Bob Knight

Shine · Post by **Shine** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 8:23 pm

I couldn't let Coach Knight becoming the winningest collegiate basketball coach pass by without chiming in with a few thoughts.

- First off I put winningest collegiate basketball coach because that is what he'll be. Spare me the Pat Summit and chick from UT talk. When a coach does something in the NFL they don't put an asterick up and point out what some high school football coach has done and this is no different. The mens and womens game are on two WILDLY different levels and I don't need the politically correct crowd to shove some chick coach down my throat.

- It still makes me sad that this record is being set in the desolate West Texas landscape instead of in the heart of hoops country.

- Along with that, it still makes me sad that the "Knight-asshole" moments ARE a part of his legacy and will be included in every retrospective of his career.

- Coach Knight may hold this record but IMO it's only temporary as I have little doubts that his protege in Durham will ultimately put up the highest number when it's all said and done.

- I can't help but think back to years like 75 and 92 and ponder the "what ifs" about Coach Knight's legacy had he won the titles he should have those years. I think with a couple more titles under his belt there would be no doubt that he truly is the greatest basketball coach ever.

- He deserves credit for winning clean because the guys with more titles than him can't say the same.

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 9:07 pm

I still see Coach K passing him up. Of course, K is 60 years old. Who knows how long he plans on coaching. I know Knight will coach until the day he dies. Even winning 10 games a year while K is still winning 24 a year will make it hard to catch up.

Either way, you don't get 879 wins without being a good coach (unles you are that Grambling football coach that could go 1-10 and still keep his job).

Like you said, unfortunately (for him), he will also be remembered as one of the game's biggest assholes even though he did do a lot of good for the game and for the kids he coached. A person can do great things all their life, but one bad thing can sour all their accomplishments. In Knight's case, there were many more than just one bad thing...

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 9:08 pm

By the way, only when he is on his death bed will he actually be truly celebrated by the media...and he's going to hate every second of it.

King Crimson · Post by **King Crimson** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 3:34 am

Shine wrote:
- He deserves credit for winning clean because the guys with more titles than him can't say the same.

Wooden was dirty?

I like watching Knights teams play. i don't particularly like the guy even though i sort of understand were he's coming from--in a best case scenario. and i played for a baseball coach who was VERY KNight-esque and (at that level) had unparalleled success by riding your ass 24/7.

he embarassed OU's 01 Final Four team in Lubbock. Kelvin had no answer for the motion O that day--that was really impressive to me. the game, actually, was kind of disgusting to watch since Vitale and Musberger were giving each other RMK hand-jobs under the broadcast table all game.

M Club · Post by **M Club** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 4:31 am

Shine wrote:- First off I put winningest collegiate basketball coach because that is what he'll be. Spare me the Pat Summit and chick from UT talk. When a coach does something in the NFL they don't put an asterick up and point out what some high school football coach has done and this is no different. The mens and womens game are on two WILDLY different levels and I don't need the politically correct crowd to shove some chick coach down my throat.

summit shouldn't be mentioned b/c she's built her legacy in a sport that no one cares about, and by no one i mean the universities who are supposed to field teams. womens bball, until recently, was what, tennessee and uconn, a bit of usc? at least knight coached against teams actually committed to winning those games.

The Assassin · Post by **The Assassin** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 5:40 am

Bob Knight will have to wait until the New Mexico game to break the record. Because he aint gonna break it against my mighty UNLV Runnin Rebels! No fucking way do we become a footnote in the General's history!!!

Mustang · Post by **Mustang** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 3:23 pm

I read a one-page blurb in ESPN magazine by Steve Wulf ripping Coach Knight to shreds, with the most disturbing line being "....political correctness = progress." I almost vomited.

L45B · Post by **L45B** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 3:38 pm

IndyFrisco wrote:A person can do great things all their life, but one bad thing can sour all their accomplishments.

Same could be said for Woody Hayes.

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 3:58 pm

L45B wrote:
IndyFrisco wrote:A person can do great things all their life, but one bad thing can sour all their accomplishments.
Same could be said for Woody Hayes.

Agree...but in both Hayes' and Knight's cases, it was much more than one thing.

We've done this before, right?

TheJON · Post by **TheJON** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 6:06 pm

Knight probably would have 1,000 wins if he cheated and 20 titles. Dude never had the best talent but he always seemed to get 20+ wins and contend for conference titles on a regular basis. That's pretty amazing considering most of his years were in the Big-10.

Wooden may have cheated but I think we all know College Basketball is the most crooked sport in the world probably. Coach K is a known cheater. He openly speaks to recruits and recruits parents at places and times he is not supposed to by NCAA rules. And he does this in the open public for everyone to see. Not only that but he had a recruiting video errrrrr credit card commercial, a couple years ago. If that isn't a recruiting violation, then I don't know what is!

Cheating is pretty much acceptable in college hoops, unfortunately.

Mustang · Post by **Mustang** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 2:45 pm

Making a commercial is a violation? Better round up a TON of college coaches then. MANY have done commercials. I smell Lute Olson sniveling and whining. For the record, I got tired of those AMEX ads, not because it was Coach, but because they saturated broadcasts with them. How about mixing in Tiger?

And K cheats? Oh, I'm sure some of the kids are given certain favors and relaxed academic loads/standards but I'd have to think if he was cheating, he'd have been caught or at least investigated at some point in the last 20-odd years. Oh, wait.................it's that CBS, ESPN, Fox, NCAA-led Duke loving conspiracy that looks past all the cheating. Let's see here.......good coach, successful program where Final Fours are common, most games on national tv, very good academics, etc......yeah, I can see why no kid would want to go there. Any that do are certainly lured in by extras/gifts......cheating.

L45B · Post by **L45B** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 4:47 pm

Don't put too much thought into those comments, Mustang. You should know by now: If a team's mascot ain't the Hawkeyes then chances are, they cheat. According to one of the original founders of bitchdom.

Adelpiero · Post by **Adelpiero** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 11:00 pm

rack bobby knight

the general is one of best ever.

he taught kids how to be men, he taught them how to play basketball, and his kids graduated.

RadioFan · Post by **RadioFan** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 1:32 am

RACK Shine, for the most part -- a few disagreements with his take -- but for the most part, it was spot on.

That being said, and aside from certain players "needing" a father figure, to slap them around, both figuratively (which seems to be Knight's biggest legacy), and literally, which definitely is his biggest legacy, at least today ... and 10 years ago, but I digress.

BN is going to get his record win, probably tonight. For that, he deserves huge RACKS. His perseverance, his drive -- absolutely phenomenal. I think his wife also would deserve a rack, and if I were him I'd take a little viagra just for her, after he wins the damn thing.

OK, all that being said ...

I hate Bobby Knight. Always have, always will.

I HATE, during a close game on ESPN, between two teams with no connection to any that Knight has coached, Dick Vitals' references of "The General, Robert, Montgomery, Night," blah, blah, blah, blah ...

I hate the way Bob Knight has conducted himself on the court. The countless incidents -- the chair-throwing, in particular -- make him an icon of sports. And not in a good way. If you think otherwise, you are not a sports fan, you are simply a myopian or a moron, or both.

But most of all I HATE the way that he conducts himself in public. Pimping TV commercials in the "desolate West Texas landscape" as Shine put it. Fucking Pathetic.

This guy having the most wins in college baskteball is like Barry Bonds having the home run record.

Great. I guess.

Rack the win, Bobby. We're all not with you, not by a longshot.

King Crimson · Post by **King Crimson** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 4:53 am

well, it looks like the drama will go on another week. UNLV comes to play and wins in Lubbock.

I'm amazed (even still) how Vitale could spend most of the second half talking about Coach K.

The Assassin · Post by **The Assassin** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 5:07 am

The obvious rooting for Knight by the ESPN team was disgusting. suck his nuts harder Dukie V!

RACK my Runnin Rebels for refusing to be the answer to the Bob Knight trivia question.

12-2 and I dare say UNLV is BACK

Adelpiero · Post by **Adelpiero** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 11:53 am

The Assassin wrote:The obvious rooting for Knight by the ESPN team was disgusting. suck his nuts harder Dukie V!

RACK my Runnin Rebels for refusing to be the answer to the Bob Knight trivia question.

12-2 and I dare say UNLV is BACK

told u kreuger can coach. little faith you have. thr guy is a winner.

Screw_Michigan · Post by **Screw_Michigan** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 10:38 pm

my favorite BK moments:

* him dressing down wayne duke from center court in the 80s. knights obsession for a conspiracy theory behind bad big 11 officiating had to be his finest moment.

* the chair incident

* his obsessive hatred for LSU and dale brown.

* throwing the LSU fan in the trash bin at the spectrum

* "if rape is inevitable, lay back and enjoy it."

* "when my time on earth is done, and my activities have passed, i want that they bury me upside down, so my critics can kiss my ass." -- senior day 92 (i believe)

* his multiple media melts

* the cal cheney whipping.

RadioFan · Post by **RadioFan** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 12:00 am

Screw_Michigan wrote:* his multiple media melts

It got to be like clockwork during the NCAA tournament when he was still at Indiana. Hell, I'd hope they'd lose early just so I could see the inevitable meltdown that you just knew was coming. That one year, where he berated the NCAA official who said he wouldn't show up for the presser ... something along the lines of "Did anyone from Indiana tell you that?" Followed by much cussing and insults. Freaking classic. I cracked up the entire time.

What's weird is how many otherwise respectable coaches -- Roy Williams, Rick Barnes, Eddie Sutton, to name a few -- talk publically about how much they "respect" him. They're either lying or being PC, err, same diff, imo.

The Seer · Post by **The Seer** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 12:54 am

Believe the Heupel wrote:Yeah, Wooden was dirty. It's not talked about a lot, but it's pretty well-established he was giving dudes money.

It's pretty well established that you are gay. Maybe you're not. Should you have to prove that you're not? Unless you got the proof, don't throw around accusations, Nifong....even if it impairs your ability to elevate another guy close to the Wooden legend....

Screw_Michigan · Post by **Screw_Michigan** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 2:01 am

RadioFan wrote:
Screw_Michigan wrote:* his multiple media melts
It got to be like clockwork during the NCAA tournament when he was still at Indiana. Hell, I'd hope they'd lose early just so I could see the inevitable meltdown that you just knew was coming. That one year, where he berated the NCAA official who said he wouldn't show up for the presser ... something along the lines of "Did anyone from Indiana tell you that?" Followed by much cussing and insults. Freaking classic. I cracked up the entire time.

What's weird is how many otherwise respectable coaches -- Roy Williams, Rick Barnes, Eddie Sutton, to name a few -- talk publically about how much they "respect" him. They're either lying or being PC, err, same diff, imo.

rack the fuck out of that. his pressers were fucking legendary. i remember the 00 tournament like it was yesterday: BK's club getting its ass handed to it by pepperdine, i believe pepperdine was up by 40 at one point. you just knew he was going to fly off the deep end.

the best BK blast of all time was when he said to the media at a presser: "you know, i try to help you you young folks in this profession you've chosen that's a step above prostitution."

Screw_Michigan · Post by **Screw_Michigan** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 3:21 am

knight:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mb5dScAa1yM

Shine · Post by **Shine** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 3:46 am

TheJON wrote:Not only that but he had a recruiting video errrrrr credit card commercial, a couple years ago. If that isn't a recruiting violation, then I don't know what is!

I know I should just ignore the Jonsense here but...if the K commercial is a violation then what would you call the 'Knight School' reality TV show???

RadioFan wrote:This guy having the most wins in college baskteball is like Barry Bonds having the home run record.

I take exception to this comment. Unless you were going for the "both guys are assholes" angle, which I don't think you were. Bonds cheated his ass off to put up the numbers he has at the end of his career to prolly break the HR record. HUGE difference between a guy doing that to "earn" a record and a guy doing it 100% within the rules.

The Assassin wrote:The obvious rooting for Knight by the ESPN team was disgusting.

Why the fuck do you think the ESPN cameras and their "best" announcer were in town?? If that game wasn't a milestone game it would have been on ESPN Full Court at best. Don't be bitter that your team gained HUGE national exposure at the expense of the coverage being pro-TTU thanks to RMK.

Screw Michigan wrote: * "if rape is inevitable, lay back and enjoy it."

* the cal cheney whipping.

Ah, two of the "incidents" that get me most riled up because of how overblown they are. The rape comment was in an interview with Connie Chung where she was pressing him about how he deals with stress. He put that comment out there to mean he handles stress fine by not being stressed because why worry about something you can't control. And the instant the words were out of his mouth he realized how inappropriate they sounded and how out of context it was. He told Chung to stop filming and to not use that footage because of how he knew it would play in the press and with the public. Chung told him no problem and then of course used it because she knew it was ratings gold. Lying cunt.

And the whipping is far and away the most overblown Bob Knight story. Knight used the whip on multiple players on the team, including the white players. It was genius Knight to take the focus off his team and put it on himself so the team could go about their business unmolested by the media. Of course it worked as all anyone wanted to talk about was the whip. Calbert and all the players were totally and 100% cool with it which is why at the end of the Elite 8 game that year when IU was taking UCLA behind the woodshed Cheaney pretended to whip Knight with a towel.

remember the 00 tournament like it was yesterday: BK's club getting its ass handed to it by pepperdine, i believe pepperdine was up by 40 at one point. you just knew he was going to fly off the deep end.

Apparently your memory is a little fuzzy. Yes IU got their asses kicked by Pepperdine but there was absolutley NO incident or controversy in the postgame pc. I was living in DC at the time and had gone out to a bar to watch the game. It got so out of hand I left with like 10 minutes to go because I was sick to my stomach watching it. I got home just in time to catch the pc on ESPNEWS and when all Knight did was give Pepperdine praise for kicking their ass and downplay the role the Kirk Haston injury played in the romp ( and FWIW it played a HUGE role) even the anchors were disappointed because they were hoping for fireworks.

The Seer wrote:I have no vision when it comes to looking in the mirror and seeing the reflection of Sam Gilbert.

Shine · Post by **Shine** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 3:52 am

Oh and if you want THE best Bob Knight clip on YouTube, check this out. I still almost piss myself with laughter at about the two minute/two and a half mark, the second time he's in the sandtrap.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rm1j9FQjQQ

RadioFan · Post by **RadioFan** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 9:35 am

Shine wrote:
RadioFan wrote:This guy having the most wins in college baskteball is like Barry Bonds having the home run record.
I take exception to this comment. Unless you were going for the "both guys are assholes" angle, which I don't think you were. Bonds cheated his ass off to put up the numbers he has at the end of his career to prolly break the HR record. HUGE difference between a guy doing that to "earn" a record and a guy doing it 100% within the rules.

Actually, I was working the angle that they are both assholes in the sense that nobody with a straight face can possibly stand up and proudly say in front of the local Rotary or Boy Scout club, "'just like Bobby Knight' or 'just like Barry Bonds' is the greatest, you can be too" kind of bullshit.

And that's what it would be. Completely laughable and pathetic. OK, maybe not, but at the very least a few chuckles and a few rolling eyes, not to mention more than a few shaking heads, if anyone in their right mind (outside of the local Rotary clubs in Indiana, of course) were to actually try to express that shit seriously.

My point was both are assholes in the sense that nobody who's an honest, hard-working, ethical human can relate to them. Bonds because, as you pointed out, is a cheating asshole (allegedly), and Knight because he's an abusive asshole.

I'm not saying either of them aren't driven and don't work hard, on a personal level. But as far as either one of their "contributions" to their respective games, in the long-term, outside of their records ... debatable, at best.

And come to think of it, that's saying something, in and of itself, on the pathetic scale.

Rack Fu · Post by **Rack Fu** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 9:29 pm

Congrats to Coach Knight for #880.

Somewhere in North Carolina, Dean Smith is whining to someone.

RadioFan · Post by **RadioFan** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 6:46 am

Rack Fu wrote:Dean Smith ... whining

Link?

Your intimation is pretty far fetched, not to mention idiotic. Dean Smith whining is like you or me laying out personal info, publically, in here.

Shoalzie · Post by **Shoalzie** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 5:27 pm

RACK Coach Knight on 880 and RACK Texas Tech for playing "My Way" in the postgame ceremony...what a perfect song for a coach like him. His style may seem too tough or old school for some but look at the amount success he's had. Few guys in sports are as polarizing as he is...some guys think he's a bully and a jerk and some think he's just a great coach that does things his way and doesn't break the rules. When you strip away the media B.S. the guy is the type of guy you'd want to help mold your son into a man. He says a few off color things from time to time but he's the ultimate displinarian in his profession and doesn't let kids get away with stuff like others would. I applaud him for just being himself...he doesn't change to make other people happy. The guy wins by doing things he feels will make his players successful.

Mook · Post by **Mook** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 5:43 pm

Hats off to BK. You all know that I'm not his biggest fan, but this is quite an achievement. Good for him.

Shine · Post by **Shine** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 11:50 am

RadioFan wrote: But as far as either one of their "contributions" to their respective games, in the long-term, outside of their records ... debatable, at best.

And come to think of it, that's saying something, in and of itself, on the pathetic scale.

What's pathetic is that you have no clue as to how much of a contribution Bob Knight has made to the profession of coaching basketball. Try for a second to seperate your feelings on the man and realize how great of a COACH he is/was.

Shine · Post by **Shine** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 8:14 pm

FWIW, on an ESPN chat the other day with Jay Bilas I asked him if there was one game between two teams with equal talent who he'd want to coach his team. His answer, Bob Knight.

RadioFan · Post by **RadioFan** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 9:39 am

Shine wrote:What's pathetic is that you have no clue as to how much of a contribution Bob Knight has made to the profession of coaching basketball. Try for a second to seperate your feelings on the man and realize how great of a COACH he is/was.

No, what's pathetic is your myopia. Your attitude reminds me of the hundreds of morons who were marching on OU's campus when Barry Switzer was being "demonized" by the "Eastern Liberal Media." Seriously, there were hundreds, if not thousands, of OU students marching on campus holding "I (heart) OU," signs, over an embattled fucking coach for Christ's sake. Probably the most pathetic thing I've ever seen. Oh, and not to mention that there were state legislators taking personal preference time on the floor of the Oklahoma Senate and House to berate "the media's unfair treatment of Barry Switzer."

I saw it with my own eyes, when I was a student there, in 1989. Knight's saga at IU reminded me so much of Switzer at OU, it was like going back in time or a parellel bizzaro universe.

Save this bullshit about how great of a COACH he was. I've already said that he was/is a great coach, for those kids who needed it. What I'm taking about is the rest of us, who don't give a shit about IU basketball nor TT basketball, and especially not the TV idiots going on and on and on, as if they have one iota of a fucking clue, about anything.

Btw, Barry Bonds has the record, so does Knight. Having records means jack when you conduct yourself in a way in which your "legacy" is about taking drugs (allegedly) or otherwise being out of control in a public way.

Nice "legacy" was pretty much my only bitter, sarcastic point, not nice "coaching."

Shine · Post by **Shine** » Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:28 am

Puh-leeze. You called into question what "contribution" (your quotes, not mine) Bob Knight had to the sport of basketball. This shows you either:

A- haven't a fucking clue about the game of basketball or

B- can't seperate the MAN from the COACH

Because in terms of the game of basketball from a coaching standpoint, you know things like X's and O's and offensive/defensive gameplans and strategies, Bob Knight has made an ENORMOUS contribution to the game. He's a true student of the game and learned from some of the all-time greats (Bee, Newell, etc.) and his coaching clinics have helped mold tons of coaches. Take a look at my sig for a reminder.

There's ZERO myopia in saying that despite his moments of being an asshole and prolific use of profanity Bob Knight was/is an amazing basketball coach who's had a profound impact on the sport he loves.

Right now I'm only seeing one idiot going on and on as if he has one iota of a fucking clue about this topic.

RadioFan · Post by **RadioFan** » Thu Jan 11, 2007 3:25 am

Point taken, though I'd like to ask how many broadcasters you've heard and how many sports writers you've read referencing his strategies and innovations. More likely, it's only his "legacy," unlike guys like Tex Winter, Phog Allen and James freakin' Naismith.

Or are you trying to put him in that kind of company? If so, link me up. TIA.

Shine wrote:Take a look at my sig for a reminder.

Oh, OK. If Coach K says something, it must be true. That guy is an asshole too, btw, and if you'll allow this "idiot" to go on, I might even tell you a story about how "nice" he is.

Look, 3 NCs, a perfect season and his win total is nothing to sneeze at. The guy was obviously doing something right. Key word being "was." In the better part of the last 20 years, NOBODY talks about Knight in terms of his innovative X's and O's.

Shine · Post by **Shine** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 7:44 pm

Any coach running a version of the motion offense needs to send a thank you card to Coach Knight, so I'm not too worried about his legacy as a coaching innovator.

I agree with your point that not enough writers/broadcasters are talking about his coaching acumen, but that is the curse he's brought upon himself with his antics. Take those away and the story would be MUCH different. That's why I've been on you about seperating the coach from the person, because the coach is pretty damn impressive.

As for K, he's his mentor minus the public blowups. And I type that as a compliment.

RadioFan · Post by **RadioFan** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 4:08 am

Shine wrote:Any coach running a version of the motion offense needs to send a thank you card to Coach Knight, so I'm not too worried about his legacy as a coaching innovator.

Exactly.

Shine wrote:I agree with your point that not enough writers/broadcasters are talking about his coaching acumen, but that is the curse he's brought upon himself with his antics. Take those away and the story would be MUCH different. That's why I've been on you about seperating the coach from the person, because the coach is pretty damn impressive.

Fair enough.

I like a good argument every once in a while. I'll save my coach K rant for when he (undeservedly) passes Knight.

Mustang · Post by **Mustang** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 4:28 pm

"Undeservedly" passes Knight? Interesting. Did Knight deserve to pass Smith? Did Smith deserve to pass Rupp?

T1B

Bob Knight

Bob Knight

Re: Bob Knight

Re: Bob Knight