The Wine List

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Re: The Wine List

Post by Dinsdale »

IndyFrisco wrote:Honestly, is there any "good" white zins at all? Not "great" mind you, but good? Seriously, I think all I've ever had in the white zin category is Berenger, Franzia, Gallo, etc. Mostly your garden variety larger manufacturers.

Shirley, somebody has to make one.

But I've never heard of a handmade/small batch white zin -- most small batch winemakers wouldn't do that to their zin, since chances are they hand-picked the grapes they bought, and weren't about to blow their grape budget on the shitty grapes that go into the mass-produced white zin.

No reason they couldn't -- I've just never heard of it.

Such a waste. Properly grown zin can be awesome. Due to the funky nature of its clusters, which are generally very large, very tight, and have inconsistant berry sizes, zin is a great grape to go the "let 'em hang" route -- leaving them on the vine until the weather dictates that they absolutely must be harvested -- which much of NoCal is good for. Some of the berries, especially on the outside of the cluster, can start to raisin -- which gets the sugars (brix, in winespeak) way up there, which compensates for the berries that didn't fully ripen. The different stages of ripeness found in zin clusters have different fruit characteristics, which is what gives zin its nice complexity.

Most other grapes don't have that big a difference in berry size, and ripen much more evenly.

Had some zin years ago that raisined so much that the resulting sugars were so high that they hit the "kill zone" -- the point at which the concentration of alcohol creates a toxic environment for the yeast, and kills it off, which happens at about 17-18% ABV (depending on the yeast and ambient conditions). When you start talking about the high-dollar Napa zins, they then take the partially-fermented wine, then there's a contractor that puts it through a reverse-osmosis filter, which takes the alcohol out. Then the winemaker sits down and does some math, and figures out how much alcohol he can put back in and still have the remaining sugars ferment-to-dry, without going over 17% (probably less, since that hot a wine usually tastes... hot. Need lots and lots of acid and residual sweetness from the glycols and whatnot to mask that much alcohol).

Kind of fascinating stuff, but again, you only see that technique with the really high end shit.

Rumor has it that you can make some really good zin by sneaking around Napa Valley late at night and plucking off the remaining small clusters that the mexis were too lazy (or more likely, too unmotivated, since they're often paid by the poiund) to pick -- there's always a few clusters left after the crews go through, and the otherwise high-end grapes would just rot, so a few bucketloads late at night can produce some nice homebrew...

Or so I've heard.

I've also heard that if you wander out into the really big name Napa vineyards after winter pruning, you can get some really nice cuttings to use as starts in your own backyard vineyard in the U&L...

Or so I've heard.
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Re: The Wine List

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Mikey wrote:Chardonnay is OK, but a lot of them are too fruity for my taste.

Since this area is "Burgundy Of The West," I see chard... tons of it (literally, actually).

And like most Burgundies, the terroir comes into play in a big way -- maybe only exceeded by pinot noir in terms of how soil and microclimate affect the fruit.

And yeah, a lot of them taste like spiked grape juice.

And large scale vineyards and small operations alike will often overcrop them (getting way too many tons-per-acre), and they don't develop all of the nice charcteristics that chard can have.

On the other hand, the market doesn't bear too many bottles of $12 chard, so it is what it is.
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Re: The Wine List

Post by Mikey »

Seems like chardonnay got real popular with the wine sipping in the hot tub yuppie crowd back in the 80s. That's about when I developed a distaste for it, probably because it suddenly got overproduced. The one's I've had lately have been pretty decent for the most part.

Some pretty good medium priced sauv blancs coming from New Zealand lately too.
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Re: The Wine List

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Mikey wrote:Some pretty good medium priced sauv blancs coming from New Zealand lately too.
On the rare occasions I actually pay for vino, my money is staying in either Oregon, Washington, or California.

California is much better at cranking out mass-produced swill than anywhere... especially France. French swill is usually particularly heinous. Italian swill is better, but still not up to California swill standards.

Eastern Washington can crank out decent swill as well... it's just not as common as the California swill.

Southern Oregon cranks out decent swill, but they're not at grips with it being swill, and price it at a premium. They want to grow chewey bordeauxs, but most years, it's too friggin hot there, and they don't get full developement, and end up harvesting in early September, on an occasion. In Napa, Mother Nature usually lets them harvest when they damn well please, and the zin gets plucked really late, late October/early November, which leads to some nice fruit.

Napa isn't just a name where pricey wines are made -- they have the climate to back it up. Long growing season, hot as hell in the day, and gets the nice blanket of cool moist air every night, which clears out and dries up early in the day... which is perfect. I think Sonoma gets a little warmer, but it's the same overall concept.
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Re: The Wine List

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I've had a couple Oregon Pinot Gris wines before. Neither were memorable enough to remeber the kind I had though. I do remember paying like $17 for it thinking it was not worth the price tag. Hell, Vendange made a Pinot Grigio that I thought was better and sold it for $8/1.5L. My wife drinks that all the time....or used to. Can't find the Vendange Pinot Grigio on any shelves around here anymore.
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Re: The Wine List

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Dinsdale wrote:
Mikey wrote:Some pretty good medium priced sauv blancs coming from New Zealand lately too.
On the rare occasions I actually pay for vino, my money is staying in either Oregon, Washington, or California.

California is much better at cranking out mass-produced swill than anywhere... especially France. French swill is usually particularly heinous. Italian swill is better, but still not up to California swill standards.

Eastern Washington can crank out decent swill as well... it's just not as common as the California swill.

Southern Oregon cranks out decent swill, but they're not at grips with it being swill, and price it at a premium. They want to grow chewey bordeauxs, but most years, it's too friggin hot there, and they don't get full developement, and end up harvesting in early September, on an occasion. In Napa, Mother Nature usually lets them harvest when they damn well please, and the zin gets plucked really late, late October/early November, which leads to some nice fruit.

Napa isn't just a name where pricey wines are made -- they have the climate to back it up. Long growing season, hot as hell in the day, and gets the nice blanket of cool moist air every night, which clears out and dries up early in the day... which is perfect. I think Sonoma gets a little warmer, but it's the same overall concept.
Chile and Argentina can also crank out some decent swill.
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Re: The Wine List

Post by Dr_Phibes »

More of an etiquette question than anything. I can only drink white - so when off to a dinner with the chattering classes, it's all I'll bring. If you brought a rosé in place of a red - would you be considered a wanker
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Re: The Wine List

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Dr_Phibes wrote: If you brought a rosé in place of a red - would you be considered a wanker
:?:
Depends on what is being served.
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Re: The Wine List

Post by Dr_Phibes »

Well barring that, that's not an aspect I know - you take your chances. Just wondered if their was a social stigma to it, I can't think of a dinner I've been to where a bottle of rosé has been brought or offered by anyone.
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Re: The Wine List

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There's nothing wrong with a good rose. A great summer wine that pairs with a fairly broad selection of different foods. If you don't know what's being served, it is actually a pretty good choice.
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Re: The Wine List

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Dinsdale wrote:Image

Lately, this has been all over U&L grocery stores, sometimes as low as $7.

Outstanding value. Not sure how far away it makes it.
The PA Booze Cartel Liquor Control Board has allowed this one through. I have had it, very nice...markup is big, as you can imagine
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Re: The Wine List

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Goober McTuber wrote:Chile and Argentina can also crank out some decent swill.

No, not really.


PSUFAN wrote:
Dinsdale wrote:Image

Lately, this has been all over U&L grocery stores, sometimes as low as $7.

Outstanding value. Not sure how far away it makes it.
The PA Booze Cartel Liquor Control Board has allowed this one through. I have had it, very nice...markup is big, as you can imagine

Very nice cheap wine. I don't think I'd want to pay big bucks for it, but for 7 bones, it's tough to beat.

Matter of fact, several weeks back, I went to a wine party. The theme was to bring a bottle (in the $10-$20 range) of a Northwest red, was the stipulation. The bottles were brought to the house in bags, where our host (and very old buddy of mine) wrapped them, and put a number tag on each bottle, so it was completely blind. Everyone voted on their favorite after much sampling. My winemaking buddy cut his own throat by bringing two different vintages of cab -- since between the two, they garnered the most votes (probably because they were the best wines there) -- but between splitting the votes among two, he didn't "win." (He abstained from the voting, as did the host and his wife.) But for my entry, I had a point to make, and I made it well -- I snuck in a bottle of the Snoqualmie...

And it took 2nd place, and this horribly egotistical chick who unfortunately attended knew which bottle she brought, and swayed votes to it, thereby corrupting the fairness... so among the non-rigged voting, the Snoqualmie essentailly won... and I laughed.
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Re: The Wine List

Post by Goober McTuber »

Dinsdale wrote:
Goober McTuber wrote:Chile and Argentina can also crank out some decent swill.

No, not really.

Yes, they really do.
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Re: The Wine List

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Then by all means, drink those $5 bottles from Chile... because they're sooooo good.

With that level of "refined palate," I'd in fact suggest never spending more than $5 on a bottle of vino.


But you went all Goobs, once again. Instead of responding to the point at hand, you once again fantasized about the topic that wasn't at hand.


I mentioned California's ability to crank out swill. To even try and compare South American swill to California swill at any swill price point is fucking ludicrous.
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Re: The Wine List

Post by indyfrisco »

I've never had a good Chilean wine. Granted, I've probably had at most 10 different Chilean bottles and none cost more than $20/bottle, and that's liquor store price, not at a dinner out. I've written Chile off my wine desire list.
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Re: The Wine List

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Jesus Christ, Dinsufferable, I never claimed that any South American country cranked out more decent swill that California. Only that they could also make SOME decent swill. Just as you mentioned Eastern Washington and Oregon as producing SOME decent swill. And I never suggested buying the $5 bottles. I’m sure you’re not a complete jerk in real life, you just play one on the internet. And you play it well.

Indy, I have spoken with more than one sommelier who felt that there were good values to be had in South American wines. Try Santa Ema 2006 Maipo Valley Reserve Merlot or Terra Andina 2008 Valle Centrale Reserva Pinot Noir. Both were suggested to me by the glass in a restaurant, and I’ve bought both by the bottle since.
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Re: The Wine List

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Goober McTuber wrote:Merlot

Fag.
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Re: The Wine List

Post by Goober McTuber »

Dinsdale wrote:
Goober McTuber wrote:Merlot

Fag.

Hey, I’m trolling a guy that likes to partake of fellatio. Cut me some slack.
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Re: The Wine List

Post by Dinsdale »

I will indeed cut you some slack, because you're from Wisconsin...

Goober McTuber wrote:I have spoken with more than one sommelier

... but just so's you know, the guy on his way to being passed out on Boone's Farm in front of the restaurant isn't a "sommelier"...


although I'm sure he really digs on that South American shit.
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Re: The Wine List

Post by Goober McTuber »

Yes, I know what a sommelier is, and we do have them in Wisconsin. At least, in the more civilized areas. It's a shame you're so fucking provincial, but it is amusing.
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Re: The Wine List

Post by indyfrisco »

Got some 2" thick ribeyes over lunch along with some produce to make my chutney marinade.

1 red onion
2 bunches cilantro
10 cloves garlic
2 jalapenos
1 serrano pepper
montreal steak seasoning
coarse sea salt
olive oil

Put everything in food processer and pulse until it is still a little chunky. Pour olive oil in and pulse until you get a good spreadable consistency. Now, I use a food saver vacuum seal canister, but you can do the same thing with a plastic bag. Lather all sides of the steak very thick and seal and fridge. 24 hours is best. Since I used a vac sealer, a couple hours most is all it needs. I will be grilling them up tonight.

Oh, and to stay on topicl, I picked a bottle of this up for the meal.It was normally $22 on sale for $14. A very good wine to go with steak. Also on the menu is twice baked BBQ potatoes.

Image
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Re: The Wine List

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I fukkin' hate wine reviews. They are the gaxest thing ever written. Hints of this, mouthfeel, blah, blah, blah....I'll bet your favorite mouth feel is when it's full of sergio's cahk.

I have heard one awesome wine review in my life. It was provided by a little old dago running a wine shop in a beautiful little village about an hour south of naples. The real naples in italy, not florida.

Me and a buddy walk into his shop looking for a few bottles of some cheap but easy to pound stuff we had found a few days earlier in naples. We found what appeared to be the stuff by the picture on the label, but, when we got to the counter he rang it up and it was like 4X the price of the stuff we had before.

"Wait a fukkin' minute, Luigi, we paid 2000 lira for this shit the other day, why you trying to jam us like that?" Or words to that effect.

Luigi gave us that condescending look euros give americans, walked over to the shelf and grabbed an almost identical bottle "You wanna dees?" He said.

Yeah, I guess.

(holding up the expensive stuff) "Deesa wine eees a gooda to drink.

(holding up the italian ripple) "deesa wine eees a gooda to washa you hands"

Till this day I am a fan of hand washing wine. Guess i'm to wine what wags is to beer.
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Re: The Wine List

Post by Mikey »

When you get to the wine thasa gooda for a high colonic, you'll know you've reached nirvana.
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Re: The Wine List

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Mikey wrote:When you get to the wine thasa gooda for a high colonic, you'll know you've reached nirvana.
FUCK!!!! I missed the turn!!
Woman accused of giving husband lethal sherry enema

By RICHARD STEWART
HOUSTON CHRONICLE

HOUSTON -- Investigators say a woman caused her husband's death by giving him a sherry enema, leading to alcohol poisoning.

The enema caused his blood alcohol level to soar to 0.47 percent -- almost six times the legal intoxication limit in Texas, a toxicology report showed.

Tammy Jean Warner, 42, was indicted on a charge of negligent homicide. She is also charged with burning the will of her husband, Michael Warner, a month before his death on May 21.

Michael Warner, a 58-year-old machine shop owner, had a long history of alcoholism but couldn't ingest alcohol by mouth because of painful medical problems with his throat, said Lake Jackson, Texas, police detective Robert Turner. The enema was a way he could become intoxicated without drinking alcohol, Turner said.

http://www.seattlepi.com/national/21057 ... y03ww.html
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Re: The Wine List

Post by PSUFAN »

Well, I guess there are folks who will do just about anything to get a buzz...I've read it all now.

Death by Sherry fucking Enema...sicker than the crackhead mom jumping up from giving birth to go sell her ass for a fix.
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Re: The Wine List

Post by Dinsdale »

Just out of curiosity, does the sherry bottle need to be inserted all the way balls deep?

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Re: The Wine List

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mvscal wrote:
Mikey wrote:When you get to the wine thasa gooda for a high colonic, you'll know you've reached nirvana.
FUCK!!!! I missed the turn!!
Woman accused of giving husband lethal sherry enema

By RICHARD STEWART
HOUSTON CHRONICLE

HOUSTON -- Investigators say a woman caused her husband's death by giving him a sherry enema, leading to alcohol poisoning.

The enema caused his blood alcohol level to soar to 0.47 percent -- almost six times the legal intoxication limit in Texas, a toxicology report showed.

Tammy Jean Warner, 42, was indicted on a charge of negligent homicide. She is also charged with burning the will of her husband, Michael Warner, a month before his death on May 21.

Michael Warner, a 58-year-old machine shop owner, had a long history of alcoholism but couldn't ingest alcohol by mouth because of painful medical problems with his throat, said Lake Jackson, Texas, police detective Robert Turner. The enema was a way he could become intoxicated without drinking alcohol, Turner said.

http://www.seattlepi.com/national/21057 ... y03ww.html
Wow...I read that story years ago. Lake Jackson, TX is my hometown.
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Re: The Wine List

Post by Go Coogs' »

Image

I enjoy this red blend with a nice juicy steak. The combination of the zinfandel, merlot and cabernet is a great substitute for people who aren't into strong reds. It's soft with a spicy kick at the end of each swig. I highly recommend it. It's $12 in stores and usually runs around $35 a bottle in high class restaurants.


For whites, I usually go with a sauvignon blanc. I prefer this over any other brand:

Image

It is also good with steak, but I prefer it with fish over anything else. Price is usually around $12 in stores.
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Re: The Wine List

Post by Goober McTuber »

Image

I also have had this wine. Reasonable for the price.

You’ll notice that I didn’t make any snarky comments about you enjoying a ménage à trois because Rumplewife is the eqivalent of two women. Because I’m just not that kind of a guy.
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Re: The Wine List

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Go Coogs' wrote:Image

When I mentioned my old buddy is a winemaker...

He was the winemaker at Folie A Deux, years ago. I believe he was there when they first did the Menage a Trois.

Used to be owned by a couple of homos. Until Sutter Home bought it a few years ago, and now they crank out the corporate stuff.

And they even offer wine in little cardboard boxes these days... how special.
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Re: The Wine List

Post by Mikey »

Room temperature.

Pour it into a wide brimmed wine glass.

If you want to be really snobbish open it and let it sit for an hour before pouring, or pour it into a decanter (to get the full essence of wild berries, plums and anise :meds: ).

Me, I would just open it and pour half into a water glass and drink it. But not chilled.
And definitely at least pour it out before drinking it. If you have a glass handy.
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Re: The Wine List

Post by indyfrisco »

What Mikey said. Room temp and drink out of any glass. Avoid Dixie cups if at all possible.
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Re: The Wine List

Post by Goober McTuber »

A water glass? Any glass? Why don’t you fucking peasants just buy a case of Boone’s Farm? Sheesh.

http://www.2basnob.com/wine-glasses.html
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Re: The Wine List

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Goober McTuber wrote:A water glass? Any glass? Why don’t you fucking peasants just buy a case of Boone’s Farm? Sheesh.

http://www.2basnob.com/wine-glasses.html
Just wow...

Image
Image
Image

I have 6-7 different sets of wine glasses. I thought the wife was just trying to fill the hutch with stemware. Looks like we're about halfway home. Recently, my wife came home with 2 new sets of wine glasses that have no stems. She says that's the "new thing in drinking wine". I must say, having the glass that is not easily tipped over by the little ones is nice.

Image
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Re: The Wine List

Post by Goober McTuber »

Yeah, that's a bit over the top. But there's this:
Hint: If you plan to serve several types of wine but don’t want to shell out the cash for several types of glassware, buy the generic tulip-shaped wine glasses.
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Re: The Wine List

Post by Goober McTuber »

TrendyFrisco wrote:Recently, my wife came home with 2 new sets of wine glasses that have no stems. She says that's the "new thing in drinking wine". I must say, having the glass that is not easily tipped over by the little ones is nice.

Image
The Stem vs. Stemless Tumblers

Personally, while I can appreciate the stylish good looks of the modern stemless tumbler, I am still partial to stemware.

Here's why:

1. I enjoy seeing the colors of the wine as I twirl it around without looking at fingerprints. (I know... I'm it's very anal of me!)

2. I drink fairly slowly and don't like my hands warming up the wine too quickly.

To be fair though, not every occasion is a formal one, and it's fun to be trendy from time to time.
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Re: The Wine List

Post by indyfrisco »

Meh, I may have paid for them, but I ddn't pick them out. I like them though.

Whatever faggot wrote that piece should be shot, though. Hands warming up the wine?
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Mikey
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Re: The Wine List

Post by Mikey »

We've got a set of those big balloon shaped glasses for the reds, and the narrower ones for the whites.
Cheap, from Cost Plus.

Fine for dinner but if I'm cooking or just farting around the house (not worrying about swirling the nectar of the gods and G0Ds around to appreciate the nose) it's easier to pour it into a clear short wide brimmed tumbler.
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indyfrisco
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Re: The Wine List

Post by indyfrisco »

We got a shitload of these cups from my wife's favorite pizza joint.

Image

Break out the jug of table red and I'll drink it out of these. The glass should fit the wine. :)
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Mikey
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Re: The Wine List

Post by Mikey »

OK, as long as we're into a confessional mode here...

I'll occasionally pour some chardonnay, sauvignon blanc or pinot grigio into a tall water glass...

...with ice.

:shock:
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