T1B

Many will knee jerk react to the first and damn near everyone will agree with the second one.

Remember this isn't a rule change year so the only changes allowed are "player safety rules." Not sure how either of these are considered player safety, but the committee didn't ask me.


1) Offenses would be prohibited from snapping the ball until 29 seconds remain on the 40 second play clock. This is supposed to give the defense a chance to sub players without fear of the offense snapping the ball prior to the completion of the substitution. Currently the defense is only protected in their substitution if the offense first substitutes. This restriction on the snap would not be in effect in the last two minutes of each half.


2) In cases where players who were ejected for targeting are reinstated after a replay review also would not be penalized 15 yards. In other words replay would erase the ejection and the foul.




Did you knee jerk to the first proposed change yet?

The rules committee only found 131 instances where a team snapped the ball last season in less than 10 seconds. That is 131 out of millions of plays across all NCAA levels. Remember the 40 second clock starts when the ball becomes dead on the previous play. You still have to unpile, spot the ball, line up, and call a play before snapping the ball. So clearly this isn't going to have any bearing on the game. That said, if it isn't happening now, why the need for the rule?

Because Gus Malzahn ran the hurry-up no-huddle up Nick Saban's ass.

Carson wrote:Because Gus Malzahn ran the hurry-up no-huddle up Nick Saban's ass.

Nick the Dick started railing against the hurry up when he thought he might play Oregon in the MNC. Turns out AU did him in with it.


Of those 131, I'm guessing 100 of them were Oregon, the rest Auburn.

Lefty, correct me if I'm wrong, but this rule seems meaningless (maybe I'm more familiar being Duckfan) -- I thought after the offense substitutes, the official doesn't get off the ball until the defensive sub is in position? If that's the case, I don't see where the time on the play clock matters.

Dinsdale wrote: Lefty, correct me if I'm wrong, but this rule seems meaningless (maybe I'm more familiar being Duckfan) -- I thought after the offense substitutes, the official doesn't get off the ball until the defensive sub is in position? If that's the case, I don't see where the time on the play clock matters.

Dins,

You are correct. If the offense subs the Line Of Scrimmage official on the sideline of the offense will put both of his arms straight out parallel with the ground at shoulder height. The umpire will then cover the ball preventing the offense from snapping the ball. If the defense moves to match the offensive substitution then the umpire will remain over the ball until the substitution is complete. If during this time the play clock expires, the offense will still get a delay of game penalty. If on the other hand the defense doesn't move to substitute within 2 seconds or so the umpire will release the ball and allow the offense to snap at their desire.

The issue the rules committee apparently has it that this give the offense a huge advantage. What if the defense just wants to sub someone to give them a few plays off? As it is currently, if they try to sub, the offense will often go to a basic formation and snap the ball trying to catch the defense in the substitution. If a snap is imminent and there are 12 or more defensive players on the field then by rule the officials are to sound their whistle and the defense is guilty of illegal substitution and the offense is awarded 5 yards. In most of these situations the offense has no plan to snap the ball, they just want the officials to think they will and therefore create the foul.

Again, since this isn't happening now, I don't see the need to add additional rules. Also, as an FYI, here is the rules committee:

FBS Associate Commissioner Alfred B. White
Conference USA Conference USA SEP 2014

FBS Head Coach - MFB Todd Berry
University of Louisiana at Monroe Sun Belt Conference SEP 2017


FBS Head Football Coash Troy Calhoun *CHAIR*
U.S. Air Force Academy Mountain West Conference SEP 2015


FCS AD, Athletic Director Ken Beazer
Southern Utah University Big Sky Conference SEP 2014


FCS Commissioner Thomas E. Yeager
Colonial Athletic Association Colonial Athletic Association SEP 2016


FCS Head Football Coach Robert NIelson
Western Illinois University The Summit League SEP 2017


II AD David R. Sharp
Ouachita Baptist University Great American Conference SEP 2014*


II Head Football Coach Keith Allen
Southwest Baptist University Mid-America Intercollegiate Athletics Association SEP 2014


II Head Football Coach Peter Rossomando
University of New Haven Northeast-10 Conference SEP 2015


III AD, & Recreation Gregory A. Wallace
Grinnell College Midwest Conference SEP 2014


III Associate Director of Athletics Michael Mattia
Johns Hopkins University Centennial Conference SEP 2016


III Head Football Coach Brian Surace
Fairleigh Dickinson University, Florham Middle Atlantic Conferences SEP 2016

That's what I thought.

So it's a rule to address a situation that never happens.

As a fan of the team that one could argue that the rule would affect most, I still don't see where it matters one iota.

Right now, I have the local sports show on (very good radio/TV simulcast... not generally the rule), and they are discussing it, but they seem to be omitting the part where the offense still has to substitute for the rule to be in effect, which would be a radical change.

Thank god for #2. That shit pissed me off. It was a logical trainwreck of a rule.

Left Seater wrote:Did you knee jerk to the first proposed change yet?

The rules committee only found 131 instances where a team snapped the ball last season in less than 10 seconds. That is 131 out of millions of plays across all NCAA levels. Remember the 40 second clock starts when the ball becomes dead on the previous play. You still have to unpile, spot the ball, line up, and call a play before snapping the ball. So clearly this isn't going to have any bearing on the game. That said, if it isn't happening now, why the need for the rule?

Not a knee jerk, but a question on this. I understand that only 131 plays were snapped in less than 10 seconds, but how many times were the offenses lined up and ready to go in less than 10 seconds? I think that is the issue that was pissing Saban coaches off.

I agree that the rule isn't needed. I think Stanford put together a pretty nice blue print on how to slow down a hurry up spread.

That is a great question Killian, but I haven't seen any data on that. Just the threat of the snap prevents the defense from making any substitutions.

I have seen data that shows, the ball is not usually spotted by the umpire until 7.1 seconds have run off of the play clock. This is pretty fast considering that on more than 40% of plays a new ball is used.

I didn't realize until reading this thread that the play clock started prior to the "ready for play" signal from the referee. I officiated high school football for a good many years and I'm pretty sure that colleges followed basically the same rules. When did the rule change? I assume it's whenever they went to a 40 second play clock, but I guess that I haven't been paying much attention to the timing rules. Our crew tried to have the ball ready for play within 8 seconds so, considering that the play clock starts when the whistle ends a play, delaying 11 seconds before the ball can be snapped would very rarely come into play, as your stats show.

Rule change #2 is a common sense change, imo. If there's no foul, there should be no penalty.

Sudden Sam wrote:

Is the concern truthfully about player safety? I don't know...maybe. There is some merit to that argument.

Even if Bama went to a hurry-up (which I hope they don't ever do), I still would argue that the defense should be allowed to get set and have time to make substitutions. Although I like a speeded up game to a point (no huddle), some of these offenses look like grade school stuff. It's run because those teams can't line up and compete otherwise.

If there is some player safety angle so be it...what we don't want is the Schmick method of faking injuries. That has no place in the game.


Also, just because a team doesn't huddle doesn't mean they are a hurry up offense. Plenty of teams just call plays at the LOS, but aren't in any hurry.

schmick wrote:Just have a defensive player lay on the field with a cramp so the defense can get the substitutions in, hurry up is chicken shit anyway.

^^^^^^^
Is a long way from

schmick wrote:I didnt cry about anything, if a defensive player is gassed then all he needs to do is stay down until the refs stop play and then he can be spelled for a play or two. That is no more outside the rules of the hurry up no huddle offense is.

Being tired and suffering an injury are two totally different things.

schmick wrote:I didnt cry about anything, if a defensive player is gassed then all he needs to do is stay down until the refs stop play and then he can be spelled for a play or two. That is no more outside the rules of the hurry up no huddle offense is.

And USC is 1-1 in their last 2 meetings vs oregon 5-5 over the last 10

Delaying the game because you're a fat, lazy piece of shit means you're faking injury and delaying the game, and it is against the rules. Get in shape to play the game or stay on the sidelines and watch.

Sudden Sam wrote:Funny you say that, Mace.

I was just saying to a coworker that all these kids are supposed to be in the greatest shape of any generation of football players, right? So why do I see kids signaling to get off the field when they catch a pass for 30 yards? You see kids "gassed" after 3 or 4 plays all the time.

WTF?!

We're really old, Sam, but I can't imagine many of these guys trying to play both ways.

Sudden Sam wrote:

Carson wrote:Because Gus Malzahn ran the hurry-up no-huddle up Nick Saban's ass.

http://scores.espn.go.com/ncf/boxscore?gameId=333340002

Bama ran a pro style offense up Auburn's ass better.

If not for 3 missed FGs and a dropped pass in the end zone...

It's so funny to me that y'all seem to think you dominated the game. You didn't.

You did win, however. No problem congratulating Auburn on the win. But you won it on a freak play. You stayed in it because Alabama kept shooting themselves in the foot.

Okay, Oklahoma dominated Nick running a mostly no huddle offense. Refute that example, mouthpiece. (feels good to talk a little shit again)

I don't like this rule change for different reason than most are stating. While I do believe that the offense should dictate the pace of play in any game I'm upset most at this rule for the automatic eleven second clock run off after every play.

SunCoast,

You do understand that there are plenty of times the 40 second play clock is running but the game clock is not, right?

Left Seater wrote:SunCoast,

You do understand that there are plenty of times the 40 second play clock is running but the game clock is not, right?

Yes.

SunCoastSooner wrote: I'm upset most at this rule for the automatic eleven second clock run off after every play.

Ok, I don't understand the point you are making. Please explain.

Football is too slow as it is. Rule ought to be changed to a 29 second clock.

Mace wrote: Delaying the game because you're a fat, lazy piece of shit means you're faking injury and delaying the game, and it is against the rules.

Basicly uninforceable. No ref will risk potentially further injuring a player by assuming he's faking it...and what coach would use a nefarious strategy that could help his team win if he couldn't ever get caught?

I'd love to see the powers that be consider something like making it an automatic penalty for ANY defensive injury that interrupts the tempo of the game.

Penalty could be 10 yards, but I like the idea of the defense losing that player with no replacement for the next play, i.e. plays only with 10.

Can you imagine the howling and gnashing of teeth from the coaches of those that seem to employ the defensive flop on a regular basis?

Yeah, yeah, I know. Never gonna happen. But one can dream... :wink:

If that is the direction then why limit it to defensive penalties?

If the offense commits a chop or a crackback block then the offense plays a man down. If the defensive player is out for multiple plays then the opponent plays short handed for a series. Kinda like a game misconduct.

Good to see that common sense rules...

I'm just popping in to RACK Dins for the Bachelor Party re-set for "Nick the Dick"
.