This sat., while you're watching the hype on Dook-UNC

MSUFAN · Post by **MSUFAN** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 3:24 am

Remember this stunning fact.

After sat. game vs. UNC, guess how many of the 30 games Dook has played have been against top 25 RPI teams?

4

Yep.

http://teamrankings.com/ncb/8powerratings.php3

Just to compare. Not jocking our guys, but. Mi. State has played

12 !!!

This is what tears me up, when I see all this Dook ballsucking. They fucking don't PLAY anyone! My God, at LEAST you guys could schedule some fucking top 25 teams!? Eh?! What's wrong with losing around 5 or 7 games!? So what. You settle for a #3 or 4 possibly. What difference does it make?

Christ, why do they always groom themselves for that high seed?

Oh, wait. I forgot. When your Dook, you want that high seed. Because then, not only do you get the "Jersey" calls, you also get a free ride to the Sweet- 16. I just don't get why K doesn't challenge his guys more, s'all.

Anyone?

[side note] - Of the 5 freeking espn channels, they will only have to show a Dook-UNC promo 21 times per hour, to reach 5,000 promos for that overblown series. 5, freaking thousand promos! Only 21 times per hour per channel. (Next 47 hours from now)

And the Fucking K Kommercials! Get off it!

Sick of Dook yet!?

FOUR fucking top 25 RPI games!?

Shine · Post by **Shine** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 3:30 am

Props Babs, I guess.

I'm now more annoyed by your pissing and moaning about Dook than I am the media love affair with Dook.

Mr T · Post by **Mr T** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 4:11 am

ACC/Big 10 challenge says what.....

Cicero · Post by **Cicero** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 4:12 am

Ummm Duke is 9-0 vs teams in the Top 25. They have beaten texas and memphis out of conference and away from cameron. They also have 2 losses to your 9 losses. I guess Mich St loses to every good team they play.

helmet · Post by **helmet** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 2:26 pm

Pomeroy ratings say Duke played the 17th toughest non-conference schedule. MSU had the 142nd toughest.

Pomeroy ratings say Duke has played the 3rd toughest overall schedule. MSU has played the 32nd toughest.

RPI (from Pomeroy's site, I assume it's not much different from the "official" RPI) says that Duke played the 6th toughest non-conf schedule. MSU was 77th.

RPI says that Duke played the 2nd toughest overall schedule. MSU was 7th.

Sagarin says that Duke played the 3rd toughest overall schedule. MSU was 12th.

That's five objective measures of schedule strength. Duke tops Michigan State in each of them. So you can cherry pick the number of games against top 10, top 15, top 25, or top 42 - whatever floats your boat- but the bottom line is that Duke hasn't played a cupcake schedule no matter how much you whine about it.

the_ouskull · Post by **the_ouskull** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 2:36 pm

Babs = Bitch = Owned

the_ouskull

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 2:41 pm

I guess if State was anyone's rival, they would pimp the hell out of them, too.

MuchoBulls · Post by **MuchoBulls** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 3:52 pm

Cicero wrote:Ummm Duke is 9-0 vs teams in the Top 25. They have beaten texas and memphis out of conference and away from cameron. They also have 2 losses to your 9 losses. I guess Mich St loses to every good team they play.

Memphis is severely overrated. C-USA is not much of a conference any more.

The RPI is a better indicator of how good a team is and what type of schedule they play. You notice that when they show these bubble teams RPI and SOS are up there. They don't have records over Top 25 teams in there at all.

I wouldn't be surprised by the information from Babs. The ACC is down this season. MSU's abundance of top 25 RPI games comes from the Big 10, which is having a great year as a whole.

Shoalzie · Post by **Shoalzie** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 4:02 pm

ESPN does go way overboard with Duke-UNC. I don't think they need to break out the Cameron Crazy Cam on ESPNU. We get it...they're bitter rivals.

As for State's schedule versus Duke's...it's not Duke's fault the ACC is down. State has just as little control over the Big Ten's strength but the fact that they've lost 8 times in conference actually helps their strength of schedule because their opponents have better records as a result. Keep reachin' Babs...State is going out of this tournament like a lamb. If they played the entire tournament at Breslin, maybe I'd give them a chance but these guys piss themselves when they leave their home gym.

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Fri Mar 03, 2006 4:18 pm

Keep running your mouths, you regular season pimpin' biaatches. I heard the same things last year during the reg season and look where State ended up.

Shoalzie · Post by **Shoalzie** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 4:39 pm

MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote:Keep running your mouths, you regular season pimpin' biaatches. I heard the same things last year during the reg season and look where State ended up.

You're post are sounding too much like Babs'...I think we need to get you some professional help.

By the way, you weren't in as bad of shape last year. The only knock I had on State was they just weren't as good as Illinois. They lost only 3 times in conference and only once away from home. This season is a completely different animal...this year's team isn't nearly as deep as last year.

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Fri Mar 03, 2006 8:04 pm

Shoalzie wrote:
MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote:Keep running your mouths, you regular season pimpin' biaatches. I heard the same things last year during the reg season and look where State ended up.

You're post are sounding too much like Babs'...I think we need to get you some professional help.

Although almost 100% of it is due to Babs, the fact remains that State probably takes it harder than any other team in this forum, and I witness that on a daily basis. At some point I gotta stick up for them because there isn't anyone else here to do that.

Shoalzie · Post by **Shoalzie** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 5:15 pm

I respect State's program and Izzo but I'm just not as impressed with this team as in past years. If it wasn't for Babs, I wouldn't have a problem with serving compliments their way when they deserve it. He is the type of obnoxious fan that makes it difficult to compliment his respective school. Especially one that spends more time bashing other teams than he does praising his own...even when they don't deserve it. It's been a nut-crusher of a season in the Big Ten but they didn't seperate themselves from the rest of the teams like I expected. The Buckeyes are the class of the conference with Iowa and Illinois in the second tier. State is probably the fourth best team in the league right now. They three tremendous players that could carry the Spartans in the tournament but if they are held in check, I don't like their depth to help pick up the slack. The fact they're hovering around .500 in the Big Ten tells me they're battled-tested but just not as successful as past years. Any of the Big Ten teams in the dance have a chance to make a run but I wouldn't call any of them great. With the balance in college hoops, I think at least half of the field of 65 has a puncher's chance to win 6 in a row in three weeks.

Terry in Crapchester · Mon Mar 06, 2006 12:35 pm

Shine wrote:Props Babs, I guess.

I'm now more annoyed by your pissing and moaning about Dook than I am the media love affair with Dook.

Rack.

And fwiw, imho it's more of a media love affair with the ACC in general than with Duke in particular. UNC gets the same sort of treatment when they're on top. It went to Duke this year because Duke was on top.

Hell, even Maryland got into the act the year they won it all, albeit to a much lesser degree than Duke or UNC gets it.

MSUFAN · Post by **MSUFAN** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 4:20 am

Cicero wrote:Ummm Duke is 9-0 vs teams in the Top 25. They have beaten texas and memphis out of conference and away from cameron. They also have 2 losses to your 9 losses. I guess Mich St loses to every good team they play.

Dude. Greenfield uses the virtual exact RPI system that the Committee does. He has you team playing a total of 4 games vs. top 25 RPI.

Losing the last one to UNC rather handily at Cameron! And FSU is like #79 !!!!!

Meanwhile, Mi. St. continually plays top 25 opponants week in and week out. Even Mich. was a top 25 RPI for a week! Iowa, Ill. Wisc. Gonzaga. Ohio St. BCU (at the time) Wichita State. Indiana. Just to name SOME!!!

And you got the gall to say Dook plays a better overall schedule?! Ha-ha-h-ah-ah-ha !!!!!! ALL games!? -- Uh, NO! Which conference again is hands down the toughest!!!? - Yeah, the Big-10!!!!!!

When one team plays 12 games vs. top 25 RPI teams, (As Greenfield has pointed out, that his RPI calculations are as close to the NCAA's as humanly possible) and the other plays 4, it's a no brainer that Duke utilizes it's name, and positions it's schedule to it's favor. And it's been going on for YEARS now!

PLAY somebody!!!!!!!!! Ther's nothing bad about losing 5-8 games before the Dance!!! Believe us!!!! Koach K !!!!!!

MSUFAN · Post by **MSUFAN** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 4:37 am

Schoalzie. Schoalzie. Schoalzie.

Has my Weasel fan not learned anything from watching their big brothers program the last 7+ years?

Like the fact that Izzo is 23 - 7 in the Dance. 2nd only to K.

4 god damn Final Fours in the last 7 years!? 5 Elite Eights, the last 8?!

And what did everyone say last year? "Uh, State has no Point Guard!" - and what happened? A FRESHMAN balled our team to the Final Four. AND had the Champs, UNC down by 5 at the Half!!

This year, now we're all hearing about depth. Or Bench.

Look. I'm gonna post this one last time for you all.
MSU has THREE starters averaging OVER 18 ppg. No one, - NO ONE in the Nation has that. And you all saw our FRESHMAN PG last year. He's now 30 games older! - That makes a serious, talented CORE group of FOUR guys.

All they need is just a few QUALIFIED Officials on the floor, and a bit of tenacity from one, Mr. Matt Trannon. The rest!? It's all gravy. Maquise Gray. Goran Sutan. Travis Walton. Even DELCO, will only have to hold serve for a couple minutes at a time.
I can't WAIT until we get back out of the Big-10's grasp. back onto NEUTRAL floors, with improved officiating.

If OSU is the cream of the B10, (we beat them at Columbus, they beat us when they got super hot from the Three line the last 10:00 of our loss at Breslin.) I'd say MSU is right there with OSU. In fact, I think BOTH can make it to Indy!!!

Lets get this shit started!!!!

Cicero · Post by **Cicero** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 4:40 am

Big 10 is overrated if you ask me. Good conference and except for this year, I feel they are alwas third behind the Big East and ACC. Every year the ACC whips their ass in the Challenge and yet they always get more teams in the tourney. Same goes during football season.

MSUFAN · Post by **MSUFAN** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 5:00 am

http://teamrankings.com/ncb/8powerratings.php3

Fact: If you look above ^ and just take the top 40 RPI ranked teams. Mich State has played a total of over HALF it's games vs. that top 40 !!!!

16 freegin games!!! out of our 30 total!!!!

That's not grooming your seeding. Padding your stats. Resting on your "name".

That's called a PROGRAM for any of you HS studs reading this shithole. Under Izzo, you get BETTER. You work! You improve! Check the NBA stat sheets.

Zach Randolph.
Eric Snow.
Charlie Bell
Jason Richardson
Morris Peterson.

All from just the last 5-6 years! ('cept Snow. He was leaving as Izzo was named coach, replacing Jud Heathcote. But Izzo was a 10 year assistant under Jud !!!!)

And soon, TWO first rounders in Davis and Ager!!!
Maybe, just maybe even Brown!!!!

Like I said. PLAY somebody, and you can only get better!

Sky · Post by **Sky** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 3:11 pm

MSUFAN wrote:http://teamrankings.com/ncb/8powerratings.php3

Fact: If you look above ^ and just take the top 40 RPI ranked teams. Mich State has played a total of over HALF it's games vs. that top 40 !!!!

16 freegin games!!! out of our 30 total!!!!

That's not grooming your seeding. Padding your stats. Resting on your "name".

That's called a PROGRAM for any of you HS studs reading this shithole. Under Izzo, you get BETTER. You work! You improve! Check the NBA stat sheets.

Zach Randolph.
Eric Snow.
Charlie Bell
Jason Richardson
Morris Peterson.

All from just the last 5-6 years! ('cept Snow. He was leaving as Izzo was named coach, replacing Jud Heathcote. But Izzo was a 10 year assistant under Jud !!!!)

And soon, TWO first rounders in Davis and Ager!!!
Maybe, just maybe even Brown!!!!

Like I said. PLAY somebody, and you can only get better!

Man, MSU is almost as good as Iowa football, in fact both of these teams should just play in the NBA and NFL. They are better than any college team around.

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 4:05 pm

Babs, does it get hard trying to talk out of both sides of your mouth, whilst sucking on Izzo? This time last year you were telling all of us how meaningless RPI was, and how the committee should, and likely is, getting away from using it as a determining factor.

Just curious.

Mustang · Post by **Mustang** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 6:17 pm

I swear, I always thought the best basketball team was the one that won the final game of the season, not the one that has the toughest schedule.

Shoalzie · Post by **Shoalzie** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 1:52 am

Babs--Let me blow your mind for a moment. Losing actually improves your strength of schedule. Also, check the RPI on Pomeroy's site...Duke has the #1 schedule in America. State is #8.

http://www.kenpom.com/rpi.php?y=2006&s=6

Remember when they beat Texas and Memphis early on? Yeah, that counts more than losing to Gonzaga. Even if Duke lost those games, they'd still have the toughest schedule because Texas and Memphis would have a better record as a result. You win, you hurt your strength schedule. Get it? 8 teams from the Big Ten are in the top 30 in schedule strength...coincidence? Yes, the Big Ten is tough this year but you don't get style points for losing and you definitely don't get a lot of style points when you only go .500 in conference. By State losing 8 of 16 conference games, they strengthen the record of their opponents...thus, an inflated schedule strength.

In most years, I wouldn't be killing State this much going into the tournament because they do produce magic in the tournament. But they did go .500 in the conference...when was the last time that happened? Not in this millenium, if I'm not mistaken. This is not a very strong and deep Michigan State team like in the past. If you make it out of the first weekend of the tournament, consider it an accomplishment.

MSUFAN · Post by **MSUFAN** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 1:55 am

Killian wrote:Babs, does it get hard trying to talk out of both sides of your mouth, whilst sucking on Izzo? This time last year you were telling all of us how meaningless RPI was, and how the committee should, and likely is, getting away from using it as a determining factor.

Just curious.

The answer is no, dummy. You got your incestuous flames mixed up, girl.

Simply pointing out a basic fact.

Dook rests on its laurels. Plain and simple. They allow themselves to remember that they're "Duke". That's what irks me.

They selectively play the tougher end of their schedule, towards the final 10 games. And, they NEVER leave Cameron, the first 12 !!! When they do, it's always in some neutral arena! And they play "down" the tougher competition in order to secure higher seeds. Hence free pass to Sw-16 rounds. I've seen this shit go on for years now. And it's just annoying.

Why not schedule more top 25 rated teams? That's a fair question!
Four damn games!? Compared to MSU's 11 or more! You can't deny that there's a distinct difference in the two coaches mindsets. One plays for Show. The other plays to Know.

I fully expect another 3rd round defeat of Duke. I really do. They might even get upset the first weekend! Not tested in tough battles enough.

MSUFAN · Post by **MSUFAN** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 2:00 am

choalzie wrote:"You win, you hurt your strength schedule. Get it?"

What?!

WRONG again, Schoalz!

If you WIN, and IF the teams you beat ALSO tend to win; that means they were fairly good teams. Hence they would be RANKED in the top 25 rpi. You twit!!!!!!!!!!! OMG!!

Duke's opponants are NOT!!!!!! (Top 25) Meaning they haven't went on to "win" as many as.................................

State's ARE!!!!!

Nice KYOA much!!!!??

Oh, and btw - Pomeranian is an idiot.
Greenfield and Sagarin are FAR more respected and acknowledged as experts. Get real.

Adelpiero · Post by **Adelpiero** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 2:37 am

Web Page Name

Shine · Post by **Shine** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 3:22 am

Huh, all this time I thought Dook winning the ACC championship every year was what got them their high seeding. :? :?

Shoalzie · Post by **Shoalzie** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 5:08 am

MSUFAN wrote:
choalzie wrote:"You win, you hurt your strength schedule. Get it?"
What?!

WRONG again, Schoalz!

I figured you wouldn't wouldn't understand that concept. Math was never your strong suit.

Strength of schedule is based on opposition success...it has nothing to do with how you do against those teams. If you want further proof...who's #2 behind Duke in S.O.S.? Baylor

When you beat a team head-to-head, that team's record is worse than before and knocks down your strength of schedule. If they win, your record gets worse but with that team winning, their record improves and they're considered a more quality opponent on your schedule. In essense, you hurt their strength of schedule by losing.

I don't know, maybe if I bold a few words, put a few words in all caps and post a picture of Shannon Brown, you might understand a little better.

It's simple math. Who is a better opponent? A team that is 25-5 or a team that is 24-6? It doesn't make a huge difference but when if you lose to said opponent to give them one less win, they're considered a more quality opponent and it boosts your strength of schedule. Considering State lost 10 games...that's 8 more wins your opposition had during the regular season than Duke, who had only 2 losses. Yet, Duke still ended up with the best strength of schedule in the country. They must be playing some pretty darn good teams considering they put 27 losses on their opponents this year compared to only 20 by State.

The bottom line is, State has been an udder disappointment overall. You have three all-conference caliber players...that something at least. You're out of the Top 25 in both polls, you lost 10 games and you finished tied for 6th in the conference with a .500 record along with your hated rival and a team that hasn't been to the dance in quite a while. Now, tell me how that makes you Final Four team? Their not playing possum...they just aren't that great of a team. Deal with it...

And yes, if you get out of the first weekend of the tournament, consider it an accomplishment. Considering you're probably looking at a #6 or #7 seed unless you win the Big Ten tourney. You'll get mowed over by a #2 or #3 seed in the second round game and Izzo and the boys will be back in East Lansing wondering what hit 'em. Plus, you can look forward to an even weaker team next year since Davis and Ager are gone after this year.

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 2:29 pm

MSUFAN wrote:
Killian wrote:Babs, does it get hard trying to talk out of both sides of your mouth, whilst sucking on Izzo? This time last year you were telling all of us how meaningless RPI was, and how the committee should, and likely is, getting away from using it as a determining factor.

Just curious.
The answer is no, dummy. You got your incestuous flames mixed up, girl.

Simply pointing out a basic fact.

Do you want me to point out exactly where you said it? We all know that typically ends well for you.

FLW Buckeye · Post by **FLW Buckeye** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 6:13 pm

MSUFAN wrote:
Killian wrote:Babs, does it get hard trying to talk out of both sides of your mouth, whilst sucking on Izzo? This time last year you were telling all of us how meaningless RPI was, and how the committee should, and likely is, getting away from using it as a determining factor.

Just curious.
The answer is no, dummy. You got your incestuous flames mixed up, girl.

Let me get this right. With your negative answer, you're telling everyone on this board that you find it easy to talk out both sides of your mouth while playing Izzo's skin flute.

Bwahaha...