sounding profanely jaded, insane, and unbalanced.

Would I believe that anyone could be "fragged" by a fellow soldier? Absolutely. Would I believe it was ordered from the top? Is the top President Bush, or is it anyone else in the WH that you hate? Or is it Tillman's General? Or is it his platoon's leader? I say it was an accident that was covered up by stupid supervisors. An American hero, going into service and leaving behind a football career...big time news, tabloids, books, movies etc., and he gets killed by one of his men. Would I believe he was murdered? Sure. I just have a problem with some shady covert meeting, involving either politicians, military brass and or whatnot and conspiring to have him killed. I don't know what percentage of all U.S. servicemen fighting in Afghanistan or Iraq that are vocally against the war(s), but I will bet my balls that Tillman wasn't the only one.

Do I know how many people have been fragged by their own people in these two wars? I don't know and I haven't looked, but I do remember that one guy who rolled a grenade into a tent killing "x" number of fellow troops. And I believe he was Islamic too, but if you'd rather prefer him to be Jewish then substitute that in there.

I respect Wes Clark and his dedicated service to our country, but of the last few years he comes off like a bitter prick.

Rip City

[LTS TRN 2]

Wrong, Luth, I love the U.S.A., and I certainly admire Noam Chomsky--and Russ Feingold. So, there goes you're ENTIRE argument, just like that. Why blame me for trying to wake you up?

You didn't read the whole article..., i.e..zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....

Sure, I abhor the utterly criminal contagion currently inflicting horrific war crimes against the people of Iraq--and other nations. So what? I back it up. What have you got? Oh, you think that Clark has become a "bitter prick"?? Are you kidding? THAT'S your basic approach?

Time for your nap, gramps......NOT

[velocet]

well...Olberman's credibility isn't in question. He just listened, like you.

One of the smartest things you've done: something you won't post is a defense of KO('ed). Good move.

Now, Velo, are you prepared to question Wesley Clark's experience, competence, honesty? Stop laughing and step up. If you've got anything.

Nice try. People in "high places", members of the "few" so to speak are and always should be the ones scrutinized the most. Isn't that the theme of your "Wakey Wakey" Campaign? Oh, except when one of the few happens to say something you love to hear.


velocet

[Dog]

I'm not one to jump on conspiracy theory bandwagons, but, given all the shit this administration has done, its also hard for me to blindly brush this accusation aside.

Like Risa said, its not beyond the realm of possibility.




Shit, I'm going to log off before I find myself agreeing with her again.

oot.

[Luther]

Your man Clark "thinks", "suggests" "feels" this way without an actual finding of truth? How does one "know" if three close shots to the head were made by accident or by a murderous fellow soldier and getting his orders from "the top" ? Is Clark glumping in the conspiracy to cover up the death with an even belief that there was a conspiracy to murder him? Could Tillman been murdered? Of course, very possible but how in the hell can one leap from that reality to factoring in some "top level" conspiracy?

All it takes is for one soldier, possibly angry with Tillman, or jealous, or maybe someone who just didn't like the guy because he played for Arizona, or that he boned his ex-girlfriend. Maybe it was just a plain old murder, done during the course of combat with the belief that it would just go down as a friendly accident. Or it could have been just an accident.

The difference between you and me is this: If I lose control of my car and crash into a pole, I blame myself. If you crash into a pole you suspect Bush and his Chenron conspirators have pressured the automotive industry to kill you. With the evidence that is currently available on the Tillman incident, I can't see anything that suggests a conspiracy to have Tillman murdered. The conspiracy was in the cover-up. What did they do to that General, just take away one star? IMO, that asshole should have gone to jail.

Rip City

[LTS TRN 2]

I agree with both of you, the matter should be scrutinized carefully. What we DO have at present is method, motive, and maniacs like Rummy who would certainly push a button like that if he felt his giant plan was threatened.

[Cuda]

well...Olberman's credibility isn't in question..

Not only not in question, it's not even in existence.

[LTS TRN 2]

Regardless, prick, Olbermann's not making the assessment. Are you up to challenging Clark? Are you ready to automatically dismiss him as "unpatriotic" or some other smear?

Look, Tillman was murdered. Shot three times in the head at close range when, as it turns out, there was no enemy fire at all. Clark is an astute military expert. Are you?

Really, wouldn't Rummy have Tillman whacked if he honestly thought the high-profile hero was going to come out against the Iraq invasion? With Chomsky assisting!? C'mon, prick, this isn't about me or Olbermann. It's been no secret for a long time that the current (unelected) cabal are a bunch of astonishingly incompetent fanatics.

[Luther]

Clark is an astute military expert. Are you?

I giggled, but not so much as you might think. Clark was a top dog for many years, and I do respect him. I do listen to him and I try to take it all in. But let me just say this; Just because he had all those accreditions he wasn't long in the trenches. It is kind of like many police departments. Would you really put more stock into what some chief who maybe had 5 years on the street, then started climbing into such jobs as Sgt. in the Fingerprint division, a Lt. in the records division, a Captain in Planning and Research, a Deputy Chief in Training, and finally the Chief himself to a career street cop and or street Sgt.?

astute
One entry found for astute.


Main Entry: as·tute
Pronunciation: &-'stüt, a-, -'styüt
Function: adjective
Etymology: Latin astutus, from astus craft
: having or showing shrewdness and perspicacity <an astute observer> <astute remarks>; also : CRAFTY, WILY
synonym see SHREWD
- as·tute·ly adverb
- as·tute·ness noun

Yeah, I'll probably agree with that. Now Nick, are you sitting down? You might want to have a small cup of water handy. According to wikipedia, General Clark's best friend is Jewish. Wes converted to Catholicism, as he was born to a long history of Jews. You hate the Jews, Nicky. Sure he converted to being Catholic and all, but holy Hebrew your man was raised by what you abhor. Jews, mang. He probably still has Jewish relatives, and they probably even shake hands and well, Wes actually touches them. I know you are probably on the verge of puking and all, but this is your guy. I mean, I hope your strawman argument doesn't devastate you. [laughing]I mean, you wouldn't really use a man who was a Jew or had a Jew as his best friend, would you? Fuck, Nick...he might have even drank from the same whiskey bottle in the past. [/laughing]

Oh, is it true that Wes offered up his astute knowledge on how to deal with the small little problem in that small little town called, Waco? Tell us again about the Jewish man, the Jewish customs, the Jewish nation and what you really think of Jews. Or would you want me to go and copy every link on where you degrade the people, the faith and post the results here? You using Wesley Clark as your source is like Paris Hilton putting down Darryl Strawberry as her drug/alcohol recovery specialist.

Rip City

[War Wagon]

I don't have a troll. That would require too much work.

And I don't give gratuitous racks.

But holy fuck, rack Luth.

Just an old school mofo are you, and I'd share a foxhole any damn day.

[LTS TRN 2]

Luth, clearly YOU are the Zionut here. I know well of Clark's positions, his biography. I don't believe ANYTHING he's said relates to Jews. Have some prune juice and go read some epistles or whatever.



Who's side are you on?

[Luther]

Man, we're down to IKYABWAI smack from the old Foo'ster? Remember the old FOO days back at TNW? I even dug back in my catalog and found that old Halloween party you and Wes attended. You held the figurine of Mrs. FOO and Wes was holding the democratic donkey.



I really miss those TNW days of wytching you and all your Chinese friends. Am I right, Chinese or some other Asian country? You had the same, repeated drum beat over there about conspiracies, Bush, the White man, your 81 mph fastball that nobody this side of Canton could hit. You remember all those great times we had don't you? Don't fib now...you really didn't know that Wes was raised by Jews and only converted later in his life, did you? You wouldn't have ever took the word of a Jew...well, I mean an ex-Jew.

It was probably one of the funniest things you've ever done on these forums.

:D

Rip City

[LTS TRN 2]

Luth, put down the sherry. I've always put right up front my admiration of all sorts of Jews, so just give it up. Though, you seem to pretty welded to this attack.

But, General Wesley Clark is NOT talking about Jews. Just because Rummy, the prime suspect as inferred by Clark's very bold assertion, is (was) part and parcel with what Colin Powell called the "JINSA set." You know, it's like AIPAC or PNAC--a bunch of fanatical war-mongers.

But, the murder occurred, Clark has manned up when the co-opted media has curled, and we are faced with a dire situation. Deal with it.

[PSUFAN]

So is somebody going to sue Clark for slander, or what?

He just got on TV and accused the brass of killing Pat Tillman over politics.

Hello?

[Risa]

So is somebody going to sue Clark for slander, or what?

He just got on TV and accused the brass of killing Pat Tillman over politics.

Hello?

Because it's true... and like Whittington being shot in the face, and the ludicrous reason given afterwards for his being shot in the face at point blank range in a way in which there is no way Cheney could have been tracking quail at the time, followed by the issues with the initial and Sheriff's police report and Cheney being listed as sober with no breathalyzer or blood tests done on him... who's going to do anything about it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbQVGcBmyu0

Why would doctors have been blocked by the army from examining Tillman's body, in the first place; and why would the army lawyers have congratulated themselves in email about blocking the doctors from Tillman's body?

Olbermann says Tillman's mother says Pat was murdered, but she's being ignored; Clark is just asking for an investigation into what's happening, he wants to know who is being protected and why.

Clark is right.

There's a 3 star general being demoted over this? That's not right. It's Abu Ghraib all over again, making the little guys the fall guys for what the top people are doing.




If Pat Tillman was fragged, we need to know about it. It would not change anything regarding Tillman's heroism or patriotism or utter godliness. But we need to know what happened to him out there, and who gave orders, as well as who gave orders meant to be interpreted in such a way as to remove Tillman without actually saying 'frag him'. We shouldn't be afraid of the truth.

And thank you, LTS, for posting this. What have the official political sites said about this?

[Risa]

So is somebody going to sue Clark for slander, or what?

He just got on TV and accused the brass of killing Pat Tillman over politics.

Hello?

It is next to impossible for a public figure to sue for slander or libel.

Even Tom Cruise?


Anyway, I see Clark as raising some valid questions without actually saying 'you motherfuckers did it!' .. he is asking (repeatedly) for an investigation. A real one.

If the order was given for Pat to be fragged, who should really pay?

[Risa]

Anyway, I see Clark as raising some valid questions without actually saying 'you motherfuckers did it!'

You're a fucking idiot.

ah, now that gives me a warm feeling all over.

...stated that "the orders came from the very top" to murder Pat Tillman.

.. he is asking (repeatedly) for an investigation. A real one.

There have already been five fucking investigations into this case, dipshit. Five of them.

What did those five fucking investigations say about the Army lawyers who intentionally blocked doctors from examining Tillman's body in order to rule out murder?

It's like the Warren Commission was wrong about the magic bullet -- or that Sheriff acting like a paid lackey for Cheney (in the exact same way gossip maven Mario Lavendaria has acted like a paid lackey for Paris Hilton) last February. Sometimes, an official 'case closed' is not the same as Truth.

Anyway, what Clark said was: "If there's even a hint that there was something like a homicide or a murder in this case, it should've been fully investigated and proved or disproved, and we don't really know how far up- Was it the Secretary of Defense's office? Was it the White House? Where did the idea that you shouldn't give any indication of what happened to Tillman. 'Just go ahead and go through with the burial ceremony. Give him the Silver Star.' Where did that- where was that idea blessed? You can be sure that that idea did not originate or stop at the Two- or Three-Star level. That was- someone approved that all the way to the top, because Pat Tillman was a political symbol used by the administration when it suited their purposes."


Clark is right. Don't let your hate for him and his possible motives blind you to the fact that he is right. Spare the hate for those who should be asking these questions, but (for their own whoring reasons) do not.

[Neely8]

I think Pat Tillman's mom and Cindy Sheehan should get together!! Then we can FRAG both of their asses!!!!!

[PSUFAN]

Clark is right.

Yes he is...but when mvscal responds with "nobody cares", he's pretty much on target.

Look, people have a tendency to forget things like this. Case in point - where did all of that African-American outrage go after the 2000 election? Right out the fucking window. Did it motivate black leaders to develop a more effective and consistent voting bloc? Of course not. People are too fat, lazy, and stupid to give a good goddamn.

[Luther]

oh Jesus, now you've done it and opened yet another RACE door.

Later

Rip City

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

Wesley Clark? The same Wesley Clark, the "Butcher Of Kosovo", who slit the throats of the peaceful, socially progressive Serbs and
handed over their land to the allies of Al Queda?

Fuck Wesley Clark
Fuck America

...and fuck you.

[PSUFAN]

the peaceful, socially progressive Serbs

bwaahahaha

[Risa]

Clark is right.

Yes he is...but when mvscal responds with "nobody cares", he's pretty much on target.

Clark is the one exploiting ignorance and indifference here. Sure what he says seems reasonable...until you consider that this case has gone through five separate investigations.

What did the investigations say about the Army lawyers (as KO referenced in LTS's link and its embedded youtube link, above) who blocked doctors from completely examining Tillman's body to determine whether or not he was murdered, then congratulated themselves in emails
about blocking those doctors?

Something is not right here. If it takes 10 more investigations to get to truth, then we need those 10 more investigations.

The facts have been established in no uncertain terms. The cover up, such as it was, started at the bottom. That mission was a total clusterfuck.

Why was Tillman killed, at the bottom?

If the 'top' (the Bush-Cheney administration) had anything to do with covering up how Tillman was killed at that bottom, for political reasons, then they are a party to the madness and need to be held accountable for it.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

the peaceful, socially progressive Serbs

bwaahahaha

So nice that your shitty country went to bat for that Al Queda offshoot, the Kosovo Liberation Army.
How'd that turn out for you?



Ain't the mujis a bitch?

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

...(the Bush-Cheney administration)...need to be held accountable for it.

I'm holding my breath.

Maybe Nancy Pelosi will call for impeachment procedings.

[LTS TRN 2]

There have already been five fucking investigations into this case, dipshit. Five of them.

So, our resident Nazi has weighed in, predictably, with seething snarls and dismissive hissings. Apparently Rummy's "investigations" are plenty good enough for him. Especially that Silver Star. Nice touch, eh? That'll shut 'em up!

Problem is the fact of Tillman having been shot at close range three times in the head, while no enemy fire was occurring has just come to light. So...the previous "investigations" were conducted by ?

or was it this guy?



Hate to break it you, babs, but despite the blather of Rusp Limpdick and assorted hacks, this whole catastrophe is coming apart.

[MickBastard]

I'm way late in the thread here, haven't read it all, but to say Tillman (rest in peace) was an "intellectual" and then mention that he was contacting Noam Chomsky (a perverted, dangerously psychotic pseudo-intellectual) to speak out against the war is ridiculous. Chomsky's head is so far up his own ass that he sees third world dictatorships as Gardens of Eden compared to his perspective on America. Tillman was a very ill-informed intellectual if this was true. May he rest in peace, and this entire story reeks of politically motivated treachery.

[LTS TRN 2]

Your problem is that is not a fact.

Sure, babs, it's just lies from the America-hating, Drive-By media. Sure, Rusp Limpdick says the same thing, so I guess we should just shut the fuck up!

WW

[LTS TRN 2]

he was contacting Noam Chomsky (a perverted, dangerously psychotic pseudo-intellectual), and this entire story reeks of politically motivated treachery.

BWWWAAAAAAAaaaaa

Who is this clown?

I challenge ANYONE to weigh in against a specific position by Noam Chomsky. I will personally pound you like an abalone, M-bastard, you joke of a fake.

[PSUFAN]

I challenge ANYONE to weigh in against a specific position by Noam Chomsky

I wasn't too fond of that last one.

--Mrs. Chomsky