Fantasy Football Opinion

rozy · Post by **rozy** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 3:34 pm

My keepers are
Vick
Muhammed
Roy Williams
Barber

So, I need a WR and an RB.

The league has a practice squad which is where I kept Roy Williams at all of last year without playing him where I could keep him in addition to the 3 keepers. I finished in 2nd place in this league last year so I have the 2nd pick in the rookie draft. I can approach it one of 2 ways. Take the best player available and then only use him if I have to or hold him over as an extra keeper for next year. The problem with that is there is not much left in the regular draft by way of running backs.

So, my choices are:

Alex Smith (I will not draft a Frisco QB no matter the level of my affinity for Smith, plus I think the first guy is going to take him)
Braylon Edwards (I would hold him over til the next year)

..and then the crux of my dilemma
Benson-in a fight for a starter's job in a shitty offense
Cadillac-has to beat out Pittman, may or may not so risky
Ronnie Brown- Ricky Williams
J.J. Arrington- My biggest problem in this scenario. He will win the job in Arizona, so do I spend a high pick on a second round back? I don't think I can get a better RB in the regular draft.

And I am not interested in Williams or Williamson. I already have one Lion WR and Williamson is raw...very raw.

Who is most likely to have the greatest impact THIS year?

Thoughts?

Felix · Post by **Felix** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 3:53 pm

Michael Bennett might not be a bad pick at RB, with Onterrio Smith being gone.......

jiminphilly · Post by **jiminphilly** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 4:00 pm

rozy wrote:My keepers are
Vick
Muhammed
Roy Williams
Barber

So, I need a WR and an RB.

The league has a practice squad which is where I kept Roy Williams at all of last year without playing him where I could keep him in addition to the 3 keepers. I finished in 2nd place in this league last year so I have the 2nd pick in the rookie draft. I can approach it one of 2 ways. Take the best player available and then only use him if I have to or hold him over as an extra keeper for next year. The problem with that is there is not much left in the regular draft by way of running backs.

So, my choices are:

Alex Smith (I will not draft a Frisco QB no matter the level of my affinity for Smith, plus I think the first guy is going to take him)
Braylon Edwards (I would hold him over til the next year)

..and then the crux of my dilemma
Benson-in a fight for a starter's job in a shitty offense
Cadillac-has to beat out Pittman, may or may not so risky
Ronnie Brown- Ricky Williams
J.J. Arrington- My biggest problem in this scenario. He will win the job in Arizona, so do I spend a high pick on a second round back? I don't think I can get a better RB in the regular draft.

And I am not interested in Williams or Williamson. I already have one Lion WR and Williamson is raw...very raw.

Who is most likely to have the greatest impact THIS year?

Thoughts?

Do you have to keep 4? If so, I guess I can understand you keeping Barber and Muhammed, especially if the RB pickings are slim. But I think Cadillac is worthy of the first pick, especially in a John Gruden offense. Pittman was a nice stop-gap for them but he's been a 3rd tier RB for most of his career and he has fumbling problems and I think I read that Caddy is 1st on the depth chart.

Ronnie Brown would probably be my next selection. Ricky has a long way to go before he's ready to come back. He's too small, the drug ban is still looming over his head (pun intended) and I'd question his heart. He's back to avoid giving back the money, that's it.

After that I think it's a crap shoot.. Any AZ player is hard to count on and so it goes for Arrington. Rookie WR's are not worth counting on for an immediate impact (and WR's are usually a dime a dozen in ff) so Edwards shouldn't be taken anywhere near the top.

Can you post the rest of your roster that you are able to consider as keepers?

Just my 2 cents.

DrDetroit · Post by **DrDetroit** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 4:00 pm

What about the Lions' Kevin Jones?

Little over 1100 yds last year on about 240 carries (4.7 per) with 5 TD's.

The Lions improved their O-line this off season and with Rogers back at WR and Williams' also at WR hopefully making the passing game more efficient, Jones could be shooting for 1500 with 10-15 TD's.

I guess it all depends whether you think Harrington can get the job done in the passing game...

Take a peek, though.

Edit: Oooops, looks like you were talking about the rookie draft.

jiminphilly · Post by **jiminphilly** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 4:04 pm

DrDetroit wrote:What about the Lions' Kevin Jones?

Little over 1100 yds last year on about 240 carries (4.7 per) with 5 TD's.

The Lions improved their O-line this off season and with Rogers back at WR and Williams' also at WR hopefully making the passing game more efficient, Jones could be shooting for 1500 with 10-15 TD's.

I guess it all depends whether you think Harrington can get the job done in the passing game...

Take a peek, though.

Edit: Oooops, looks like you were talking about the rookie draft.

I'm pretty sure in a keeper league if Tiki Barber is being kept, so is Kevin Jones. But I like him too-- somewhat of a local kid so I follow him too.

rozy · Post by **rozy** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 4:19 pm

This is only a rookie draft.

Jones was kept.

Jim, I am inclined to agree with you on WR, which is why I will likely go with an RB. I understand what you are saying about the Brown-Williams deal but this pick is quite important so I can't risk the pick on a RB that may end up being a backup.

Benson will probably beat out T. Jones but one Chicago offensive player is too much already for me. (Had I known Muhsin would be going to Chicago I would have tried to trade him. He was the #1 fantasy WR last year so I really had no choice but to stick with him.)

So it leaves me to Cadillac or Arrington. Say what you will about Arizona, they look damn good going into camp. I had Pittman last year and from a fantasy perspective he was highly instrumental in getting me into the Championship game.

Here are the available RBs that were not kept including the salary to the right (rookie salaries in bold):
L Jordan, OAK (26)
C Williams, TB (25)
D Foster, CAR (23)
C Benson, CHI (23)
M Bennett, MIN (22)
D Staley, PIT (21)
R Brown, MIA (21)
W Dunn, ATL (20)
J Arrington, ARI (19)
L Suggs, CLE (19)
K Barlow, SF (19)
M Shipp, ARI (18)
M Moore, MIN (18)
T Henry, TEN (17)
C Brown, TEN (17)
L Toefield, JAX (17)
T Jones, CHI (15)
T Duckett, ATL (15)
R Williams, MIA (15)
C Buckhalter, PHI (14)
M Faulk, STL (13)
J Bettis, PIT (13)
W Green, CLE (12)
L Gordon, MIA (11)
M Pittman, TB (11)
S Davis, CAR (11)
E Shelton, CAR (10)
D Blaylock, NYJ (10)
F Gore, SF (10)
C Garner, TB (10)
E George, DAL (9)
M Cloud, NYG (9)
A Thomas, DAL (8)
C Taylor, BAL (8)
M Clarett, DEN (8)
M Alstott, TB (8)
T Wheatley, OAK (7)
G Jones, JAX (7)
S Bryson, DET (6)
C Faison, MIN (6)

14 team league, half of which will be taking a QB in the first round. I have Vick so I can take a RB if need be. But them there is slim pickin's.

I am not in any salary cap problem since my QB is only 16 bucks.

Nixhex · Post by **Nixhex** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 4:23 pm

I'd go with Braylon Edwards. The Browns will be behind in a lot of games. Hence a lot of passing to catch up. He will get a lot of playing time as well.

rozy · Post by **rozy** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 4:35 pm

2 alternate ways of approaching the question:

Better year this year: Benson, Williams, Brown, or Arrington

Better career: Benson, Williams, Brown, or Arrington

Nix, if I thought I could get Jordan or Dunn in the first round of the regular draft I would take Edwards or Alex Smith and wouldn't think twice. I would then just put them on the Practice Squad and leave them there all year like I did with Roy Williams. 14 team league I pick 13th in the regular draft. Dunn and Jordan will be gone.

jiminphilly · Post by **jiminphilly** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 4:38 pm

rozy wrote:This is only a rookie draft.

Jones was kept.

Jim, I am inclined to agree with you on WR, which is why I will likely go with an RB. I understand what you are saying about the Brown-Williams deal but this pick is quite important so I can't risk the pick on a RB that may end up being a backup.

Benson will probably beat out T. Jones but one Chicago offensive player is too much already for me. (Had I known Muhsin would be going to Chicago I would have tried to trade him. He was the #1 fantasy WR last year so I really had no choice but to stick with him.)

So it leaves me to Cadillac or Arrington. Say what you will about Arizona, they look damn good going into camp. I had Pittman last year and from a fantasy perspective he was highly instrumental in getting me into the Championship game.

Here are the available RBs that were not kept including the salary to the right (rookie salaries in bold):
L Jordan, OAK (26)
C Williams, TB (25)
D Foster, CAR (23)
C Benson, CHI (23)
M Bennett, MIN (22)
D Staley, PIT (21)
R Brown, MIA (21)
W Dunn, ATL (20)
J Arrington, ARI (19)
L Suggs, CLE (19)
K Barlow, SF (19)
M Shipp, ARI (18)
M Moore, MIN (18)
T Henry, TEN (17)
C Brown, TEN (17)
L Toefield, JAX (17)
T Jones, CHI (15)
T Duckett, ATL (15)
R Williams, MIA (15)
C Buckhalter, PHI (14)
M Faulk, STL (13)
J Bettis, PIT (13)
W Green, CLE (12)
L Gordon, MIA (11)
M Pittman, TB (11)
S Davis, CAR (11)
E Shelton, CAR (10)
D Blaylock, NYJ (10)
F Gore, SF (10)
C Garner, TB (10)
E George, DAL (9)
M Cloud, NYG (9)
A Thomas, DAL (8)
C Taylor, BAL (8)
M Clarett, DEN (8)
M Alstott, TB (8)
T Wheatley, OAK (7)
G Jones, JAX (7)
S Bryson, DET (6)
C Faison, MIN (6)

14 team league, half of which will be taking a QB in the first round. I have Vick so I can take a RB if need be. But them there is slim pickin's.
I am not in any salary cap problem since my QB is only 16 bucks.

Is it possible to trade a rookie draft pick for a current player? Because this pick is essentially going to be your 2nd RB- You're counting on a rookie RB to provide the same scoring as an established starter like A. Green. I think I would be more comfortable drafting a rookie RB if I had a keeper like LT or Shaun Alexander but Barber is a tough guy to count on as your legit #1. (but you also said you finished in 2nd place.. who was your other RB?)

Tough call but you proved you know what your doing with a 2nd place finish.

jiminphilly · Post by **jiminphilly** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 4:41 pm

Nixhex wrote:I'd go with Braylon Edwards. The Browns will be behind in a lot of games. Hence a lot of passing to catch up. He will get a lot of playing time as well.

He'll go up against the Steelers and Ravens defense 2x - no thanks.

rozy · Post by **rozy** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 5:12 pm

jiminphilly wrote:Is it possible to trade a rookie draft pick for a current player? Because this pick is essentially going to be your 2nd RB- You're counting on a rookie RB to provide the same scoring as an established starter like A. Green. I think I would be more comfortable drafting a rookie RB if I had a keeper like LT or Shaun Alexander but Barber is a tough guy to count on as your legit #1. (but you also said you finished in 2nd place.. who was your other RB?)

Tough call but you proved you know what your doing with a 2nd place finish.

Very competitive league. I wouldn't be able to pull off a trade of a rookie draft guy for a good RB. These guys are purty smart. Barber is actually a great FANTASY RB because of receptions and the number of long yardage plays he pulls off. My other RB was Pittman.

rozy · Post by **rozy** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 5:13 pm

mvscal wrote:
rozy wrote:I understand what you are saying about the Brown-Williams deal but this pick is quite important so I can't risk the pick on a RB that may end up being a backup.

If he's a keeper, why not? Williams will be showcased and moved this year not to mention the fact that he will miss four games due to suspension.

Brown should be the starter for next year and probably more than a couple games this year.

I agree with you, but too risky for me when there are other options. I'm not convinced also that Brown is simply better that Anderson or Arrington.

jiminphilly · Post by **jiminphilly** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 6:43 pm

rozy wrote:
jiminphilly wrote:Is it possible to trade a rookie draft pick for a current player? Because this pick is essentially going to be your 2nd RB- You're counting on a rookie RB to provide the same scoring as an established starter like A. Green. I think I would be more comfortable drafting a rookie RB if I had a keeper like LT or Shaun Alexander but Barber is a tough guy to count on as your legit #1. (but you also said you finished in 2nd place.. who was your other RB?)

Tough call but you proved you know what your doing with a 2nd place finish.
Very competitive league. I wouldn't be able to pull off a trade of a rookie draft guy for a good RB. These guys are purty smart. Barber is actually a great FANTASY RB because of receptions and the number of long yardage plays he pulls off. My other RB was Pittman.

Didn't mean to imply you'd get LT or Alexander but what about a guy like Kevin Jones? He's still unproven stats wise that an owner might trade him for Caddy or Ronnie Brown but capable of having a very big year with that Detroit offense (if Harrington grows a set).

Nixhex · Post by **Nixhex** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 7:05 pm

jiminphilly wrote:
Nixhex wrote:I'd go with Braylon Edwards. The Browns will be behind in a lot of games. Hence a lot of passing to catch up. He will get a lot of playing time as well.
He'll go up against the Steelers and Ravens defense 2x - no thanks.

That don't mean shit.

Sin,

Chad Johnson

rozy · Post by **rozy** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 7:24 pm

jiminphilly wrote:
rozy wrote:
jiminphilly wrote:Is it possible to trade a rookie draft pick for a current player? Because this pick is essentially going to be your 2nd RB- You're counting on a rookie RB to provide the same scoring as an established starter like A. Green. I think I would be more comfortable drafting a rookie RB if I had a keeper like LT or Shaun Alexander but Barber is a tough guy to count on as your legit #1. (but you also said you finished in 2nd place.. who was your other RB?)

Tough call but you proved you know what your doing with a 2nd place finish.
Very competitive league. I wouldn't be able to pull off a trade of a rookie draft guy for a good RB. These guys are purty smart. Barber is actually a great FANTASY RB because of receptions and the number of long yardage plays he pulls off. My other RB was Pittman.
Didn't mean to imply you'd get LT or Alexander but what about a guy like Kevin Jones? He's still unproven stats wise that an owner might trade him for Caddy or Ronnie Brown but capable of having a very big year with that Detroit offense (if Harrington grows a set).

I wouldn't trade Jones or an equivalent back for a rookie out of THIS class. Neither will the guys in this league.

jiminphilly · Post by **jiminphilly** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 7:30 pm

Nixhex wrote:
jiminphilly wrote:
Nixhex wrote:I'd go with Braylon Edwards. The Browns will be behind in a lot of games. Hence a lot of passing to catch up. He will get a lot of playing time as well.
He'll go up against the Steelers and Ravens defense 2x - no thanks.
That don't mean shit.

Sin,

Chad Johnson

Your comparing a top 5 WR in the NFL (who has had decent QBs during that time) to a rookie WR who'll have Trent Dilfer throwing him the ball?

:roll:

rozy · Post by **rozy** » Thu Aug 04, 2005 1:34 pm

I took the plunge and went with Arrington. The guy who picked first took Anderson and made my decision easier.

jiminphilly · Post by **jiminphilly** » Thu Aug 04, 2005 1:57 pm

rozy wrote:I took the plunge...

Sometimes those risks are what count at the end of the season. What does your roster look like?

rozy · Post by **rozy** » Thu Aug 04, 2005 2:00 pm

Regular draft starts this weekend. I may go crazy again and grab the Bills D in the first round. I can always pick up a 3rd WR.

At this point, I am banking on Vick taking a huge step forward which he is hopefully ready to do. The only way to offset is to have a top tier Fantasy point defense.

the_ouskull · Post by **the_ouskull** » Thu Aug 04, 2005 3:46 pm

If you're needing a rookie and a WR, why not go with Mark Clayton of the Ravens... IF HE EVER SIGNS !!! (Grrr...)

(P.S. -- They must REALLY be trying to 'f' him, 'cause he's not the "holdout" type...)

the_ouskull

jiminphilly · Post by **jiminphilly** » Thu Aug 04, 2005 4:33 pm

mvscal wrote:
rozy wrote:I am banking on Vick taking a huge step forward which

Actually from a FF perspective, Vick is valuable enough. He's a lot like Randall Cunningham only left handed. ]

He'll put up good numbers because of his rushing ability, he just won't win you any super bowls.

rozy · Post by **rozy** » Thu Aug 04, 2005 4:34 pm

mvscal wrote:
rozy wrote:I am banking on Vick taking a huge step forward which

Fantasy does not equal wins and losses and championships. Fantasy is based on offensive stats.

Why do you think Culpepper will be taken ahead of Insurance Adjustor in many FF drafts?

Besides, you and I both know this is one of those times we will not be in agreement.

You know, kind of like it being a travesty that Art Monk is not in the HOF... :wink:

rozy · Post by **rozy** » Thu Aug 04, 2005 4:58 pm

mvscal wrote:
rozy wrote:Fantasy does not equal wins and losses and championships. Fantasy is based on offensive stats.
Right and Vick is a shit fantasy QB, also.

Especially when you combine his rushing stats and TDs with his passing stats and TDs.

Sharpen your tool a little bit, Skippy.

jiminphilly · Post by **jiminphilly** » Thu Aug 04, 2005 5:40 pm

mvscal wrote:
rozy wrote:Fantasy does not equal wins and losses and championships. Fantasy is based on offensive stats.
Right and Vick is a shit fantasy QB, also.
*Depending upon the scoring system

(FTFY)

JHawkBCD · Post by **JHawkBCD** » Thu Aug 04, 2005 6:04 pm

mvscal wrote:
rozy wrote:
mvscal wrote: Right and Vick is a shit fantasy QB, also.
Especially when you combine his rushing stats and TDs with his passing stats and TDs.

Sharpen your tool a little bit, Skippy.
17 (combined rush/passing) touchdowns is a shit quarterback....period. You might as well have David Carr.

Per Charch @ Fanball.com:
"Michael Vick is the fantasy football equivalent of unprotected sex with Courtney Love... it's either going to be really great, or it's going to ruin you."

Sounds like your league over-emphasizes rushing stats for QBs.

Rack. Handicapping a league to give unnecessary bonuses to QB rushing stats is fookin' weak.

JHawkBCD · Post by **JHawkBCD** » Thu Aug 04, 2005 6:21 pm

rozy wrote:Slim Pickins.

Pickens, Slim; drafted in the 5th round for $40 by Panther in SoCal.

Post-draft quote from Duane: "FUCK!!! I THOUGHT IT WAS CARL PICKENS!!!"

jiminphilly · Post by **jiminphilly** » Thu Aug 04, 2005 6:22 pm

mvscal wrote:
JHawkBCD wrote:
mvscal wrote: 17 (combined rush/passing) touchdowns is a shit quarterback....period. You might as well have David Carr.
Per Charch @ Fanball.com:
"Michael Vick is the fantasy football equivalent of unprotected sex with Courtney Love... it's either going to be really great, or it's going to ruin you."

Sounds like your league over-emphasizes rushing stats for QBs.
Rack. Handicapping a league to give unnecessary bonuses to QB rushing stats is fookin' weak.
It's funny watching people bite on him every year. I think he was taken high in the second round last year and ended up as the 13th rated QB just barely edging out (undrafted) Joey Harrington by four points.

But I think I ready that Rozy is in an auction style league and if he paid $16 for him, thats not a bad deal for a 13th ranked qb in an auction league.

JHawkBCD · Post by **JHawkBCD** » Thu Aug 04, 2005 6:24 pm

jiminphilly wrote: But I think I ready that Rozy is in an auction style league and if he paid $16 for him, thats not a bad deal for a 13th ranked qb in an auction league.

???

Not when you can pick Joey Harrington up for $2, it ain't.

rozy · Post by **rozy** » Thu Aug 04, 2005 6:27 pm

JHawkBCD wrote:
jiminphilly wrote: But I think I ready that Rozy is in an auction style league and if he paid $16 for him, thats not a bad deal for a 13th ranked qb in an auction league.
???

Not when you can pick Joey Harrington up for $2, it ain't.

Harrington is 15 dollars. Vick is 16.

Thanks for ruining the bombshell, Jim.

There is a salary cap structure in place. Whereas Manning, Culpepper, Plummer, etc. are over 30 dollars, Vick is only 16. And I traded 30 dollar Holt to get him and free up salary room.

...and I finished second in the league. So I don't know what I'm doing.

JHawkBCD · Post by **JHawkBCD** » Thu Aug 04, 2005 6:47 pm

rozy wrote:
JHawkBCD wrote: Not when you can pick Joey Harrington up for $2, it ain't.
Harrington is 15 dollars. Vick is 16.

Just because your Fantasy Football Weekly cheat sheet says so, doesn't mean that he's worth it. Apparently, though, the money values you're talking about are not projected auction values, but some sort of goofy serpentine draft w/salary cap values governing who you can draft.

Serpentine drafts of any kind suck. Go auction and you'll never want to go back.

rozy · Post by **rozy** » Thu Aug 04, 2005 7:08 pm

JHawkBCD wrote:
rozy wrote:
JHawkBCD wrote: Not when you can pick Joey Harrington up for $2, it ain't.
Harrington is 15 dollars. Vick is 16.
Just because your Fantasy Football Weekly cheat sheet says so, doesn't mean that he's worth it. Apparently, though, the money values you're talking about are not projected auction values, but some sort of goofy serpentine draft w/salary cap values governing who you can draft.

Serpentine drafts of any kind suck. Go auction and you'll never want to go back.

No argument at all with that. It is what it is, and so far I have been successful making the best of it.

T1B

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