greinke for cy young

TheJON · Post by **TheJON** » Sun Aug 30, 2009 10:22 pm

Best pitcher in the league and its not even close. If he doesn't win the Cy Young I will personally take a baseball bat to the heads of the voters. I don't give a fuck what his record is. It's Greinke and everyone else. Rack Zack!

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Sun Aug 30, 2009 10:34 pm

Another complete game shutout, allowing one bloop hit and one walk in the 2nd inning and then retiring the next 22 batters straight.

Dude was absolutely spectacular today, just toying with hitters and getting stronger and nastier as the game went on.

TheJON · Post by **TheJON** » Sun Aug 30, 2009 10:49 pm

War Wagon wrote:Another complete game shutout, allowing one bloop hit and one walk in the 2nd inning and then retiring the next 22 batters straight.

Dude was absolutely spectacular today, just toying with hitters and getting stronger and nastier as the game went on.

Exactly what I said. They had very few hard hit balls. Lot's of pop-ups and weak groundouts. And that 3-2 curveball to Guitierrez in the 9th was just flat out sick. You could tell he was not expecting that pitch in that situation. Pitchers just don't throw a 66 MPH curveball with a full count and a 3 run lead in the 9th. It's almost unfair.

Oh, and...........

DAYTON MOORE PLEASE DON'T ACCEPT A CONTRACT EXTENSION!!

rozy · Post by **rozy** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 9:40 pm

Freaking one-year wonders. When dude has the experience of Vicente Padilla, get back to me.

-Shoalzie

Shoalzie · Post by **Shoalzie** » Tue Sep 01, 2009 1:14 am

rozy wrote:Freaking one-year wonders. When dude has the experience of Vicente Padilla, get back to me.

-Shoalzie

Shit, at least reference a better Rangers pitcher...how about Millwood?

jiminphilly · Post by **jiminphilly** » Tue Sep 01, 2009 1:25 am

Shoalzie wrote:
rozy wrote:Freaking one-year wonders. When dude has the experience of Vicente Padilla, get back to me.

-Shoalzie

Shit, at least reference a better Rangers pitcher...how about Millwood?

Shit, at least know what team Padilla is on... how about the Angels?

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Tue Sep 01, 2009 1:48 am

TheJON wrote: Exactly what I said.

Actually, you didn't "say" or write anything like that.

And I'm not sure why you felt it necesary to start a new thread that I already had covered back in April.

Attention whore, much?

rozy · Post by **rozy** » Tue Sep 01, 2009 2:00 am

War Wagon wrote:
TheJON wrote: Exactly what I said.
Actually, you didn't "say" or write anything like that.

And I'm not sure why you felt it necesary to start a new thread that I already had covered back in April.

Attention whore, much?

Not the funniest part. Jonsense actually posted in that thread............. 4 days ago.

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Tue Sep 01, 2009 2:13 am

Yeah, roz... but he threatened to cave in some skulls with a ball bat.

I guess that was worthy of its own thread.

TheJON · Post by **TheJON** » Tue Sep 01, 2009 2:16 am

Speaking of the Royals........

Dayton signs a contract extension through 2014.

I hate you David Glass. I fucking hate you.

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Tue Sep 01, 2009 2:28 am

Jon, you do realize it was Dayton Moore who signed Greinke to a 4 year contract extension at a relatively bargain basement price, don't you?

Of course you do.

TheJON · Post by **TheJON** » Tue Sep 01, 2009 3:44 am

War Wagon wrote:Jon, you do realize it was Dayton Moore who signed Greinke to a 4 year contract extension at a relatively bargain basement price, don't you?

Of course you do.

I'm not saying he hasn't made ANY good moves. BUT........is 5 bad moves for every good move.

He did re-sign Greinke, and good thing he did. But he didn't draft him.

Just about the only player playing well for this team right now was an Allard Baird draft pick.

The pitching staff has an ERA of 4.8. Greinke, a Baird player, has a 2.32 ERA. EVERY other pitcher on the staff was brought in by Moore.

Dayton finding Soria and re-signing Greinke have basically been the ONLY good decisions he's made as GM. I suppose Brayan Pena could be a positive but we haven't seen enough of him to know for sure.

I do think there's some cornerstones for the future. The problem is except for Soria, none of them are Dayton's players. I think Mitch Maier is really coming around. I'm not sure if he can keep playing well over an entire year, but I hope he gets a shot next year in CF.

If I were to grade Dayton Moore on the job he's done since coming to KC, I would say without any doubt he gets an "F". He's made bad trades, spent way too much money on shit players, and has really cost this franchise a chance to move towards contending in this division. We aren't winning next year, we aren't winning in 2011. He's put us in a position where we've got to start getting ready for 2012. That's what happens when you trade away good low-priced relievers for a couple mediocre high priced hitters and sign bums like Hozey Guillen and Kyle Farnsworth to expensive contracts.

How would you grade Dayton so far?

SunCoastSooner · Post by **SunCoastSooner** » Tue Sep 01, 2009 1:19 pm

TheJON wrote:I hate you David Glass. I fucking hate you.

I have nothing to add to this statement.

Shoalzie · Post by **Shoalzie** » Tue Sep 01, 2009 1:50 pm

jiminphilly wrote:
Shoalzie wrote:
rozy wrote:Freaking one-year wonders. When dude has the experience of Vicente Padilla, get back to me.

-Shoalzie

Shit, at least reference a better Rangers pitcher...how about Millwood?

Shit, at least know what team Padilla is on... how about the Angels?

Didn't the Dodgers pick him up?

Speaking of the Dodgers...saw that they just added Jon Garland and Jim Thome yesterday before the postseason roster deadline.

jiminphilly · Post by **jiminphilly** » Tue Sep 01, 2009 3:25 pm

Shoalzie wrote:
Shit, at least reference a better Rangers pitcher...how about Millwood?

Shit, at least know what team Padilla is on... how about the Angels?

Didn't the Dodgers pick him up?

Speaking of the Dodgers...saw that they just added Jon Garland and Jim Thome yesterday before the postseason roster deadline.

Shoalz you let me off easy :D

The move for Thome was a smart move- gives them a nice left handed batter off the bench. I'm scratching my head at the Garland move. I'm not sure he's going to add much at this point in the season.

Shoalzie · Post by **Shoalzie** » Tue Sep 01, 2009 3:49 pm

jiminphilly wrote:Shoalz you let me off easy :D

Am I not merciful!?!?

TheJON · Post by **TheJON** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 4:42 pm

Greinke update......

13-8 with a 2.21 ERA

Leads the league in ERA, CG's, and SHO's. 2nd in K's.

Another great outing the other day and no win to show for it. This team is pathetic. 13-15 in his starts this year for a guy having one of the best seasons any pitcher in baseball has had this decade.

He better win the fucking Cy Young. Last I checked it was supposed to go to the player having the best season and no one is even close to Greinke. Best pitcher in baseball, best season = Cy Young. I don't give a shit what his W-L record says. That's a meaningless and overrated stat. It's not possible to have a great record on this team.

battery chucka' one · Post by **battery chucka' one** » Wed Sep 09, 2009 4:12 am

rozy wrote:Freaking one-year wonders. When dude has the experience of Vicente Padilla, get back to me.

-Shoalzie

You ready to admit that Mike Scott was a scuffer yet?

battery chucka' one · Post by **battery chucka' one** » Wed Sep 09, 2009 4:15 am

jiminphilly wrote:
Shoalzie wrote:
rozy wrote:Freaking one-year wonders. When dude has the experience of Vicente Padilla, get back to me.

-Shoalzie

Shit, at least reference a better Rangers pitcher...how about Millwood?

Shit, at least know what team Padilla is on... how about the Angels?

Please remove the avatar of an incredible ballplayer who, thanks to your manager, doesn't have an AS by his name for 2009. No, I'm not bitter. And you still don't want us in a short series.

TheJON · Post by **TheJON** » Fri Sep 18, 2009 4:37 am

Another great outing by Greinke, though they took him out after the 5th for precautionery reasons due to getting hit by a line drive.

There has never been an easier decision for Cy Young and I swear to fucking god if ProZack doesn't get the award, there will be some fucking hell to pay.

WHIP, ERA, CG, SHO.........#1 in the league. #2 in strikeouts.

2.14 ERA in 30 starts = Cy Young.

Anyone that doesn't understand how overrated wins are is FUCKING DUMB and should contemplate suicide (ahem, everyone at ESPN).

Shoalzie · Post by **Shoalzie** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 3:16 am

He only went six tonight but another strong performance. My big thing is that his last two starts this season appear to be both against the Twins. Howsabout a couple wins in those games, eh?

TheJON · Post by **TheJON** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 3:31 am

1 run given up in his last 35 innings. ERA now at 2.08. 15-8 record.

There are no Cy Young candidates. Only a Cy Young winner (Greinke).

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 2:27 pm

TheJON wrote:Anyone that doesn't understand how overrated wins are is FUCKING DUMB and should contemplate suicide (ahem, everyone at ESPN).

Below is a comparison of Pitcher A and Pitcher B.

Code: Select all

W	 L	ERA	 G	 IP	   H	  R	 ER	SO	 WHIP	 AVG
21	5	2.83	33	241.2	202	82	76	213	1.06	.231
13	8	1.87	32	211.1	151	51	44	185	1.01	.198

Pitcher B, in my opinion, dominated most stats. Pitcher A won the Cy.

And before you try to point out the difference in innings pitched, Pitcher A averaged 7 1/3 innings an outing. Pitcher B averaged 6 2/3 an outing. That's two outs a game more. And that season, Pitcher A had an average of about 5 runs a game run support. Pitcher B averaged about 2 runs a game run support.

So, while Pitcher A had a Cy Young type season, I still think Pitcher B deserved it. However, win column speaks louder than everything else to the voters.

jiminphilly · Post by **jiminphilly** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 3:19 pm

battery chucka' one wrote: Please remove the avatar of an incredible ballplayer who, thanks to your manager, doesn't have an AS by his name for 2009. No, I'm not bitter. And you still don't want us in a short series.

Incredible? He's far from incredible. Besides, had your fans actually given a shit, perhaps they would have voted him as a starter but you fuckers are too lazy to punch a few holes in a ballot and as a result your tubby 3b was left off the roster because he can't play the OF which was depleted because injury.

In a short series I'll take the Philles in 4 and I really have no preference who they play.

ucantdoitdoggieSTyle2 · Thu Sep 24, 2009 5:53 pm

IndyFrisco wrote:
TheJON wrote:Anyone that doesn't understand how overrated wins are is FUCKING DUMB and should contemplate suicide (ahem, everyone at ESPN).
Below is a comparison of Pitcher A and Pitcher B.
Code: Select all
W	 L	ERA	 G	 IP	   H	  R	 ER	SO	 WHIP	 AVG
21	5	2.83	33	241.2	202	82	76	213	1.06	.231
13	8	1.87	32	211.1	151	51	44	185	1.01	.198
Pitcher B, in my opinion, dominated most stats. Pitcher A won the Cy.

And before you try to point out the difference in innings pitched, Pitcher A averaged 7 1/3 innings an outing. Pitcher B averaged 6 2/3 an outing. That's two outs a game more. And that season, Pitcher A had an average of about 5 runs a game run support. Pitcher B averaged about 2 runs a game run support.

So, while Pitcher A had a Cy Young type season, I still think Pitcher B deserved it. However, win column speaks louder than everything else to the voters.

Sup, Chris Carpenter?

Santana should have won the AL Cy Young that year too:

Code: Select all

 Finish	Name	Team	W	L	ERA	CG	SHO	SV	IP	H	BB	SO
1	Bartolo Colon	LAA	21	8	3.48	2	0	0	222.2	215	43	157
2	Mariano Rivera	NYY	7	4	1.38	0	0	43	78.1	50	18	80
3	Johan Santana	MIN	16	7	2.87	3	2	0	231.2	180	45	238

TheJON · Post by **TheJON** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 2:17 am

So, while Pitcher A had a Cy Young type season, I still think Pitcher B deserved it. However, win column speaks louder than everything else to the voters.

That's because the voters are idiots.

15-8
2.08 ERA

#1 in shutouts, ERA, WHIP
2nd in CG's, K's

Having one of the best seasons any pitcher this decade has had........if not the best.

6 games this year Zack has given up 0 or 1 run and not gotten a win. Twice he has left a game with a 3-2 lead and gotten a no-decision. Wins are the most overrated stat in the game. It's not Zack's fault the team is pathetic.

By the way, Greinke got tossed from the game today. And he wasn't even pitching! Home plate ump was straight up cheating (they have been this entire series vs Boston) and Zack from the dugout goes "you gonna call any strikes today?". Ump turns to him and says "what?". Then Zack says something like "your strikezone is ridiculous". Ump: "You're outta here!". Rack PlanetZack! He's over his social anxiety, apparently. Now he's got tourette's!!

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 3:07 am

Nice Jim Eisenreich reset, Jon.

rozy · Post by **rozy** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 3:14 am

Homers disgust me. Now I'm pulling for King Felix to get the Cy. 20 starts giving up 2 runs or less vs. 16 for Greenkey.

...and more wins...

TheJON · Post by **TheJON** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 3:18 am

rozy wrote:Homers disgust me. Now I'm pulling for King Felix to get the Cy. 20 starts giving up 2 runs or less vs. 16 for Greenkey.

...and more wins...

Homers??????

This has nothing to do with homerism. He is the best pitcher in the game. He is having one of the best seasons ANY pitcher this entire decade has had. If he doesn't win the Cy Young, it's a fucking joke.

It isn't even close.

rozy = ESPN parrot. Wins are overrated. Greinke would have 20-22 if he played on just an average team.

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 1:03 pm

I don't think you need to get your panties in a wad jon. Greinke will win it. If he doesn't, he's the Clemens of 2005.

TheJON · Post by **TheJON** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 6:15 am

IndyFrisco wrote:I don't think you need to get your panties in a wad jon. Greinke will win it. If he doesn't, he's the Clemens of 2005.

I'm not so confident in that. I really think he needs to win these last 2 starts to have a shot.

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Sun Sep 27, 2009 6:35 am

Look, I like Greinke, but my biggest issue is the guy has faced zero adversity this year. Nobody knows how good he truly is, and nobody will really know until he inevitably gets picked up by a playoff-contending franchise.

TheJON · Post by **TheJON** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 4:17 pm

Did someone really just say Zack has handled no adversity? No one in baseball has handled more adversity than him. The guy is putting up one of the most amazing seasons of the past decade. Idiots think wins are a meaningful stat for pitchers. Let me say it again- 6 times Zack has given up 0 or 1 ER and did not get a win. Twice he left with a 3-2 lead and got a no decision. On top of all this he has a pathetic defense behind him. How many times do you think this defense makes big plays for him? Almost never. We have below average fielders at every position on the field besides left field. Zack is a great fielding pitcher though. There is no debate- Zack is the winner. Wins Above Replacement (WAR)- regardless of position, guess who ranks number 1 in baseball? That's right- Greinke. Pujols is 2nd. ESPN has a Cy Young rating system based on your numbers. Guess who is number 1? Greinke. Lowest WHIP, ERA, rarely gives up a HR, lowest slugging pct, 2nd in K's, first in CG's, etc....are you guys kidding me? There is no debate on who should win this. I can't believe this bullshit.

TheJON · Post by **TheJON** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 9:03 pm

Another pathetic performance by Zack. Gave up a run. Cut him.

16-8
2.06 ERA
6 CG's
3 Shutouts
237 K's

Definitely better Cy Young options than that. In fact, I don't even know why we re-signed him long-term.

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 12:40 am

MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote:Look, I like Greinke, but my biggest issue is the guy has faced zero adversity this year. Nobody knows how good he truly is, and nobody will really know until he inevitably gets picked up by a playoff-contending franchise.

What?

Playing for the Royals, now that's adversity. So what's he do today? Goes out and shackles a team that's in a late playoff drive and needed that game badly to gain ground.

And I think anyone who has watched him pitch this year knows just exactly how good he is. A 2.06 ERA in the AL? That's absurd.

Planet Zack is a freak... and he's not going anywhere soon. KC has him locked up for another 3 years, barring some ridiculous trade that would have every Royals fan storming the GM's office lynch mob style.

I said it back in April and I'll say it again now. Just hand the man the Cy Young award. There shouldn't even be any discussion.

TheJON · Post by **TheJON** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 2:07 am

Cliff Lee sure was impressive in the Indians playoff run last year.......oh, wait!

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 3:15 am

R-Jack wrote:I don't want to diminish the point because I agree with it to an extent,

but one must appreciate the humor associated with a Royals fan constantly trying to drive the point home of how meaningless a stat like wins are.

In regards to this discussion, wins are a meaningless stat.

But here's a stat that speaks to his value.

The Royals drew 1.8 million fans to the old ballpark this year, the most since 1993. While some of that number may be attributed to the stadium renovations, my contention is that the buzz around Zack contributed greatly to that number.

And also that the ROI of his 4 year, $39 million dollar contract was a bargain.

TheJON · Post by **TheJON** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 10:59 pm

Toddowen wrote:What position does Grieske play? I've never heard of him, so naming him to win an award is out of the question, especially considering that he's about to go into hibernation for the year. By this time next week he'll be as forgotten as the fireflies.

But if he really wants to try and make a name for himself, The Yankees are potentialy looking for a good DH next year. Does he swing the lumber well? There could be one of those awards in it for him if he can.

I don't know if this was the worst attempt at humor in the history of these boards or the worst take ever in the history of these boards.

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:20 pm

Both.

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:31 pm

Btw, nice article on Yahoo today from Jeff Passan that should quiet the trolling naysayers somewhat... because that's what anybody who says Grienke doesn't deserve the award is doing. Trolling, and badly at that.

Instant classic: Greinke and Mauer meet

By Jeff Passan, Yahoo! Sports
Sep 28, 1:39 am EDT

The schedule never conspired for them to meet until Sunday, which is a shame, really, because Zack Greinke vs. Joe Mauer is baseball’s version of an Old West gunfight. There is nothing so lonely for a pitcher as to stare at a man hitting .370, just as there is nothing so frightful for a hitter as to face a foe with an ERA around 2.00.

And yet fear obstructed neither in the first at-bat of the season between the should-be American League Cy Young and Most Valuable Player award winners. Greinke hurled unfair sliders, and Mauer laid off 96-mph fastballs, and Greinke won out when Mauer couldn’t help but lunge and miss at a slider that ended up in the dirt. Same thing in Round 2, when with the bases loaded and one out Mauer flailed at a slider that registered 91 mph.

No pitcher had struck out Mauer twice in a game this season, let alone both times swinging, but then Greinke isn’t any pitcher. He notched win No. 16 Sunday, and that should be enough to convince holdouts that his season – with an ERA half the league average – is worthy of the Cy Young.

Greinke allowed an earned run in seven innings as Kansas City stopped Minnesota’s winning streak at five. It was the second run opponents scored in his last 43 innings. Since Aug. 25, Greinke has taken his AL-best ERA and shaved nearly half a run off it, all the way down to 2.06.

“He was just flat-out nasty,” said Mauer. As the Twins embark on a final-week push to outfox Detroit for the AL Central title, they’ve got two roadblocks. The first comes in a four-game series against the first-place Tigers starting Monday. And the last arrives in Minneapolis on Saturday, in the form of the very same pitcher who, with seven scoreless innings, will put up just the 11th season of 230-plus innings with a sub-2.00 ERA since the mound was lowered, and so …

1. Even though Zack Greinke is a postseason non-entity, it’s worth recognizing the breadth of his accomplishment one final time, as this week’s 10 Degrees hopscotch across the best seasons in baseball this year (along with some honorary degrees for the snubbed).

Lost among Greinke’s sparkling numbers is the environment in which he has done it. He plays on a terrible team. No, terrible does not do the Royals justice. Before their annual (and meaningless) September surge, Kansas City threatened to lose 100 games. Again. For the fourth time since Greinke arrived in 2004.

The ability to isolate himself from such pervasive losing – to overcome what surrounds him – is perhaps the most impressive sliver of Greinke’s season. No pitcher has done so since Steve Carlton somehow won 27 games during the Philadelphia Phillies’ 59-win season in 1972. Since that year, of all the pitchers with adjusted ERAs of 182 or better – that was Carlton’s, and it meant he was 82 percent better than league average – just four of 24 have pitched on sub-.500 teams: Kevin Brown in 1996 (80-82), Roger Clemens in 1997 (76-86), Pedro Martinez in 1997 (78-84) and Greinke (63-92).

Even if the Royals win out – and they won’t – that still makes them six games worse than Clemens’ ’97 Blue Jays. So here’s to Greinke’s mental strength – a hallmark now, less than four years after anxiety troubles almost forced him from the game – and to a well-deserved award...