Meltdown in Leaf land

[The Rat Pack]

TORONTO (AP) -- Darcy Tucker was not happy that the Washington Capitals were laughing at his Toronto Maple Leafs.

"It's disappointing because you sit there at the end of the game and the other team is looking over at you and laughing," Tucker said. "It's not a fun thing, that's for sure."

The Maple Leafs, who are in danger of missing the playoffs for the first time in coach Pat Quinn's seven-year tenure. Toronto fans loudly booed the Maple Leafs as the final buzzer sounded on their third straight loss. The Leafs are three points behind Montreal for the final playoff spot in the Eastern Conference.

"Maybe we aren't as good as we think we are" Quinn said.

Their next games are in Buffalo (where they never win), Against Ottawa (outscored them 36-12 this season) & Montreal. If they tank all those games the season is over.

...and now McCabe is rumored to be traded to Vancouver.

This is great stuff.

[Mainiac]

Great stuff indeed. To see Pat Quinn, Darcy Tucker, Tie Domi, and Mats Sundin being humiliated like this brings glee to an otherwise lifeless (for a Bruins fan) NHL season. The only question is this: When does the fire sale begin?

[Deckard]

Fire sale? They already did themselves in trading for nolan and leetch a couple of years ago and signing allison,o'neill and lindros this year. If they can get anything for belfour or allison I'd be surprised. mccabe just isn't that good without kaberle and besides is free this summer.As for a meltdown, knowledgable fans weren't expecting that much this year anyway.Only two good things to happen in 2006 is sundin getting a gold and hasek "injuring"??? himself.

[fix]

The season was over months ago.
As soon as Fergie Jr resigned stiffs like Antropov, Berg, Belak etc..

Enjoy the new trade deadline boys..
The salary cap's going to kill all of the excitement that it once had.
Leaf fan will be happy if they can get a 3rd round draft pick for any of those stiffs.

[AcidQueen]

Have fun with Chairman Mo, LeafsFan.

[Smoked Meat]

The season was over months ago.
As soon as Fergie Jr resigned stiffs like Antropov, Berg, Belak etc..

Who's the idiot, or the group of idiots, who had the brilliant idea to hire Fergie? Montreal did a similar expirement in the 90's when they had Rejean Houle as a GM and it was a huge fucking disaster.

[Cross Traffic]

Houle....oh yeah, lets trade Roy for Thibault and a couple stiffs.

[JD]

The salary cap's going to kill all of the excitement that it once had.
Leaf fan will be happy if they can get a 3rd round draft pick for any of those stiffs.

Oh, you mean the excitement of Toronto, Philly, Colorado, and Detroit trading for every other team's best players? Whoa, don't let that go the way of the dodo!!

Don't blame the salary cap if the Leafs' best trade bait ain't worth anything. Toronto mortgaged their future for several years in a row trying to get to the Cup. They didn't make it, and now you Leaf fans can lie in the filth your GM's have created. Don't blame the salary cap for that inevitability. You should be pissed those teams didn't get the job done when they were given the chance.

[The Rat Pack]

Their one hot prospect, Carlo Cocacola, isn't even allowed to get on a stationary bike. He got injured way back in mid-January. His concussion was as massive as one can get. That doesn't bode well.

I would take Tucker. It pains me to say that.

[fix]

The season was over months ago.
As soon as Fergie Jr resigned stiffs like Antropov, Berg, Belak etc..

Who's the idiot, or the group of idiots, who had the brilliant idea to hire Fergie? Montreal did a similar expirement in the 90's when they had Rejean Houle as a GM and it was a huge fucking disaster.

The same moron that thought Rob Babcock would make a good GM for the Raptors..

Richard Peddie.

And Quinn wasn't a Fergie supporter. He wanted to bring Tambellini in.

Oh, you mean the excitement of Toronto, Philly, Colorado, and Detroit trading for every other team's best players? Whoa, don't let that go the way of the dodo!!

Seems as though you're confusing franchises that have the financial resources to make free agent signings with the trade deadline deals where Cup contenders would be willing to part with top picks, players and prospects to grab that final piece that might put them over the top..

Every team in contention was making those moves... without having to worry about an idiotic salary cap preventing them.

Don't blame the salary cap if the Leafs' best trade bait ain't worth anything. Toronto mortgaged their future for several years in a row trying to get to the Cup. They didn't make it, and now you Leaf fans can lie in the filth your GM's have created. Don't blame the salary cap for that inevitability. You should be pissed those teams didn't get the job done when they were given the chance.

I don't. I blame the current GM and the President, Richard Peddie for resigning a bunch of stiffs and completely missing the boat on players that they could have signed.

Their one hot prospect, Carlo Cocacola, isn't even allowed to get on a stationary bike. He got injured way back in mid-January. His concussion was as massive as one can get. That doesn't bode well.

You underestimate the depth of the Leafs top prospects.
Carlo's the 'name' guy but the Leafs are well stocked with good young defencemen and goaltending.

I would take Tucker. It pains me to say that.

He's about the only veteran player I'd refuse to trade.
He's still relatively young, bleeds Blue and White and should well be the next captain.

[al?]

You underestimate the depth of the Leafs top prospects.
Carlo's the 'name' guy but the Leafs are well stocked with good young defencemen and goaltending.

You'd better hope so. The Maple Chiefs are bad and they're only getting worse.

[fix]

You underestimate the depth of the Leafs top prospects.
Carlo's the 'name' guy but the Leafs are well stocked with good young defencemen and goaltending.

You'd better hope so. The Maple Chiefs are bad and they're only getting worse.

Actually, I'd love to see them tank the rest of this season.

It's probably about the only way that they will figure out that Fergie has to go.

[JD]

]Oh, you mean the excitement of Toronto, Philly, Colorado, and Detroit trading for every other team's best players? Whoa, don't let that go the way of the dodo!!

Seems as though you're confusing franchises that have the financial resources to make free agent signings with the trade deadline deals where Cup contenders would be willing to part with top picks, players and prospects to grab that final piece that might put them over the top..

Every team in contention was making those moves... without having to worry about an idiotic salary cap preventing them.

If the salary cap stops Toronto from picking up Housley, Gilmour, and Nolan (and probably others I'm forgetting) one year and Francis and Leetch another, it's probably doing nothing more than saving them from themselves. But no, I don't see that sort of thing as fair play... teams with money were harvesting other teams' best players. The fact that they could replace young players, prospects, picks, whatever, with band-aid free agent signings in the summer made it easier for them to do so.

I don't mind a couple of additions at the deadline, but the Leafs and Avs come to mind as teams that started stockpiling players just for the sake of it to escalate the "arms race" with their rivals.

I won't miss that.

[Hapday]

You underestimate the depth of the Leafs top prospects.
Carlo's the 'name' guy but the Leafs are well stocked with good young defencemen and goaltending.

You'd better hope so. The Maple Chiefs are bad and they're only getting worse.

Actually, I'd love to see them tank the rest of this season.

It's probably about the only way that they will figure out that Fergie has to go.

What the Leafs should do:

Just write off this season and try and get a high draft pick. All of the scouts have been saying that this won't be a deep draft, so the the Leafs should try and get as high as pick as they can or at least be in a position to trade up in the draft.

Re-building this team won't be that long of a process. The Leafs have a lot of talented young players and have a depth at the goaltender position. Quinn never plays the kids, so they never get develope. In the offseason they can fire Quinn and get rid of the old deadwood (so long Antropov, Allison, Lindros, Khavanov etc.)

What the Leafs will end up doing:

They will end up trading away youth for older, overrated, well-past-their-prime players in the hopes of making the playoffs. Even it does work and they squeak into the playoffs, they will get swept by whoever they face but MLSE will be happy because two playoffs games mean another $4 million.

[fix]

You'd better hope so. The Maple Chiefs are bad and they're only getting worse.

Actually, I'd love to see them tank the rest of this season.

It's probably about the only way that they will figure out that Fergie has to go.

What the Leafs should do:

Just write off this season and try and get a high draft pick. All of the scouts have been saying that this won't be a deep draft, so the the Leafs should try and get as high as pick as they can or at least be in a position to trade up in the draft.

Exactly..

And they haven't traded off their 1st round pick in this year's draft. The only pick they don't have this year is a conditional 3rd or more likely 4th round pick that Carolina will get for O'Neil.

Re-building this team won't be that long of a process. The Leafs have a lot of talented young players and have a depth at the goaltender position. Quinn never plays the kids, so they never get develope. In the offseason they can fire Quinn and get rid of the old deadwood (so long Antropov, Allison, Lindros, Khavanov etc.)

I'm a fan on Quinn's but the time has come.. like all great coaches, at some point the players start to tune their coach out.
It's time to bring in a fresh face.. and by extension.. get rid of Rick Ley who has done absolutely nothing for this team.
Keep Chaiman Mo down on the farm. He's a good AHL coach.

But the first and most important step is... fire Larry Pleau's understudy.

What the Leafs will end up doing:

They will end up trading away youth for older, overrated, well-past-their-prime players in the hopes of making the playoffs. Even it does work and they squeak into the playoffs, they will get swept by whoever they face but MLSE will be happy because two playoffs games mean another $4 million.

I fear that you're right.. why?

Because it's the only way that Fergie Jr can save his job.

[The Rat Pack]

Toronto got slaughtered by the Sabres.

Now they host Ottawa. Bring out the fork...the end is in sight.

[BrantfordBudFan]

The Leafs should gut the team and build around this guy


11 Shutouts! and he missed 2 weeks for the world juniors.[web]http://whl.ca/en/stats/player.php?id=23972[/web]

[Cross Traffic]

How bad is Ottawa going to whip the Laffs tonight? 8-2? 10-3? 12-1?

[The Rat Pack]

Let me get this straight in my head...

You want to gut one of the biggest franchises in hockey...and build around a 3rd round 19 year old, who while undeniably having a great season on a great team, and has had a good junior tournament (although he faced absolutely no shots) and has only been average in the minors?

Is that what you're saying? Because I don't think he's going to play a game for the Leafs for at least 2 more seasons.

[al?]

Let me get this straight in my head...

You want to gut one of the biggest franchises in hockey...and build around a 3rd round 19 year old, who while undeniably having a great season on a great team, and has had a good junior tournament (although he faced absolutely no shots) and has only been average in the minors?

They don't call them the Laffs for nothing.

Toronto, you are an utterly disgraceful franchise. Christ.

[BrantfordBudFan]

What I am saying is they should do what the Jays did and the Raps are doing.Build around Youth hell I get more enjoyment out of watching the Raptors then the Leafs because at least there is hope.And any scout will tell you that Poggie is the real deal.If not they have Turco Rask too.They should also take a lesson from the Jays on how to bring in talent,players in thier prime and not 30+.

[The Rat Pack]

I can get the gist of what you're saying. I don't disagree that the Leafs will have to eventually go young. I'm just not sure that Pogge is necessarily ready for a franchise to be built around him. He definitely needs 2-3 seasons in the AHL. That'll only put him at 23-23 years of age. Let's not rush him if he's all that.

As for the 30+ goalies... If the Leafs do plan on going young with their defense, they need a solid & proven veteran. Not a young goalie who will be under more pressure than even Dan Blackburn was under.

[fix]

Let me get this straight in my head...

You want to gut one of the biggest franchises in hockey...and build around a 3rd round 19 year old, who while undeniably having a great season on a great team, and has had a good junior tournament (although he faced absolutely no shots) and has only been average in the minors?

They don't call them the Laffs for nothing.

Toronto, you are an utterly disgraceful franchise. Christ.

For a supposedly "utterly disagraceful franchise" they do bring the rest of the league a huge amount of revenue.

What do you think the NHL's TV rights would be worth if not for the Maple Leafs on CBC in Canada...

[AcidQueen]

Money-making does not equal "not disgraceful".

[fix]

Money-making does not equal "not disgraceful".

No?

Well franchises that routinely have more empty seats than fans in them does equal "disgraceful"

They're a drag on the franchises that are successful.

[The Rat Pack]

The Leafs are very successful in having a group of fans that'll accept mediocre teams for decades.

Every business would want that. But it makes for a lousy product...and accolades for the Leafs are non-existent.

They have the dollars, they have the fan-base, but they are pretty much considered a running joke outside of the GTA. Cubfan can relate.. Storied frachise, lots of money, sellouts... But nothing to show for it but weak teams.

I guess having all the money is all Leaf fan can gloat about. Enjoy it.. The Walmart of the NHL.

[The Rat Pack]

Steen is your real bright spot. I like this guy..

But what can you do against Ottawa? Did you see those moves on Spezza? Wow

Cherry seems to be writing them off. It's hard to tell with him. The coaching is so lethargic. I totally agree with Cherry's comments about Wellwood playing with Tucker. Give Tucker what he wants! Unbelievable

[Hapday]

The good news (I hope) is the management can see that this team needs to be blown up. I really hope they don't do something stupid and trade away some of their youth for over-the-hillers in a desperate attempt to try and make MLSE more mone..........eeeeeeerrrrrrr make the playoffs.

[Deckard]

The Leafs had an idiot for an owner in Ballard after they last had a stanley cup winner. Once he died they actually had a run at the cup in the early nineties and have had some fairly competetive teams since. This year they will still be close to mid pack ( might actually be in the running for the playoffs if they could stop a puck in shootouts or actually score in them ). To be fair the enforcement of the "new" rules favors teams with fast, small, skilled players of which Quinn doesn't seem to want to play. If you constantly throw an Allison,O'neil,Antropov,Domi,Belak out there you don't deserve to win especially if you only have only one decent D pair.Belfour doesn't seem suited to the wide open game but they do have one of the better junior goalies in Pogge. I wouldn't be shedding any tears for the leafs, at least ownership wants to get things right.

[Hapday]

I wouldn't be shedding any tears for the leafs, at least ownership wants to get things right.

If the Leafs do things right in the offseason (get rid of the deadwood), Paul Maurice will make this a top-three team in the East next year. They have a lot of fast, young talent that don't get the minutes that Quinn's favorites do.

[AcidQueen]

If the Leafs do things right in the offseason (get rid of the deadwood), Paul Maurice will make this a top-three team in the East next year.

If Chairman Mo coaches something other than "play not to lose" once he gets back behind an NHL bench, I'll be surprised.

[Hapday]

If the Leafs do things right in the offseason (get rid of the deadwood), Paul Maurice will make this a top-three team in the East next year.

If Chairman Mo coaches something other than "play not to lose" once he gets back behind an NHL bench, I'll be surprised.

With the Marlies, Maurice is making chicken soup out of chicken feathers. Literally. His style did get Carolina to the Stanley Cup finals, which is more than any Leafs coach has in a few generations.

I think it would great if the Leafs fired Quinn, hired Maurice to coach the Leafs, and then hired Ted Nolan to run the Marlies.

[AcidQueen]

If the Leafs do things right in the offseason (get rid of the deadwood), Paul Maurice will make this a top-three team in the East next year.

If Chairman Mo coaches something other than "play not to lose" once he gets back behind an NHL bench, I'll be surprised.

With the Marlies, Maurice is making chicken soup out of chicken feathers. Literally. His style did get Carolina to the Stanley Cup finals, which is more than any Leafs coach has in a few generations.

I credit 2002 more to the team than to the coach--but what do I know, I'm just a Hurricanes fan.

[Deckard]

I would credit Arturs Irbe for a good chunk of that 2002 run. However if the refs continue to call everything, everytime, anytime I can't see a team like Ottawa being denied this year. The new rules really seem to help those teams with more skill than heart.

[fix]

If the Leafs do things right in the offseason (get rid of the deadwood), Paul Maurice will make this a top-three team in the East next year.

If Chairman Mo coaches something other than "play not to lose" once he gets back behind an NHL bench, I'll be surprised.

With the Marlies, Maurice is making chicken soup out of chicken feathers. Literally. His style did get Carolina to the Stanley Cup finals, which is more than any Leafs coach has in a few generations.

I think it would great if the Leafs fired Quinn, hired Maurice to coach the Leafs, and then hired Ted Nolan to run the Marlies.

Wrong, it would be great in the Leafs fired Fergie Jr, put Quinn into the GM role and hired Ted Nolan to coach the Marlies when they promote Maurice.

Speaking of the Canes and playoff chances though...Nice hit by Orprik last night...

[AcidQueen]

Wrong, it would be great in the Leafs fired Fergie Jr, put Quinn into the GM role and hired Ted Nolan to coach the Marlies when they promote Maurice.

I'll be awaiting the results of Paul Maurice's promotion with bated breath.

Speaking of the Canes and playoff chances though...Nice hit by Orprik last night...

And, of course, the League will do nothing about it.

But that's OK--it'll just make the Hurricanes angry and more determined to crush the opposition.

[fix]

Wrong, it would be great in the Leafs fired Fergie Jr, put Quinn into the GM role and hired Ted Nolan to coach the Marlies when they promote Maurice.

I'll be awaiting the results of Paul Maurice's promotion with bated breath.

Speaking of the Canes and playoff chances though...Nice hit by Orprik last night...

And, of course, the League will do nothing about it.

But that's OK--it'll just make the Hurricanes angry and more determined to crush the opposition.

It wouldn't bother me the least if they didn't promote Maurice either..
Fact is, I'm not that convinced he's a good NHL coach either. But the list of top prospects to coach just isn't all that great right now unless you want to bring in retreads.

The league should hand out the appropriate punishment for a first time offence..
3 games is about right isn't it?

[Hapday]

However if the refs continue to call everything, everytime, anytime I can't see a team like Ottawa being denied this year.

Ottawa? Unless they trade and get a second-line centre they are going nowhere. I don't think they'll get past the second round.

[Hapday]

Fact is, I'm not that convinced he's a good NHL coach either.

Considering what he is doing with the Marlies right now, I doubt the Leafs can do much better. Well, other than firing Quinn AND JFJ and opening the vaults to land Sutter.

Quinn was a disaster as GM before, and he would be a disaster as GM if the Leafs make him so again.

[BrantfordBudFan]

If the Sens play the Habs in the first round I think they can give them a run.BTW watch out for the Devils.