Damn straight he's ahead of Gannon. I'd rank Fouts in the top 10 of all QBs I've seen. In his day he transcended the game and dominated his position for 5 solid years. If he had even a mediocre defense, the Bolts would have been in a couple of Super Bowls.poptart wrote:It's true, B, that any QB making it to the hall will get help along the way.
Some more than others.
Elway, for example, got relatively little help.
Fouts put up BIG numbers with the help of quality skill people.
Placed in a different system, different folks surrounding him, I'm not sure he'd have put what he did.
Where would you rank Fouts as an all-time qb.....?
Top 5...?
Top 10....?
Top 15....?
20.....?
I know, I know.........ahead of Gannon.
mvscal wrote:Shannon Sharpe is first ballot lock. Smith and McCaffery were an above average duo as well. A 2,000 yard running back didn't hurt either.poptart wrote:Elway, for example, got relatively little help.
John Boehner wrote:Boehner said. "In Congress, we have a red button, a green button and a yellow button, alright. Green means 'yes,' red means 'no,' and yellow means you're a chicken shit. And the last thing we need in the White House, in the oval office, behind that big desk, is some chicken who wants to push this yellow button.
Would that be the three Superbowls that Denver lost?KC Paul 3.0 wrote:I think Pops was referring to the pre-RATahan years when Ol' Horseface didn't have the likes of that cut-blocking O-line, TD, Rod Smith, Stanley Sharp, and Easy (to HIT) Ed McCaffrey at his disposal.
You take self-administered ass-kickings to a new level..........KC Paul 3.0 wrote:Why YES, Felix.Felix wrote:Would that be the three Superbowls that Denver lost?KC Paul 3.0 wrote:I think Pops was referring to the pre-RATahan years when Ol' Horseface didn't have the likes of that cut-blocking O-line, TD, Rod Smith, Stanley Sharp, and Easy (to HIT) Ed McCaffrey at his disposal.
Exactly.KC Paul 3.0 wrote:I think Pops was referring to the pre-RATahan years when Ol' Horseface didn't have the likes of that cut-blocking O-line, TD, Rod Smith, Stanley Sharp, and Easy (to HIT) Ed McCaffrey at his disposal.poptart wrote:Elway, for example, got relatively little help.
Common sense, Rozy Palms.....USE IT once in awhile.
Maybe that's why Elway's TD line looked like this for the first 9 years of his career?poptart wrote:Exactly. Elway flat CARRIED the Mules to multiple AFC Titles in his "early" years. Later, he got much help, and he also matured a bit, and he got over the top.
Yes, the DEFENSE. Maybe it comes from being a Steelers fan.Question was asked to Al Davis. "Al, where do you rank Gannon among all-time Raider QBs?" Al said, 'We'll he had some great years. You have to look at the Super Bowls...ya gotta win'. Rich fell short. Along the same lines, what did Fouts win....?
In 15 yrs he won 3 AFC West titles and had a losing record in post-season play. I'd be VERY hard pressed to rate him among the top 10 qbs of all time. I think you have to WIN something. Maybe that's just me.
The DEEEEEEEEFENSE, poptart....................
Winder scored 9 TDs on the ground in 86 and 5 in the air. He and Wilhite combined for over 1000 yards rushing.poptart wrote:Early years.............
Yeah, Sammy Winder got the '86 team to the Super Bowl ............ with his 5 td and 3.3 yd avg.
Having the Browns defense on the field helped. As I recall, there were also some pass interference calls on that drive. Could it be that Rozelle was behind the whole thing????Oh...... must have been Mark Jackson, or......Steve Watson, or....... Vance Johnson......or......err... Must have been THE DRIVE that got 'em over the top. Yeah, getting it done in nut-cuttin' time with SUBPAR talent surrounding you.
Can you say FUMBLE? or are you trying to say that Elway also played free saftey for the Broncos?Same 'ol in '87.
Some driving force. In 89 he threw as many INTs as TDs. It was not until Ratahan that Elway even so much as posted a 2 to 1 TD to INT ratio.At least in '89 Bobby Humphrey was a "solid" runner and Vance Johnson developed into a pretty good one at WR. STILL, it is obvious to anyone who watched the Mules that Elway was the driving force behind those teams.
Leather helmet guys don't count.So Fouts is one of the top 10 QBs that you've seen. Ok, he's no Otto Graham, that is for damn sure. :wink:
Stockholm Syndrome would be my guess.poptart wrote:Geez, why is Raiduh fan in here propping up horseface, anyway....?
Yea, that would be an objective source. Who should I start with? The Bronco Bob? Icantstopsuckingass?If you don't think Elway carried the Mules in his early years then ask Donc fan what their opinion is.
OK, you can keep him out of your personal top 10. Besides, we all know your All Time Top 10 list looks like this anyway.I don't give a shit. Fouts is not in my top ten all-time.
Yes, Elway carried the Broncos for all of those years..........and to their three Superbowl losses.....poptart wrote: If you don't think Elway carried the Mules in his early years then ask Donc fan what their opinion is.
Nicemvscal wrote:He'd make Tom Coughlin look like a mild mannered hippy guidance counselor.
John Boehner wrote:Boehner said. "In Congress, we have a red button, a green button and a yellow button, alright. Green means 'yes,' red means 'no,' and yellow means you're a chicken shit. And the last thing we need in the White House, in the oval office, behind that big desk, is some chicken who wants to push this yellow button.
No, although I wouldn't oppose such a campaign if someone were to start oneFelix wrote:So Coods are you campaigning to have Fouts removed from the HOFCuda wrote:
And ZERO league titles- ZERO Super Bowl apperances. Which still makes him, despite all his stats,... what's the word I'm looking for? ... Oh, right... LOSER- that's the word!
Point is that if huge personal stats & longevity can offset the fact that a player is a loser when it comes to hall of fame consideration, then the hall of fame really isn't all that special. By that measure, they're long overdue inducting Steve Deberg- dude played like 25 years or somethingor what--I'm trying to see the point you're arguing here.........
WacoFan wrote:Flying any airplane that you can hear the radio over the roaring radial engine is just ghey anyway.... Of course, Cirri are the Miata of airplanes..
Vince Evans would be #2 on there, just like he's probably still #2 on the depth chart to this day.BSmack wrote: OK, you can keep him out of your personal top 10. Besides, we all know your All Time Top 10 list looks like this anyway.
Stabler
Plunkett
Lamonica
Gannon
Wilson
Hostetler
Flores
George
Marinovich
Schroeder
Mr. Ed also WON 2 SB's in a row. So he's 2 & 3 in super bowls- that's 5 more appearances than Dan Fucking Fouts has.Felix wrote:Yes, Elway carried the Broncos for all of those years..........and to their three Superbowl losses.....poptart wrote: If you don't think Elway carried the Mules in his early years then ask Donc fan what their opinion is.
WacoFan wrote:Flying any airplane that you can hear the radio over the roaring radial engine is just ghey anyway.... Of course, Cirri are the Miata of airplanes..
Farts sat next to Dennis Miller in the booth for a couple o' years.Cuda wrote:Mr. Ed also WON 2 SB's in a row. So he's 2 & 3 in super bowls- that's 5 more appearances than Dan Fucking Fouts has.Felix wrote:Yes, Elway carried the Broncos for all of those years..........and to their three Superbowl losses.....poptart wrote: If you don't think Elway carried the Mules in his early years then ask Donc fan what their opinion is.
WacoFan wrote:Flying any airplane that you can hear the radio over the roaring radial engine is just ghey anyway.... Of course, Cirri are the Miata of airplanes..
I get the idea you don't think too much of Fouts.........Cuda wrote:
Point is that if huge personal stats & longevity can offset the fact that a player is a loser when it comes to hall of fame consideration, then the hall of fame really isn't all that special. By that measure, they're long overdue inducting Steve Deberg- dude played like 25 years or something
He was better than Steve Ramsey & Jim ZornFelix wrote:I get the idea you don't think too much of Fouts.........Cuda wrote:
Point is that if huge personal stats & longevity can offset the fact that a player is a loser when it comes to hall of fame consideration, then the hall of fame really isn't all that special. By that measure, they're long overdue inducting Steve Deberg- dude played like 25 years or something
WacoFan wrote:Flying any airplane that you can hear the radio over the roaring radial engine is just ghey anyway.... Of course, Cirri are the Miata of airplanes..
