[EDIT] Did Bush's original NAFTA set up jobs flight?

[MSUFAN]

I want to have links to non-biased sources, and calm, intelligent discussion; on wether or not the ORIGINAL NAFTA ideas that Bush had fathered and gleaned for congressional approval as far back as 1989; and Clinton had signed into Law in 1992, could be, or are the main reason we've seen such a dismantling of the manufacturing base, (see Union better paying jobs, that uphold the key middle class of america) in this country the last 5+ years.

Or can you show facts that suggest the trend was coming YEARS before Clinton was even president? Only now; it's been magnified 10 fold under current climates in and around Capitol Hill?


Also, in your opinion; what has, (and worse) hasn't been done to "fix" NAFTA? Is Bush II neglecting to rescind it, or major parts of it?

Thanks.

[MSUFAN]

Almost TEN hours later, I finally found a qualified link that tells me a LOT about NAFTA.

The Economic Policy Institute in Wa., DC. put out a very exhaustive study on the potential good and bad from the BUSH NAFTA idea set forth in 1989.

http://www.epinet.org/briefingpapers/1992_bp_effect.pdf

Read it.

Then, if I EVER hear one more shithead on the internet claim that Clinton was to blame for NAFTA, and the huge job losses caused by it, I'll shoot that person.

Sure, Clinton eventually signed it. But the damn ideals behind it were strictly Bush I.

So, as I've seen the flurry of active discussion in here on NAFTA is going through the roof, I guess I found out the answer to my own questions.

That BOTH presidents are to blame for this huge disaterous economic trade blunder.

My NEXT question then becomes --- WHY hasn't anyone done anything about it?! Why no fixes? The EPI descibed it as a total misguided agreement, that will, (and DID) cause the flight and reduction of Thousands upon thousands of Decent paying American middle class jobs.

Anyone?

[OCmike]

First this:

calm, intelligent discussion

Then this:

Then, if I EVER hear one more shithead on the internet claim that Clinton was to blame for NAFTA, and the huge job losses caused by it, I'll shoot that person.

Nice going, Beavis.

Anyone?

That's the first time I've seen someone plead for responses in awhile. I laughed.

In the future, if you really want to have intelligent discussion with someone, here's a checklist of things not to do:

- Set strict outlines for what you deem allowable for discussion

- Provide required reading before said discussion

- Imply that anyone who doesn't agree with you is an idiot, then plead for responses

[MSUFAN]

thank you, teacher. I go to potty now?

The key is, after my ORIGINAL thought got not one person willing to engage the problem, I did exhaustive research, and discovered that this "crutch" used by most all of the Neo-Cons in here, and elsewhere; that the Clinton admin. was solely responsible for this bad trade policy idea. And that was the reason tens of thousands of good paying manufacturing jobs have left the country.


So, I used a foul word or two, to express my disdain for the clods who use that spin.

Sue me.

[BSmack]

My NEXT question then becomes --- WHY hasn't anyone done anything about it?! Why no fixes? The EPI descibed it as a total misguided agreement, that will, (and DID) cause the flight and reduction of Thousands upon thousands of Decent paying American middle class jobs. Anyone?

What's to fix?

sin

CEOs

[MSUFAN]

When readin other links to the passage of NAFTA, I got the impression that there was some SERIOUS deal making, and lobbyists were working overtime, to get congress to approve it. I also infered that Clinton was somewhat duped, and mislead into enacting the agreement.

I also saw corellations to CAFTA, that tidy little act the BushII went and signed.

Oh, fuck it. Why bother?! The only way to keep from boiling up inside over these assholes again; is to do it through the polling booth! Just vote these fucks out!!! Elect people who CARE about middle america, and the working poor!

Nov. '06 is the beginning

[BSmack]

Read the introduction to "The Mismeasure of Man" by Stephen J. Gould.

That should tell you all you need to know about how workers have been brainwashed to hate themselves. This shit goes back to the days of stone tablets.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

Read the introduction to "The Mismeasure of Man" by Stephen J. Gould.

That should tell you all you need to know about how workers have been brainwashed to hate themselves. This shit goes back to the days of stone tablets.

That book should go side-by-side with Thomas Frank's "What's The Matter With Kansas?"
on every bookshelf.

[Diogenes]

thank you, teacher. I go to potty now?

Can we stop you from shitting allover this place?

The key is, after my ORIGINAL thought got not one person willing to engage the problem, I did exhaustive research, and discovered that this "crutch" used by most all of the Neo-Cons in here, and elsewhere; that the Clinton admin. was solely responsible for this bad trade policy idea.

Link?

Which 'neo-cons' give the former rapist-in-chief credit for any originality in free trade measures?

His only positive influence was in stealing GOP policies and taking credit for them.

And that was the reason tens of thousands of good paying manufacturing jobs have left the country.

Why don't you do some 'exhaustive research' as to the effects of the mercantilist policies you idiots wish to reserect back in their day?

And we are primarily losing manufacturing jobs in unskilled, unionized workforces.


Fuck them, and fuck you.

[MSUFAN]

Oh, a-hole; there's plenty of neo's in here who continually would place the fault of the flight of jobs squarely on Clinton, for signing NAFTA.

You bird brain. Don't ask for fucking links, ass.

After reading that CBO report on "BUSH'S" NAFTA proposal, back in 1989, I now realize it was the brainchild of fucking Neo-Con, corporate, fascist lobbyists on Capitol Hill.

Go fuck yourself.

I never want to hear some ass use "Clinton's" NAFTA as an excuse for the manufacturing jobs flight.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

I now realize it was the brainchild of fucking Neo-Con, corporate, fascist lobbyists on Capitol Hill.

And your hero, Birr Criwntawn, was the biggest corporate whore of them all.

I thought he was a Socialist?

[PSUFAN]

Are you really claiming that Clinton didn't understand the true implications of NAFTA? That contention is laughably stupid.

[Diogenes]

Oh, a-hole; there's plenty of neo's in here who continually would place the fault of the flight of jobs squarely on Clinton, for signing NAFTA.

You bird brain. Don't ask for fucking links, ass.

After reading that CBO report on "BUSH'S" NAFTA proposal, back in 1989, I now realize it was the brainchild of fucking Neo-Con, corporate, fascist lobbyists on Capitol Hill.

Go fuck yourself.

I never want to hear some ass use "Clinton's" NAFTA as an excuse for the manufacturing jobs flight.

~Translation~

I can't name a single one and don't know what the fuck I'm babbling about.


For your info, dumbfuck, the so-called 'neo-cons' (meaning traditional Liberals) are pro-free trade.



It is the 'paleo-con' neo-mercantilists that oppose it.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

...'neo-cons' (meaning traditional Liberals)...

I laughed.

[Diogenes]

...'neo-cons' (meaning traditional Liberals)...

I laughed.

I'm sure Michael Harrington's still laughing.