UNION YES!

Gunslinger · Post by **Gunslinger** » Wed Nov 16, 2005 6:00 am

mvscal wrote:
MSUFAN wrote:The NW Air Pilots took one in the ass, because of the threats!

It's not a threat, jerkoff. It's a fucking fact. Unions are parasites. Successful parasites would not kill off their host organism which explains why unions are failing everywhere except the government sector.

If unions are such a parasite then where do you get off posting so much from work?

MSUFAN · Post by **MSUFAN** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 2:10 pm

You assume that fuckstain WORKS!?

Also;

Variable wrote:The Big Three posted huge profits because they were selling cars like crazy due to their employee pricing program. Or essentially, they were artificially driving up sales with a once-in-a-generation sale.

WRONG!

How old exactly are you?

The "Big 3" - had been (for the most part) setting RECORDS all through the 90's and into 2000. But it all came to a screeching halt under Bush's new economic realignment recently. THAT's why you saw these "sucker" pricing deals this last 12 months. Don't be a fool. They STILL made profits off that shit. Don't be mislead by corporate accounting shrills.

These companies have squandered profits. Neglected the trends in the industry. Failed to hire and compete for cutting edge thinkers who would design and build affordable, efficient vehicles that would outsell those made by the foriegners. Even those Co.'s that were allowed to come here and exploit the hicks down south, who don't know any better about what the term Middle Class Working American means. Their eyes popped out as soon as some Jap company came here during Reagans "restructuring" of our entire manufacturing economy, and dangled $10/hr. factory jobs in front of their faces! It's called screwing your neighbors. The Midwest and North, mostly.

This Nation was taken advantage of, because of the climate that the Conservatives took during Reagan. He was the chief instigator/overseer in the downfall of manufacturing unions, and now, their disciples (Bush I & II) are simply following thier Hero's lead!

Also helping this along, has been the demand by gas guzzling idiots who drive 80 mph in a 350+ cci truck/suv. Worse, these fucking women doing it, while towing nothing more than their snotnosed kids to soccer practice! The fact that the Bush's are so far up Big Olis ass, should give you an idea why these vehicles were "encouraged" and pushed in advertisements and other "Go BIG, or Go Home" trends and ideals.

(And don't bother going into, "americans are to blame. Consumption, blah, blah, blah.... "shit, ok? I don't wanna hear it. These vehicles were pushed onto us by big oil, and a sweet economy under 8 years of Clinton. Now, big oil wants to lay the WOOD to us in a major way. You've seen it at the gouging gas pumps. THEY get the huge profits, while auto co.'s (workers) get the shafts!)

No, the blame for this economy of blue collar, middle class extermination, lies mostly with the top management and board room members. As well as the current administration, who'll not even ADDRESS the problem! NOT the guy skillfully applying door trim to a GMC Truck.

mothster · Post by **mothster** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 2:23 pm

'we get people like Dr. and his butt bongo love slave, mvscal'

MSUFAN · Post by **MSUFAN** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 4:26 pm

Shoemaker is callin these azzhole Delphi bosses out:

Delphi said Wednesday that it had raised its wage offer to its unions from about $9.50 an hour to between $10 and $12.50 an hour for production workers.

"This proposal results in a wage and benefit package cost of more than $21 an hour, placing Delphi in a competitive base pay and benefit range with its U.S. unionized and nonunionized competitors," Delphi said in a statement.

Gettelfinger and other union leaders characterized that offer as one designed to provoke a fight with the six unions that represent Delphi's 34,000 U.S. hourly workers.

"Their latest proposal does not charge workers for the air that they breathe or the water that they drink while on the job," Gettelfinger said. "That must have been an oversight on their part."

Delphi's proposal also calls for the parts supplier to eliminate about 22,000 U.S. jobs over the next three years, said UAW Vice President Richard Shoemaker.

"It's clear that this proposal is designed for confrontation," Shoemaker said.

And CONfrontation is what they'll get!

Can you believe the audacity of these Billion dollar pricks!?

My buddy just talked to me on the phone. He's tight with suppliers and auto manuf. types. He said if Delphi goes, GM won't be far behind. And if GM goes, you might as well pack up Michigan, and turn out the lights. It'll be Mississippi in less than a decade.

OCmike · Post by **OCmike** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 5:08 pm

MSUFAN wrote:You assume that fuckstain WORKS!?

Also;

Variable wrote:The Big Three posted huge profits because they were selling cars like crazy due to their employee pricing program. Or essentially, they were artificially driving up sales with a once-in-a-generation sale.

WRONG!

How old exactly are you?
If the next line is, "Have you ever seen a grown man's penis?", I'm outta here.

The "Big 3" - had been (for the most part) setting RECORDS all through the 90's and into 2000. But it all came to a screeching halt under Bush's new economic realignment recently. THAT's why you saw these "sucker" pricing deals this last 12 months. Don't be a fool. They STILL made profits off that shit. Don't be mislead by corporate accounting shrills.
Uh, yeah. That would be why I said they made "huge profits", which you quoted above. Nice going, Beavis.

Financing aside, automakers make money by either selling a lot of cars with a little markup or fewer cars with a bigger markup. Nothing new here.

These companies have squandered profits. Neglected the trends in the industry. Failed to hire and compete for cutting edge thinkers who would design and build affordable, efficient vehicles that would outsell those made by the foriegners. Even those Co.'s that were allowed to come here and exploit the hicks down south, who don't know any better about what the term Middle Class Working American means. Their eyes popped out as soon as some Jap company came here during Reagans "restructuring" of our entire manufacturing economy, and dangled $10/hr. factory jobs in front of their faces! It's called screwing your neighbors. The Midwest and North, mostly.
It's also called, "Paying employees a market wage for their skill level." That's not Reagan's fault, that's the fault of the unions for pricing their employees out of the market. You talk about corporate greed and corporations not having vision? How about union greed and lack of vision on their part?! If they were smart, they would recognize the fact that at some point another automaker would come in offering lower wages that would make it difficult for a union employer to compete and would negotiate accordingly. But they didnt' do that...they got greedy and priced themselves right out of the fucking market. Boo-fucking-hoo. The chickens have come home to roost.

Also helping this along, has been the demand by gas guzzling idiots who drive 80 mph in a 350+ cci truck/suv. Worse, these fucking women doing it, while towing nothing more than their snotnosed kids to soccer practice! The fact that the Bush's are so far up Big Olis ass, should give you an idea why these vehicles were "encouraged" and pushed in advertisements and other "Go BIG, or Go Home" trends and ideals.
True, but this is still America. Guess what? You can buy whatever fucking car you want. You want fewer choices, move to France. You can have your pick of four different Renault models.

(And don't bother going into, "americans are to blame. Consumption, blah, blah, blah.... "shit, ok? I don't wanna hear it. These vehicles were pushed onto us by big oil, and a sweet economy under 8 years of Clinton. Now, big oil wants to lay the WOOD to us in a major way. You've seen it at the gouging gas pumps. THEY get the huge profits, while auto co.'s (workers) get the shafts!)
They weren't pushed onto us by oil companies, they were pushed onto us by soccer moms and other consumers who wanted the convenience and comfort of an SUV. The consumer drives that market. I don't recall Chevron or Exxon/Mobil running pro-SUV ads any time in the past few years, do you? Jesus, that argument is so retarded you've actually got me defending the oil companies. Nice going.

No, the blame for this economy of blue collar, middle class extermination, lies mostly with the top management and board room members. As well as the current administration, who'll not even ADDRESS the problem! NOT the guy skillfully applying door trim to a GMC Truck.

The problem is that the guy applying the door trim never bothered to get good grades in high school, go to college, go to a trade school or even try at life. What he did was get the first local unskilled job he could find, and wants to sit there and do something a 10 y/o could master in an hour and get paid $25/hour for it. You think that's a reasonable expectation?

My old man taught me when I was a kid that anyone with two hands and the ability to walk can do a manual labor job, so you'll never make much money and you'll always be subject to layoffs during hard times, because you're totally replaceable. But if your skill involves your mind and you always work hard to improve yourself, you'll never be out of a job for long. To paraphrase the knight from Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, "They have chosen...poorly."

MSUFAN · Post by **MSUFAN** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 5:48 pm

And how and why were those "other auto companies who came along" ALLOWED to come along!? How was it that they were able to come here and take advantage of the hourly union laid off workforce?! HOW?!

Because of the economic strategy set in place by RONALD W REAGAN! (I put the "W" in there, for a reason) THAT is the climate encouraged and set free by the conservative NON - Union movement! Now; they've almost completed the job! Union members were making those wages for DECADES! and the companies did well, asshole.
Only NOW, since there is a total disfunctional president and congress, we get what we've seen for a few years now. - The systematic dismantling of decent paying, some highly skilled; UNION jobs!

That dogs not huntin, jackass. These companies have ALL been in this shit together. This has been a concerted effort for YEARS by them to placate shareholder mentalities amongst their investors.

Now, go rail on and on to me about that's what's best for them. The Shareholdes deserve to have a major say in how these companies are operated. Go ahead. - And I'll say to YOU, that they'd better watch their asses, because there won't be a god damn public sector out there anymore, who can afford to buy their shit! Because they'll all be out of their skilled wages jobs! And the ones who aren't in a skilled position, who were doing ok, and were able to buy a few things, they'll all be working for 10 fucking bucks!!!! Wow! WTF can a guy do with a family on TEN fucking dollars an hour!!!!?

Corporate fascist pigs, I swear, man. :roll:

What's that saying? - "Watch what you wish for." ? ? ? ?

Do you even realize what it takes to simply pay BASIC living expenses and bills for a fucking below average lifestyle!? I don't think you do!

I live in a pretty average 3 bdr. 1,300 sq. ft. ranch. 1/3 acre. City limits.
My average month of bills, JUST to exist! is around $2,000.00 !!!!!
What's my NEW Delphi UNION wage cut job of $11.00/hr. going to get me!? $440.00 per week!!?That's $1905.00 a god damn month, dick! Tell me what's what now!

You fuckers act like $20 beans an hour is some god damn shangri-la!!!
Livin HIGH off the hog! Yeah!!!
Well, it isn't! It's $3,400.00 a month GROSS income!
That means me and my MODEST domicile would have $1,400 per month to play with after just BASICS! That's $320 bucks a week! Wow! Man! Lets go start a yacht business!

Fools.

All of you corporate pricks.

OCmike · Post by **OCmike** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 6:23 pm

Wow! WTF can a guy do with a family on TEN fucking dollars an hour!!!!?

Do you even realize what it takes to simply pay BASIC living expenses and bills for a fucking below average lifestyle!? I don't think you do!

Which is exactly why no fucking reasonable adult with any common sense should put themselves in the position of working unskilled labor in their 30's. Just because those folks decide that they don't want anything more for themselves than to put a rivet in a fucking hole and press a button, doesn't mean that their employer is somehow obligated to pay them fifty-fucking-thousand dollars a year for it! You want to earn more money? Pick up another fucking job skill!

When I started out at my current company I was making $16/hour, which isn't shit in orange county, CA. The only reason I was able to live on that was because I roomed with an emu. Now, contrary to what you're suggesting, which is to stagnate professionally and just expect raise after raise, I continually upped my skill set over the years to the point now where I've worked myself into a position where I make DOUBLE what I did when I first started. I didn't just sit around and whine about not making enough money, I worked my ass off and put myself in a position where I earned more money.

There's no bigger fucking waste of a human being than some piece of shit that thinks he entitled to middle-class money just because he occupies space.

You don't like the money you're making at Delphi? Get off your fucking ass, improve your skill set and go get a better fucking job.

MSUFAN · Post by **MSUFAN** » Fri Nov 18, 2005 1:50 pm

What the Hell is wrong with you, dude?

Who said they don't like the money they make at Delphi!?

The thread is about the Union wanting to KEEP most of the money they make at Delphi - dummy. Or something fairly close to it!

Have you read the Companies position?! $10-12/hr offer for work that they WERE doing fine paying an AVERAGE $21.00 for!

Not to mention the Benefit slashes!

Get the hell outta my thread, you moron. These people negotiated a CONTRACT. A LEGAL employment contract with a HUGE profitable company over the years! THEY are the ones to blame for their companies bottom line issues.
The CORPORATION are the ones breaking their Contract. Breaking theoir word. Claiming they'll just disolve the company if MASSIVE cuts aren't made! Who's fault is it, that Delphi didn't make sure they stayed cutting edge? That they didn't stay hooked to the proper auto corps, so they could continue profitability!?

It SURE as Hell wasn't their Laborers fault!

It falls squarly on Upper Management, and shareholders GREED!

And as said before. The CLIMATE encouraged and cultivated by the NEO-Conservatives running capital hill!!!

OCmike · Post by **OCmike** » Fri Nov 18, 2005 6:04 pm

Have you read the Companies position?! $10-12/hr offer for work that they WERE doing fine paying an AVERAGE $21.00 for!

It SURE as Hell wasn't their Laborers fault!

No, it's the union's fault. The fact that they expected a company to turn a profit while remaining competitive AND paying slack-jawed yokels $21/hour is laughable.

It falls squarly on Upper Management, and shareholders GREED!

Right, because unions aren't motivated by greed and power at all...

There is no right and wrong here, idiot. BOTH sides are motivated by money, power and greed.

What's funniest about your position is that you begrudge a company their profit, yet if the company isn't profitable, there aren't any fucking jobs. Stupid some?

MSUFAN · Post by **MSUFAN** » Sat Nov 19, 2005 1:59 am

No, the essense of the thing is to find the common ground. The middle where everyone profits, you mensa. That's what WAS happening, until the companies saw the way. The way shown to them by the Delta's, The United's and the TWA'a and NW's. and a HOST of other corporate welfare deals!

There's a smelly RAT trend here, and if you believe the side that holds the accountants and lawyers, then I don't need to speak with you any further. You are NOT on the side of the commonwealth. Which was so eloquently addressed by Mr. Moyers' speech. If you read it, you'd know what he said aboutMoney; Wealth, and the COMMON wealth.

A-hole.

OCmike · Post by **OCmike** » Sun Nov 20, 2005 12:51 am

MSUFAN wrote:No, the essense of the thing is to find the common ground. The middle where everyone profits, you mensa.

Everyone profits, except the consumer who has to pay higher prices to subsidize the income of some loser who's still working unskilled labor into his 30's. That may sound harsh, but if you've been in the work force for 15 fucking years and still haven't picked up a marketable skill...you're either a loser or a dumbass. I don't fault the dumbasses, it's not their fault, but the rest of them are failures at life and I see no reason why I should pay more for a car, auto part or anything else, just because they want a bigger share of the company profit for doing monkey work.

A-hole.

Yeah, union losers never like it when someone calls things like they are.

Unions in this country make it next to impossible to fire shitty employees, artificially drive up the prices of goods by blackmailing employers into undeserved higher wages, and stifle innovation by threatening strikes and work slowdowns when a company dares to try to upgrade their systems with new technology. They stopped serving any useful purpose about 80 fucking years ago.

Pussies work union. A real man would neither want nor need one.

Diego in Seattle · Post by **Diego in Seattle** » Sun Nov 20, 2005 1:41 am

OCmike wrote:Pussies work union. A real man would neither want nor need one.

And you still believe in the tooth fairy & Santa, don't you?

Diogenes · Post by **Diogenes** » Sun Nov 20, 2005 3:47 am

Diego in Seattle wrote:
OCmike wrote:Pussies work union. A real man would neither want nor need one.
And you still believe in the tooth fairy & Santa, don't you?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Unionized twit playing the 'Believe in Santa' card?

Nice irony.

No, genius, the differential between your non-existant job skills and your inflated wage isn't a gift, it is theft.

Paid by the public in general through the threat of strikes in the privite sector, and a de facto monopoly (among other sorts of corruption) in the public.

Compared to union backers (as opposed to the poor slobs who just pay them off to be allowed to work) the average streetwalker is downright noble.

MSUFAN · Post by **MSUFAN** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:52 pm

Mod/Ads, just delete this whole fucking thread. I'm tired of fucking TROLLS, and thier idiotic arguing a senseless point, just for the sake of attention getting, and getting a rise.

Trolls.

Every board needs it's TROLLS.

Out.

Diego in Seattle · Post by **Diego in Seattle** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 2:08 pm

Diogenes wrote:Compared to union backers (as opposed to the poor slobs who just pay them off to be allowed to work) the average streetwalker is downright noble.[/b]

And I'm a saint in Diogenes' eyes!

Sincerely,
Dennis Kozlowski

Diogenes · Post by **Diogenes** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 4:18 pm

MSUFAN wrote:Mod/Ads, just delete this whole fucking thread. I'm tired of fucking TROLLS, and thier idiotic arguing a senseless point, just for the sake of attention getting, and getting a rise.

Trolls.

Every board needs it's TROLLS.

Out.

Irony.

Diogenes · Post by **Diogenes** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 4:24 pm

Diego in Seattle wrote:
Diogenes wrote:Compared to union backers (as opposed to the poor slobs who just pay them off to be allowed to work) the average streetwalker is downright noble.
And I'm a saint in Diogenes' eyes!

Sincerely,
Dennis Kozlowski

Link?

The differance between CEOs and union bosses is that the former have to deal with anti-trust laws that the later are legaly exempt from, and that the later actually hold the monopolies that said laws were created to prevent.

More irony.

OCmike · Post by **OCmike** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 8:38 pm

MSUFAN wrote:Mod/Ads, just delete this whole fucking thread. I'm tired of fucking TROLLS, and thier idiotic arguing a senseless point, just for the sake of attention getting, and getting a rise.

Trolls.

Every board needs it's TROLLS.

Out.

Dude, you were arguing with a mod.

Less deleting a thread that gives a perfect example of a union tool trying to justify the unjust.

Mister Bushice · Post by **Mister Bushice** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 8:54 pm

My experience with unions is very limited, because when I was young I saw how they do protect morons.

One summer in college I worked at a grocery warehouse with all these union guys. They use new hirees as slave labor for 12 to 16 hour shifts. They force 12.

The guys who were training me for the 3 brief days I wasted there were the biggest idiots I ever met. One day this big fat shit working the dock said "I need a fucking cigarette" he then promptly picked up a case of glass bottled fruit juice, looked around, then dropped it from head height, waited 30 seconds then yelled "porter". The whole line shut down for 15 minutes while they cleaned it up.

The second day the union guys finished their 8 hour quotas in 6 hours, so they spent the next two dicking around as slowly as they possibly could, one guy watching for the company guy so they could fake working when he walked by. They even got pissed at me because I finished an order too fast. One guy slept in the bathroom for 90 minutes.

Recently a friend of mines dad retired from the electrical union. Actually they changed the rules to make it more difficult for the older guys to stay in the union. He only gets his pension as long as he doesn't work as an electrician anywhere.

Unions suck.

Mister Bushice · Post by **Mister Bushice** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 9:38 pm

Let's not forget the shafting the union grocery store workers went through out here. almost 5 months on strike and in the end the the workers didn't get what they went on strike for, and the stores pay less than one third what they have been paying for health care.

mothster · Post by **mothster** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 10:50 pm

lousy unions---------

gordon gecko

OCmike · Post by **OCmike** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 11:54 pm

Mister Bushice wrote:Let's not forget the shafting the union grocery store workers went through out here. almost 5 months on strike and in the end the the workers didn't get what they went on strike for, and the stores pay less than one third what they have been paying for health care.

Word. That strike ended up great for me. I hired a chick who was a bakery manager at Ralph's. She'd worked there for 15 years and was making $13/hour. Her jaw about hit the floor when she was hired at $14/hour, which was the base salary for her position. So she ended up scoring a better job and didn't need to go back, but she said that if she had, she'd have been screwed. Positions like hers got totally shafted by the strike. She'd have been lucky to get a $.25 raise/year after that. The checkers are the only ones who get any decent raises, and ironically are the least-skilled jobs in the place. She actually had to know how to cook artisan breads, bake and professionally decorate cakes, plus make all the donuts and other fat pills they sell there, yet gets paid damn near half what someone does to run UPC codes over a scanner. Stupid system some?

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 8:00 pm

Cool! OC Mike found a flaw in a union contract! Let's get rid of all unions now!

OCmike · Post by **OCmike** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 8:49 pm

BSmack wrote:Cool! OC Mike found a flaw in a union contract! Let's get rid of all unions now!

There are a few places where unions make sense, such as firefighters and police, but at least 90% of them do nothing but protect tards and protect a union's position of power.

Look at what the CTA (California Teacher's Association) did in the recent election. They spent $120 million dollars and almost bankrupted the union, not to fight back against Arnold's Prop 74 (which they had every right to do), but to run a year-long anti-Arnold proposition. They spent all those millions trying to defeat EVERY Arnold initiative, to show Arnold that the unions run this state. Props to them, I guess. They spent $120 million of union members dues...money that could have gone towards strike benefits, lobbying fees, etc. Additionally, they charged each union member with a one-time fee of $60 per year over the next three years to fund the last few months of the campaign. Union members were not allowed to opt out. Additionally, this money is already spent even though it will take the full 3 years to still collect it. All to push votes on initiatives that don't even involve teachers. Yeah, unions make a lot of fucking sense... If I was a teacher, I'd be seriously fucking pissed.

Shlomart Ben Yisrael · Tue Nov 22, 2005 9:04 pm

"Pfffttt...Unions are for pussies. After my double shift, I'm going home to play with Legos."

Shlomart Ben Yisrael · Tue Nov 22, 2005 9:05 pm

^^^^^^^^^
Actual American Labour History

(not the "Legos" part)

Sirfindafold · Post by **Sirfindafold** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 9:22 pm

Martyred wrote:^^^^^^^^^
Actual American Labour History

(not the "Legos" part)

So what you're saying is that my kids should be pissed off at the mexicans for taking their jobs.

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 9:23 pm

OCmike wrote:
BSmack wrote:Cool! OC Mike found a flaw in a union contract! Let's get rid of all unions now!
There are a few places where unions make sense, such as firefighters and police, but at least 90% of them do nothing but protect tards and protect a union's position of power.

Look at what the CTA (California Teacher's Association) did in the recent election. They spent $120 million dollars and almost bankrupted the union, not to fight back against Arnold's Prop 74 (which they had every right to do), but to run a year-long anti-Arnold proposition. They spent all those millions trying to defeat EVERY Arnold initiative, to show Arnold that the unions run this state. Props to them, I guess. They spent $120 million of union members dues...money that could have gone towards strike benefits, lobbying fees, etc. Additionally, they charged each union member with a one-time fee of $60 per year over the next three years to fund the last few months of the campaign. Union members were not allowed to opt out. Additionally, this money is already spent even though it will take the full 3 years to still collect it. All to push votes on initiatives that don't even involve teachers. Yeah, unions make a lot of fucking sense... If I was a teacher, I'd be seriously fucking pissed.

Come again? CA teachers make better money than any in the country. What is to be pissed about?

Sirfindafold · Post by **Sirfindafold** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 9:28 pm

BSmack wrote: Come again? CA teachers make better money than any in the country. What is to be pissed about?

quality of education in CA for starters.

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 9:33 pm

Sirfindafold wrote:
BSmack wrote: Come again? CA teachers make better money than any in the country. What is to be pissed about?
quality of education in CA for starters.

Given the quality of posts comming from our SoCal group, maybe you have a point.

Mister Bushice · Post by **Mister Bushice** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 9:59 pm

BSmack wrote:
OCmike wrote:
BSmack wrote:Cool! OC Mike found a flaw in a union contract! Let's get rid of all unions now!
There are a few places where unions make sense, such as firefighters and police, but at least 90% of them do nothing but protect tards and protect a union's position of power.

Look at what the CTA (California Teacher's Association) did in the recent election. They spent $120 million dollars and almost bankrupted the union, not to fight back against Arnold's Prop 74 (which they had every right to do), but to run a year-long anti-Arnold proposition. They spent all those millions trying to defeat EVERY Arnold initiative, to show Arnold that the unions run this state. Props to them, I guess. They spent $120 million of union members dues...money that could have gone towards strike benefits, lobbying fees, etc. Additionally, they charged each union member with a one-time fee of $60 per year over the next three years to fund the last few months of the campaign. Union members were not allowed to opt out. Additionally, this money is already spent even though it will take the full 3 years to still collect it. All to push votes on initiatives that don't even involve teachers. Yeah, unions make a lot of fucking sense... If I was a teacher, I'd be seriously fucking pissed.
Come again? CA teachers make better money than any in the country. What is to be pissed about?

The hypocrisy of them bitching to high heaven about arnold spending their money, money they say should have gone to "the children in the schools" when it was proposed budget money, not actual existing money that was taken back. Then they turn around and spend 120 mil just to smear the guy, and deceived the people in the process with advertisements that didn't tell the whole story.

Arnold started out as governor by saying "this is not going to be easy, we will have to make sacrifices" But the unions don't want to lose control and so they've effectively set economic recovery of this state back by several years because of it.

That's what I'm pissed about. These clueless power hungry fuckers don't care about anything but themselves, and several of those defeated initiatives would have helped, not hurt California.

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 10:06 pm

You're missing the point. What should the TEACHERS be pissed about? Obviously you, Mike and a few others have your own issues with the unions. But what should a teacher who is making more bank than any other teacher be pissed about when their union effectively eliminates ballot measures that would have threatened said position?

mothster · Post by **mothster** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 10:36 pm

bring back grey-------

state pen guards

Mister Bushice · Post by **Mister Bushice** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 10:44 pm

BSmack wrote:You're missing the point. What should the TEACHERS be pissed about? Obviously you, Mike and a few others have your own issues with the unions. But what should a teacher who is making more bank than any other teacher be pissed about when their union effectively eliminates ballot measures that would have threatened said position?

Actually the ballot measures in question would have only extended tenure voting from 2 to 5 years (no big deal - that would only help to weed out a few more bad ones), and the other one would have stopped public employee unions from using union dues for political purposes without the written consent of union members.

So essentially the union spent all the dues money of the members on a political cause without asking them in order to stop a measure that would have prevented them from spending the union members dues on political causes without asking them.

No, self interest there eh?

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 1:55 am

Mister Bushice wrote:
BSmack wrote:You're missing the point. What should the TEACHERS be pissed about? Obviously you, Mike and a few others have your own issues with the unions. But what should a teacher who is making more bank than any other teacher be pissed about when their union effectively eliminates ballot measures that would have threatened said position?
Actually the ballot measures in question would have only extended tenure voting from 2 to 5 years (no big deal - that would only help to weed out a few more bad ones), and the other one would have stopped public employee unions from using union dues for political purposes without the written consent of union members.

So essentially the union spent all the dues money of the members on a political cause without asking them in order to stop a measure that would have prevented them from spending the union members dues on political causes without asking them.

No, self interest there eh?

Still dodging the point eh?

Cali teachers are the best compensated in the country. Obviously that money being spent "without their writen consent" is being spent in a way that allows these teachers to be compensated better than their peers elsewhere.

Isn't that the whole point behind paying union dues?

Diogenes · Post by **Diogenes** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 3:21 am

Translation...

The hell with the children, they're too young to vote.

Mister Bushice · Post by **Mister Bushice** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 3:50 am

^^^^
Exactly.

Too bad these teachers can't translate words into action.

Shlomart Ben Yisrael · Wed Nov 23, 2005 4:08 am

Hey BSmack...
...you weren't kidding about "queing up the Lee Greenwood CD's".

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 4:24 am

Martyred wrote:Hey BSmack...
...you weren't kidding about "queing up the Lee Greenwood CD's".

Not at all. You've never been to an American Kareoke bar have you?

Shlomart Ben Yisrael · Wed Nov 23, 2005 4:28 am

BSmack wrote:
Martyred wrote:Hey BSmack...
...you weren't kidding about "queing up the Lee Greenwood CD's".

Not at all. You've never been to an American Kareoke bar have you?

Actually, I was refering to ExtraordinaryRendition-ice.