The Zach Greinke Sweepstakes

[TheJON]

Z-A-C-K.....

Jesus christ, you live in KC.....

.....spell our Cy Young winner's freakin' name right.

Anyways, I still think Dayton is just throwing "feelers" out there trying to see what teams will offer of for Zack.

It would be dumb to trade him now. If the Royals aren't in contention at the trade deadline (which is likely), he will have more value than he does now because you will find some desperate team in need of a top-notch starter that can get them over the hump and into the playoffs. He has 2 years left on his contract, so he will have value at the trade deadline and next year in Spring training.

2012 is our year to make a run. It's what everyone has pointed to. That won't happen without Greinke. It just sets the organization back another year or 2......making 2013 our first realistic shot of competing most likely. If the Royals are in contention in 2011 or 2012, Greinke will re-sign. I am confident in that based on what he has said.

Trading Greinke = giving up on 2011 (and maybe 2012) before the season has even started. Yeah, I realize the likelihood of KC competing for a division title next year is slim. But weirder shit has happened, and it will be 100% impossible without Zack. The rotation, even with him, is terrible. Who the fuck is going to start Opening Day? Hochevar? Kyle Davies? I mean, are you kidding me???

Hold onto Zack until you absolutely have to trade him. His value will not go down. He just turned 27 years old and is in the prime of his career. Whatever you can get right now for him, you will be able to get that and potentially more later.

That said, Dayton is a fucking moron so he will probably trade him to the Braves for a couple more terrible prospects he scouted when he was with that organization.

[TheJON]

Not many names in the article except one: Ryan Braun

seeing he's under contract for 5 years would be a no brainer swap for the Royals should Milwaukee be stupid enough to offer it

Greinke for Braun would be a decent trade for Milwaukee if we threw in Mike Aviles or Alex Gordon and a prospect.

I think this is a bad trade for both teams and makes no sense. The Royals have plenty of great hitting prospects that are very close to being big league ready. Yes, we need a right handed bat......but Braun is a terrible fielder and we have enough of that. Plus, the rotation is bad WITH Greinke. I don't care how good your lineup is.......if you have as bad of a rotation as the Royals do, it's impossible to win.

If Greinke is traded, it needs to be for an established big leaguer and a top starting pitching prospect that is nearly big league ready. Anything else and I would not make the trade.

[ucantdoitdoggieSTyle2]

2012 is our year to make a run.

A run at what? 75 wins?

Since MLB went to its current divisional format, the highest the Royals have ever finished is 2nd. And they won a whopping 70 games that year.

They routinely finish last or 2nd to last in their division. There's two things you can count on in KC. One; you fucking tards will drop IKYABWAI smack at every turn. Two; the Royals will fucking blow. This will never change.

[War Wagon]

go fuck yourself, asshole.

[Bizzarofelice]

ryan braun's contract has years on it. and it is cheap a fuck. real talk.

milwaukee will keep him.

[TheJON]

2012 is our year to make a run.

A run at what? 75 wins?

Since MLB went to its current divisional format, the highest the Royals have ever finished is 2nd. And they won a whopping 70 games that year.

They routinely finish last or 2nd to last in their division. There's two things you can count on in KC. One; you fucking tards will drop IKYABWAI smack at every turn. Two; the Royals will fucking blow. This will never change.

What does the past have to do with the NOW?

Look at our minor league system.......it's arguably the best in baseball. We've never had a good minor league system because we have never had any kind of depth with prospects thanks to our dickhead owner not allowing our previous GM to spend any money beyond the first few rounds.......and he was even cheap in the first few rounds too.

Now, for whatever reason, he's given our new retarded GM the okay to spend the money needed in the draft to build a real minor league system.

The past doesn't have a god damn thing to do with the future. We have a minor league system in place that is as good as any organization. The odds of the Royals not contending in the near future are slim and none given our depth of talent in the system. It's just a matter of getting the prospects up to the bigs and getting some experience. Just because we don't buy titles like your Yankees (you're a fairweather fan, so I'm assuming you root for the Yanks. Or is it Boston? Same difference) doesn't mean we won't be a good team in the future.

By the way, the Rays think your stat about how the Royals haven't finished above 2nd since division play started is fucking retarded. Yeah, they sure were a perennial contender prior to making it to the World Series a couple years ago. Idiot.

[TheJON]

ryan braun's contract has years on it. and it is cheap a fuck. real talk.

milwaukee will keep him.

Agreed. But I don't think trading him for an ace and maybe a prospect would be a bad idea for Milwaukee. They need pitching. Braun is one of the worst fielders in the game too. So I would say that, for Milwaukee, a staff ace + a prospect would actually be a beneficial move. But obviously it would have to be for a pitcher with a favorable contract. Wouldn't make sense to get a guy that's only got 1 year left on his deal when you're trading a star player that has a 5 year $40 million contact.

How on earth did the Brewers get him to sign that deal? I know he's still relatively young, but 5 years at that salary seems like he got lowballed. Maybe 2-3 years at that annual salary, but not sure why Braun would accept 5. He could get $15-$18 million on the free agent market. 5 years from now his value won't be as high.

[Cueball]

No Braun for you
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5935586

[Paul]

The Royals can officially go FUCK themselves now.... :brad: :brad: :brad:

[TheJON]

Somebody finally broke down the trade and I guess we're getting something more than a keg of old beer and a block of cheese.

Sucks that Greinke wanted out and it sucks we didn't get Braun or someone i've heard of, but at least Passan doesn't make it sound like we got hosed (yet?) like we did in the Beltran deal

We didn't get hosed in the Beltran deal. Beltran had half a season left on his contract and there wasn't even a 0% chance of resigning with Kansas City.

John Buck was a quality catcher and Mark Teahen was a solid utility player. We just didn't keep them around beyond 2009. Teahen + Buck > Nothing. Obviously I would have liked to have gotten back more for a player of Beltran's caliber, but Allard Baird was looking for near big league ready talent and those were the best available. Teahen was one of the A's top prospects and Buck was one of the top catching prospects. Problem is prospects don't always pan out, but at the time it seemed to be a great trade. Just didn't work out as hoped. But when you're trading for ANY prospect, you just never know. It's a numbers game........stock up on as many highly regarded prospects and you will end up with quite a bit of MLB talent. This is something the Royals have never had- until now.

The Royals got hosed in the Johnny Damon and Jermaine Dye trades. Those were a god damn embarrassment. Angel Berroa for Damon and Neifi "Pop-up" Perez for Dye. Those 2 trades and the Mike Sweeney 5-year contract are what prevented this organization from competing in the last 6-7 years. Getting nothing out of Sweeney for those 5 years and then getting nothing for 2 star players was a real killer.

I like the Greinke trade. I don't like trading Greinke, but I thought Dayton did a pretty good job of finding talent at positions of need. Escobar is only 23 and a solid defensive shortstop that projects to become a decent hitter as well. He only batted .250 with a .298 OBP last year, but his BABIP was ridiculously low for his linedrive rate. That means he was unlucky and it should even itself out. His 2011 projections are quite a bit higher. Cain is a quality young CF'er. Those are 2 positions of desperate need in this organization. Both of them are young and have big league experience. The pitchers we got back have potential but probably won't see the big leagues until at least 2012. And the best part of the trade is Yuniesky Pena Jr errrrrrr Betancourt is gone. He was an absolute piece of garbage. One of the worst position players in all of baseball. In fact, he was arguably the worst considering he was a terrible hitter and fielder.

Good luck to Greinke in Milwaukee. I think it is a perfect fit for him. He gets to play in the national league (he's a good hitter for a pitcher) in a small market on a team that is built to win now. He will thrive in that environment. His 2010 ERA was not indicative of how well he pitched. He had a lot of bad luck and then he pretty much just quit in September (don't blame him). Way too many balls in play found holes because his defense had such limited range. He wasn't quite as good as he was in 2009 because his slider wasn't as effective as an out pitch- but he was still pretty damn good. I bet he is something like 18-9 with a 3.19 ERA and 205 strikeouts next year.

[kcdave]

Fuck Greinke. Im way past being tired of the head case. Maybe he will stop crying like a bitch as he will be allowed to hit once or twice a week. Same applies for him as anyone else .... If you dont want to play here, then get the fuck out. Bye Bye nut bag.

[War Wagon]

It was fun while it lasted. I hope Zack does well in Milwaukee and yes, he will fucking love getting to swing the bat.

Now I'm hearing rumors that Soria is on the block.

Lord knows it's not easy being a Royals fan, but what you gonna' do? I can no more turn my back on this team than I could my own child.

That said, what a coincidence that the official announcement from the Royals came while the Chiefs were playing. That was chickenshit.

[TheJON]

Billy Butler went off on Greinke today on the radio. Good job out of him. I can't agree more. This organization bent over backwards for Zack and, even though they failed to do their part in putting a winner on the field, he owed it to Dayton to honor his contract instead of forcing him to trade him.

Ever since his August interview where he ripped on the organization, he's pretty much handled himself with about as little class as you possibly could.

I understand him wanting to win, but help is on the way. What makes him think a place like Milwaukee will be any different? Sure, maybe they win some games the next year or 2 but they are a small market organization too and it's not like they have been some sort of world beater the last decade or so.

It's no surprise Zack wasn't smart enough to get into Florida freakin State. I thought a school like that just admitted everyone???

[War Wagon]

Billy Butler went off on Greinke today on the radio.

No doubt that once he's a free agent, he'll do the same fucking thing.

KC has become nothing but a minor league affiliate and I don't see that changing.

I'm tired of hearing about what a strong farm system they have because it just doesn't matter. As soon as a player develops and gets good, he's the next one traded off for a handful of supposed prospects while they save cap space.

Lather. Rinse. Repeat.

This has been happening for 20 years.

And it's damn shame, because KC really is a great baseball town and would pack that stadium every game if they ever became contenders.

sigh....

[TheJON]

I know it's hard to be patient and I completely understand your frustration. But this organization has a bright future. I know, I know........we've gone through 1,000 rebuilding projects since 1985. Jim Pittsley, Dan Reichert, Mike MacDougal, etc......yeah, I know they all turned out shitty.

But we haven't had a good minor league system since the 1980's. We've always had a couple prospects that were highly touted, but we have not had any depth that I ever recall. Part of that was poor drafting, and part of it was David Glass not allowing Allard Baird to spend money beyond the 3rd round.

Our minor league system is sick. The number of quality prospects at so many positions is unreal. We've been spending money in the draft and getting high draft picks since 2006.

Moustakas, Myers, Hosmer, Lamb, Montgomery, Collins, Colon, Crow etc......

Yeah, they won't ALL pan out. In fact, probably half of them will end up complete busts (it's a numbers game). But it's sorta like college athletics.........the programs that recruit 4 and 5 star players consistently are the ones that win. Half of those 4 and 5 stars turn out to be busts. Same thing in baseball. Half of your big prospects will end up doing nothing, while half of them will end up at least being solid contributors. The problem the Royals have always had was they just haven't had much depth in the system. So when guys like Pittsley and Reichert turned out to be busts, they had no backup plans. That won't be the case for the first time since I began following the Royals in the mid 1980's.

And Billy won't go popping off on the Royals when he leaves because I think he will be here for a long time. He won't even be a free agent until 2014 and I'm sure the Royals will have him locked up for at least a few years after that well before 2014 rolls around. I would be surprised if he doesn't get a new deal at some point in the next year.

Better days are ahead. If you take a look at the organizations that have had this kind of depth in their system over the years you will see that very few of them didn't end up having a contending big league club after a couple of years. 2012 will be a good year because there will be a ton of money available to spend on free agency and all of our prospects should be up by then. I just hope Dayton doesn't screw it up.

[ucantdoitdoggieSTyle2]

What does the past have to do with the NOW?

Everything, you braindead fuck. I don't care what your own personal projections for this team are, until they actually go out on the field and fucking win something, the past is all we can judge them on. Your team sucks. It will continue to suck until such a time has been reached when they stop sucking. Seeing as how we haven't reached that point in time yet, they CURRENTLY STILL SUCK. Why is this simple logic so impossible for you to grasp?

[Screw_Michigan]

Glass is content on getting fat at the revenue sharing trough. The less money he spends, the more money that goes into his pocket. It's a simple as that.

[Dinsdale]

Glass is content on getting fat at the revenue sharing trough.

The Disloyals have taken in more just in revenue sharing than they've paid out in payroll in some years.

And Disloyals fans thinking that trading away BY FAR their best player means the Ws are about to come rolling in?

How very KC.

[TheJON]

What does the past have to do with the NOW?

Everything, you braindead fuck. I don't care what your own personal projections for this team are, until they actually go out on the field and fucking win something, the past is all we can judge them on. Your team sucks. It will continue to suck until such a time has been reached when they stop sucking. Seeing as how we haven't reached that point in time yet, they CURRENTLY STILL SUCK. Why is this simple logic so impossible for you to grasp?

You're so unbelievably dumb, I almost feel bad for your parents.

The past means shit. The players in our minor league system were not here in the past.

Yes, the Royals do still suck. Yes, the Royals have sucked for a long time. But if you think that the past means they will continue to suck, you're dumb.

Remind me exactly how many games Mike Moustakas, Wil Myers, Eric Hosmer, Mike Montgomery, Aaron Crow, etc. have been a part of in Kansas City? 0. They've had NOTHING to do with the losing. So to judge the future of the Royals based on past performances of the organization is plain silly.

I agree, they have to go out and win before we claim greatness for them. That goes without saying. But to base the future of the Royals on past performances of players that won't be on the roster in 2012 and beyond is ridiculous. Stop watching so much ESPN. Learn to formulate your own opinion, idiot.

[TheJON]

Glass is content on getting fat at the revenue sharing trough. The less money he spends, the more money that goes into his pocket. It's a simple as that.

Actually, he has been spending a decent amount of money both in payroll and especially the draft. We had a couple of years recently where we were the top spenders on draft picks.

I can't stand David Glass, but he's done more than just pocket his revenue sharing money recently. 5 years ago that was a different story- he wouldn't spend a god damn penny on the draft or the big league club.

[ucantdoitdoggieSTyle2]

the Royals do still suck.

Now we're making progress.

Remind me exactly how many games Mike Moustakas, Wil Myers, Eric Hosmer, Mike Montgomery, Aaron Crow, etc. have been a part of in Kansas City? 0. They've had NOTHING to do with the losing.

Guess what, tard? They've had nothing to do with winning either. Until they actually do, sit down and STFU. I don't care about the dudes you have down on the farm. Get back to me when they actually accomplish something. Your team sucks. End of story...

[TheJON]

Guess what, tard? They've had nothing to do with winning either. Until they actually do, sit down and STFU. I don't care about the dudes you have down on the farm. Get back to me when they actually accomplish something. Your team sucks. End of story...

Brilliant take. You're as dumb as Goober and have his (lack of) ability to formulate a decent take.

I never said the Royals were good. We are one of the most pathetic excuses of a franchise in all of sports. Have I said anything to the contrary? All I said was if you compare our current minor league system to similar minor league systems in the past, it bodes well for the Royals future because most of the time the big league club has ended up fairing quite well.

I said you can't use the past as an indicator for the future with the Royals because we have never had a minor league system quite like we do right now. You used the past as some sort of proof as to why the Royals will suck in the future and I completely shot down that argument. I never said we are going to win a bunch of World Series titles- though maybe we will. All I'm saying is the odds are in the Royals favor to compete in the near future.

[ucantdoitdoggieSTyle2]

All I'm saying is the odds are in the Royals favor to compete in the near future.

Great... get back to me if/when that actually happens, loser. I could give two fucks about who's in your minor league system. Until they start producing in the bigs, they're not worth talking about.

I am sure the odds are that your posts... someday... won't continue suck as badly your shit franchise, but I won't hold my breath on that one either.

[TheJON]

And I'm sure you one day won't have to resort to talking shit behind an anonymous message board because one day you won't be as big of a reject as you are now.

He who logs onto message boards to talk shit behind anonymous screen names has nothing to talk shit about. It's why they do it. This is pretty much common knowledge.

[Screw_Michigan]

And I'm sure you one day won't have to resort to talking shit behind an anonymous message board because one day you won't be as big of a reject as you are now.

He who logs onto message boards to talk shit behind anonymous screen names has nothing to talk shit about. It's why they do it. This is pretty much common knowledge.

Give me a fucking break, Noj. He's not even getting personal with you, just stating facts, and your vag is hemorrhaging. This is a fucking smack board and you know it. How long have you been posting here, already?

[Goober McTuber]

And I'm sure you one day won't have to resort to talking shit behind an anonymous message board because one day you won't be as big of a reject as you are now.

He who logs onto message boards to talk shit behind anonymous screen names has nothing to talk shit about. It's why they do it. This is pretty much common knowledge.

Because there's nothing anonymous about posting as the TheJON, right, you stupid fucking tool?

[War Wagon]

a real good read on the trade Here

wow, that was encyclopedic.

read today where the Brewers have sold 1500 season tickets since the trade. I guess it's already working out well for them.

[TheJON]

And I'm sure you one day won't have to resort to talking shit behind an anonymous message board because one day you won't be as big of a reject as you are now.

He who logs onto message boards to talk shit behind anonymous screen names has nothing to talk shit about. It's why they do it. This is pretty much common knowledge.

Give me a fucking break, Noj. He's not even getting personal with you, just stating facts, and your vag is hemorrhaging. This is a fucking smack board and you know it. How long have you been posting here, already?

I realize that. But when your SOLE PURPOSE is to log onto here to talk some shit behind an anonymous moniker, you lead a sad and pathetic life- 100% of the time.

He didn't have a valid point. His point was ONLY that the Royals will suck because they sucked in the past. Then he pulls out this bullshit about how he doesn't wanna hear me talking about how awesome they are until they win. Problem is I NEVER did that. I said simply that the odds are in their favor to be competitive in the near future and he got his panties in a bunch over that.

[Mace]

Minor league success does not necessarily translate into major league success any more than a 5 star recruit turning into an all-american. The Royals might have a good farm system but you also never know when a lot of those guys will become trade bait to acquire some veterans in an attempt for more immediate success when a GM is trying to save his ass, or maybe they just don't handle the jump to the majors. I've seen this happen with the Cubs NUMEROUS times. It's possible that the Royals will once again become relevent and I hope they do.

[Mace]

It's possible that the Royals will once again become relevent and I hope they do.

That's pretty much all we have as Royals fans.

It can be done - Minnesota and Tampa Bay are perfect examples

Sure, it can be done in a small market...usually with unknown young players mixed with a few key veterans. All it takes is a GM who can figure out the correct formula to win, assemble the pieces, and then dump them after they have success and start costing them big money. KC has been waiting a long time. Back when I was a kid, the KC A's were basically a farm team for the Yankees, and any good player to come through KC almost always ended up in New York.

[TheJON]

Minor league success does not necessarily translate into major league success any more than a 5 star recruit turning into an all-american. The Royals might have a good farm system but you also never know when a lot of those guys will become trade bait to acquire some veterans in an attempt for more immediate success when a GM is trying to save his ass, or maybe they just don't handle the jump to the majors. I've seen this happen with the Cubs NUMEROUS times. It's possible that the Royals will once again become relevent and I hope they do.

You are spot on with the 5-star recruit comparison. It really is the same. Just like Iowa's 2005 recruiting class full of 4 and 5 stars turned out to be mostly busts. But the thing with college recruiting is it is a numbers game. The teams that have the most consistent success are the teams that recruit the most 4 and 5 stars. Texas, USC, Florida, OU, etc.....they've got 4-5 4 star recruits every year that never make it, but the more you get the better your chances of success are.

In baseball, the more top prospects you have, the better shot you will have of winning at the big league level once they're all up there. FanGraphs had an article that the Royals right now might have the best minor league system of the last decade (that includes the 2006 Rays......they ended up in the World Series and making the playoffs another year since then).

I also saw another prospect ranking site that ranked all minor league prospects by position. Here is what the Royals currently have in their system:

C- #2 prospect (Wil Myers)
1B- #2 prospect (Eric Hosmer)
2B- #9 prospect (Johnny Giovatella)
SS- #7 prospect (Christian Colon)
3B- #1 prospect (Mike Moustakas)
Starting pitching- 6 of the top 50 prospects (highest ranked was Mike Montgomery, then Danny Duffy)
Relief pitching- #7 prospect (Tim Collins)

Overall, we have 3 of the top 15 regardless of position (Moustakas, Hosmer, Myers). That is 3 bats that rank in the Top 15, regardless of position.

Obviously, they won't all pan out. In fact, there's a good chance half of them will turn out to be nothing more than Quad-A players. But with the depth we have, missing on half (or even 60%) of them means this team is going to do a lot of winning in the future.

[TheJON]

The Royals might have a good farm system but you also never know when a lot of those guys will become trade bait to acquire some veterans in an attempt for more immediate success when a GM is trying to save his ass,

This won't happen. Dayton Moore is the opposite because he can get away with it. Our owner doesn't even care about the team. He doesn't even live in KC and rarely even attends games. It took him forever to fire our previous GM and he's given Dayton anything but a short leash. He's not going anywhere and his job is not on the line. He is trying to stockpile as many prospects as possible. I do like this philosophy, but I just wish he would spend money more wisely on the big league club.

I have no worries about Dayton trying to trade them unless it is for other prospects. For example, I could see him trading away one of our many pitching prospects in order to acquire a good outfield prospect if Alex Gordon doesn't come around this year like we have been expecting. We do need a corner outfielder of the future, though there are rumors that our great catching prospect (Wil Myers) will be switched to this role. There's also the possibility of moving Eric Hosmer to corner outfield but that will depend on how well our current DH/1B Kila Ka'aihuie does in 2011 (or at least that is my best guess).

[Bizzarofelice]

when the yankees have a big prospect, they keep them during their prime years.





when the royals have a big prospect, they trade them to the yankees for more prospects.

[TheJON]

when the royals have a big prospect, they trade them to the yankees for more prospects.

Well, except for the fact that the Royals almost never trade with the Yankees......

[ucantdoitdoggieSTyle2]

Nice link, Scotty. Good stuff:

2. Jason Kendall- if you were in your prime when Griffey Baseball for N64 was out, it’s time to hang ‘em up buddy.

4. Jason Kendall – C, Kansas City Royals: Must retire.

5. Jeff Francoeur – RF, Kansas City Royals: A terrible hitter with terrible plate discipline and terrible fielding skills…now playing for a terrible team

4. Melky Cabrera – Leads the league in sandwiches eaten on field. <<--

2. Melky Cabrera – I put him in the 2 slot because that is the average number of pitches it takes to get this idiot out. <<--

[War Wagon]

Now seems a good time to reset this topic. The Royals are 9-4 and tied for first place while Grienke hasn't gotten a batter out yet. Yes, I know it's early. But as I type this they are beating Felix Hernandez 5-0.

Alcides Escobar, while not much with the bat yet, has made play after jaw dropping play at SS. Whatever he lacks with the bat, he's more than made up for with his glove. Not just his glove, but great range and a great arm as well.

For the Francouer haters, all he's done has bat .327 with 2 HR's, 11 RBI and 2 SB while scoring 10 times. Not bad for a "washed up" has been who's only 27 years old. What a great pick-up that's been so far.

Alex Gordon and Billy Butler have also been raking while the bullpen has been nothing short of spectacular. I don't know how long this can last. The SP is very suspect, but by damn this team has been fun to watch so far.

Zack who?

[War Wagon]

I loved the T-shirts his family was wearing at Yankee stadium - "The Melkman Cometh"

Francouer just looks like he's having fun out there everyday. Very seldom do you see him without a big goofy smile on his face.

And what about this Hosmer kid? I hate missing an at bat, every time he stands in I expect him to hit a hard line drive somewhere.

The future is now.