T1B

Diego in Seattle wrote: ↑Wed Feb 10, 2021 6:13 pm

Left Seater wrote: ↑Wed Feb 10, 2021 6:05 pm Not this one because the impeached is already out of office.

So you're saying that a POTUS can violate whatever laws they don't like if it's in the last month of their term?

Left Seater wrote: ↑Wed Feb 10, 2021 6:05 pm Not this one because the impeached is already out of office.

But that has nothing to do with the voting on the Constitutionality of something. Again should the Senate be voting on the Constitutionality of abortion.

...

Post-presidential impeachment is also legitimate because the Senate rules, initially drafted by Thomas Jefferson when he was vice-president, allow it. They provide that once the Senate has received the articles of impeachment, the Senate must “immediately” proceed with a trial.

Once the Senate receives the articles of impeachment against Trump, the Senate has no choice but to begin an impeachment trial. Every senator knows that the Senate has a long tradition of following its rules, and this is why Senator Mitch McConnell (R-Kentucky) will not reconvene the Senate until the day before Joe Biden’s inauguration as the 46th president of the United States: He knows the Senate would have to begin a trial, and therefore he may be taking advantage of the Senate’s being in recess now so that Chuck Schumer, a Democrat who will become majority leader on Jan. 20, will take the heat for starting Trump’s second impeachment trial after Trump has left office. No one is more skilled at the use of congressional procedures than McConnell, but even he surely knows the Senate must begin an impeachment trial, even after the president leaves office.

The third reason that post-presidential impeachment is legitimate is perhaps the most compelling: On three separate occasions after an official left office, Congress proceeded with an impeachment and a trial of the impeached official. These three precedents provide a strong foundation for the Senate’s conducting a second impeachment trial of Trump. Some commentators overlook or dismiss these precedents because they did not involve presidents, but that makes no sense, since there is only one impeachment clause, which subjects presidents and every other impeachable official to the same process: They “shall be removed from office on impeachment for and conviction of treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors.”

...

Left Seater wrote: ↑Wed Feb 10, 2021 7:43 pm

Diego in Seattle wrote: ↑Wed Feb 10, 2021 6:13 pm

Left Seater wrote: ↑Wed Feb 10, 2021 6:05 pm Not this one because the impeached is already out of office.

So you're saying that a POTUS can violate whatever laws they don't like if it's in the last month of their term?

You do know there is a difference between impeachment and charging someone with criminal or civil crimes right?

[+] yeah

Innocent Bystander wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 3:32 am Meanwhile, in the People's Republic of Mexifornia ...

Left Seater wrote: ↑Wed Feb 10, 2021 6:05 pm Not this one because the impeached is already out of office.

But that has nothing to do with the voting on the Constitutionality of something. Again should the Senate be voting on the Constitutionality of abortion.

Diego in Seattle wrote: ↑Wed Feb 10, 2021 6:13 pm

Left Seater wrote: ↑Wed Feb 10, 2021 6:05 pm Not this one because the impeached is already out of office.

So you're saying that a POTUS can violate whatever laws they don't like if it's in the last month of their term?

smackaholic wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 12:15 pm He said nothing of the sort.

A lame duck POTUS, or anyone else, for that matter is subject to the nation's laws. If Trump violated any, pursue him in court as a private citizen.

But, that won't happen, because actual courts need to follow rules and stuff, unlike the joke kangaroo court congress has become.

smackaholic wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 12:15 pm

Diego in Seattle wrote: ↑Wed Feb 10, 2021 6:13 pm

Left Seater wrote: ↑Wed Feb 10, 2021 6:05 pm Not this one because the impeached is already out of office.

So you're saying that a POTUS can violate whatever laws they don't like if it's in the last month of their term?

He said nothing of the sort.

A lame duck POTUS, or anyone else, for that matter is subject to the nation's laws. If Trump violated any, pursue him in court as a private citizen.

But, that won't happen, because actual courts need to follow rules and stuff, unlike the joke kangaroo court congress has become.

Diego in Seattle wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 3:15 am

Left Seater wrote: ↑Wed Feb 10, 2021 7:43 pm

Diego in Seattle wrote: ↑Wed Feb 10, 2021 6:13 pm
So you're saying that a POTUS can violate whatever laws they don't like if it's in the last month of their term?

You do know there is a difference between impeachment and charging someone with criminal or civil crimes right?

High crimes & misdemeanors. What's your point?

Left Seater wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 2:46 pm

Diego in Seattle wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 3:15 am

Left Seater wrote: ↑Wed Feb 10, 2021 7:43 pm

You do know there is a difference between impeachment and charging someone with criminal or civil crimes right?

High crimes & misdemeanors. What's your point?

That you liberals are only doing this for show. Impeachment is to remove someone from office. Trump isn't in office. If you think he broke laws then charge him with a crime.

But this is just liberal political theater.

Screw_Michigan wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 1:15 pm Preventing Dump from ever taking federal office again is essential to the national security of the United States.

Why do you hate free and fair elections? Don't bother, we all know why, you fascist pile of human excrement.

smackaholic wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 12:15 pm

Diego in Seattle wrote: ↑Wed Feb 10, 2021 6:13 pm

Left Seater wrote: ↑Wed Feb 10, 2021 6:05 pm Not this one because the impeached is already out of office.

So you're saying that a POTUS can violate whatever laws they don't like if it's in the last month of their term?

He said nothing of the sort.

A lame duck POTUS, or anyone else, for that matter is subject to the nation's laws. If Trump violated any, pursue him in court as a private citizen.

But, that won't happen, because actual courts need to follow rules and stuff, unlike the joke kangaroo court congress has become.

Diego in Seattle wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 2:53 pm
The reason for the impeachment is not to remove Trump from office (obviously). It is to disqualify him from holding office ever again.

Left Seater wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 2:53 pm

Screw_Michigan wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 1:15 pm Preventing Dump from ever taking federal office again is essential to the national security of the United States.

Why do you hate free and fair elections? Don't bother, we all know why, you fascist pile of human excrement.

Talking about free and fair elections and banning citizens from running makes you the fascist pile of human excrement.

Keep kicking your own ass.

Left Seater wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 2:55 pm

Diego in Seattle wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 2:53 pm
The reason for the impeachment is not to remove Trump from office (obviously). It is to disqualify him from holding office ever again.

The GOP would appreciate you doing that. Makes 2022 and 2024 easier.

Screw_Michigan wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 1:15 pm

smackaholic wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 12:15 pm He said nothing of the sort.

A lame duck POTUS, or anyone else, for that matter is subject to the nation's laws. If Trump violated any, pursue him in court as a private citizen.

But, that won't happen, because actual courts need to follow rules and stuff, unlike the joke kangaroo court congress has become.

Wrong. Preventing Dump from ever taking federal office again is essential to the national security of the United States. Plus, putting these treasonous and cowardly GOPers on trial for aiding, enabling and EXCUSING Dump's anti-democratic behavior is very important. And voters are watching undoubtedly.

Why do you hate free and fair elections? Don't bother, we all know why, you fascist pile of human excrement.

Diego in Seattle wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 3:00 pm

Left Seater wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 2:55 pm

Diego in Seattle wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 2:53 pm
The reason for the impeachment is not to remove Trump from office (obviously). It is to disqualify him from holding office ever again.

The GOP would appreciate you doing that. Makes 2022 and 2024 easier.

In 2022 Democrats will simply replay yesterday's trial & then report how the GOP chose to protect the guy who set up an insurrection. It will make 1976 pale in comparison to how they got trounced.

Left Seater wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 2:46 pm

Diego in Seattle wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 3:15 am

Left Seater wrote: ↑Wed Feb 10, 2021 7:43 pm

You do know there is a difference between impeachment and charging someone with criminal or civil crimes right?

High crimes & misdemeanors. What's your point?

That you liberals are only doing this for show. Impeachment is to remove someone from office. Trump isn't in office. If you think he broke laws then charge him with a crime.

But this is just liberal political theater.

"Things you can't do by executive order unless you're a dictator. We're a democracy. We need consensus."

But this is no way to make law. A polarized, narrowly divided Congress may offer Mr. Biden little choice but to employ executive actions or see his entire agenda held hostage. These directives, however, are a flawed substitute for legislation.

Mikey wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 3:10 pm

Left Seater wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 2:46 pm

Diego in Seattle wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 3:15 am
High crimes & misdemeanors. What's your point?

That you liberals are only doing this for show. Impeachment is to remove someone from office. Trump isn't in office. If you think he broke laws then charge him with a crime.

But this is just liberal political theater.

Not only do you hate the Constitution.

Left Seater wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 3:12 pm President Executive Action can't even get a Democratic controlled Congress to pass his crap. He has resorted to Executive Action.

Executive Orders in a President's first week

Trump 5
Obama 5
Bush 0
Clinton 0

Biden 24

This is after making some sort of claim about dictators and executive actions:

smackaholic wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 3:09 pm

Diego in Seattle wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 3:00 pm

Left Seater wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 2:55 pm

The GOP would appreciate you doing that. Makes 2022 and 2024 easier.

In 2022 Democrats will simply replay yesterday's trial & then report how the GOP chose to protect the guy who set up an insurrection. It will make 1976 pale in comparison to how they got trounced.

5-6 dollar gas along with being fed up with hard left policies will buttfukk the dems in the mouf.

Left Seater wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 3:15 pm

Mikey wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 3:10 pm

Left Seater wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 2:46 pm

That you liberals are only doing this for show. Impeachment is to remove someone from office. Trump isn't in office. If you think he broke laws then charge him with a crime.

But this is just liberal political theater.

Not only do you hate the Constitution.

Typical liberal. When you don't know shit, just throw out the word Constitution and says others hate it.

Facts are, an impeachment conviction by itself doesn't prevent anyone from holding office again.

Left Seater wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 3:12 pm President Executive Action can't even get a Democratic controlled Congress to pass his crap. He has resorted to Executive Action.

Executive Orders in a President's first week

Trump 5
Obama 5
Bush 0
Clinton 0

Biden 24

This is after making some sort of claim about dictators and executive actions:

"Things you can't do by executive order unless you're a dictator. We're a democracy. We need consensus."

Hell, even the NYTimes is telling their hero to slow his roll:

But this is no way to make law. A polarized, narrowly divided Congress may offer Mr. Biden little choice but to employ executive actions or see his entire agenda held hostage. These directives, however, are a flawed substitute for legislation.

But Biden said he would not test the legal bounds of executive action and use it in lieu of legislation, stating “I am not going to violate the constitution,” and arguing unfettered use of executive orders can set a dangerous precedent for future administrations.

Biden told a group of seven leaders of civil rights organizations that some progressive Democrats are urging executive actions that are "way beyond the bounds" of a president's legal authority. The comments reflect what Biden has said publicly about the limited scope of executive action and the need for presidents to work with Congress to enact long-lasting policy.

In the meeting, Biden said he planned to roll back everything President Donald Trump has done through executive action, rather than with the approval of Congress. He said he would use his powers "to undo every single damn thing this guy has done by executive authority."

"I am not going to violate the Constitution. Executive authority that my progressive friends talk about is way beyond the bounds," he said.

But, he said, he would not seek to use executive action to mandate policy changes that he has long said are up to Congress to make.

Diego in Seattle wrote:

Left Seater wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 3:12 pm President Executive Action can't even get a Democratic controlled Congress to pass his crap. He has resorted to Executive Action.

Executive Orders in a President's first week

Trump 5
Obama 5
Bush 0
Clinton 0

Biden 24

This is after making some sort of claim about dictators and executive actions:

First year total EO's signed by Obama: 39
First year total EO's signed by Trump: 55

Your point?

Mikey wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 5:44 pm Reversing ridiculous EOs imposed by his deranged predecessor is not a bad thing.

Innocent Bystander wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 6:25 pm - Transsexual MtF are not women. Transsexual FtM are not men.

Innocent Bystander wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 6:25 pm - Illegals should not be encouraged to come here.

Innocent Bystander wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 6:25 pm - Stopping illegals also stops child exploitation and sexual exploitation.

Innocent Bystander wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 6:25 pm - What policies did Trump put into place to specifically racially discriminate against Asians?

Mikey wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 4:54 pm
You might want to scroll up this page and read the article I posted.

Mikey wrote: ↑Wed Feb 10, 2021 11:53 pm
https://www.justsecurity.org/74226/hist ... es-office/

...

which subjects presidents and every other impeachable official to the same process: They “shall be removed from office on impeachment for and conviction of”

...

Left Seater wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 7:21 pm

Mikey wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 4:54 pm
You might want to scroll up this page and read the article I posted.

I read it. Maybe you should read it again. Hell even from your quote of if:

Mikey wrote: ↑Wed Feb 10, 2021 11:53 pm
https://www.justsecurity.org/74226/hist ... es-office/

...

which subjects presidents and every other impeachable official to the same process: They “shall be removed from office on impeachment for and conviction of”

...

smackaholic wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 6:20 pm

Diego in Seattle wrote:

Left Seater wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 3:12 pm President Executive Action can't even get a Democratic controlled Congress to pass his crap. He has resorted to Executive Action.

Executive Orders in a President's first week

Trump 5
Obama 5
Bush 0
Clinton 0

Biden 24

This is after making some sort of claim about dictators and executive actions:

First year total EO's signed by Obama: 39
First year total EO's signed by Trump: 55

Your point?

His point is that President EA’s first day came close to matching Trump’s entire year.

Regarding the Obama and Trump numbers on EAs, I’d like to know more about the individual EAs.

How many of Trump’s were to simply undo Barry’s

I have no problem at all with such an EA.

How many of Barry’s were to initiate a position.

Those, I do have a problem with.

On the topic of EAs itself, we need to pass a law, or better yet, an Ammendment, putting a limit on them as an available tool for a President something done instantly which can’t wait for congress.

Obama said that’s the way it works, until he realized that it was in his interest to do otherwise.

Biden has doubled down in this dictator tactic.


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smackaholic wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 6:20 pm

Diego in Seattle wrote:

Left Seater wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 3:12 pm President Executive Action can't even get a Democratic controlled Congress to pass his crap. He has resorted to Executive Action.

Executive Orders in a President's first week

Trump 5
Obama 5
Bush 0
Clinton 0

Biden 24

This is after making some sort of claim about dictators and executive actions:

First year total EO's signed by Obama: 39
First year total EO's signed by Trump: 55

Your point?

His point is that President EA’s first day came close to matching Trump’s entire year.

Regarding the Obama and Trump numbers on EAs, I’d like to know more about the individual EAs.

How many of Trump’s were to simply undo Barry’s

I have no problem at all with such an EA.

How many of Barry’s were to initiate a position.

Those, I do have a problem with.

On the topic of EAs itself, we need to pass a law, or better yet, an Ammendment, putting a limit on them as an available tool for a President something done instantly which can’t wait for congress.

Obama said that’s the way it works, until he realized that it was in his interest to do otherwise.

Biden has doubled down in this dictator tactic.


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Bill in Houston wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 7:51 pm

smackaholic wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 6:20 pm

Diego in Seattle wrote: First year total EO's signed by Obama: 39
First year total EO's signed by Trump: 55

Your point?

His point is that President EA’s first day came close to matching Trump’s entire year.

Regarding the Obama and Trump numbers on EAs, I’d like to know more about the individual EAs.

How many of Trump’s were to simply undo Barry’s

I have no problem at all with such an EA.

How many of Barry’s were to initiate a position.

Those, I do have a problem with.

On the topic of EAs itself, we need to pass a law, or better yet, an Ammendment, putting a limit on them as an available tool for a President something done instantly which can’t wait for congress.

Obama said that’s the way it works, until he realized that it was in his interest to do otherwise.

Biden has doubled down in this dictator tactic.


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Clearly you aren't very smart, but 24 = 55? Really?

Whether an EO is used to reverse a previous one or initiate a new position is irrelevant. One is OK and the other objectionable is clearly partisan stance.

You should ask your representatives to put forth an amendment, good luck.
"Can't wait for congress" is such a clear definition. In fact, I'd guess nearly all EOs fit that definition, by the president declaring them.

It's always better to get congress to act first. In this obstructionist-before-country era it is most often the only route to policy creation.

smackaholic wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 10:03 pm
I haven't studied The Bad Orange Man's EOs, but if he did produce any that were anything other than previous EO negation, and it could have waited for congress, then it was wrong.