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Re: But we need to phase oil out…
Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2021 5:49 pm
by Left Seater
Biden and his administration continues to be a Clown Show.
Gas is bad, but gas prices are too high.
Domestic production should be curtailed, but we should import more.
We aren't worried about inflation, but high gas prices are concerning.
They mental gymnastics are amazing these liberals put themselves thru.
Re: But we need to phase oil out…
Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2021 10:21 am
by Wolfman
I guess all that electricity needed to power up those green car batteries will be available like magic.
Dream on.
Re: But we need to phase oil out…
Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2021 10:52 am
by BSmack
The next wave of auto parts manufacturing is on board solar for cars. Power production has to be decentralized in order for alternative energy to work. Think of it like your intergoogle. It is built to survive nuclear attack. Yeah I know because we've let our infrastructure go to shit, if a truck gets a telephone pole you can knock out internet to a whole state. But that's the internet you get to use. We need a power grid that's more online with the original military-industrial complex version of the internet. Because like it or not the future is now.
Re: But we need to phase oil out…
Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2021 4:37 pm
by Mikey
Wolfman wrote: ↑Fri Aug 13, 2021 10:21 am
I guess all that electricity needed to power up those green car batteries will be available like magic.
Dream on.
My EV battery gets powered by a magic shade tree.
It's covered with these things called magic solar panels. How they got there I don't know, I think some magic faeries left them.
But somehow they work. I'm a lucky guy, I guess.
Re: But we need to phase oil out…
Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2021 4:56 pm
by smackaholic
Mikey,
You are the absolute best case for EVs.
You don’t drive a hell of a lot of miles. You live in the sunniest part of the country. You are the exception,not the rule. Ironically, Wolfe is quite possibly even better situated as his driving needs are likely even lower. Of course his state is better run and electrons are much cheaper, so getting a MST may not make sense.
If we all had your situation, we’d all have EVs.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Re: But we need to phase oil out…
Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2021 5:01 pm
by Mikey
smackaholic wrote: ↑Fri Aug 13, 2021 4:56 pm
Mikey,
You are the absolute best case for EVs.
You don’t drive a hell of a lot of miles. You live in the sunniest part of the country. You are the exception,not the rule. Ironically, Wolfe is quite possibly even better situated as his driving needs are likely even lower. Of course his state is better run and electrons are much cheaper, so getting a MST may not make sense.
If we all had your situation, we’d all have EVs.
Wolfie is not a good candidate for EVs. He doesn't believe in magic.
Re: But we need to phase oil out…
Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2021 5:30 pm
by Left Seater
Wolfing isn’t wrong in saying we would need far more electricity to all go with EVs.
The bigger issue is where is all the elements and parts for all these batteries going to come from? Are we going to double worldwide mining? Will the green crowd oppose the required additional mining to produce said batteries?
As for magic shade trees they don’t work in many residential situations. I would have to cut down huge trees to have one in San Antonio. Cutting the trees would also greatly increase my energy usage as the trees shade the house reducing the energy consumption needed for a/c. Add to that the serious insurance premiums that are charged since we tend to get hail a few times a year.
Re: But we need to phase oil out…
Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2021 5:54 pm
by Mikey
I don't know your situation in San Antonio, but keep in mind you don't need to put them on your roof. My original 5 kW (shown in the picture) are on a shade structure over our patio. I do have another 2.5 kW that are on the roof. Even if you don't want to build a shade structure you can mount them anywhere that you have the space. In fact, a ground mount system is easier to maintain and you don't have to worry about making roof penetrations.
Re: But we need to phase oil out…
Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2021 6:19 pm
by Left Seater
Understand. But it would still require cutting down trees. Plus a ground install would have to be in our backyard and would require the neighbors to cut down trees or the MST to be in shade from 2pm ish to sunset.
A ground install also does little to nothing to help with the insurance cost which are substantial.
ROI even with the tree removal is over 15 years. That is a bad deal.
We are also looking into it in CO, but given that we don’t have an A/C running full bore for 8 months our electric bills are in the $40 a month range. So unless someone has a heater that runs off of solar that ROI is likely to be even worse.
I certainly think it makes sense in some places, but the numbers have to work out. As was mentioned Mikey has about the perfect circumstances.
Re: But we need to phase oil out…
Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2021 6:57 pm
by Kierland
You are a fat stupid Trait-tor and you take is complete BS because you only care about you.
Darwin is knocking.
Re: But we need to phase oil out…
Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2021 7:23 pm
by Mikey
Also, about needing "more electricity," while that's strictly true, for EVs charged from the grid (as opposed to magic shade trees) it wouldn't necessarily require more generating capacity. Or at least not as much as most people assume.
Let's assume that everybody charges their vehicles overnight. Not everybody does but most people who drive during the day will be charging at night time, when they're not using their cars and the rates are lower (for me the midnight until 6:00 am cost is $0.09/kWh from 4:00 pm until 9:00 pm in the summer it's $0.56/kWh).
The chart below is yesterday's demand curve for the entire state of California from the CAISO website. The purple line is "net demand" that excludes wind and solar, so that would be the remaining that's covered by other generation, almost 100% natural gas. As you can see, the average demand between midnight and 6:00 am is about 22,000 MW. The peak demand is about 35,000 MW. This is not the total generating capacity, since we obviously have enough to cover that demand. But lets' assume that's the total generating capacity (probably closer to 45,000 MW). There's a difference there of about 35,000 MW - 22,000 MW = 13,000 MW. So there's 13,000 MW of unused capacity at night time that could be used without adding any additional generation.
I use my Level 2 charger for a few hours one night per week, and it draws about 7 kW. It would take 13,000,000 kW / 7 kW or about 1.8 million cars to use up that extra capacity. Spread that out over 7 days per week and it's more like 13 million EVs you could add in California without needing to add more generation. Yes there are a lot of assumptions here, like everybody charges at night, but say I'm off by 50%. That's still over 6 million EVs.
Anticipating your next objection - yes, fossil fuel generation is not pollution free. But it's a lot less polluting than running an internal combustion engine. Even if I charged my car from the grid, I'd be producing about 1/6 the carbon compared to a new gasoline vehicle.
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do ... action=bt3
Re: But we need to phase oil out…
Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2021 8:55 pm
by Left Seater
Mikey as you said lots of assumptions but your take with those assume is valid.
But your driving isn’t the average I would think. SoCal is legendary for its traffic. So consider that same increase in EVs but then how many need to recharge during the day to get the user home in rush hour? Yes there is slack overnight in CA but is all of that generation slack from fossil fuels? Solar isn’t going to add any to the grid at night without massive battery investment. Wind may add some but wind generation usually falls some between midnight and 6am.
Now consider the same in Houston in the summer of Denver in the winter. That puts a ton more strain on your assumptions.
At the end of the day EVs don’t make sense for most (you being an obvious exception.). But hybrids make a ton of sense. I would purchase a hybrid Suburban today if there was one. But an EV SUV makes no sense in CO where 4x4 and heat are a requirement more often than not.
Re: But we need to phase oil out…
Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2021 8:58 pm
by Kierland
Mikey wrote: ↑Fri Aug 13, 2021 7:23 pm
Also, about needing "more electricity," while that's strictly true, for EVs charged from the grid (as opposed to magic shade trees) it wouldn't necessarily require more generating capacity. Or at least not as much as most people assume.
Let's assume that everybody charges their vehicles overnight. Not everybody does but most people who drive during the day will be charging at night time, when they're not using their cars and the rates are lower (for me the midnight until 6:00 am cost is $0.09/kWh from 4:00 pm until 9:00 pm in the summer it's $0.56/kWh).
The chart below is yesterday's demand curve for the entire state of California from the CAISO website. The purple line is "net demand" that excludes wind and solar, so that would be the remaining that's covered by other generation, almost 100% natural gas. As you can see, the average demand between midnight and 6:00 am is about 22,000 MW. The peak demand is about 35,000 MW. This is not the total generating capacity, since we obviously have enough to cover that demand. But lets' assume that's the total generating capacity (probably closer to 45,000 MW). There's a difference there of about 35,000 MW - 22,000 MW = 13,000 MW. So there's 13,000 MW of unused capacity at night time that could be used without adding any additional generation.
I use my Level 2 charger for a few hours one night per week, and it draws about 7 kW. It would take 13,000,000 kW / 7 kW or about 1.8 million cars to use up that extra capacity. Spread that out over 7 days per week and it's more like 13 million EVs you could add in California without needing to add more generation. Yes there are a lot of assumptions here, like everybody charges at night, but say I'm off by 50%. That's still over 6 million EVs.
Anticipating your next objection - yes, fossil fuel generation is not pollution free. But it's a lot less polluting than running an internal combustion engine. Even if I charged my car from the grid, I'd be producing about 1/6 the carbon compared to a new gasoline vehicle.
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do ... action=bt3
This is what you think will convince a BrokenPsyche? I am super curious as to why you are normalizing him.
Re: But we need to phase oil out…
Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2021 9:06 pm
by Mikey
I know it's hopeless...but sometimes you gotta try.
Re: But we need to phase oil out…
Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2021 9:16 pm
by Kierland
And sometimes you got to call a Naztti a Naztti. (88 word filters, he likes cancel culture of words and censoring.)
Obviously my opinion is not the prevailing one and I know it’s not comfortable doing “the right thing” but I really thing entertaining his delusions is not healthy for him or you.
I didn’t run mvsnazi and 88nazis by being nice. Misplaced empathy is the curse of the left.
Re: But we need to phase oil out…
Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2021 9:44 pm
by smackaholic
Little fella got an awful big opinion of himself.
You didn’t run 88.
Boredom did.
Can’t speak for Mvscal, but I’m sure he had other reasons.
Mikey isn’t “normalizing” anyone, whatever the fukk that is.
He’s taking part in rational debate. Something you wouldn’t know about if it wiped its call on your drapes.
Regarding LS’ point about the horrendous SoCal traffic, it is actually a selling point for an EV. They actually get their best mileage creeping along at 3 mph in a traffic jam. ICE-powered vehicles are absolutely horrible at it. Even a very efficient one like my TDI Jetta Sportwagen.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Re: But we need to phase oil out…
Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2021 9:51 pm
by Left Seater
smackaholic wrote: ↑Fri Aug 13, 2021 9:44 pm
Regarding LS’ point about the horrendous SoCal traffic, it is actually a selling point for an EV. They actually get their best mileage creeping along at 3 mph in a traffic jam. ICE-powered vehicles are absolutely horrible at it. Even a very efficient one like my TDI Jetta Sportwagen.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Maybe so in SoCal. But anywhere where at or heat is required EVs start to shit the bed. Heat especially. Forcing electrons thru resistance to generate heat takes a crap load of said electrons.
Re: But we need to phase oil out…
Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2021 9:52 pm
by Kierland
It’s not rational to be rational with fat lazy eyed nazttis such as yourself, anymore than we should normalize any other mental illness. You are sick and you need help.
And yes I ran two naztttis, it wasn’t hard. Tedious but not hard.
Fuck off traytttor. And fuck 88wordfilters.
Re: But we need to phase oil out…
Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2021 9:53 pm
by Kierland
Left Seater wrote: ↑Fri Aug 13, 2021 9:51 pm
smackaholic wrote: ↑Fri Aug 13, 2021 9:44 pm
Regarding LS’ point about the horrendous SoCal traffic, it is actually a selling point for an EV. They actually get their best mileage creeping along at 3 mph in a traffic jam. ICE-powered vehicles are absolutely horrible at it. Even a very efficient one like my TDI Jetta Sportwagen.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Maybe so in SoCal. But anywhere where at or heat is required EVs start to shit the bed. Heat especially. Forcing electrons thru resistance to generate heat takes a crap load of said electrons.
Do you want to meet at the dojo I found in Avon so I can beat your ass?
I didn’t think so you fat yellow pussy.
Re: But we need to phase oil out…
Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2021 9:54 pm
by Kierland
The word filter is out of control.
So I even ran the admins from their own site.
:o
Re: But we need to phase oil out…
Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2021 9:55 pm
by smackaholic
Left Seater wrote:smackaholic wrote: ↑Fri Aug 13, 2021 9:44 pm
Regarding LS’ point about the horrendous SoCal traffic, it is actually a selling point for an EV. They actually get their best mileage creeping along at 3 mph in a traffic jam. ICE-powered vehicles are absolutely horrible at it. Even a very efficient one like my TDI Jetta Sportwagen.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Maybe so in SoCal. But anywhere where at or heat is required EVs start to shit the bed. Heat especially. Forcing electrons thru resistance to generate heat takes a crap load of said electrons.
Forcing electrons through something them don’t want to go through is a terribly inefficient was to make heat, but there is some waste heat from batteries/motors anyway. Better vehicle insulation might be warranted.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Re: But we need to phase oil out…
Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2021 9:56 pm
by Kierland
Left Seater wrote: ↑Fri Aug 13, 2021 9:51 pm
smackaholic wrote: ↑Fri Aug 13, 2021 9:44 pm
Regarding LS’ point about the horrendous SoCal traffic, it is actually a selling point for an EV. They actually get their best mileage creeping along at 3 mph in a traffic jam. ICE-powered vehicles are absolutely horrible at it. Even a very efficient one like my TDI Jetta Sportwagen.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Maybe so in SoCal. But anywhere where at or heat is required EVs start to shit the bed. Heat especially. Forcing electrons thru resistance to generate heat takes a crap load of said electrons.
Fuck off lying natzzzzzi.
Sin,
Hawaii
Arizona
New Mexico
And on and on.
Darwin is knocking you yellow fuck.
Re: But we need to phase oil out…
Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2021 9:56 pm
by Kierland
smackaholic wrote: ↑Fri Aug 13, 2021 9:55 pm
Left Seater wrote:smackaholic wrote: ↑Fri Aug 13, 2021 9:44 pm
Regarding LS’ point about the horrendous SoCal traffic, it is actually a selling point for an EV. They actually get their best mileage creeping along at 3 mph in a traffic jam. ICE-powered vehicles are absolutely horrible at it. Even a very efficient one like my TDI Jetta Sportwagen.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Maybe so in SoCal. But anywhere where at or heat is required EVs start to shit the bed. Heat especially. Forcing electrons thru resistance to generate heat takes a crap load of said electrons.
Forcing electrons through something them don’t want to go through is a terribly inefficient was to make heat, but there is some waste heat from batteries/motors anyway. Better vehicle insulation might be warranted.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
You are not normal, stop trying to act like it.
Re: But we need to phase oil out…
Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2021 10:53 pm
by Mikey
smackaholic wrote: ↑Fri Aug 13, 2021 9:55 pm
Left Seater wrote:smackaholic wrote: ↑Fri Aug 13, 2021 9:44 pm
Regarding LS’ point about the horrendous SoCal traffic, it is actually a selling point for an EV. They actually get their best mileage creeping along at 3 mph in a traffic jam. ICE-powered vehicles are absolutely horrible at it. Even a very efficient one like my TDI Jetta Sportwagen.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Maybe so in SoCal. But anywhere where at or heat is required EVs start to shit the bed. Heat especially. Forcing electrons thru resistance to generate heat takes a crap load of said electrons.
Forcing electrons through something them don’t want to go through is a terribly inefficient was to make heat, but there is some waste heat from batteries/motors anyway. Better vehicle insulation might be warranted.
A lot the EVs are starting to use heat pumps instead of resistance heat. OK some but most will probably make them available pretty soon. They can be 3 to 4 times the efficiency of the conventional heaters. Most EVs also have heated seats, which works well here where there may be three or four weeks a year where you need some heat in the morning, and use much less electrons than heating all of the air.
Re: But we need to phase oil out…
Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2021 11:30 pm
by Left Seater
Agree on the seat heaters. But again your situation is about the perfect situation.
From SoCal the equation only gets worse.
On a different note I heard a funny story and am trying to confirm. If it is true I will look to do the same for my suburban.
Apparently some parking spots are reserved for battery charging. Think city center type garages. So a friend of a friend has an F-250 diesel truck. He had a small battery and EV charging port installed on the back half of the truck. He now parks in these battery charging spots and does pull a few electrons and gets charged a tiny amount. For this he is allowed to park for free.
If this is actually a thing, count me in.
Re: But we need to phase oil out…
Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2021 11:50 pm
by Kierland
Lots of places have sun you candy hoarding nnnaatttzzziii.
Re: But we need to phase oil out…
Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2021 12:03 am
by Wolfman
I still say there is no real need to ditch the current choice of transportation. Unless someone can prove me wrong, oil is generated by some sort of geothermal process of hydrocarbons deep in the earth. We'll be toast by something like Yellowstone erupting before we run out of oil.
Re: But we need to phase oil out…
Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2021 12:06 am
by Kierland
Run out.
Yeah that’s the problem.
What an idiot.
Re: But we need to phase oil out…
Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2021 12:15 am
by Mikey
Give Wolfie a break. He’s like 103 or something and hasn’t actually processed any new information since around 1973.
Re: But we need to phase oil out…
Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2021 12:16 am
by Kierland
Give him a break.
Your problem in a nutshell.
You are too damn nice.
Re: But we need to phase oil out…
Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2021 12:26 am
by Mikey
Some people get nasty and disagreeable in their old age. I think maybe I’m starting to move in the opposite direction for some reason. I don’t know maybe I need to drink more.