Madison protests

[Screw_Michigan]

War on the middle class. Nothing new here.

Support collective bargaining rights for Wisconsin state employees. Solidarity now...solidarity forever.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

Don't bus drivers make like 200K there?

[Screw_Michigan]

Bus drivers in DC make more than I do. You could throw another $25k on top of that and I still wouldn't want to drive a bus here.

[Diego in Seattle]

Gov. Walker & his fellow republicans in the legislature are calling for workers to pay half their pension benefits and a 12.6% reduction in health care benefits.

I'm still waiting for these goons to make such a proposal for their own compensation.

[Dinsdale]

Support collective bargaining rights for Wisconsin state employees. Solidarity now...solidarity forever.

Good idea, since it's worked out so well for Oregon, california, et.al.


And since state employees are routinely subjected to sweatshop like conditions and wages.


Ever notice 88's sig of the Franklin quote about "people voting themselves money"?

You wanna see "war on the middle class"? Let your public employees collectively bargain.

[Mac22]

a few bus drivers here were making 160k or more because of the way they had it set up with who got dibs on the OT, then got pissed when it was spread out more evenly.

as for teachers, they (we) are willing to give up salary concessions, but Walker wants to eliminate collective bargaining. it's effective for all state workers, but he conveniently exempted firefighters and police from this. otherwise, we wouldn't have even made it to this stage. now a proposal is to exempt the UW-Madison campus as well and basically create a split in the UW-System (14 four year schools total, plus a handful of 2 years).

[Mikey]

So the Wisconsinites have been inspired by Tahrir Square.

RACK them. I hope they get their democracy.

[smackaholic]

War on the middle class. Nothing new here.

Support collective bargaining rights for Wisconsin state employees. Solidarity now...solidarity forever.

No one is taking their collective bargaining rights away, you jizz mopping dolt. The problem is some confuse collective bargaining with collective demanding, which is what public employee unions have pretty much had for 50 years and is part of what has put us in the position we are in now.

What fukking part of 'we can't afford it anymoer' do these fukks have trouble with?

the left coast states and the U&R states are coming to this realization finally. trouble is it's so fukking bad now that they will have to give up more than they would have if they were a little more reasonable years ago.

[Tom In VA]

This is one to watch though.

[Invictus]

"25 miles surrounded by reality."

As a former WI State Govt. employee, I've been watching these goings on and FB messages of former co-workers and friends. I never joined a union, actually I couldn't because of my position.

This was bound to happen someday. I left right before Gov. Doyle began combining departments and the mandatory furloughs began. Unfortunately, when you work at the whim of the government, you are subject to its, and the taxpayers, whim. Considering how conservative, both fiscally and politically, the rest of the state is, there was always a threat this would happen.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

The F-35 needs an alternate engine and you unpatriotic, selfish whiners are complaining about your drug benefit plans and pensions.

You should be ashamed. Remember 9/11.

[Screw_Michigan]

The F-35 needs an alternate engine and you unpatriotic, selfish whiners are complaining about your drug benefit plans and pensions.

You should be ashamed. Remember 9/11.

No shit. Rack Marty.

[smackaholic]

There should not be any public employee unions, period. Why should they exist or be recognized at all?

Government is established by and fully funded by the People. Thus, the People should be permitted to set whatever wages and benefits and terms of employment they want to pay their employees. And if the employees of the People do not like the terms, they can quit their jobs and join a union and work in the private sector.

someone on the radio, forget who it was, talked about this a few weeks ago. private sector unions are fine because the company has the option of telling them to fukk off and if the company gives them too much, they go under. gubmint is different. it can just keep on passing it on to the taxpayer until..... well ......now.

[Screw_Michigan]

Thus, the People should be permitted to set whatever wages and benefits and terms of employment they want to pay their employees.

Government cannot function efficiently when you're paying cancer-fighting scientists $15/hr because they're "lazy government bureaucrats who leech off the system" and because that's what "the People" want to pay them.

[Diego in Seattle]

Thus, the People should be permitted to set whatever wages and benefits and terms of employment they want to pay their employees.

Government cannot function efficiently when you're paying cancer-fighting scientists $15/hr because they're "lazy government bureaucrats who leech off the system" and because that's what "the People" want to pay them.

Not to mention unions keep governors from firing employees simply to give their jobs to their friends.

[R-Jack]

Are we still going to be able to get cheese?

[R-Jack]

Government cannot function efficiently when you're paying cancer-fighting scientists $15/hr because they're "lazy government bureaucrats who leech off the system" and because that's what "the People" want to pay them.

Not to sound callous, but what does fighting cancer have to do with running an efficient government?

[Truman]

...as for teachers, they (we) are willing to give up salary concessions, but Walker wants to eliminate collective bargaining for pensions and benefits.

Fixed. Collective bargaining for salaries is still on the table.

What a concept: An employer actually asking his employees to fund their healthcare benefits and pension plans with a small portion of their own salary. How so very private sector of him.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

Government is established by and fully funded by lobbyists.

FTFY


Yeah, I saw "Mr. Smith Goes To Washington" too. It was a feature film, not a documentary.

[Diego in Seattle]

...as for teachers, they (we) are willing to give up salary concessions, but Walker wants to eliminate collective bargaining for pensions and benefits.

Fixed. Collective bargaining for salaries is still on the table.

What a concept: An employer actually asking his employees to fund their healthcare benefits and pension plans with a small portion of their own salary. How so very private sector of him.

Then why didn't the state just come out & ask for this? Instead of accepting the union's offer to negotiate the governor & his republican hacks decided to unilaterally shove that down the employee's throat ALONG WITH taking away collective bargaining.

This isn't about saving money...it's about destroying the rights of employees.

[BSmack]

War on the middle class. Nothing new here.

Support collective bargaining rights for Wisconsin state employees. Solidarity now...solidarity forever.

No one is taking their collective bargaining rights away, you jizz mopping dolt.

Yes they are. Sorry you're so pathetically misinformed.

[BSmack]

...as for teachers, they (we) are willing to give up salary concessions, but Walker wants to eliminate collective bargaining for pensions and benefits.

Fixed. Collective bargaining for salaries is still on the table.

What a concept: An employer actually asking his employees to fund their healthcare benefits and pension plans with a small portion of their own salary. How so very private sector of him.

Time was that private sector employees got pensions as a term of employment. Now, it's a matching 401k. And during hard times, the precedent has been set for employers to halt matching contributions. Next up they'll stop funding 401ks for all but the most in demand positions.

One day the American worker will wake up in a sweatshop and wonder how he got there. Well I'm telling you how.

[Screw_Michigan]

Screwy is wrong because the federal government doesn't hire "cancer-fighting scientists". If so, where are these government owned and operated cancer-fighting scientists working? The closest the federal government comes to hiring "cancer-fighters" is the VA Hospitals. And I suspect the People won't be so cheap as to pay them $15.00/hour.

Well, for starters, the National Institutes for Health in Bethesda, Md., the Center for Disease Control in Atlanta, the National Naval Medical Center in Bethesda (may be Naval, but I don't think everyone who works here is in the Navy).

[Truman]

Time was that private sector employees got pensions as a term of employment. Now, it's a matching 401k. And during hard times, the precedent has been set for employers to halt matching contributions. Next up they'll stop funding 401ks for all but the most in demand positions.

One day the American worker will wake up in a sweatshop and wonder how he got there. Well I'm telling you how.

I actually gave your take a bit of thought, B.

Here’s mine...

Look, I don’t begrudge anybody getting what they can get in the open market. Is Pujols worth $300 M? You bet... IF somebody gets around to paying him. Rack Bat Albert for getting over if that happens...

I think what’s occurring in Madison and destined to repeat in other parts of the country is that the Public Sector is about to find out – the hard way – what the Private Sector learned years ago:

There ain’t no free lunch.

Look, B, I can remember driving down the street of my home town and shaking my head in amazement at the corner pickets because AT&T’s new (free) health plan dared to raise their workers’ deductible from $5 to $10 for a doctor’s office visit. I think I was paying around $160/month for family healthcare coverage at the time in my national consumer products sales job – a veritable small credit union back then, if extrapolated into dog years.

There are figures out there that suggest that the average Public wage has surpassed that of the Private Sector. I’m too lazy to look it up, and besides, somebody else would find a link that suggests I’m full of shit. Whatever. The bottom line is that Wisconsin (and other states) is at least 3 EXTRA LARGE in the hole, and they gotta pay the piper. And if they are anything like Missouri, they are constitutionally mandated to balance their budget

Asking state employees to fund a small portion of their healthcare and pension would SEEM reasonable... But apparently not. This is the Reality that we Private types have come to terms with over the past 20-or-so years.

The Employer – Wisconsin – is broke.

Wisconsin cannot close up shop – like a private business with declining revenues and an unwieldy labor rate; AND

They can’t print money like the Fed.

So what is Wisconsin to do? Legitimate question.

Wisconsinites already pay some of the highest taxes in the country. So do you go ahead and raise taxes anyway on a majority of folks within the state who do not have the type of healthcare and pension plans that the state’s employees currently enjoy? What are we, France?

Or do you ask state employees to share a part of the burden, as Governor Walker has?

After all: Who works for whom?

[Diego in Seattle]

Or do you ask state employees to share a part of the burden, as Governor Walker has?

That's part of the problem....he hasn't.

The head of the Wisconsin Educators Association said on the radio today that her union has yet to agree to meet at the bargaining table.

So obviously this isn't about lowering the deficit....it's about breaking the union.

[Tom In VA]

So obviously this isn't about lowering the deficit....it's about breaking the union.

That's it ? Just busting a union for the sake of busting a union ? How much tax payer money is he wasting trying to bust a union for a cheap thrill here ?

[Truman]

Find a new radio station, Bro. That IS the issue.

Wisconsin can no longer afford to fund state employees healthcare and pensions at their current rates.

Collective bargaining for salaries is STILL on the table. That isn't Union breaking... That's being fiscally responsible.

[smackaholic]

Or do you ask state employees to share a part of the burden, as Governor Walker has?

That's part of the problem....he hasn't.

The head of the Wisconsin Educators Association said on the radio today that her union has yet to agree to meet at the bargaining table.

So obviously this isn't about lowering the deficit....it's about breaking the union.

no, it's not.

they are not forcing the union to disband. they are simply telling them, we are fukking broke, so you are taking a paycut. the union can accept this or they can strike, realizing that the state then has the right to find someone else to do the yob.

[BSmack]

There ain’t no free lunch.

Nobody is asking for a free lunch. The unions in Wisconsin are asking for the right to bargain collectively. The state is free to bargain in return. This is nothing less than a movement to break the public employees union. And spare me the bullshit about Wisconsin being broke. That's just the kind of hype rich politicians make up when they want to come after more middle class money.

[War Wagon]

And spare me the bullshit about Wisconsin being broke.

They're not?

And i suppose Cali isn't then, either?

[BSmack]

And spare me the bullshit about Wisconsin being broke.

They're not? And i suppose Cali isn't then, either?

Nope. If they were really broke rich people would be suffering. This is nothing but a jack move.

[Arch Angel]

I live in Wisconsin and our company has contracts with the state. They are broke and is even having a hard time paying us, which is around 50mil a year. Doyle kept dodging and dodging and finally came around to pay us. He, a Dummicrat, put this state in a hole so deep that we are nervous that Walker will ask us for our services at a cheaper rate.

He can't raise taxes and the state employees benefits are one of the best in the country as they pay minimum for their health and other bennies. He is just asking them to pay a fair share which is considerably less than what a private sector employee would pay.

[War Wagon]

If they were really broke rich people would be suffering.

That's the dumbest thing you've ever posted.

[BSmack]

The notion that the governments are "strapped" is a lie. The top marginal rates have been cut by nearly 50% since Reagan took office, billions upon billions of unfunded mandates have been pushed onto state and county governments and our federal government took it upon themselves to piss away 2 trillion dollars on a war that we absolutely did not need to fight and has only served to benefit the defense and oil businesses.

And now they want to make up for this self make clusterfuck by making middle class people pay more when our wages haven't gone up on damn bit since the 80s. Damn them all to hell.

[Arch Angel]

The notion that the governments are "strapped" is a lie. The top marginal rates have been cut by nearly 50% since Reagan took office, billions upon billions of unfunded mandates have been pushed onto state and county governments and our federal government took it upon themselves to piss away 2 trillion dollars on a war that we absolutely did not need to fight and has only served to benefit the defense and oil businesses.

And now they want to make up for this self make clusterfuck by making middle class people pay more when our wages haven't gone up on damn bit since the 80s. Damn them all to hell.

huh? What the fuck, dude.

[Truman]

The notion that the governments are "strapped" is a lie. The top marginal rates have been cut by nearly 50% since Reagan took office, billions upon billions of unfunded mandates have been pushed onto state and county governments and our federal government took it upon themselves to piss away 2 trillion dollars on a war that we absolutely did not need to fight and has only served to benefit the defense and oil businesses.

And now they want to make up for this self make clusterfuck by making middle class people pay more when our wages haven't gone up on damn bit since the 80s. Damn them all to hell.

So ? What’s your point? What mandates? Stop passing legislation that we are unconstitutionally obligated to fund. End of problem.

BTW, since when is it so wrong for folks to want to keep their hard-earned in their pocket – where it belongs? Did I miss a memo somewhere that suggests that it is the obligation of the Fed or the State to fund the pensions and healthcare of state workers at the expense of our own well being?

As for your war take…

Is not Congress Constitutionally mandated by Article 1, Section 8 to lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence... to declare War, ....and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water... to raise and support Armies... and ...to provide and maintain a Navy?

Care to point out for me the Article and Section of the Constitution that mandates that Congress provide for cush pensions and free healthcare for federal and state employees?

We're a Republic, not an Oligarchy. If you have trouble reading and understanding the Constitution, PM your phone number and I will be more than happy to educate you. You’re better than this, B.

[poptart]

our federal government took it upon themselves to piss away 2 trillion dollars on a war that we absolutely did not need to fight and has only served to benefit the defense and oil businesses.

And now they want to make up for this self make clusterfuck by making middle class people pay more when our wages haven't gone up on damn bit since the 80s.

Dude, what is your malfunction?

Barry is continuing the wars, yes?
Barry has piled up more debt for us in 2 years than Bush did in 8.
And Barry has proposed adding another trillion and a half to our debt (in ONE year) with his current completely insane budget proposal.

If you want to bitch, bitch about the CURRENT asshole in the oval office.






Friedman on the topic at hand.

[OCmike]

The notion that the governments are "strapped" is a lie. The top marginal rates have been cut by nearly 50% since Reagan took office, billions upon billions of unfunded mandates have been pushed onto state and county governments and our federal government took it upon themselves to piss away 2 trillion dollars on a war that we absolutely did not need to fight and has only served to benefit the defense and oil businesses.

And now they want to make up for this self make clusterfuck by making middle class people pay more when our wages haven't gone up on damn bit since the 80s. Damn them all to hell.

Dude, you're all over the place. I think what you're trying to say is that Wisconsin, CA and others are fucked due to a right wing conspiracy. A sad, but predictably flailing response.

I'm sure you'll attack my link, rather than the info, but here's how it looks in CA as of '09

If your income range is between $0 and $7,168, your tax rate on every dollar of income earned is 1%.
If your income range is between $7,169 and $16,994, your tax rate on every dollar of income earned is 2%.
If your income range is between $16,995 and $26,821, your tax rate on every dollar of income earned is 4%.
If your income range is between $26,822 and $37,233, your tax rate on every dollar of income earned is 6%.
If your income range is between $37,234 and $47,055, your tax rate on every dollar of income earned is 8%.
If your income range is between $47,056 and $1,000,000, your tax rate on every dollar of income earned is 9.3%.
If your income range is $1,000,001 and over, your tax rate on every dollar of income earned is 10.3%.

In fact, the tax rates are so oppressive here, as compared to many other states, that the wealthy have left CA in droves in the past 15-20 years. Since our state derives the majority of its funds from income taxes, we basically kicked our own ass by doing just what you suggest...raising taxes on the bluebloods. That didn't work out so well, so our Democractically-controlled legislature and Governor raised taxes on businesses. And then companies like Microsoft left, taking all of their seven-figure-salaried employees with them. Oops.

This isn't about attacking the middle class, as you suggest. It's about attacking lower class desk jockeys who unionized and clearly overplayed their hand over the past couple of decades, to the point where they artificially-inflated themselves to middle and upper-middle class. I'm not talking about teachers, and first-responders, I'm talking about Joe the bookkeeper at UC Riverside. There is only one reason that someone like that joins a union...trying to squeeze more blood out of the turnip. Guess what? They got every last drop and now they're appropriately fucked.

[Mac22]

here's the sad part about having to cut more for the teachers. I used to teach here in the state, moved to AZ, and am now back but not teaching. I make more money selling tv's at a store in Madison than I did any year of teaching combined with varsity coaching. My starting pay as a teacher was $23k. I looked up the payscale and 5 years later, I still wouldn't be making 30k. I would also be responsible for 12 credits of continuing education as part of my professional development (and 9 credits every 5 after that). A semester of school here is about $4k for tuition.

[Terry in Crapchester]

Call it a hunch, but I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be seeing 25,000 people (not all of them public-sector employees, btw) demonstrating on the streets of Madison if all Walker wanted was for public-sector employees to contribute to their health insurance and retirement. This is a pretty clear-cut attempt to bust the union.

In and of itself, it costs the State of Wisconsin nothing to allow its public-sector employees to bargain collectively. The same can't be said about calling in the National Guard to bust the union, nevermind that's not what the National Guard is for.