Hey, did you guys hear?

[Dinsdale]

The Blazers are getting Greg Oden.

Do you know what this means?


That's right...it means you aren't.


I'll leave it to you to do the rest of the math.

[War Wagon]

The team that takes Durant will get more for the money.

Waaay more.

You act like it's a done deal, and maybe it is, but one day you may wish different.

[buckeye_in_sc]

^^^^^^^^^so you base that on Oden playing 1/2 a year with some other scoring threats (Ron Lewis, etc around him) and Durant basically carrying his team because he was the only big time scorer...nice analysis there WW...


Look either player is going to be a stud dog for either U & L team...that is a fact...I personally would like to see Oden go to the Blazers just to see him with Aldridge and Roy...wow...not saying that the Sonics with him wouldn't be good...and conventional wisdom tells you to take the big man...the last how many NBA champions had bona fide centers in Shaq, Ben Wallace, Duncan, etc...so I would err on that side but my homerism plays into this...


also read where the Portland GM is thinking about trading up to secure another top pick to get Conley Jr...WOW...that would be huge...

[indyfrisco]

Do you know what this means?

Portland will still underachieve with great talent?

[Dinsdale]

Do you know what this means?

Portland will still underachieve with great talent?

Link?


Last time there was "great talent"(which it wasn't, but it was a couple of very good players surrounded by medicroe players), the Blazers made a couple of Conference Finals appearances.

When they trimmed the fat, ditched the malcontents and the criminal element(2 to go), the long string of playoff appearances came to an end.

Are we talking about the same NBA?


And there is rumor of sending Zach and Jarrett Jack to Chicago for the #9 pick. There's no gaurantee that Conley will be around at 9, and there's a few teams desperate for a PG...the Blazers are deep at point. Solid rumor, but I have my doubts.

Pritchard has already made it clear the #1 pick isn't up for grabs, no way, no how.

And let's see -- every coach, GM, and scout in the NBA believes Oden is more of a "sure thing," and the big daddies don't come along very often. You don't know how much laughter the casual fan-tards are getting with the "Durant will be better." Yeah, Seattle's getting "the next KG," while the Blazers are getting "the next Tim Duncan." A quick check of the scoreboard shows which is a smarter pick.

And let's see -- one of those two really overachieved and put their team on their shoulders when the pressure was on, both in the conference tourney, and at the Big Dance, while one wasn't nearly so impressive when the games "mattered." Which one was which again?

The Blazers have built a solid, solid foundation. I'm not sure which is a better fit -- a humble, unassuming big man, or the biggest ball-hog since Kevin Willis, with a severe superiority complex...hmmm.....tough call. Because goodness knows, there's no one on the Blazers who can score :rolleyesifyouneedit:, and bringing in a guy who's going to jack up 30 shots a game would be good for the chemistry:yeahright:.


There's a reason some of you tards aren't GMs in the NBA.



Anyhoo...I've already heard all the Conley stuff. The only reason I can see for this is to appease Oden 2-3 years from now, by employing his buddy. Other than that, the Blazers have freaking traded away a high 1st round PG, and have drafted a PG in the first round in both of the last 2 drafts. And frankly, we've had our fill of midget PGs over the last several years. Jack reminds of the glory days when Terry Porter used to physically abuse the other point. While not as gifted on offense, Jarrett is reminiscent of TP on defense...beat the crap out of them, and see how they're doing in the 4th quarter...if you need a better explaination, ask John Stockton...TP made that HoF PG his personal bitch for many years...and we want that again. And Sergio Rodriguez makes Nash and Kidd look like lazy ballhandlers...unfortunately, I can't see how we'll keep both Jack and Spanish Chocolate down the road.


With the #1 pick, it's appearing more and more that Zach is gone, and it's becoming obvious that the Zers have their sights set on Rashard Lewis...getting Lewis is alomost a waiting-for-free-agent-season formality. To get another max-salary guy, Zach needs to go. Rumor has it that the Bulls really want Zach, though -- I suppose between him and Ben, the two of them put together make a dominant offensive and defensive player, and Stas-Bo won't have to get up and down at the West pace, which would help his game a bunch.


Next season is already looking like Oden, Aldridge, Lewis, The Natural, and Jack.


Holy shit. Wow. We are...

Red Hot and Rollin'.

Rip City.

Mercy, mercy.

No doubt about it.


I'm sure we'll be dusting off all sorts of catch-phrases from bygone eras. Rip City is Rip City once again.



I guess we'll need to make more room up in the rafters for more banners(which oddly enough, they moved last season. The Championship and all the Western Conference Champ banners now hang over the main entrance of the building, rather than in the actual arena itself...not sure why).

[indyfrisco]

I just wanted to see how much you'd type after my one liner. You just gave my eyes carpal tunnel.

But I agree, the Blazers up side is looking good. I remember getting excited like that when the Rockets got Yao.

[Raydah James]

Yeah, Seattle's getting "the next KG," while the Blazers are getting "the next Tim Duncan." A quick check of the scoreboard shows which is a smarter pick.

Goddamn I hate you casual fan fairweather fucks.


This just in, the "next (insert name of star)" comparisons are a joke. Harold Minor (The "next" Jordan, dude's nickname was even "Baby Jordan"), Jason Kidd (The "next" magic), Sam Bowie (The "next" Kareem), Lamar Odom(The next "pippen") or the tons of other decent to bad players who have been compared to greats and have fallen woefully short out front shouldve told you.



Probably in your best interest to leave the "Scorecard" calling to the two teams fans who have the real KG and Tim Duncan. Fucking Tard.

[Goober McTuber]

Nice write-up from a Celtic fan:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/st ... d=tab1pos1

[War Wagon]

I'm not reading all that, Goobs.

^^^^^^^^^so you base that on Oden playing 1/2 a year with some other scoring threats (Ron Lewis, etc around him) and Durant basically carrying his team because he was the only big time scorer...nice analysis there WW...

No, I'm saying it because I saw enough of both players to know which is the more talented and has more upside. And don't act like Texas didn't have some other players who could score. DJ Augustine ring a bell?

Look either player is going to be a stud dog for either U & L team...that is a fact...I personally would like to see Oden go to the Blazers just to see him with Aldridge and Roy...wow...not saying that the Sonics with him wouldn't be good...

I've been reading lately where the Sonics might move if they don't get a sweet deal on a new arena. KC is on the short list of where they could end up. From that standpoint, I hope the Blazers do take Oden.

[Goober McTuber]

I'm not reading all that, Goobs.

Sorry, Whitey. I'll try to find something with a lot of pretty pictures in it.

[War Wagon]

Good, but no porn, eh?

[buckeye_in_sc]

WW - yeah DJ Augustine is a stud...but no one is confusing him with Durant...Oden couldn't even practice...did you watch the NC Game...he played like a monster against one of the deepest and best FRONT LINES in college basketball...2 of them are going to be top 10-15 picks in Horford and Noah...25 points and 12 boards to go along with 4 blocks is pretty studly I might add...

Trust me...I am not taking anything away from Durant...but I think both of these kids are going to be special...let's just let them play a season or two before we determine who has the this and that...all I am saying...cuz last time I checked none of us are NBA GM's...

good discussion...keep it going...I love both of those kids...great great players...

now if the Blazers swing the deal and land Conley...WOW...

[WolverineSteve]

Stats have nothing to do with this arguement, as each guy plays entirely different roles. Bottom line is....true back to the basket centers are once or twice a decade finds. Look them up...Shaq, Duncan, Hakeem, Sampson, Ewing, Robinson..............Oden. These guys fill a need for as long as they choose to lace em up. Durant may prove to be special, but no more special than any 20 or so slasher/scorers in the league today. Championships are built on far more than guys who stuff stat sheets. The post season is about exploiting matchups. A bonafied center is a cornerstone to a long run as contenders.

[Dinsdale]

Goddamn I hate you casual fan fairweather fucks.

You can troll better than that, dude.

Among Blazerfans, I'm about the last one of the bunch who will ever be accused of being "fairweather"...but you knew that. I've been to so many games during the "down years," it would make your head spin. And I've caught most of the rest on TV.


But, I did get the humor of that coming from you -- I at least live in the same metropolitan area as the team I root for.

I've bled Red and Black since I was old enough to hold a basketball. Still got memorabilia from 1977, somewhere. Got my unopened Clyde Drexler Wheaties box. Got a Blazer Dancer poster from about every year since 1998, or whenever they started(Ione freaking rules-btw...the dirty little whore).


You were saying?



Props to Wolverine Steve, for proving that not everyone is quite as fucking stupid as Whitey.


There's instantly become a whole new group of outcasts in Portland...the Durant supporters. The 98% of the people that don't fall into that category refer to the Durant camp as "tards."


And while Pritchard is trying to sound openminded and nuetral, unless Oden is caght with Marion Barry and a 12 year old hooker in the next 5 weeks, the debate is over.

[Moorese]

I've been reading lately where the Sonics might move if they don't get a sweet deal on a new arena. KC is on the short list of where they could end up.

KC is on the list of 2, but OKC is the more likely destination. The OKC ownership realizes that both cities are relatively small television markets, but Bennet has no support with Seattle, King County, or the State, and no one will spend a penny to keep the team here. There's support for the NHL and MLS (neither of which we have), but none for the NBA and WNBA (neither of which we'll have for long). There's no chance they get any public funding for an new arena, nor is there any chance the Legislature will grant the request for a special session and a public vote (which they would lose in a LANDSLIDE). The Sonics will play a lame duck season at the Key in 07-08 (much like last season), pack a few semis, and bolt. I'd expect a few white kids from the suburbs in Ray Allen jerseys and a rowdy group of 20 or so furtrappers that follow the Storm to be present when they start up the engines. Frankly, I don't think anyone else will even notice when they are gone.

BANK on the Sonics leaving town.

[Dinsdale]

BANK on the Sonics leaving town.

I won't even begin to claim I know more about the sports atmosphere in Gravytrain City than yourself...


But I just can't see the move. I see some 11th-hour heroics going down and them staying put.

First, I don't have exact numbers as of the last couple of days, but I know Supe season ticket sales have taken a large upswing.

Next, you can't tell me a green and gold* Durant jersey isn't going to be a very hot item all over the country.

There will be Supes games on national TV.


You combine these things, which will either produce a sharp spike in popularity, or be the result of one, combine that with shameless bandwagonning nature of Junkytown fan, in a city that's chalk-full of very wealthy corporations and individuals, and I foresee a large upswing in Sonic popularity.

Are you spikers really going to ship out the only professional team to ever win a title from that town?


Here's my Fantasy Ownership League dream scenario -- Bill Freaking Gates buys the Supes outright. A rivalry that's been tooth-and-nail bitter for 35 years gets a whole bunch more bitter(non U&Lers probably don't understand that this rivalry has never been "friendly," and before all of the sissy anti-fighting rules, was good for at least one bench-clearer per season if not more, and often resulted in the merciless beatings of opposing fans...Blazers/Sonics ain't fucking around, although Stern took all the fun out of it).

You know Evil Allen is trying to goad his boy into buying the team to play hoops-chess with his old buddy/rival.


I do see a huge wave of renewed Sonics enthusiasm in the very near future, ance the full impact of the lottery draw sinks in to the general public...which it still really hasn't here yet -- the intial euphoria is still going on.


And in the end, om a business perspective -- it would be fucking nuts to move a team from a very large media market to a much smaller one...that's quite possibly going to amount to the "bottom line." Seattle is the #13 media market, and any ownership would be fucking crazy to move it to the #31 market(which is below the line at which markets start to get significantly smaller), or worse yet, the #45 market(although granted, there is much less competition for the sports dollars in OKC than KC). Plus, figure the hypothetical "sports media market" extends well beyond the Seattle media market(just look at TV and radio ratings for the M's, although M's numbers are skewed due to the popularity of the radio broadcasts in Portland...everyone loves a baseball radio game), and includes much of the region.


On the bottom line, moving a franchise that's clearly on the revenue/popularuty upswing just doesn't make sense.


You fuckers should close up the roof, and build a mini-arena in Safeco...that would rock.



* -- Which rocket sugeon decided that green and gold would be good colors for a Seattle team? Seems to me, the most established, most successful sports team in town at the time of the Sonics' inception had an archrival that wore green and gold. Oh well, speaks to Seattle sports brilliance.

[SunCoastSooner]

I've been reading lately where the Sonics might move if they don't get a sweet deal on a new arena. KC is on the short list of where they could end up. From that standpoint, I hope the Blazers do take Oden.

If Seattle leaves it will move to Oklahoma City. If you have any doubt about this just google the Sonic's Ownership....

Bennet isn't interested in selling the team Dins.

[Dinsdale]

If Seattle leaves it will move to Oklahoma City. If you have any doubt about this just google the Sonic's Ownership....

Yeah...it would be all about the homer, and have nothing to do with what location would be the most financially viable.


Uhm...yeah.


Not saying it won't be OKC, but if you think that's a done deal, and not subject to muuuuuuch research and number-cruching, you're sorely mistaken.

Of the 3 places being discussed, Las Vegas probably sounds the most attractive to the business side of things -- about the same size market as OKC, except is growing at an alarming rate, and has much more public funds available to throw at the deal, and its residents have more disposable income.


Matter of fact, Bennett even TOLD people he was targeting Vegas...there is that.


That is...if the NBA can get past that whole sportsbook thing...

[SunCoastSooner]

If Seattle leaves it will move to Oklahoma City. If you have any doubt about this just google the Sonic's Ownership....

Yeah...it would be all about the homer, and have nothing to do with what location would be the most financially viable.

With Bennet it is. He had a oppertunity to move the OKC Blazers 5 years ago on a sweet deal to some place I forget where and stayed in OKC. He kept the avs afloat for three seasons longer than they were finacially viable because it was OKC and it was going to have a baketball team come hell or high water... or bankruptcy.

Uhm...yeah.


Not saying it won't be OKC, but if you think that's a done deal, and not subject to muuuuuuch research and number-cruching, you're sorely mistaken.

Of the 3 places being discussed, Las Vegas probably sounds the most attractive to the business side of things -- about the same size market as OKC, except is growing at an alarming rate, and has much more public funds available to throw at the deal, and its residents have more disposable income.


That is...if the NBA can get past that whole sportsbook thing...

I agree finacially... and let me remind you I don't have any affinity for Oklahoma outside of OU. I am by no means an Okie. I'm an east coaster for the most part, spent the vast majority of my life short of two years in high school and college, on the right coast...

Clay Bennet is that much of an Oklahoma homer to ignore the numbers and only see the letters OKC.

[Dinsdale]

Another funny sidenote -- I don't think most of the hoopsfans realize that Seattle spent a bunch of dough on upgrades to the current arena within the last 10 years.

New arenas don't bring in the fans, anyway. Winning games does. Sure, the Blazers built a new one...after the old one sold out every game for almost 20 years, and capacity was increased by over 50%. People started going to games because they could finally get tickets(before the Hosed Garden, it was easier to get into Willy Wonka's factory than the Glass Palace), not to see the shiney new arena.

[Dinsdale]

Clay Bennet is that much of an Oklahoma homer to ignore the numbers and only see the letters OKC.

Oh. That must be why he flat-out told his business group and his potential investors that he wanted to move the team to Vegas.


The OKC move is mainly a media-generated hype thing, not a reality-based thing(just like the Conley "trade").

Since NO played in OKC while their building was trashed, it only follows that the Sonics are moving to OKC, right? Makes for a good headline, anyway...and never came from Bennett or the Sonics themselves.


I'd say "we'll watch and see," but I've got a strong hunch what we'll see is the resurgent Supes stay in Seattle...but you never know.


What we DO know, is that Bennett has been whining like a baby about losing money, to the point he expects taxpayers to bail him out of a bad financial decision...poor guy. Goint to a city that would literally raise(or lower) the bar on a "small market team" would be an exercise in complete stupidity from a financial standpoint, especially after his failure in a fairly large market.

[Dinsdale]

Then again...Bennett wants to move out of a downtown arena to the traffic-plagued burbs, an area where many of the "city-folk" wouldn't be caught dead in(sup Moorese)...so he ain't exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer.


And there's that whole deal where when he purchased the team, he signed a "good faith" clause that required a "good faith" effort to keep the team in Seattle...and so far, his "good faith" has been nonexistent. They are under contract with Key Arena through 2010, if I remember right, and there could be some really serious financial implications if he breaks his agreement, especially with the contentious way he's gone about things.


Lose/lose situation for this loser.

[Dinsdale]

also read where the Portland GM is thinking about trading up to secure another top pick to get Conley Jr...WOW...that would be huge...

No...

But the newspaper thought it would be cool to report that KP is thinking about it.

Not going to happen.

Only way I could see it working is if the Bucks got him, and they traded him and Redd for Zach. And Redd would probably be coming off the bench, and he wouldn't be happy about it.


Even Oden doesn't see it happening, although they're close buddies. Oden even hinted that since he thought Conley was the better player between the two of them, maybe it was time for Mike to step out from behind his shadow.


A couple of interesting points there, though -- the Blazers are deep at point. They picked up two first rounders in the last two years, and have local favorite Dan Dickeau(certainly not a star, nor will he ever be, but a more-than-servicable third-stringer) sitting in the wings.

This is eventually going to be a problem. Sergio Rodriguez led the league in assists-per-minute for much of last season, coming off the bench as a rook. Jarrett Jack is smart, and a defensive monster, and has very quickly been embraced by Blazerfan for his tough play and sparkling personality. We love the guy universally. Serg hasn't yet figured out that the ball is his friend.


So, one of them isn't going to resign.

Either Conley is going to flourish, and get big bucks, or he will try to continue to develop. And in 3 years, he's a free man. Don't think for a minute that KP isn't telling the Conley family some shit they want to hear -- like if Conley leaves his team after 3, the Blazers will pick him up for good money...count on that being the case.

Just depends how all of the PGs in question pan out over the next 2-3 years.

[Moorese]

Are you spikers really going to ship out the only professional team to ever win a title from that town?

Nope. We're going to ship out the only two pro sports teams to win titles since the Storm will be scouring either Central Oklahoma or Western Missouri quite soon looking for a new Melissa Etheridge loving fanbase. :insertrolleyes:

No doubt that Bennet would prefer to stay here for the payoff in the end (witness his attempts at a new facility in Renton), but he has ZERO pull in a city where everyone with a nice house is a millionaire. The sequence just hasn't played out well for the Supes...

The Key gets a 100 million dollar facelift.
Schultz (local boy/fucking putz) buys the Sonics, promises a champion, and agrees to a lease of the Key.
Schultz thereafter complains about the very lease he signed, saying he's hemorrhaging money, while with a one season exception, the teams sucks. (Oh irony, Schultz, the ultimate corporate pirate, wailing about getting outfoxed by the dipshits from the Seattle Center who talked him OUT of concessions while also managing shit like a Children's Museum and an amusement park.)
The Supes treat Mr. Sonic like shit and basically run Nate's ass to Portland after he singlehandedly made the team competitive for a season. (Sure, Supes fans and Blazers fans are traditional bitter enemies, but the rancor softened a bit when Nate went South BECAUSE of our front office.)
Schultz always waits until 2 weeks are left in the Legislative session before running in breathlessly and demanding a new arena or new lease with no concrete plans for either. They show him the fucking door.
Schultz sells the team (and the same lease obligation) to a group that he says he believes will keep the team here - a group that just happens to have a nice, new arena in a cowtown starving for something, anything - without attempting to sell locally because operating losses reached a high of $20 million in the last season (meanwhile the team's appreciation rate is dwarfing operating losses such that Schultz and crew make well over $100 million dollars on a team they sold out.)
Optimism is low, naturally, and THEN Bennet comes in and makes demands for public funding to an unsympathetic city, county, and state for an arena in Renton...Renton...for a game that hasn't been interesting in almost a decade. Bennet is a nice enough guy, but is apparently used to getting an instant audience back home. By the way, Bennet and crew turn out to be pro-life thumpers. You can imagine how poorly that's played.

Personally, I think locals would prefer to maintain a ready reason to hate Schultz than to find a reason to help out Bennet. There are more people actively ushering the Supes out of town (s'up Mayor's Office and City Council, both of whom have pulled any support) than are making any efforts to keep them. Sure, someone could swoop in, but I sure wouldn't put my cash on the prospect. Simply put, Seattlites don't want the team here if the price is buying an arena in Renton for Bennet. We have Paul Allen types, we have Yamauchi/Nintendo types...we breed this shit locally so we'll begrudgingly give them cash when they beg. (Schultz would have eventually gotten what he wanted had he gotten off his ass and presented legitimate, well-researched proposals, instead of just crying like a little bitch.) But we don't have any down home Christer types, and we damn sure don't build them arenas.

[War Wagon]

If Seattle leaves it will move to Oklahoma City.

Mebbe so, but OKC can't offer this:



62 luxury suites that are already sold out for a facility that doesn't even open for 5 months and has no major tenant yet.

KC wants a NHL or NBA franchise badly, and will offer free rent and a share of the arena revenue to get one. They'd sell out every game with a rabid sports fan base that hasn't sniffed a Championship in 20 years

That said, the Sonics will probably use OKC and KC (or Vegas) as leverage to get what they want from Seattle, just like the Penguins did.

[SunCoastSooner]

Clay Bennet is that much of an Oklahoma homer to ignore the numbers and only see the letters OKC.

Oh. That must be why he flat-out told his business group and his potential investors that he wanted to move the team to Vegas.


The OKC move is mainly a media-generated hype thing, not a reality-based thing(just like the Conley "trade").

Since NO played in OKC while their building was trashed, it only follows that the Sonics are moving to OKC, right? Makes for a good headline, anyway...and never came from Bennett or the Sonics themselves.


I'd say "we'll watch and see," but I've got a strong hunch what we'll see is the resurgent Supes stay in Seattle...but you never know.


What we DO know, is that Bennett has been whining like a baby about losing money, to the point he expects taxpayers to bail him out of a bad financial decision...poor guy. Goint to a city that would literally raise(or lower) the bar on a "small market team" would be an exercise in complete stupidity from a financial standpoint, especially after his failure in a fairly large market.

Dins the previous two owners had the same complaints about Seattle it isn't just Clay Bennet.

[SunCoastSooner]

If Seattle leaves it will move to Oklahoma City.

Mebbe so, but OKC can't offer this:



62 luxury suites that are already sold out for a facility that doesn't even open for 5 months and has no major tenant yet.

KC wants a NHL or NBA franchise badly, and will offer free rent and a share of the arena revenue to get one. They'd sell out every game with a rabid sports fan base that hasn't sniffed a Championship in 20 years

That said, the Sonics will probably use OKC and KC (or Vegas) as leverage to get what they want from Seattle, just like the Penguins did.

The Sprint Center is state of the art no doubt. OKC is one of the few places in the country that does have an arena that can compete with that Wags. The Ford Center is very plush as well. Honestly I think the Sprint Center's exterior is attrocious, but that JMHO.

Kansas City has already failed with basketball, the Royals (who I love and we all know it here at T1B) has struggled for years both on the field and in the stands.

Finacially OKC and Kansas City are very comparable as far as disppsable income. The entertainment districts around the Ford Center I am assuming are probably a lot better than the Sprint Center.

[Goober McTuber]

chalk-full

Was this intentional? Or are you just running rough-shot all over the English language?

[SunCoastSooner]

Caught this tid bit at another site...

Bennett said Tuesday that despite the splendid lottery news of last week — the Sonics will pick second in the NBA draft, giving them either Greg Oden or Kevin Durant, both projected superstars — he is out of ideas for a new arena in Seattle and has begun preliminary discussions with Oklahoma City and Kansas City about possible relocation.

"My expectation and my belief is that if we leave Seattle, we're quite likely headed to Oklahoma City,” Bennett said from his office on the 31st floor of Oklahoma Tower. "But that decision has to be made with appropriate due diligence. We have to do that work. Just can't proclaim we're moving here.”

"For now, without a building solution, it's our intent to play in Seattle and apply for relocation immediately after the (Oct. 31) deadline,” Bennett said. The Oklahoma City group agreed to give Seattle until Oct. 31 to produce an arena deal.

"I think we'll get there,” Bennett said of deciding Oklahoma City is the best relocation site. "But we'll do so with involvement from the league.”

"Government and private business working together, working for the greater good. I believe in that concept as strongly as ever. It's what's setting Oklahoma City apart these days.”

[Dinsdale]

Here, allow me to help solve this problem...

Are you spikers really going to ship out the only professional team to ever win a title from that town?

Nope. We're going to ship out the only two pro sports teams to win titles since

Ohhhhkay...if you count lesbian sports among your city's championship totals, it speaks volumes about the overall makeup of the sportsfans in that town.

Then again, Emerald Shitty has never made any bones about being the dregs of the sportsfan world.

The Key gets a 100 million dollar facelift.

This has become such a disturbing trend in sports, it's getting out of control. Blaming a freaking inanimate building for poor ticket sales is asinine. Get your fanbase pumped up by throwing up a decent season every couplefew years; treat your loyal customers well(not that anyone expects the corporate-types who can afford sports teams to understand the first thing about "customer service"); treat the fans like humans, rather than cash cows put on this earth to feed your hobbies with cash; and sell a decent product...


And they will come. I'd go watch the Blazers play in an auction barn at the fairgrounds, if they offered $3 beers.

Sure, there's situations it's warranted -- like here, for instance. They sold all 12,666 tix(which became 12,888 after some finagling of some rows of seats) every single game for about 20 years, in a fairly shitty building(although if not for capacity, I'd say move back into the building next door tomorrow -- the Glass Palace was about the loudest place known to mankind, which I'm sure the world-class-bad acoustics had something to do with), so building a much larger one made sense.

But here's the rub -- 12 years ago, the Rose Garden Arena(not to be confused with the Rose Garden, which is a heavily used park, making the Rose Garden about as stupid a fucking name as they could have come up with, since it was already a very well established landmark, and if one of them had to go, it wouldn't be the park)...anyhoo, 12 years ago, the RGA was THE "plush" building in all of the NBA. Once the plan went through, the building got built, and the season tickets and suites got sold, that was about the last time so much as one dollar got spent keeping the place up. When Spectrum bought out Allens fleecing of the city and the investors, they negotiated $15 mil right off the bottom line to clean the place up. Of course, as soon as they got it working, Allen swooped back in and resumed his scam, but I guess that's neither here nor there.


And oddly enough, when the team is doing well(not in terms of wins and losses per se, but more like "not pissing the old school fanbase off"), or there's a top-flight opponent, or LeBron or someone cool comes to town, people don't seem to mind piling into that now-shitty old building one bit. When Allen is one one of his show-the-world-what-a-douchebag-I-am benders, people stay away in droves(which is painful for the Blazermaniacs, but we have a long-term plan to keep Dickweed Allen in line...and it's working to perfection...since the consumer drives the market, not the other way around).


A ner building might create a buzz for one or two seasons, but it's the product on the floor and the team's relationship with the community that sell tickets.

The Supes treat Mr. Sonic like shit and basically run Nate's ass to Portland after he singlehandedly made the team competitive for a season. (Sure, Supes fans and Blazers fans are traditional bitter enemies, but the rancor softened a bit when Nate went South BECAUSE of our front office.)

I went to Nate's welcome party(which was, oddly enough, at the REAL Rose Garden, where they grow the roses in the Rose City and stuff), and he made it quite clear that it wasn't about money, it was about going somewhere with a "very strong winning tradition."


Funny "bitter enemies" story -- Last fall, me and a bud scored freetix to the Seachickens/Raiders Monday Night Game(never been to a Monday Nighter before), and drove up during the nasty floods(there's a party. Seattle had three night games, two were during nasty rainstorms(which aren't as common as unenlightened non-Cascadians probably think, but we like to leave them delusional to avoid migration, right?)). Not having a dog in the fight, I naturally dressed in my favorite Blazer gear(when attending sporting events in Seattle, I make it a point to wear Blazers or Ducks gear, it endears me to the masses). The people I was sitting by in my great seats picked up on this fairly quickly, oddly enough...I wasn't taking nearly the heat Raiderfan was, but there was plenty. But after a brief dicussion, my neighbors-for-the-evening decided my life was to be spared that evening, because we "drafted BROY, therefore we can't kill you." So we smoked a bunch of weed with them instead(and the cop/security dude that came to bust us, as well...good times).

operating losses reached a high of $20 million in the last season

Only 20 mil? That's chump-change losses for the Blazers for the last couple of seasons...RACK the power of the Consumer. "The financial model is broken!"

an arena in Renton...Renton

So, if you get off work at 5 or 5:30, you have to drive full-tilt nonstop across the lake to get to a 7:00 game? Yeah, that sounds like a good idea...in a boat.

By the way, Bennet and crew turn out to be pro-life thumpers. You can imagine how poorly that's played.

Yeah, thumpers are always a big hit in Cascadia, eh?

Simply put, Seattlites don't want the team here if the price is buying an arena in Renton for Bennet.

You mean after building two super-high-dollar, state-of-the-art buildings in the last few years, one of which I'm sure was a fleecing of the people of Seattle by Evil Allen(I know quite well how he operates), they didn't want to build another one out in the Eastern Abomination?

Go figure. At least Seahawk Stadium isn't right on the waterfront, like a certain building about 175 miles south of there, so Allen can cry about his losses while he parks one of his two "largest privately owned yachts in the world" directly outside the building, while simultaniouisly spending $20 million to launch a toy rocket(In a disgusting coincedence, that $20 mil figure was about the same amount as he screwed the local investors and city out of with the building bankrupcy which went down at the same time as the toy rocket...yeah, that was a good PR move).




So...are the Huskies threatening to leave town? Their building is no slice of heaven either. I think Siberia would be a nice place to relocate the Huskies.

[Moorese]

Ohhhhkay...if you count lesbian sports among your city's championship totals

Methinks you missed my rolleyes.

Blaming a freaking inanimate building for poor ticket sales is asinine.

No one is blaming the building for poor ticket sales EXCEPT ownership.

And they will come. I'd go watch the Blazers play in an auction barn at the fairgrounds, if they offered $3 beers.

Exactly. I happily watched miserable M's teams in the Kingdome (a true abomination).

I went to Nate's welcome party(which was, oddly enough, at the REAL Rose Garden, where they grow the roses in the Rose City and stuff), and he made it quite clear that it wasn't about money, it was about going somewhere with a "very strong winning tradition."

No one up here thinks it was the money, but it was motherfucking Wally Walker not even addressing the issue of Nate's expiring contract and return all during his final season. Dude (a legend in this town) coached a shit team to a series win in the playoffs and the Supes front-office wouldn't even outwardly express gratitude for fear it might drive Nate's price up. When they should have been telling all the world how much they wanted to resign Nate, they instead kept completely mum on the issue (as if it was no big deal, Nate was no big deal, and they could get easily replace him if they needed too). Fucking stooopid. Nate bolted and I damn sure don't blame him. Meanwhile...

[Dinsdale]

motherfucking Wally Walker

WHOAWHOAWHOA!

As a OG Stumptown native in-good-standing, I WILL NOT ALLOW the name of Wally Who to be taken in vain. Even though I think he only played here for one season...it just happened to be the greatest season ever put on by an NBA franchise, so he's got that going for him.

Actually, in the summer after the 77 Championship, I used to occasionally sit next to Wally at the old Timbers NASL games. The Blazers had the tickets next to ours, and as a ten year old kid, I got to sit next to all those guys. What a freaking thrill that was for a kid my age, in that magical summer. I'll tell you what -- those guys all had a very hard time trying to pay for their own beers, and had an even harder time walking out of the stadium sober. My Dad, being the sparkling personality he is, somehow always managed to get in on that free brewfest. Hell, that crazy section used to get so blitzed, they'd be shoving beers down my ten-year-old gullet by the end of the game. Wally was a frequent attendee, and I sat next to Bill Walton, Dave Twardzik, and Maurice Lucas even...you remember Luke, right? :winkyimplied: That one guy who Bill Walton named his son after?


Which brings up something no one has pointed out yet -- when Oden comes here, he'll be mentored by Luke. I don't think people quite understand how badass a combo that could be. Luke spent his share of time on the All-Defensive Team, appearing in All-Star Games, and was quite a potent scorer in his prime(led the Blazers in scoring the championship year). And Luke isn't known for taking much shit, nor letting his desciples take any, either.

Speaking of -- one of the better moment of this last season(besides ROY being King Of All He Sees), was when Lamar Odom, for some odd reason, decided that when a timeout was called, instead of going to the Laker bench, he thought it would be a better idea to go into the middle of the Blazer huddle(in Portland), and talk a bunch of shit and jump up in some faces(to this day, I don't think anyone has any explaination why he did it, except that Odom has no class whatsoever). Talk about a trip down Memory Lane -- the look on Luke's face as he walked in to intervene was a blast from the past. And I think it was the inspiration for Odom to rethink his decision. Wayyyyy old-school Blazer moment -- the man just about beat Darrel Dawkins to death during a Finals game, so I doubt he's a guy for Odom to trifle with. Luke's willingness to take one(or "give one," as the case may be) is fairly well-covered ground. Heartwarming, to say the least.



Anyhoo, to the original topic -- there's one slight snag in the whole no-brainer process...Mike Conley Sr., Oden's agent...a rookie agent at that...may possibly go all idiotic up in the bitch. Nothing major has happened yet, but the Blazer beat writers are starting to worry a little. I think it's stemmed from all of the Conley Jr rumors. Catch is, KP, who has been honest with his dealings with the fans so far(uncharacteristic for this organization of recent years), claims he hasn't made so much as one phone call to that æffect. Says Atlanta called, and offered their pick for Jack and Aldridge, which was quickly laughed off. So, if these rumors aren't coming from the Blazers or Hawks, where are they coming from? Most bets are on the rookie agent.

Oddly enough, the only benefit from us getting another undersized point gaurd, would be to make Mr Oden happy. Dealing Jack or Rodriguez at this point would be detrimental to the team. Heck, they've spent over 4 first round picks on PGs in the last 4 years...it's not an area we need to try and upgrade just for the sake of it.


So, at this point, I'd say the probability of drafting Oden has dropped below 100%. But it's just dependent on the behavior of Conley Sr., rather than anything Oden or Durant might do. Don't mistake our enthusiasm for Oden for a lack of admiration for Durant...not the case. And if Conley Sr starts clowning, KP has the nad to grab Durant in a heartbeat. If that becomes the case, it really shakes things up on the free agent/trade scene. Rashard becomes a much less important piece of the puzzle, and Zach might get one more chance to suddenly become intelligent and a law-abiding citizen.

Fun offseason already.

[Dinsdale]

No one up here thinks it was the money

Probably good thinking -- since with the state income tax, it works out to about the same as he was getting from Seattle.

[SunCoastSooner]

Blaming a freaking inanimate building for poor ticket sales is asinine.

No one is blaming the building for poor ticket sales EXCEPT ownership.

As well as the previous two owners as well.

[Dinsdale]

Y'know, as much as I hate Paul Allen, the Rose Garden Arena deal didn't go down anything like that. Once he got the support for a new building, which was warranted(regardless how cool the old POS was), he never tried to hold a gun to anyone's head. Sure, he's pulled some hall-of-fame dickhead moves since, but when it came to the arena deal, that wasn't the case.

Once the building idea came to fruition, Allen was bound and determined. It was getting built, one way or another. Allen mostly left it to the city and investors to decide how much they wanted to chip in. Since the city was broke as usual, they went in for less than 1/3rd, if I remember right. An investment group went in for another portion, and Allen caught the rest. And despite the financial nightmare of recent years, in the early days, that building was turning a profit in less than a year of completeion -- an astonishing feat for such a project. People were kind of bummed that the city didn't go in for more, since it was now making money. But....we had Trader Bob, a guy who Allen put wayyyy too much trust in. The financial mismanagement that came with Trader Bob's(we never speak his full name) blank checkbook wasn't ever going to be sustainable. He took a franchise that at one time made more money than the Dallas Cowboys or Jordan's Bulls, and flushed their future down the toilet. Without that 100s of millions of dollars of profit a year(people used to laugh at the Blazers' spending, but in the mid-late 90's, they could easily afford it, no problem, and paying almost as much in luxury tax as they did in player payroll was no big deal), all of a sudden, making tose big payments on that building got to be a problem.


But here's the catch -- the Blazers aren't really playing the same game as everyone else. Portland's list of "largest metro area without a **insert name of sports league besides the NFL(which it ranks second to LA)**" is a big factor. There's only one major sports team in an area with over 2 million people, and outside of Seattle, there's no other cities with teams anywhere near here. Money, or one of those finance magazines did a story a few years ago about the best business environments for a sports franchise, and by their methodology, the battle for the top spot wasn't even close. This puts the Blazers in a different position from almost any sports franchise -- as long as they're not pissing people off, the fans will come, and there's plenty of people with money to drop some serious cash on suites and courtside seats, which are grossly overpriced(a few years back, the overall average price of Blazer tickets was high than that of the Knicks or the Lakers). Basically, there wasn't nearly the inherent risk in building a new arena that th3ere is in other cities...although they still managed to fuck it up. And if the "highest potential for profit" team ended up with a bankrupt building, it can certainly happen anywhere(although places like Vegas have a lot of municipal funds to make things happen).


I guess my point is...


Well, I don't really have one. I just don't think billionaires need to hit up Joe Workingman who couldn't care less about basketball to build their retail business center for them.

[Moorese]

Blaming a freaking inanimate building for poor ticket sales is asinine.

No one is blaming the building for poor ticket sales EXCEPT ownership.

As well as the previous two owners as well.

Shouldn't you be out relaxing on one of Oklahoma's many pristine bodies of water?

But seriously, you shouldn't just repeat unverified shit.

The previous two owners are Howard Schultz and Barry Ackerley.

Ackerley bought the team from Sam Schulman in 1983 for the 83-84 season. Ackerley never once blamed Key Arena for poor ticket sales, primarily because it didn't open until 1995, 12 years after he bought the team. Ticket sales were among the league's highest from 83-95 while the Supes played at the Seattle Center Coliseum, and the Supes made the playoffs in 83, 84, 87, 88, 89, 91, 92, 93, 94, and 95, were Division champs in 94, and advanced to the conference finals in 87 and 93. Once the Key opened, the Sonics packed the joint, making the playoffs in 96, 97, 98, and 2000, winning the Division in 96, 97, and 98, and reaching the NBA finals in 1996.

Schultz bought the team in 2001 with no complaints whatsoever about the Key and the lease to which he agreed. The Supes make the playoffs in 01-02, but lose in the first round. Then...
2002-2003 - No playoffs and the Supes unload GP - the last link the the 96 team.
2003-2004 - No playoffs again.
2004-2005 - The Supes miraculously make the playoffs, win the division, and come within a game of the conference finals. The wizard who makes this happen, Mr. Sonic himself, Nate McMillan, gets unceremoniously shown the door in the off-season.
2005-2006 - The Sonics replace Nate with Bob Weiss (fired after 30 games), and then Bob Hill (the reject from San Antonio that no other team will touch), then miss the playoffs AGAIN.

Around 2002, Schultz starts complaining repeatedly that the Key, and more specifically the long term lease, was costing him cash because the lease called for concessions to go the Seattle Center. The only way Schultz was getting out of the lease at the Key (and thus getting the concessions dollars) was if the team moved to a new facility off the Seattle Center grounds (Belltown park/former site of the 1962 World's Fair, Space Needle, blah, blah). The provision in the lease was hardly a secret.

The building doesn't have shit to do with ticket sales, never has, and no one but Bennet suggests as much. Put a shitty product on the Court and ticket sales will eventually decline. What Bennet and Schultz have in common is a desire to recover the lost concession dollars AND garner increased revenue by virtue of getting the public to fund a larger arena with more seats PRECISELY BECAUSE the Supes are still selling tickets even though they are a second rate club. Attendance at the Key was 93.9% to capacity last year in lame duck season.

Nothing wrong with wanting more $. Just fucking cop to it.

[Dinsdale]

The wizard who makes this happen, Mr. Sonic himself, Nate McMillan, gets unceremoniously shown the door in the off-season.

In fairness, I think it was a more complicated matter than Nate just "being shown the door." Once Mo Cheek's demise seemed inevitable, I'm pretty sure the Zers had their eye on him, and they weren't going to be denied. From what it sounded like, Allen and Mullet Patterson pulled some fairly shady shit, and kind of conspired against Captain Starbucky. They sold him on the move south pretty hard, and when the Sonics feigned disinterest, they stuck a nail in their coffin.


Speaking of ticket sales -- as of about yesterday or the day before, all seats in the lower level of the Arena are sold out for the season.

It's the freaking offseason, and Blazermania is back. When this town gets behind the team, it grows into one huge unstoppable ball of energy that just feeds upon itself. Never underestimate the power of positive thinking -- the Blazermaniacs lifted Walton, Luke, and a bunch of freaking scrubs to the most unlikely upset in Finals history. And it's going to happen again.


BTW -- I believe SCS is in Florida. From what I understand, they have at least two deece bodies of water to seek recreation in.


Rip City

[Moorese]

From what it sounded like, Allen and Mullet Patterson pulled some fairly shady shit, and kind of conspired against Captain Starbucky. They sold him on the move south pretty hard, and when the Sonics feigned disinterest, they stuck a nail in their coffin.

I don't doubt that Schultzy looked like a big fucking pinata. After all, he is the dumbass who got outfoxed by a soccer mom civic organization.

[Dinsdale]

BtH...WTF?

If you're trying to say that Kevin Durant = MJ, and Oldman = Bowie...then I'm jealous of your weed.


It was a no-brainer before. Since the predraft workouts, it's become a laughably double-not-so-secret no-brainer.


And if you wanna go with the Bowie/MJ jokes...were you even old enough to feed yourself in 84?

It's not like MJ was a no-brainer. You'll notice how no one (who knows what they're talking about, anyway), lists MJ as being anywhere near the greatest collegiate player of all time?

Why is that?

Hint: Because he wasn't even close.

Coming out of Kentucky, Bowie was "the next Bill Walton." The last time the Blazers drafted a "Bill Walton," they won a championship within 3 years.

MJ played the 2. While drafting flashy players sounds good, the Blazers drafted Clyde the year before, who became Ramsay's "prototype off gaurd," due to being fairly large for a 2 in that era. To get Clyde off the bench, the Blazers showed a freaking All-Star the door in Jim Paxon.

So as funny as people think the "they took Bowie over Jordan" schtick is, the Blkazers were TRADING AWAY all-star off gaurds at the time. Maybe you can let that sink in...they were TRADING all-stars at that position, to make room for the guy who was the HoF franchise player for the next 12 freaking years.


There is that.


And if you wanna talk about the 84 draft...WTF was Houston doing? I can see where the Blazers would be happy with their 2 in Drexler, who had an outstanding rookie campaign off the bench, but could Houston really have been that enamored with Mad Max that they'd pass on Jordan? Think about that -- the year before, they had just drafted the most dominant big man since Walton(who never had a cooperative body, but that's the inherent risk with any draft pick). On paper, Houston was set at center for years to come with Sampson. They just needed complimentary pieces to surround him with. While 84 may have been the greatest draft class in history, 5 players stood out from the rest, and 4 of them were bigs. MJ made perfect sense for the Rockets, and if not MJ, then Barkley would have been money. So what did they do? They drafted another center.

That makes no sense whatsoever. Sure, due to Sampson's long-term unreliability, it actually turned out to be a good move, but it sure the hell wasn't at the time...at the time, it was a fairly stupid move. Jordan or Barkley(or possibly Perkins) were their two obvious picks, and Hakeem was kind of a dumb one. The Blazers should have had a no-brainer at #2, which obviously would have been Hakeem, since Tom Owens wasn't quite cutting it at center. But Houston went and messed everything up.

The planets and stars lined up just right over time to make Houston's retarded draft move look genius, and the Blazers "wee need a center" pick look dumb...but let's introduce a little accuracy into the equation, and note that if it wasn't for multiple injuries down the road to Olajuwan and Bowie, it's the Rockets that look like dumbasses, and the Blazers looking like geniuses...and the Bulls left holding the injury-plagued Bowie.


And since history has been cruel to the guy...Bowie was an absolute beast on both ends of the floor on those rare occasions he was healthy. That dude used to take the floor for a couple of weeks out of the season with his legs taped up to where he couldn't run, and still do whatever he wanted to anyone he wanted. It just happened so rarely, it doesn't come up much.

And the "BWAHAHAHA YOU PASSED ON JORDAN" crowd never seems to mention that the Blazers parlayed Bowie into Buck Williams, who was key to future championship runs.


While it makes you sound almost-cool to do the "they passed on Jordan" dance, there's a lot more to that story than the casual dork seems to realize(unfortunately, I'm painfully familiar with it).


Go ahead and name one NBA scout that had Jordan pegged as the greatest player ever...go ahead and name him. Jordan was a "need a 2" pick, just like the vast majority of picks are. It's not that often a "you HAVE to take me" guy comes along, and Jordan wasn't one of them...


But Oden is...just like LeBron was...just like Duncan was(SA was doing OK at the big)...just like Shaq was.

Do we wish we had taken Jordan?

Duh.

Was it some huge tragic failure that they didn't draft him at the time?

No...the guy who played that position is entrenched in the HoF, last time I checked.


What would be a tragic draft day failure would be taking Durant. THAT would be a laugher.


The guy weighs 220 pounds and can't bench press 185...are you kidding me? Mr Freaking Charmin would run that guy out of the paint. But really, I'm sure the Dwight Howards, Ben Wallaces, and Greg Odens of the world will take it easy on Softy Durant, and cut him slack when he comes inside...no, really.


BTW -- in the predraft workouts, the ONLY thing Durant has done better than Oden is outside shooting. Oden has outscored him on every speed and agility test they have. They have the same verticle leap. There's not as big a ballhandling difference as you'd think....not that any team wants Oden bringing the ball up the floor.


Matter of fact, I believe every scout from every team thinks this one is a no-brainer.

There's a whole bunch of casual fans out there that can be described as "no-brainers" too, apparently.


Although there's several people out there that are celebrating the arraival of Durant -- most notably Kobe...since there will now be an NBA player that he can actually beat up.


185? Dude can't bench 185? I can bench 185 easily, and I don't even weigh 185, and my financial future sure the hell doesn't rest upon my ability to wow people with my bench press. Aaaron Brooks benched 185. Conley Jr benched 185. That big ol' dude Durant couldn't hoist 185...this must be some kind of practical joke.

[Dinsdale]

There's certain things that shouldn't be joked about. Drafting Please Don't Squeeze the Durant is one of them.