Vince or Reggie?

Mississippi Neck · Post by **Mississippi Neck** » Tue Feb 14, 2006 3:12 am

In my brief (hopefully) tenure here in Houston, you cannot go a day without the great draft debate of Vince Young or Reggie Bush being bandied about.

To me, its a tough one. Carr has not shown much in the last 4 years, but has he really had much to work with?...and on the other hand, Vince Young carried the Longhorns to a championship, is a local product, and is a proven leader.

My guess is the Texans will take Bush, and try to replicate another TX triplets with Carr, Bush, and Andre Johnson. Kubiak is a good QB tutor and a good offensive coach.

For my money (and its not), I'd take Vince. The guy has really impressed me this last year. Get Vince, keep Carr for now, use Dominick Davis, and bring VY along slowly.

Though Bush wouldn't be bad either..arrgghh.

Weigh in at your convenience..

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Tue Feb 14, 2006 3:30 am

I don't see the Texans drafting V. Young.

They picked up Carr's option and extended him through '08, paying heavily to do so.

So they're then gonna bring in the local legend to breathe down his neck, and in the process, get the fans stirred up every time he tosses a pick...?

I can't see that happening.

They'll either pick Bush or trade down to try to fill their numerous needs.

I don't think they should have picked up Carr's option.

For what he's shown, they overpaid to keep him around for 3 more years.

He's a tough kid, and he's not had a line to protect him, but I also don't think that he's distinguished himself near enough to warrant being given the lucrative extention that he was given.

I think the Texans will live to regret that decision.

For a lesser amount of money, yes, he should have been kept.

drummer · Post by **drummer** » Tue Feb 14, 2006 3:55 am

One thing that doesn't favor Young for HOU is that Young will have a longer learning curve due to the Longhorn offense he ran . HOU needs to start to be a legitimate contender thses next 2 years , and Bush will help the offense more than Young being on the bench , behind Carr , who won't mentor a QB competing for his job ( and Carr isn't a veteran QB to do that , like say Kitna was to Palmer ) . Carr still has some bugs to work out as far as mechanics , and Young has to start from scratch with his . Plus , as pops said , Carr just signed a new deal , so that rules Young out also .

HOU may trade the #1 as well , since they have a lot of holes to fill on that O-line , and a few other positions as well .

rozy · Post by **rozy** » Tue Feb 14, 2006 1:34 pm

1 single game sent this town into a frenzy of stupidity.

For 2 months everyone cheered the Texans to lose where we could draft Bush. Then came the Rose Bowl and everyone lost their brains. Well, everyone but the ones that count.

Young is no longer a viable option. And listening to the local T'Sips whine has made me grin wildly over the last several day.

We will now either draft Bush or wait for the Jets, Packers, or Raiders to make us one of those unrefusable offers.

Personally, I am ready for the draft to be over with where all this VY (NOTHING against him) talk can finally go away.

Funny how one day a guy is the next GaleSayersMarshallFaulkBarrySandersWarrickDunn mixed clone bag and the next day he is not desired as much as a guy that couldn't hit the broad side of KCPaul's cockgarage at 25 yards.

Shoalzie · Post by **Shoalzie** » Tue Feb 14, 2006 1:56 pm

Both will be great pros but Bush will make an instant impact...running backs are usually able to come right in their rookie year and be star players quickly. I see him being a player in the mold of Tomlinson or Westbrook. Young will be a great QB in a couple years. From watching him the last two years, he's shown that he's got "it". It's one thing to be able make big plays but to carry his team on his back and perform in the clutch is something you don't see from every QB.

If I had to pick one...it depends on what is on my team already. If I already had a QB of the future, I take Bush. If I don't have a QB, I definitely take Young over Bush.

Mississippi Neck · Post by **Mississippi Neck** » Tue Feb 14, 2006 2:17 pm

I can't disagree with much that has been said, except the "one game" comment. For me, Vince has stood out since the Rose Bowl vs. Michigan.

I don't see the Texans trading the pick away unless they get a "Hershcel Walker" type offer. That's not likely to happen. Picking Bush would be a smart move. Then spend the rest of the picks on O line..

jiminphilly · Post by **jiminphilly** » Tue Feb 14, 2006 2:19 pm

Shoalzie wrote: I see him being a player in the mold of Tomlinson or Westbrook.

I'm a huge fan of Westbrook and even I know he's not on the level of Tomlinson. You're either compare Bush to Tomlinson or you don't. I don't think Bush compares to Tomlinson. I think he'll be a lot like Westbrook only faster.

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Tue Feb 14, 2006 2:54 pm

Vince or Reggie?

Neither.

sin

D'Brickashaw Ferguson

Shoalzie · Post by **Shoalzie** » Tue Feb 14, 2006 3:17 pm

BSmack wrote:
Vince or Reggie?
Neither.

sin

D'Brickashaw Ferguson

Depends on what your team needs. The Texans should go after some offensive line help and trade down to get Ferguson.

Cicero · Post by **Cicero** » Tue Feb 14, 2006 5:47 pm

I would trade w/ the Jets at #4 and get their 2nd round pick and a 2nd rounder the next year and Take D'Brick.

Mississippi Neck · Post by **Mississippi Neck** » Tue Feb 14, 2006 9:11 pm

BSmack wrote:
Vince or Reggie?
Neither.

sin

D'Brickashaw Ferguson

Nah, when you have a chance to take a special player, who scores TD's, you gotta go with that guy. You can get O line help somewhere else IMHO.

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Tue Feb 14, 2006 9:53 pm

Mississippi Neck wrote:
BSmack wrote:
Vince or Reggie?
Neither.

sin

D'Brickashaw Ferguson

Nah, when you have a chance to take a special player, who scores TD's, you gotta go with that guy. You can get O line help somewhere else IMHO.

Reggie Bush has scored as many TDs in the NFL as you or I.

The Texans have a pretty good TD producer in Dominack Davis. If they surounded him with a competent O line, he'd be good for 15+ TDs.

drummer · Post by **drummer** » Tue Feb 14, 2006 10:39 pm

mvscal wrote:
Mississippi Neck wrote: You can get O line help somewhere else IMHO.
That's pretty much what they've been saying for the last four years and it doesn't seem to working out too well.

Yep . Just ask David Carr .

Mississippi Neck · Post by **Mississippi Neck** » Tue Feb 14, 2006 10:47 pm

BSmack wrote:
Mississippi Neck wrote:
BSmack wrote: Neither.

sin

D'Brickashaw Ferguson

Nah, when you have a chance to take a special player, who scores TD's, you gotta go with that guy. You can get O line help somewhere else IMHO.
Reggie Bush has scored as many TDs in the NFL as you or I.

The Texans have a pretty good TD producer in Dominack Davis. If they surounded him with a competent O line, he'd be good for 15+ TDs.

And DBrickashaw has made as many blocks as you or I...

Dominack is good..he's not a breakaway like Bush could be.

Mississippi Neck · Post by **Mississippi Neck** » Tue Feb 14, 2006 10:49 pm

mvscal wrote:
Mississippi Neck wrote: You can get O line help somewhere else IMHO.
That's pretty much what they've been saying for the last four years and it doesn't seem to working out too well.

Yep, agreed. CAsserly should've been fired too. Giving him extra picks may not be helpful either.

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Tue Feb 14, 2006 11:09 pm

Mississippi Neck wrote:[And DBrickashaw has made as many blocks as you or I...

You were the one that went down the road of "potential", not I.

Dominack is good..he's not a breakaway like Bush could be.

Bush will be nothing of the kind if surrounded by the lack of talent the Texans were this year. Davis, on the other hand, has averaged over 4 yards a carry with this group of stiffs.

Mississippi Neck · Post by **Mississippi Neck** » Tue Feb 14, 2006 11:14 pm

BSmack wrote:
You were the one that went down the road of "potential", not I.

That's pretty much the road you have to travel, like it or not, when discussing draft picks, wouldn't you say?

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Tue Feb 14, 2006 11:17 pm

Mississippi Neck wrote:
BSmack wrote:
Mississippi Neck wrote:You were the one that went down the road of "potential", not I.
That's pretty much the road you have to travel, like it or not, when discussing draft picks, wouldn't you say?

There is also the road called NEED. Something Casserley has been woefuly ignorant of these past 4 years. I don't know. Maybe he thinks Boselli is still anchoring the Texans O-Line?

Dumbass · Post by **Dumbass** » Tue Feb 14, 2006 11:17 pm

I'd chime in if I wanted to parrot, B.

Did I just fucking say that?

Mississippi Neck · Post by **Mississippi Neck** » Wed Feb 15, 2006 10:19 pm

BSmack wrote:
Mississippi Neck wrote:
BSmack wrote: That's pretty much the road you have to travel, like it or not, when discussing draft picks, wouldn't you say?
There is also the road called NEED. Something Casserley has been woefuly ignorant of these past 4 years. I don't know. Maybe he thinks Boselli is still anchoring the Texans O-Line?

I had to endure many a woeful Texan game here locally. I saw numerous holes opened up for Davis by that O line. He did not make a lot of yardage on his own. Bush, or an explosive speed back, may have made some huge gains out of those plays.

In Houston, they seem to think that Pitts can handle left tackle. That's how clueless Casserly is. Let's forego rationale for a moment, and get back to the original question of this thread...Vince or Reggie? Either or...no neithers please. :)

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Wed Feb 15, 2006 10:25 pm

Mississippi Neck wrote:
BSmack wrote:
Mississippi Neck wrote: There is also the road called NEED. Something Casserley has been woefuly ignorant of these past 4 years. I don't know. Maybe he thinks Boselli is still anchoring the Texans O-Line?
I had to endure many a woeful Texan game here locally. I saw numerous holes opened up for Davis by that O line. He did not make a lot of yardage on his own. Bush, or an explosive speed back, may have made some huge gains out of those plays.

In Houston, they seem to think that Pitts can handle left tackle. That's how clueless Casserly is. Let's forego rationale for a moment, and get back to the original question of this thread...Vince or Reggie? Either or...no neithers please. :)

Vince Young and Reggie Bush are both decent #5-10 picks. As of right now they are overrated.

Mississippi Neck · Post by **Mississippi Neck** » Wed Feb 15, 2006 10:39 pm

I said no neithers...jsut for that...Larry Brown..Larry Brown :P

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Wed Feb 15, 2006 10:49 pm

Mississippi Neck wrote:I said no neithers...jsut for that...Larry Brown..Larry Brown :P

He's doing a horrible job with the Knicks. They should fire him.

Mississippi Neck · Post by **Mississippi Neck** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 12:04 am

Touche'

Leinert
Ferguson
Williams
Hawk

Who else would u take over Bush\Young??

Dumbass · Post by **Dumbass** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 7:50 pm

BSmack wrote:Reggie Bush are both decent #5-10 picks. As of right now they are overrated.

Limitless.

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 11:22 pm

Dumbass wrote:
BSmack wrote:Reggie Bush are both decent #5-10 picks. As of right now they are overrated.
Limitless.

Are you telling me there are not 5 players in the NFL draft whose careers will grade out better than Vince Young or Reggie Bush?

Think very carefuly.

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 11:28 pm

Anyone can toss a comment like that out there, sure.

Go ahead and name some names then, Bri.

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 11:38 pm

poptart wrote:Anyone can toss a comment like that out there, sure.

Go ahead and name some names then, Bri.

There's a guy on Bush's own team that is a better prospect at RB than Bush. He's Donte Hall with an extra 20 lbs. From an NFL standpoint, I'm not blown away.

As for Vince Young, you shouldn't trust anybody who's taged with a potential #1 draft pick label after one game. There's a reason Young was a mid 1st round pick before January and he'll show it soon enough.

Dumbass · Post by **Dumbass** » Sat Feb 18, 2006 1:53 am

BSmack wrote:
poptart wrote:Anyone can toss a comment like that out there, sure.

Go ahead and name some names then, Bri.
There's a guy on Bush's own team that is a better prospect at RB than Bush. He's Donte Hall with an extra 20 lbs. From an NFL standpoint, I'm not blown away.

As for Vince Young, you shouldn't trust anybody who's taged with a potential #1 draft pick label after one game. There's a reason Young was a mid 1st round pick before January and he'll show it soon enough.

Yea, I was going to go into what pop said but did not have the time when I first responded.

Come on, man. If you're going to pull that one, you need to qualify it. There is no way in hell after what we saw that guy do all season on his way to the Heisman that you can say he's over rated and then deserving of falling to 5-10. If he is, then through your careful thinking, you should be able to give us your top 10 list and the 5 guys you would draft before him. We'll see if it lasts longer than your Super Bowl photos before getting shredded.

Vince Young is easy. We know what his question marks are and only time will tell. That is why I removed him from your quote. IMO without a gun like Vick the kid is in a deep hole and as you said, there is a reason he was a mid rounder back before The Rose Bowl. He wasn't slinging it like Leinart was and we have seen the difficulties involved in trying to convert a raw talent like him to the NFL game. He's gifted but he has concerns. Reggie Bush though, the only thinking you could maybe throw out there is that maybe these guys are simple products of their line because all three were able to produce but still, what else do you have to go on based off of what we saw?

Donte Hall?
In the words of The Virgin Mary, "Come again?"
(I love that line).

Where was Donte Hall when Bush and uh that guy Lendel White were tearing defenses up? Was he in the locker room? Bush and White are on the same level, they're both exceptional prospects when inserted into the right system. If you want someone to be able to break ankles and take passes in the flat, you have a guy. If you want someone with a bit more potential to abuse D-lines and soften up the center maybe you go with the guy that packs a different punch. Any way you look at it, there isn't must justification for passing on Bush to the 6th pick or beyond based off of their "rating". Team need at the draft position? You are talking a different argument then.

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Sat Feb 18, 2006 3:11 am

Dumbass wrote:Come on, man. If you're going to pull that one, you need to qualify it. There is no way in hell after what we saw that guy do all season on his way to the Heisman that you can say he's over rated and then deserving of falling to 5-10.

Doug Flutie and Gino Torretta won Heisman Trophys. It is pretty simple. Reggie Bush is not physicaly cut out to be an every down back and he's not an every down wide reciever period. You give him the ball 25 times a game and he'll go down before the season is done. Therefore, the only way Reggie Bush is going to make any kind of direct impact in the NFL is to be on a team that already has talent around him and can use him for his gamebreaking speed without expecting him to be a workhorse back.

As for running backs, I would take Lendale White and DeAngelo Williams ahead of Bush. As for all players, there's too many to list.

Mississippi Neck · Post by **Mississippi Neck** » Sat Apr 15, 2006 2:11 pm

BSmack wrote:There's a guy on Bush's own team that is a better prospect at RB than Bush. He's Donte Hall with an extra 20 lbs.

More like 40 lbs now....

Felix · Post by **Felix** » Sat Apr 15, 2006 3:20 pm

Mississippi Neck wrote:
BSmack wrote:There's a guy on Bush's own team that is a better prospect at RB than Bush. He's Donte Hall with an extra 20 lbs.

More like 40 lbs now....

Odd thing, as White's weight grows, Denver's interest in him diminishes proportionatley......

Mississippi Neck · Post by **Mississippi Neck** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 9:22 pm

I'm guessing the woeful Texans are rethinking taking Mario over Vince.

Dumbass · Post by **Dumbass** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 9:26 pm

Yea, must be thinking about those 4 TDs Reggie got last week.

LOL.

Oh, did I say I have Maurice Drew in my keeper league? Hey, a couple of wussito Pac-10 boys too.

WOOOOOO!

Yes, I am drunk now and about to take a rip!

Mississippi Neck · Post by **Mississippi Neck** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 9:29 pm

Ahh. Nice call on Jville.

Dumbass · Post by **Dumbass** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 3:23 am

I can see the MNF ads already.

This Week, Young Bush!

See it here live, Monday Night.