The Wine List

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The Wine List

Post by mvscal »

This forum needs some attention. This thread is for good wine reasonably priced not superb wine exhorbitantly priced or crap wine for stumblebums. I'm talking about quality wine in the $10-$20 bottle or so range for an average sit down dinner. There are a lot of good bargains in that range.
Last edited by mvscal on Sat May 08, 2010 3:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Wine List

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Cala Blanca Old Vine Garnacha from Spain $13 ($10 at Bevmo)

A very nice young red. Tart fruit up front with mild tannins which don't dominate. Nice long finish. Excellent bargain. Pairs well with Italian tomato based dishes, steak, lamb etc.
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Re: The Wine List

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"Bright medium red. Smoky cherry and dark berry aromas are enlivened by cracked pepper; picks up a cured meat note with air. Light and silky, with no tannins to get in the way of the silky-sweet red and dark berry flavors. This is extremely easy to drink and an outstanding value."
Had a couple of glasses of this at a Brazilian steak house for $7.50 a glass. Bought a couple of bottles the next day at $8 each. I realize that it falls slightly below your price range, but I've seen it offered for $12.50 a bottle if that makes you feel better. Outstanding for the price. Google it and see if you can find a bad review.

Edit: Damn if you didn't go ahead and post another Garnacha while I was putting together my post/taking a crap. Seriously, if you like Garnachas try this one. 2005 is the vintage I bought.
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Re: The Wine List

Post by Goober McTuber »

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Nice Pinot Noir from the U&L. I've seen it online for $23-30, bought it locally for $20.

Interesting review with a reply from the winery:
http://beyondthebottle.com/blog/2008/09 ... _noir.html
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Re: The Wine List

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Milbrandt Vineyards Traditions Riesling 2007 (Washington State) $13

Nice off dry Riesling. Apples and peach up front with a crisp stony, mineral finish. Good chit, mang.

Paired very well with BBQ'd pork top loin, wild rice and steamed asparagus w/butter & shallots.
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Re: The Wine List

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Would probably have worked with the breaded halibut cheeks I had tonight.
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Re: The Wine List

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Great thread.

I've been buying a lot of wine lately from Cameron Hughes through Costco. Believe it or not Costco has a very good selection in a whole range of prices. They usually have maybe 2 to 4 different CH bottles at any given time, and they cycle different varietals from different origins. Mostly in the $10 - $20 dollar range and usually taste a lot more expensive.

One of my favorites is the Lot 110 Los Carneros Pinot, at $14.99. Must have gone through a couple of dozen bottles last summer and fall, and just finished the last one from my pantry a couple of weeks ago.

http://chwine.com/wine/lot/110/

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Re: The Wine List

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I thought you said you were on the wagon? Die already you FAT drunken PEDOPHILE. Do it for the kiddies.
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Re: The Wine List

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Oh, fuck it. Have fun, stalkers.


http://www.lujonwinecellars.com/


Ain't a finer $20 bottle on the planet.

And the coming vintages are even better, although they're still in the barrel.
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Re: The Wine List

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Goober McTuber wrote:Image

Nice Pinot Noir from the U&L. I've seen it online for $23-30, bought it locally for $20.

Interesting review with a reply from the winery:
http://beyondthebottle.com/blog/2008/09 ... _noir.html

06 was a good year for Willamette/Yamhill Pinot. Seems ol' Ed was a little offended by the "bulk" accusation.

Oregon Pinot has become quite the rat race. There's literally hundreds of wineries making it, and a good chunk of them kinda suck. Yet (almost) everyone still wants $25 and up for them.

The winery I linked to above is located in the Yamhill Valley (sort of), and just plain refuses to make Pinot -- tough to market, tough to get shelf space, and unless you grow your own grapes, they're ridiculously expensive -- $2500 per ton and up, which prevailing wine economics dictates you need to get at least $25 a bottle for. And to get truly fine Pinot (we capitalize it here in Oregon), you need the right chunk of land -- southern exposure, all day sun, and the big one -- iron-rich soil ("red clay"), which really varies from hill to hill (if you're going for Pinot, a hillside is best, since it offers cold-drainage).

The best stuff comes from the Dundee Hills appellation (not all that far south of me), but expect to pay the big bucks for it.

Last week, I was hanging out at a winery, and the winemaker had us try some wines someone was trying to bulk out to him. A universal theme arose -- outside of a couple places in Santa Ynez that are OK,Souther California Pinots suck huge balls. Wrong grape, wrong climate, bad wine. Pinot likes cool night, with a little moisture in the morning, which must quickly dry (or the dreaded powdery mildew comes a'knockin). One sample was from Sierra Madre... it was "are you kidding me" bad. They all tend to be much more like strawberry jam than wine. There was a nice riesling in the bunch, but it was from Oregon.

If I could only drink one varietal from here out... I'd go with syrah... I'd be kinda fucked come poultry night... but nothing is carved in stone as far as pairings.


BTW -- don't call it "shiraz." Too Iranian (and no, syrah isn't from Iran/Persia).
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Re: The Wine List

Post by indyfrisco »

One of my favorite cheaper wines is from Australia. Yeah, it has a screw cap now. Ranges from $12-$15 most places.

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2008 Cabernet Merlot
Due to its class defying quality and appearance, Black Opal is the Australian gem that shines amongst the vast field of other Australian wines. A remarkably friendly and fruit-forward wine, Black Opal creates an impression of intrigue and sophistication at every occasion.

VITICULTURE
A variety of premium vineyard sites throughout South Eastern Australia were chosen for this wine. Fruit was selected for its color and flavor intensity.

VINIFICATION
Parcels of fruit were crushed and de-stemmed separately. Fermentation and cap management techniques were employed to extract the intense color, flavor and soft tannin from the skin while maintaining approachability. The wine then underwent partial oak maturation for nine months with some parcels being left un-oaked to enhance the primary fruit characters.

WINEMAKERS NOTES
The 2008 Black Opal Cabernet Merlot is deep crimson to purple. The aromas display excellent regional and varietal characters of berry and spice. These scents follow through with rich cherry and plum flavors, a hint of chocolate and a subtle touch of oak. The flavors develop well and finish with a long finely textured mouth feel. The Cabernet Sauvignon (60%) provides depth and cellaring potential. The Merlot (40%) in this well-balanced blend softens the palate to ensure this wine is enjoyable upon release.

SUGGESTED FOOD
Grilled T-Bone Steaks with Lemon Butter

CELLARING
Drink now to enjoy the fresh fruit characters of this wine.

TECHNICAL DETAILS
Alcohol: 13.5%
pH: 3.55
Acidity: 6.16g/L
Harvest Date: February - March 2008
V Satui in Napa makes one of my favorite table reds. At $15.75/bottle and 20% off by this case, this wine is a steal. Plus, it is like one of the only wineries open at 9 AM so you can get started there early if visiting the Valley.

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**NEW VINTAGE**
A medium bodied blend of Zinfandel, Cabernet and Syrah with lively raspberry, cherry & cranberry fruit has a “just-right” spice in the finish.

Case discount taken at checkout
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Re: The Wine List

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Speaking of syrah...I realize this is supposed to be a $10-$20 thread, but we just gave one of these to my sister-in-law, who has become quite the wine connoisseur (connoisseuse?) lately, for her birthday. Supposed to be one of the all-time syrahs, at least of recent years.

Image

I'm sorta jealous. I would like to get a taste.
I've never spent that much on a bottle for myself.

Wine Advocate

Notions of melted tar, blackberries, liquid minerals, and charcoal emerge from the inky/purple-colored 2003 Syrah Hickinbotham Vineyard. Revealing a meaty richness along with great concentration, length, purity, and definition, it is a tour de force in winemaking. This amazing Syrah should age effortlessly for two decades.

Score: 96. —Robert Parker, October 2005.


Wine Enthusiast

This Syrah—yes, Syrah, not Shiraz—has a mouthfeel that will make you swear, or call out to your deity of choice. Just velvety-smooth on the palate, with plump plum fruit that tightens up on the finish, which reprises the peppery-herb notes that first showed on the nose. It's certainly nothing you'd kick out of bed now, but will probably taste even better in five or six years.

Score: 94. —Daryna Tobey, March 01, 2005.
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Re: The Wine List

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Lately, this has been all over U&L grocery stores, sometimes as low as $7.

Outstanding value. Not sure how far away it makes it.

Mikey -- sounds good. ALTHOUGH -- some friends at a local winery did a little research -- they came up with a cool little spreadsheet (someone was bored) comparing the number of square inches of advertising space purchased to the average rating a winery receives from Wine Advocate...


Pretty corrupt shit. VERY consistent.

My buddy doesn't have the budget to buy that kind of ad space. He submitted samples of his first vintages, and got his "charity 89." Then, the trouble arose -- he didn't respond to all their pitches to buy ad space. His next sample was clearly a better wine, by all accounts, but since he didn't "play the game," it got an 86... which was laughable when compared to the one that scored the 89.

A full page ad usually boosts it to the 90's -- tough to crack 90 unless you're a major client of Advocate. I know they're trying to make a buck, but it's a deplorable practice.
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Re: The Wine List

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Mikey wrote:Speaking of syrah...I realize this is supposed to be a $10-$20 thread, but we just gave one of these to my sister-in-law, who has become quite the wine connoisseur (connoisseuse?) lately, for her birthday. Supposed to be one of the all-time syrahs, at least of recent years.

Absolutely off-the-wall question for you, Mikey, and from way out in left field...

But she doesn't happen to live in Carlsbad, does she?
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Re: The Wine List

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BTW -- the BEST. WINE. EVAR. Hasn't been made yet. First vintage is coming this fall.

It's the Casa De Dins Zin/Cab.

Entirely inappropriate climate, but on such a small scale, the climate issues can be manipulated.

Zin budbreaks ridiculously early around here for some reason, but it's planted in a low-risk spot for frost (which a huge tarp or two, or a couple of fans would fix anyway).

Have the services of a winemaker with 20+ years in the industry (pretty easy, since he's often passed out on my couch). Got enough access to equipment, labs, chemicals, and all that stuff to get serious about it.

Will be a fairly meager crop this year, will get several cases by next year, all the vines should be kicking full speed in a couple of years.

So here's to a warm late summer/early fall.
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Re: The Wine List

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Dinsdale wrote:
Mikey wrote:Speaking of syrah...I realize this is supposed to be a $10-$20 thread, but we just gave one of these to my sister-in-law, who has become quite the wine connoisseur (connoisseuse?) lately, for her birthday. Supposed to be one of the all-time syrahs, at least of recent years.

Absolutely off-the-wall question for you, Mikey, and from way out in left field...

But she doesn't happen to live in Carlsbad, does she?
Nope. Escondido.
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Re: The Wine List

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Dinsdale wrote:
Mikey -- sounds good. ALTHOUGH -- some friends at a local winery did a little research -- they came up with a cool little spreadsheet (someone was bored) comparing the number of square inches of advertising space purchased to the average rating a winery receives from Wine Advocate...


Pretty corrupt shit. VERY consistent.

My buddy doesn't have the budget to buy that kind of ad space. He submitted samples of his first vintages, and got his "charity 89." Then, the trouble arose -- he didn't respond to all their pitches to buy ad space. His next sample was clearly a better wine, by all accounts, but since he didn't "play the game," it got an 86... which was laughable when compared to the one that scored the 89.

A full page ad usually boosts it to the 90's -- tough to crack 90 unless you're a major client of Advocate. I know they're trying to make a buck, but it's a deplorable practice.
Not surprising at all. I don't generally read reviews anyway. I just pulled those up to get a general description.

You see 89s and 90s all over the place at Costco/the grocery store, and I'm never sure what the ratings really mean.

I went to a little wine merchant in San Marcos that the SIL referred me to, and went by their recommendation. It was near the top of their "library wine" rack, and I was told that it was very hard to find.

I probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference between the Clarendon and this one in a blind taste test.

Image

Well, maybe I could. But we've done a few of these Central Coast (67% Santa Ynez Valley, 33% Westside Paso Robles) syrahs and they are very, very good at about $12.00 or so.
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Re: The Wine List

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I've actually helped my buddy at events, and even done others outside of those. You could be missing half your taste buds, but if you're standing in a wine booth, it makes you an expert-by-default.

Anyhoo, people often say things like "we had a bottle of _____ with dinner last night, but we didn't pay much for it, so it's probably not very good."

Our response?

"Did it taste good? Did it add to your enjoyment of your meal? Then I guess it was good wine then, eh?"

If you have a line on a red that you really dig for $12 or less, ride that horse until it dies.
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Re: The Wine List

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Dinsdale wrote:If I could only drink one varietal from here out... I'd go with syrah... I'd be kinda fucked come poultry night... but nothing is carved in stone as far as pairings.
That depends. Roast birds go well with just about anything you like. Duck and goose, in particular, are suited for bigger reds. A young, fruit forward red also works with roast chicken and taters, turkey or Cornish hens.
BTW -- don't call it "shiraz." Too Iranian (and no, syrah isn't from Iran/Persia).
It's from the Rhone Valley in France actually.
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Re: The Wine List

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Dinsdale wrote:"Did it taste good? Did it add to your enjoyment of your meal? Then I guess it was good wine then, eh?"

If you have a line on a red that you really dig for $12 or less, ride that horse until it dies.
That's kinda what I'm shooting for here. I think people are kind of confused between good and great.

Personally, I'm not all that interested in great wine. I don't know much about it, so I doubt my palate is sophisticated enough to fully appreciate it anyway and the price point for that education is a wee bit out of reach.
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Re: The Wine List

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mvscal wrote: It's from the Rhone Valley in France actually.
Maybe not originally, but in its current clones, most certainly Rhone.

At some point, the Iranians/Persians were claiming some ownership of it... which it ain't.
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Re: The Wine List

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Dinsdale wrote:
mvscal wrote: It's from the Rhone Valley in France actually.
Maybe not originally, but in its current clones, most certainly Rhone.
It's pretty definitive.
...in 1998, scientists from the University of California at Davis and Montpellier University found that Syrah was in fact a cross between two southern French grapes Dureza and Mondeuse Blanche, scuppering any thoughts of middle eastern links.


http://www.westmountwine.co.uk/acatalog/Syrah.html
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Re: The Wine List

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mvscal wrote:I think people are kind of confused between good and great.
The ultimate standard -- did you think you got your money's worth when you chuck the empty?

S'what it's all about.

Then again, I rarely pay anything, and drink bunches of wine... which is nice.


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Re: The Wine List

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mvscal wrote:Syrah was in fact a cross between two southern French grapes Dureza and Mondeuse Blanche, scuppering any thoughts of middle eastern links.
Absolutely.

My point was going way back, to whatever crosspollenation of vinifera brought the parents of syrah about.
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Re: The Wine List

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In the past, we have ignored the fact that one of our own was diddling small children ('sup Tardowen?)
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Re: The Wine List

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Dinsdale wrote:BTW -- the BEST. WINE. EVAR. Hasn't been made yet. First vintage is coming this fall.

It's the Casa De Dins Zin/Cab.

Entirely inappropriate climate, but on such a small scale, the climate issues can be manipulated.

Zin budbreaks ridiculously early around here for some reason, but it's planted in a low-risk spot for frost (which a huge tarp or two, or a couple of fans would fix anyway).

Have the services of a winemaker with 20+ years in the industry (pretty easy, since he's often passed out on my couch). Got enough access to equipment, labs, chemicals, and all that stuff to get serious about it.

Will be a fairly meager crop this year, will get several cases by next year, all the vines should be kicking full speed in a couple of years.

So here's to a warm late summer/early fall.
I hope some BBQ Sauce/Wine bartering can be done.
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Re: The Wine List

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mvscal wrote:
Dinsdale wrote:"Did it taste good? Did it add to your enjoyment of your meal? Then I guess it was good wine then, eh?"

If you have a line on a red that you really dig for $12 or less, ride that horse until it dies.
That's kinda what I'm shooting for here. I think people are kind of confused between good and great.

Personally, I'm not all that interested in great wine. I don't know much about it, so I doubt my palate is sophisticated enough to fully appreciate it anyway and the price point for that education is a wee bit out of reach.
Agree. Though, I believe I did have some great wine in Napa when I visited. I had some Rubicon Reserve. I bought a sample for $20 which was a tad more than a splash in volume. I had a lot of wine that day in our tastings and most of the wine I thought was very good, but most places wanted upwards of $30-$50/bottle which, while the wine was good, was not worth that kind of money. The Rubicon Reserve was like $150. It truly was great wine, but I'm not paying that kind of money for a bottle.

I prefer cheaper reds that taste good. Hell, I even like Yellow Tail Shiraz as a table wine. That can be bought for about $8/bottle. Call it my Miller Lite of wines.

Another good cheap red.

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Re: The Wine List

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Fuck -- I've now been roped into working on a bottling line tomorrow.

Pretty sure it will be all pinot gris.

Problem is, bottling kinda resembles work and stuff.

Although the beauty of it is that anytime a small bottling line is involved, there's some fuckups -- fill level too high, fill level too low, and when setting up (and an occasional QC plucking from the line), there's a guage that gets poked through the cork to measure pressure/vacuum, and the bottles that get poked don't go in the case. And the line we'll be using has a broken labeller, since the label is the most likely source of a fucked up bottle. But the cool part is, all those unsellable bottles tend to go home with the people working the line (since the facility needs extra bottles of wine kicking around like they need a hole in the head).

I should be semi-comatose by late afternoon, I'm guessing. Tough job, but somebody's got to do it.
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Re: The Wine List

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UPDATE:

There's pinot gris oozing from my pores still.

Pretty good stuff, as far as whites go. Very complex, due to blending (and damn, bulk pinot gris is cheap these days). Shit's pretty smashed up from filtering/bottling, but give it a month, and things will come back together, and I'll probably end up on plenty of pinot gris benders (interspersed with swill beer, I'm sure).

Lots of whites hitting the bottle right now, and the winemakers seem fairly happy with most of them, so I guess 2009 was a good year for NW Oregon whites. Reds usually don't get bottled until summer, usually (unless the winery is low on stock, which ain't likely for most of them, so it gets plenty of oak while it waits).
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Re: The Wine List

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Dinsdale wrote:UPDATE:

There's pinot gris oozing from my pores still.

Marge says: You're soaking in it.
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Re: The Wine List

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Drinking some "old vine" zin tonight.
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Re: The Wine List

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Zin is good, if it's "chewey." Zin is supposed to be (IMO) a BIG wine -- big fruit, big acid (which balances the big alcohol that comes with the territory).

Easier to get that bigtime ripe fruit of an old vine -- the deeper the roots, the easier it is to ripen fruit.

Screw the "delicate" shit -- BIG, like comes from Napa, or Eastern Washington.

And "white zin" is an abomination. Red wine is supposed to be... red. Red grapes belong in a stemmer, not a press.

The Dins Zin is coming along quite nicely-btw. If the weather here would ever warm up (El Nino is kicking our ass, as it often does in springtime), things would be even better.

Hopefully, I'm a zin-sucking-fool by this time next year (depending how the oaking goes). It would be a nice break from the damn pinot gris I've been drinking like water -- I did some bottling work last week at my semi-unofficial winery job... which paid not in $$$, but in wine.
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Re: The Wine List

Post by Mikey »

"White zin" is a fancier name for rosé, IMO.

The one I was drinking was from Lodi, and was pretty "big".

Zin is one of the first varietals produced in California, going back to the 1850s or so from what I've heard. There are some very old vines out there.
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Re: The Wine List

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Mikey wrote:"White zin" is a fancier name for rosé, IMO.

White zin has an interesting story behind it (which I'm sure has been embellished into a much greater story than it is).

Basically, white zin is what they do with the massive amounts of zin grown in the Central Valley (great place for high yields, shitty place for developing all the different grape flavors -- not enough moist cooling at night, but plenty of heat to ripen overcropped fruit). All white zin is, is zin that's processed through a press, rather than fermented from whole berries.

Certainly, rose' can be made this way, or it can just be a blend of inferior wines with sugar added. Often a blend of a red and a white, but certainly doesn't have to be -- "rose' " is a generic term, for sure.

But white zin is kind of a horse of a different color. The difference between a red and a white, besides the rather obvious one of the color of the grape skin (although some "white" grapes have pigmented skin -- pinot gris being one example)... but the wines themselves are made differently.

White wine is made from the juice of white grapes.

Red wine is made by fermenting whole grapes -- the vast majority of the color in red wine comes from the skins, as that's where the vast majority of the pigment is. Depending on the grapes and the conditions they're going to be fermented in, the red grapes are run through a stemmer, which removes (most of) the stems. The stemmer, depending on type/model, can be adjusted to break the skins (or most of them), or not. The less broken skins there are, the slower the ferment -- which contributes to getting a lot of pigment in the wine.

So... white grapes go straight into the press, the juice is put into stainless tanks, and it's inoculated with yeast.

Red grapes are stemmed, then put in fermenters (on the scale I see it, they're usually 250(?) gallon plastic tanks, the size of a pallet. Then any chemical/PH adjustments are made, then inoculated. Eventually, the yeast will penetrate the unbroken berries, and they pop. When the ferment is complete, the whole ball of wax is then run through the press, which separates the wine from the pumice (the leftover skins, seeds, and yeast carcasses... and if the Average Joe knew just how many dead fruitflies were in that wine before it was filtered, wine sales would plummet). From there, it goes into oak barrels, and the aging begins.

But white zin, that's all fucked up. They put it straight in the press and make it exactly as it were a white, and get very little pigment as a result.
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indyfrisco
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Re: The Wine List

Post by indyfrisco »

Maybe it is just me, but I always thought a man ordering a White Zinfadel was akin to ordering a Cosmo. Ordering a Chardonnay was like asking for Long Dong Silver to ram it up your ass.
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Re: The Wine List

Post by Goober McTuber »

Maybe so on the White Zin, but there's nothing wrong with ordering a Chardonnay with chicken or fish. I'd probably still order a red, but I have had the occasional glass of Chardonnay.
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Re: The Wine List

Post by indyfrisco »

I'm just not much of a white wine drinker. I will occasionally have Pinot Griggio if at a party and there are no reds, liquor or beer.
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Re: The Wine List

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IndyFrisco wrote:I will occasionally have Pinot Griggio
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Re: The Wine List

Post by indyfrisco »

Honestly, is there any "good" white zins at all? Not "great" mind you, but good? Seriously, I think all I've ever had in the white zin category is Berenger, Franzia, Gallo, etc. Mostly your garden variety larger manufacturers. Is there a "hidden gem" of a white zin out there I have not heard of or tried? My mother-in-law has white zin every year for her thanksgiving and christmas brunches. While I have asked her to go the champagne route, maybe if there is a good white zin out there I can suggest it. Cause the shit she has now ain't working....
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Re: The Wine List

Post by Mikey »

Chardonnay is OK, but a lot of them are too fruity for my taste. I'd usually rather go with a dry sauvignon blanc.
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