Steve Kerr, Mike D'Antoni,

Diogenes · Post by **Diogenes** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 9:32 pm

Now it looks like Jalen Rose doesn't know anything about the Suns (or basketball in general) either.

As long as the dipshit collective here says so, that is...

Adding Shaq to Suns seems the wrong fit, but this deal could work
By Jalen Rose

When the Phoenix Suns signed Grant Hill to a two-year contract in the offseason, I saw the handwriting on the wall -- a deal involving Shawn Marion would be coming some day, sooner or later.

It looks like that day is here. When I was on the Suns last season, I always used to tell Marion that Amare Stoudemire is the big stud down low, Steve Nash is the MVP, but he's the MIP -- the most important player. Marion's a great defensive player who can lead you in steals and blocks, get you 20 points and 12 rebounds, and you don't even need to run a play for him.

And now we have this proposal sending the MIP to Miami with Marcus Banks for Shaquille O'Neal.

I actually like this move for both teams, but I can see how a lot of people are going to be down on this deal.

You can see why. I'm a basketball fan, too. The Suns and Shaq together seem like an oxymoron -- the Suns pride themselves on leading the league in scoring, spreading the floor with 3-point shooting and precision execution with the trademark Suns' style of play led by Nash. And to this mix, you add an aging Shaq?

This tells me there has been a clash of styles in Phoenix. Playing for coach Mike D'Antoni last season, it was run, run and run some more. But general manager Steve Kerr has implemented a more defensive mentality.

D'Antoni likes to play as few as seven guys anyway, so this move would give more time to Leandro Barbosa, Raja Bell and Hill in most games. They're going to need Shaq for extended minutes only when they're facing big centers (roughly 30 percent of the games) -- that's what the Suns need Shaq for now.

In the playoffs, the game is going to slow down some, and that's again where Shaq comes in to play. Somebody's got to play the 5, why not the Diesel?

But if you're a Suns fans, keep your fingers and toes crossed for good health for Shaq and Hill, especially.

In one way, I'd be a little disappointed to see this deal happen. I wanted to see if this current version of the Suns could finally break through with that lineup and style, having fallen short the past three seasons for different reasons.

This could be a good move for Miami. The Heat would be getting a guy who could be an All-Star caliber player for them for the next five seasons, if they can sign him to an extension.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/s ... id=3233246" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 9:38 pm

Nope -- you're still a moron.

Jalen doesn't really say any such thing.

You'll notice the only positive spin he put on it was the "clash of styles," and also subtly suggests that Amare's defense blows goats (which is what every other article on the subject says, too).

Diogenes · Post by **Diogenes** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 9:43 pm

Dinsdale wrote:You'll notice the only positive spin he put on it was the "clash of styles," and also subtly suggests that Amare's defense blows goats...

Dinsdale wrote:Jalen doesn't really say any such thing.

Or even suggest it. But if a clueless twit like you says so, maybe they shouldn't even bother playing the rest of the games this season.

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 11:03 pm

Diogenes wrote:Or even suggest it.

So, to support your idiocy, you post a new thread in which you fully confess that the author you quote refutes the point you were trying to make by posting the thread?

Question -- does your brain even work well enough to allow you to breathe on your own, or do you need someone to constantly remind you?

bbqjones · Post by **bbqjones** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 11:09 pm

done deal

suns in 7 over the spurs

suns in 6 over boston

make your time bitches

Raydah James · Post by **Raydah James** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 11:20 pm

Buwahahahaha.

Exactly like Dins and I pointed out:

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/7768076" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Shaq will force Suns to alter run-and-gun style

More than anything, dealing Shawn Marion and Marcus Banks for Shaq constitutes a firm rebuke of Mike D'Antoni's quick-draw game plan. After all, Steve Kerr won NBA championships with both the Bulls and the Spurs, two outfits that valued defense above all. After becoming intimate with the Suns personnel and with D'Antoni's mind-set over the first half of the season, Kerr's worst fear was realized — that a helter-skelter defenseless team such as the Suns was absolutely incapable of winning the last game of the season.

The trade, then, marks a widening rift between the coach and the GM of the Suns. It says here that unless Phoenix cops the title, D'Antoni will resign.
In any event, let's take a deeper look at what the deal signifies for both teams.

What Miami loses
A weighty obligation to pay $40 million to watch Shaq continue to go through the motions for another two seasons.

In other words, nothing much.

What Miami gains
In Shawn Marion, the Heat get a player who should be revitalized by going from an offense where he was the third option (behind Amare Stoudemire and Steve Nash) to an offense where he'll be the second option (behind Dwyane Wade). If Marion has lost a step on defense, he remains a dynamic sprinter, leaper and finisher as well as an effective 3-point shooter.

One caveat: What does it say about a player who would rather play for a cellar-dwelling team then for a semi-legitimate contender? (Think Joe Johnson.) It says that Marion's main concern is to satisfy the demands of his ego. What will happen when Riley and Marion inevitably go ego-to-ego?

In Marcus Banks, the Heat get one of the most talented point guards in the league. He can shoot, scoot, and defend.

However, there are a few things Banks can't/won't do ... like work hard and get along with his teammates. But Banks has to realize that he's running out of chances. Bet that a combination of his guaranteed playing time and Riley's forceful leadership will finally get Banks to realize his potential.

Overall, the Heat can now open up their offense and tighten their defense. If they can draft, trade for, or sign a capable center over the summer, then Miami will be back into the playoff mix.

Grade for Heat: A

What Phoenix loses

Even Marion's diminished defense will be a huge loss since it leaves Raja Bell as the only other potential stopper. Also, Marion's ability to run, spot up and bury his funky 3-ball attempts will put a severe crimp in the Suns fast break.

And if Stoudemire was a sorry defender at the center spot, he'll be even worse when he has to move away from the basket and defend power forwards. Moreover, with Shaq parked in the middle, Stoudemire's opportunities to make appropriate dive cuts in the wake of Nash's tricky penetrations will be greatly diminished. Stoudemire now becomes more of a jump shooter than anything else.

Shaq's presence will likewise curtail Nash's creative ventures into and through the paint.

Although Shaq sets massive screens, his subsequent rolls/rumbles to the basket will give the defense ample time to make adjustments. And when Phoenix runs screen-and-rolls with other players, opposing teams will be able to switch with impunity since any small-on-big mismatches can't be trumped in the low post.

Also, since Marion is a better rebounder than Shaq, the Suns will be more vulnerable than ever on their offensive glass. Plus, Marion could grab a defensive rebound, turn and carry the ball into the attack zone without necessarily having to find Nash. Obviously, this is something that Shaq is quite incapable of accomplishing — which means that the Suns running game will be even more short-circuited.

Losing Banks' unrealized potential has absolutely no impact on Phoenix.

What Phoenix gains

The subtraction of Marion's self-serving attitude that caused so much discomfort in the locker room. (Of course, Shaq has never been know for this )

A huge physical presence in the lane that can hopefully off-set the manner in which Tim Duncan, Andrew Bynum (and now Pau Gasol) have dominated Stoudemire's perfunctory defense.

A go-to guy who will command double-teams when the pace slows down come the playoffs.

A rejuvenated Shaq, who will be out to show the world once more that he still has some gas left in his tank. Just imagine how geeked he'll be when Phoenix plays the Lakers.

But even in his prime Shaq was never a good rebounder or defender. Any opponent who can face-up-and-go (like Duncan and Gasol) can still abuse him.

Also, can Shaq's miserable performances at the stripe justify going to him in the clutch?

Grade for Suns: C-

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 11:57 pm

Raydah James wrote: And if Stoudemire was a sorry defender at the center spot, he'll be even worse when he has to move away from the basket and defend power forwards.

No way, dude.

Amare will undergo an amazing transformation once he moves to his natural position. He'll suddenly remember that stuff his PeeWee League coach tried to teach him, and he'll go from the second-worst defending big man (sop Zach Randolph) to the always-keeping-his-feet-moving guy we know him to be.

Give it a rest, dude -- just because Amare can't remember where he's supposed to be while defending the few feet in front of the rim and is constantly out of position, that's no reason to think he won't be All-Defense when he has to gaurd guys that play the perimeter and put the ball on the floor and dribble.

I can see Amare stopping Pau dead in his tracks. I can't think of a big that's better suited to stopping Pau off the dribble than Amare Statuemire.

But hey -- even if by some fluke this deal doesn't work, they didn't give up too much of the future. I mean, so what if they'll have no cap space for at least 2 years after this one. With their young core group of Barbosa and... Barbosa, they should be just fine.

Man, think about that for a minute -- The Lakers are bringing along Farmar, Turief, a couple of Euros, and the Trailblazer's Kid isn't exactly old.

The Blazers are bringing Roy, Aldridge, Oden, Webster, and Outlaw to the party, and too many other guys to even be able to develop.

The Hornets have Chris Paul and David West, plus some other potential.

The Wolves are looking grim right now, but they have Al Jeff and Randy Foye, and a bunch of others who could well pan out.

Seattle has Durant and Jeff Green.

Utah is going to be ripping face with Boozer and Williams for quite some time to come (do those guys remind you of anyone?).

Suckremento hasn't quite settled into a clear building path, but they have options. Kevin Martin looks good so far, and they have some young talent.

Dallas at least has Howard and Harris.

San Antonio is long past due for a rebuilding phase, but they have such a winning tradition these days that they might be able to offset the pending fall with some free agent signings.

Phoenix -- they just took on Shaq's contract. Their future looks like... Barbosa. Oh, I suppose Raja has plenty of years left... and goodness knows, there's no replacing a "defensive specialist" that gets lit up for 30 every night.

Speaking of... hardly a week goes by where my buddy and I don't manage to reset Kobe's epic blast after Bell ran his mouth in the playoffs...

When asked about Bell's comments, Kobe merely responded...

"Who?"

That's been Bell's nickname ever since -- Who?*

But it's bad enough Phoenix got worse this year. But now they've gone and given the franchise the death sentence, in the name of getting rid of a malcontent... dumbdumbdumb. If dude was really that unhappy, then fuck with him... bench him if need be. Might prompt him to opt-out, which would have put Phoenix in an excellent position for the coming years. In one fell swoop, Kerr just doomed the franchise.

Just an absolutely shocking, head-scratching day in the NBA. I'm not sure I've ever seen an exec commit professional and franchise suicide with that much precision.

* -- Not to be confused with another guy who went by that nickname... Portland's one-year-wonder, Wally Walker. While it is the same word recycled, the inflection is completely different, thus it doesn't violate the "no recycled nicknames" rule.

bbqjones · Post by **bbqjones** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 12:05 am

suns fan just wants one, ONE, ONE fucking ring.

when the suns traded for barkley way back when, they gave up three starters. turned out pretty ok. made the finals and got beat by jordan.

lets do a stat total for next month

shaq
bynum
odom

you guys and the rest of the experts are so so so so scared of this lineup now and are just praying its only two trophies in a row until the sunstrain breaks off.

bwahahaha

iloveyouguys.

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 12:24 am

Q, since you represent the non-idiot Sunsfan contingent here, let my express just how truly sorry I feel for you right now. You've stuck with your team through thick and thin, and this is what it got you.

I feel bad for you. I'm laughing at Dio and the rest of the Suns fans, which is one of the least knowledgable, myopic fanbases in the NBA.

My condolences, man. Going to be a tough few years for you.

BTW-Sir Charles had plenty of game left in his body when he went to Phoenix. The Big Washed Up doesn't.

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 12:27 am

bbqjones wrote:suns fan just wants one, ONE, ONE fucking ring.

And also BTW-speaking from experience, getting one ring just leaves you jonesing for more.

I guess that's the difference between Suns fans and Blazer fans... and Laker fans for that matter -- you want one... we want ten... in the next ten years. And fortunately for two of the aforementioned groups, it's a possibility.

bbqjones · Post by **bbqjones** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 1:04 am

just got off the phone with two high school buddies who had not heard the trade was final.

we all- well two and a half of us (ones a homo) agree that this is good for phx. like throwing a firecracker under a drunkards folding chair. it shakes it up, it wasnt like we could get past san antone before, so, good deal now that ive talked to some non espn wanker experts. this is the first of two in a row. then you guys are rigtha. its all over then. but we get our rintgs. steve kerr is the karl rove of the nba. please dont reply that im wrong. youll hate it later.

did i mention that amare gets in foul trouble alot. bwahahahaha. i love this shit. especially coming from laker and blazer fan. we hold the cards now fuckers.

bbqjones · Post by **bbqjones** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 1:05 am

Dinsdale wrote:Q, since you represent the non-idiot Sunsfan contingent here,

i represent that implications

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 2:12 am

http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/262/shaqphxvc9.png" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Mook · Post by **Mook** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 4:01 pm

Dinsdale wrote:
Raydah James wrote: With their young core group of Barbosa and... Barbosa, they should be just fine.

I kind of figured Stoudemire would still qualify in the "young" category.......the guy is all of 25....

And although I think he needs to get tougher.......Diaw is a whopping 25 as well.

A core young group of Stoudemire, Diaw and Barbosa isn't horrific Dins.

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 4:12 pm

Never been that impressed by Diaw.

Amare is one of the most overrated players in the NBA. He's probably the best open-court big in the league, and is near-worthless in every other aspect of the game... but he can improve in the low post. He can hone a lot of his skills. But his attitude is complete shit, and it's been unchecked for much too long for him to ever change it. I no longer think it's a case that he's just a poor defender -- he honestly believes it's not his job. He's half a player, just like Tainted.

But I'll tell you what -- if Shaq comes out and shows us what a walking, talking piece of human shit he really is and brings the lumber, the trade doesn't look nearly so bad. Either way, Shaq loses -- either he's washed up (which the Big Ego will NEVER admit), or he's been cadillacing it, showing that $20 mil isn't enough to get him to show up to work and do his job. The media will ignore what a piece of shit he is, and suck the Big Shaq Cock any time he does anything positive.

Although from reading around news sources, blogs, and all that whatnot, there's a lot of people that think Shaq is the Suns' defensive savior.

This shows two things:

-Sunsfan really is this big a fucking idiot.

-Amare really is this feeble on the defensive end... but he'll become fleet-footed and start shutting down 4's like Mychael Thompson on meth when he moves to his "natural position."

Mook · Post by **Mook** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 4:22 pm

AND......I think we need to view this move for what it is. The Suns (read Steve Kerr) believes this move gives them a better chance to win a title this year. I think everyone knows this is a very high-risk move that has been pulled by PHX. Now Dins, I would think you of all people might actually support this move for Phoenix as you yourself said the current team had NO chance of winning the title......if that is truly the case then they should be commended for taking steps to improve that chance. Now you may not like Shaq but who was available out there? The next Bill Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Hakeem, Duncan? Nope....those guys werent' available so PHX took their chance with Shaq. I understand the gamble they took and think we will have to see how the season plays out to know for sure whether or not this move "worked". And, as for salary cap ramifications the Suns are trying to win right now, salary cap ramifications be damned and for that I respect them. And as I mentioned in the previous post they have a reasonable young core of players that if they keep intact will keep them competitive for the next 5-10 years and I think all three of those guys are under contract for the next several years.

Mook · Post by **Mook** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 4:33 pm

Dinsdale wrote:Never been that impressed by Diaw.

Amare is one of the most overrated players in the NBA. He's probably the best open-court big in the league, and is near-worthless in every other aspect of the game... but he can improve in the low post. He can hone a lot of his skills. But his attitude is complete shit, and it's been unchecked for much too long for him to ever change it. I no longer think it's a case that he's just a poor defender -- he honestly believes it's not his job. He's half a player, just like Tainted.

I'm not going to say Stoudemire doesn't have his weaknesses.....but to say he is "near-worthless in every other aspect of the game" is beyond a stretch. I understand that you despise all things Phoenix Suns but this hatred of yours really gets in the way of objective reason. On to the subject at hand Stoudemire.....he is an offensive force and I believe his game will improve with Shaq on the team. He will find it easier to stay out of foul trouble because he won't be forced to defend bigger, stronger centers. He is also a pretty fair rebounder......I think he went for 20 boards last night. Look I think the guy has a big ego but that is hardly unique among the NBA superstar set. Regardless of your opinion on Stoudemire you have to admit that he has played out of position for his entire career and yes, I understand that has worked to both his benefit and his detriment.

Mook · Post by **Mook** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 4:34 pm

Dinsdale wrote:http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/262/shaqphxvc9.png

By the way.....this I enjoyed!

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 4:47 pm

Mook wrote:And, as for salary cap ramifications the Suns are trying to win right now, salary cap ramifications be damned

Werd.

Sin,
Joe Johnson, James Jones, Sergio Rodriguez, et al

I realize most of those penny-pinching moves were before Kerr, but the "screw the cap" attitude is brand new as of yesterday. Hell, they were freaking selling draft picks on the open market (which the Blazers scooped up two years in a row, and have benefitted greatly from) just to save a few bucks.

In the unlikely event this deal actually works out, Kerr looks like a genius, and us doubters look like idiots. But that's one hell of a gamble for a first year exec to take. Especially for a guy that is the polar opposite from the coach's philosophy. Then again, it's rumored that Kerr absolutely hates the whole 7-second dealio... can't say I blame him.

Mook · Post by **Mook** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 5:02 pm

Dinsdale wrote:
Mook wrote:And, as for salary cap ramifications the Suns are trying to win right now, salary cap ramifications be damned

Werd.

Sin,
Joe Johnson, James Jones, Sergio Rodriguez, et al

I realize most of those penny-pinching moves were before Kerr, but the "screw the cap" attitude is brand new as of yesterday. Hell, they were freaking selling draft picks on the open market (which the Blazers scooped up two years in a row, and have benefitted greatly from) just to save a few bucks.

In the unlikely event this deal actually works out, Kerr looks like a genius, and us doubters look like idiots. But that's one hell of a gamble for a first year exec to take. Especially for a guy that is the polar opposite from the coach's philosophy. Then again, it's rumored that Kerr absolutely hates the whole 7-second dealio... can't say I blame him.

James Jones wasn't penny-pinching.......James Jones is a very average player. Not bad, mind you........just not real good either. Certainly one who can be easily replaced.

Joe Johnson preferred to be "the man" in Atlanta than "a contributor" behind Nash, Stoudemire and Marion on the Suns. That doesn't make Joe Johnson good or bad, just the decision he made.

And yes, they've been shopping draft picks the last few years, I understand why and it happens. They were hoping that ATL's pick would come through this year. Kind of a bad break for Phoenix the way it happened. It'll be interesting to see what happens with this team not only this year but into the future.

And say whatever you want about the 7-second deal, but it is certainly fun to watch.

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 5:12 pm

Mook wrote:James Jones wasn't penny-pinching.......James Jones is a very average player.

I beg to differ. It's the Phoenix philosophy that failed, noit James Jones.

While the Blazers were looking into Jones, more than one exec/former coach claimed he was "the best locker room guy in the game." He's a fierce defender (not that anyone remotely involved with the Suns organization is even capable of noticing such things).

Only knock on the dude is a touchy knee. Maybe no one noticed that until a week or so ago, until the knee started acting up, he'd led the NBA in 3pt shooting since his first game. BTW-he's shelved until after the break to rest the knee, although I think he wants to play.

You say "average," statistics say "best outside shooter in the NBA." I'd say that's more a case of his crappy coach not knowing how to utilize him. And again, being a "fierce defender" is a concept lost in Phoenix.

As far as the 7 Seconds -- dude, I'm a lifelong Blazerfan. That was part of the deal here for decades. The difference is, the great Blazer running teams ran out of solid defense, rather than watching their opponent score 130 and trying to run off the made field goals... and there's a banner hanging up there that says this is a better way to go about a running game, rather than the Suns philosophy. It can be done -- just not by having your best players running around waving their arms and calling it "defense."

Oh, and btw-last season, KP claims he got trade offers from 29 teams(that would be "all of them") for Sergio Rodriguez (which he should have taken, but that's a different story). He said some were suprisingly attractive, with some fairly big name players. The Suns parlayed Serg into what... like a million extra bucks to pay Shaq with? Crazy.

Mook · Post by **Mook** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 5:25 pm

Dinsdale wrote:
Mook wrote:James Jones wasn't penny-pinching.......James Jones is a very average player.

You say "average," statistics say "best outside shooter in the NBA."

We argued the same point about Raja Bell and his shooting last year.....statistically Bell was the best three point shooter in the NBA last year.....yet you said he wasn't a good shooter. I'm not sure why these statistics suddenly become relevant now that they benefit Jones. Regardless, the Suns didn't get rid of Jones because of penny-pinching. They have Barbosa, Bell, Grant Hill and at the time Marion....they had too many players at a similar position and in my opinion as somebody who watched a number of games that JJ played they got rid of the right guy.

Jones is a good defender, he is a decent shooter who is very streaky. There are a number of James Jones' in the NBA. Once again not a slam just a fact. There are also a number of Raja Bell's in the league as well. I'm not saying he's something he isn't either. All that said my 8 year old son liked James Jones a lot, he was one of his favorite players on the team and it crushed him that James Jones was let go. My son had met Jones when we were at a park and Jones was VERY nice to my boy, so I argue this point against Jones while having a very soft spot in my heart for the guy!

The Rodriguez deal was a good one for the Blazers.

Mook · Post by **Mook** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 5:28 pm

By the way, how do you guys like my Jayhawk boy Pritchard up there? That guy was a hell of a ballplayer in college. Very, very athletic guy.

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 5:40 pm

Mook wrote:By the way, how do you guys like my Jayhawk boy Pritchard up there?

By "up there," do you mean in the city that's proposing changing its name to Pritchardville?

Since you go back to his Jayhawk days, you're still allowed to refer to him as Kevin Pritchard. Everyone else shall call him "The Savior." Although KP works, too.

What we really enjoy about the guy is watching him walk across the surface of the Wllamette River, on the occasions He doesn't just wave his arms to part the waters.

Not even sure how he finds time to run a team, with his busy schedule of healing the sick and turning water to wine.

He's running uncontested in the race for the newly named position of "Supreme Ruler of Portland."

Every street in town has been named Pritchard Avenue. Giving directions gets confusing, since everything is now located at the corner of Pritchard and Pritchard, but we get by.

Does that answer your question?

Diogenes · Post by **Diogenes** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 7:41 pm

Interesting column from ESPN...

Guess what? The Suns just made a fantastic trade
By Scoop Jackson

The world has finally given up on Shaq.

Many feel the gimmick is up, there's no room left for the games, that he's not worth his weight or contract on anyone's roster anymore. "Damaged goods," is how one man described him. "Stupid," "Dumb," "Doesn't make any sense," and "What in the #@$% were they thinking?" are some of what's being said. If you've read ESPN.com or any blogs, listened to any sports talk radio or had time to peep the sports pages, you'd know that the Suns are catching heat for bringing Shaquille O'Neal into their almost perfect basketball universe.

The same kind of heat the Lakers caught when they gave him up and gave up on him almost four years ago.

But this time the world is looking at this wrong -- too caught up in "Shaq is no longer Shaq" to see how this plan in Phoenix can come together like something originated by Hannibal Smith. See, Shaq doesn't have to be Shaq for this to work. It's just a matter of if it's financially worth it to the Suns in the short run and if Shaq is willing to go along for the ride. If so, SHQ to PHX could be the next-to-best thing that ever happened to the Suns. It's all about how "the best team in the NBA to not have a championship" decides to play it.

Shaq doesn't fit into their style of play. Even if he's in the best shape of his life, he can't get up and down the floor with the Suns. He'll be worthless on offense, and he's going to destroy their flow. He's lazy. He's not going to work hard. He's injury-prone. He's not worth the money. They still won't win a championship with him there.

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Sorta wrong. Maybe. Yes. Wrong. Wrong.

In Miami (and in L.A. and Orlando before) Shaq was Option 1 or 2, and over the past two seasons that became a problem. In Phoenix, he'll be Option 4, maybe 5. Mike D'Antoni should have no plans to depend on Shaq for any offense -- heavy emphasis on "depend." Not in the conventional way that everyone is thinking. The pressure on him to score 20 and grab 10 is finally over. Now he'll be the Big Decoy. And because he won't be double-teamed (remember he's still one of the best-passing post players in the game, and the Suns are one of the best outside-shooting teams in the League, hitting 38.7 percent on 3-pointers along with four players capable of dropping 20 to 30 every night), Big stands a chance of being more valuable by doing less in Phoenix.

The beauty is -- again, if the Suns play this right -- Shaq doesn't need to be a part of their transition game, he just needs to ignite it.

Rebound, turn, outlet! Rebound, turn, outlet! Precision. Execution. Buckets. Only six seconds off the shot clock. Back on D. Repeat. So unfair.

It will be so systematic that no one will be able to stop it once it gets perfected. And for those who think it's predictable and defenses will be able to shut it down, here's one to grow on: Whenever teams played the 49ers, they knew where, when and how Jerry Rice was going to get the ball. Yet for years, the best defenses in the game could not do anything to stop it. Nothing. The Niners won four rings with Rice, proving that predictability when perfected, works.

On defense, all Shaq needs to do is breathe, partially because Amare Stoudemire is so active. As long as Shaq doesn't move (and get in foul trouble, which my be a bigger problem on offense), no one'll get hurt. Remember Chief from "One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest"? That's Shaq all day on defense. Just play the paint, don't protect it.

There's more grief from the world about this. Grief of how "the Suns should have kept Shawn Marion," how he was "their best defensive player and best rebounder" and how "there's no player in the League like him." All true. But Marion wanted to go. He wanted out of everyone's shadow and the organization's underappreciation of him. And before the Suns ended up like the Grizzlies after trading Pau Gasol and getting "the twin of nothing" in return for the Matrix, they decided to get someone who, if you checked his history, guarantees your team will either get to the NBA Finals or win a ring.

Orlando? Finals in three years. L.A.? Finals in four years, three rings in eight. Miami? Finals and ring in his second season.

See, the Suns are outthinking all y'all. They know that one thing comes almost assured with this trade: They will win a title with Shaquille O'Neal in the lineup. It's just a matter of whether the one ring they get with him is worth the years they won't win while he's still there. The Suns have never won an NBA championship -- just like Miami before Shaq arrived. And if they're smart, they can take the one they'll win and milk it for 30 years -- just like Portland. The question is if $20 million per for the next two seasons is worth getting the one year of ring service they're going to get from Shaq.

There are so many other variables that play to the Suns' favor in this: a front line of Stoudemire, Shaq and Boris Diaw that no squad in the West can match -- not even the Lakers, when Andrew Bynum comes back with Gasol in the slot. Amare will be able to play his natural position, power forward, which causes matchup drama for any other team. Steve Nash is going to get open looks because of Shaq's presence and how coaches automatically forget about other players on the court because they are still afraid of getting killed by Shaq in the playoffs. Shaq's and Grant Hill's passing ability in the half-court will be more dangerous than Nash's, which will now increase the assist-per-game ratio for the team, which is the most difficult stat in the League to alter and one that correlates most to a team's ability to win. Big might come to town rejuvenated. He probably hears everything that's being said about him, which could send him back into 2005-06 mode. Just being gone from Miami with all of the hot mess surrounding his divorce will give him a new lease on his life. Robert Horry might think twice about running a Suns player into the scorer's table next time.

Variables that no one outside of Steve Kerr's office and Robert Sarver's bank account could possibly comprehend. The fact is, by attaining the services of Shaquille O'Neal and not expecting or needing much from a productivity standpoint in return, the Phoenix Suns may have made the most ingenious move in the NBA in the past 10 years. Only time will tell. It's just a matter of how wrong they -- and he -- really want to prove the world to be.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/st ... son/080207" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Degenerate · Post by **Degenerate** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 8:13 pm

Diogenes wrote: Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Sorta wrong. Maybe. Yes. Wrong. Wrong.

Rack all Shaq/Yao Ming resets.

Diogenes · Post by **Diogenes** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 6:37 am

Some comments by Steven A. Smith...

http://fantasysportsmatrix.com/videos/s ... -finalized#" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Diogenes · Post by **Diogenes** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 7:11 am

Add Jerry Colangelo to the list of amateurs who don't know squat about Suns Basketballl...

Searching for Title, Suns Take a Chance
Rob Schumacher/The Arizona Republic, via A.P.

It wasn’t Jerry Colangelo’s money, any more than it was his call. But the Phoenix Suns were the flagship of his long sports entrepreneurship, the desert seed planted 40 years ago. It stands to reason that any man whose franchise legacy is priceless has a vested interest in the future.

Colangelo was a 28-year-old general manager in the team’s first year, 1968. He had a couple of coaching runs and wound up fronting an ownership group from 1987 until 2004, the year he was inducted into the Basketball Hall of Fame.

“I maintain a title as chairman, and I am available to consult,” Colangelo said Friday from Atlanta, on a different kind of road trip, accompanying his wife and daughter while they tend to an antiques business at various shows. “For this deal, Steve Kerr and Mike D’Antoni did ask for my opinion. We talked about the pros and cons. At the end of the day, I was supportive of going forward.”

Who can say now that by the end of the season, or the two subsequent to this one, Kerr the team president, D’Antoni the coach and the owner Robert Sarver will have invested in a Suns championship or wasted tens of millions for an antiquated version of Shaquille O’Neal?

Given the pros, cons and likely consequences of doing nothing, how could they pass?

“We’ve had tremendous success over the years,” Colangelo said, “but we haven’t won it all.”

Not with the team that pushed the Celtics hard in the 1976 N.B.A. finals or with the Charles Barkley-led group that was one stop away from forcing Michael Jordan’s Bulls to a seventh game on the road in 1993 or with the contemporary eye candy assembled by Bryan Colangelo, the son of the franchise Supernova, now administratively relocated to Toronto.

Why would a team with the best record in the Western Conference sacrifice a core player, Shawn Marion, and compromise its intrinsic run-and-gun playing style to accommodate a soon-to-be 36-year-old and increasingly stationary or sidelined O’Neal?

Because the best record this week could become the fourth or fifth-best next week in a conference so stacked with quality that its 10th-place team, Portland, would be fourth in the East.

Because Tim Duncan and the defending champion Spurs — who defeated the Knicks, 99-93, in overtime Friday night at Madison Square Garden— are still in the way and because the Lakers keep getting bigger and better and because Steve Nash isn’t getting any younger.

The best pair of point guard eyes west of Jason Kidd turned a youthful 34 Thursday but the legs tick to a different body clock. If this is about a closing window, why not add O’Neal’s strength to make sure it doesn’t slam shut?

As Jerry Colangelo said, you can marvel at Nash’s nifty assists, the Suns’ video-game scoring tabulation and their average of 59 victories over the past three seasons, and you still come away with zero titles.

“The biggest question in the playoffs was always about our halfcourt game,” Colangelo said. “And until someone wins in playing the Phoenix style, that was going to be a question.”

It was one already answered by the Suns the last three years, when they were welcome catalysts in reversing the trend of tedium that had overtaken N.B.A. offenses but, in the final analysis, not much more than a sexy marketing scheme.

A preferred style is one thing. A team limited to that style is another. One day back in the early 1980s, a coach of some renown, Red Holzman, eavesdropped on reporters covering his excitable young Knicks, arguing whether they should run or play half-court. He later sidled up to one and said, “Don’t write that stuff,” though not that blandly.

He explained that championship basketball invariably had to be a compendium of styles and strategies, and a roll call of N.B.A. champions would bear that out, starting with the most recent. In their playoff series with the Suns last spring, the supposedly staid Spurs won games by scoring 114, 111 and 108 points.

With a presumably healthy if diminished O’Neal, the Suns, who defeated the SuperSonics, 103-99, on Friday night, can diversify their offense, and they will have someone to at least challenge Duncan, Yao Ming and the other conference giants, freeing Amare Stoudemire to terrorize power forwards.

O’Neal is still 7 feet 1 inch and 325 pounds of obstruction, a four-time champion and a locker-room presence. Coming from Miami, how can he not be re-energized by another chance to win and thwart Kobe Bryant in the process?

“Some people have already discarded the idea that Shaq can do for us what Kareem did for the Lakers at the end of his career, but we’ll see,” Colangelo said, speaking of Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, without choking on the name.

He lost the 1969 coin flip that landed Kareem in Milwaukee and settled for a competent center named Neal Walk. But that’s sports, the difference between good and great typically no more complicated than heads or tails, or playing a hunch.

The better option, in this case, than doing nothing, just running and running, until Steve Nash is on empty.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/09/sport ... ref=slogin" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

RadioFan · Post by **RadioFan** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:37 am

I've heard the "oh, but look what Kareem did for the Lakers" comparison.

Thing is, Phx isn't the Lakers of the 80s, nor is the lummox even in the same galaxy as Kareem -- not by a longshot. But, we'll see.

Diogenes · Post by **Diogenes** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 2:52 am

RadioFan wrote:I've heard the "oh, but look what Kareem did for the Lakers" comparison.

Thing is, Phx isn't the Lakers of the 80s, nor is the lummox even in the same galaxy as Kareem -- not by a longshot. But, we'll see.

The point to the comparison (and Wilt on the '72 Lakers was another one mentioned) is that having the fast break as a major part of your arsenal doesn't mean you need a 5 player break. That and that Kareem was pretty fucking old and not that fast at that point. I'm betting instead of Amare being the one sending the outlet across the floor, he'll be spending a lot more time under the opponent's basket. And in those cases where you need to go to a halfcourt game, having O'Neal drawing the offense in will help everyone else.

Based on what was being said on last night's game, Shaq should be starting Wedsday or Thursday at the soonest, next week vs. the Lackers at the latest. Next five games (if I remember correctly) ...

Golden State
Dallas
L.A. Rapers
Boston
Detroit

We should see sooner rather than later.

Diogenes · Post by **Diogenes** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:09 pm

Another clown making that stupid 'showtime' comparison.

Who the fuck is Byron Scott and what does he know about it anyway?

Suns set to make a run with Shaq
By Benjamin Hochman
The Denver Post
Article Last Updated: 02/09/2008 11:46:45 PM MST

When a game slows down, the Suns are hoping Shaquille O'Neal, left, will be able to contribute like Kareem Abdul-Jabbar did for the Lakers late in his storied career. Byron Scott's first reaction was an expletive. Some NBA folks are skeptical that an aging caboose can keep up with a locomotive offense. But the Hornets coach said he believes center Shaquille O'Neal can, indeed, fit in with the Suns' offense.

Scott was there the last time it happened.

"It reminds me a lot of the way we played," Scott, a Lakers guard in the 1980s, said. "With Shaq, they'll still be able to run. And it does make a lot of sense, because deep in playoffs, you need post presence, someone who demands a double team."

During those glistening days in Los Angeles, the "Showtime" Lakers won three titles and numerous playoff rounds with Kareem Abdul-Jabbar at center. Those Lakers, like these Suns, had a fast- paced offense with an MVP point guard. Sometimes, the slow- footed Abdul-Jabbar would have as much effect on a play as Dyan Cannon. But, when the game slowed down, like it sometimes does in the postseason, the Lakers suddenly had a fierce, albeit aging, weapon.

"The greatest thing about Kareem, which I feel is the same with Shaq, is they're very unselfish," Scott said. "He'd let the other guys shine, but we also knew when we needed that basket, he was the go-to guy."

From point guard Magic Johnson's first season, in 1979-80, to 1985-86, Abdul-Jabbar never averaged less than 21.5 points per game. Then in 1986-87, a title season, he averaged 17.5, and in 1987-88, also a title season, he averaged 14.6.

O'Neal is 35, the same age as Abdul-Jabbar in 1982-83. O'Neal is having his worst season of his career — while playing for Miami, the worst team of his career. His 14.2 points and 7.2 rebounds kept the perennial all-star out of the All-Star Game.

But, Shaq is still Shaq, even if it's only in spurts.

"Shaq is still the most dominant force on this planet, so I would never doubt him," Nuggets center Marcus Camby said. "Every organization he's gone to, he's had success."

Offensively, he will help the Suns just by showing up to work. Yes, there might be moments where the fastbreak offense loses its strength in numbers. But in the half-court set, teams will have to double-team O'Neal, at least for some portions of the game.

Coach George Karl, whose Nuggets play Phoenix three more times in the regular season, is well aware of this sobering reality: "One of the reasons Phoenix was excited is because they have a team that — if you double-team, they're going to get what they want. And they like the 3-ball, they love the 3-ball, they live with the 3-ball. I still think Shaq is awful powerful. If you're going to play him straight-up, you better have three or four centers."

Phoenix, it seems, feels it can make a playoff run with O'Neal, just as it did in previous years. But the Suns often had trouble defending big men, notably San Antonio's Tim Duncan, whose Spurs beat the Suns last season. O'Neal will join Amare Stoudemire in the paint, giving the dynamic Stoudemire more freedom in his new power forward spot.

And now, if the Suns are matched up against, say, the Lakers, they have two beasts to counter Andrew Bynum and the recently acquired Pau Gasol.

Come the playoffs, it's showtime.
http://www.denverpost.com/nuggets/ci_8218455" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Fri Feb 15, 2008 5:46 pm

How's that trade working out, anyway?

Shaq's been absolutely tearing it up for the Suns, right?

Diogenes · Post by **Diogenes** » Fri Feb 15, 2008 6:05 pm

They're 3-1 without Marion or Shaq in the lineup. Unlike some individuals, I'll reserve judgement until he actually plays a game or two. One thing I know won't happen though (from an otherwise excellent piece above)...

The Suns have never won an NBA championship -- just like Miami before Shaq arrived. And if they're smart, they can take the one (at least) they'll win and milk it for 30 years -- just like Portland.

After Shaq and Nash's contracts expire in 2010 (and Amare's-but he's going to be a Sun for a while) they're just going to rebuild and reload.

It's nice having a team players actually want to come to.

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Fri Feb 15, 2008 6:22 pm

Diogenes wrote:They're 3-1 without Marion or Shaq in the lineup.

I see you know about as much about Suns basketball as you do about... well, everything else.

Nice work, tard.

Golden State ringing any bells with you, moron? How about the Hornets? That name sound familiar?

Believe it or not, some of us actually follow the NBA, and know these things, unlike your casual-ass.

And yes, it is very nice having a team players want to come to.

Sin,
Myriad free agents who have accepted much lower offers to come play for the Blazers over the last 10 years or so

bbqjones · Post by **bbqjones** » Fri Feb 15, 2008 7:13 pm

Dinsdale wrote:How's that trade working out, anyway?

Shaq's been absolutely tearing it up for the Suns, right?

bwah. coming from 10-12 last twenty two games portland? youre too much dins.

lets see, shaq has a big fatass problem and kobe hurt his pinky. guess we'll find out wed how well the trade is working out.

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Fri Feb 15, 2008 7:26 pm

bbqjones wrote: bwah. coming from 10-12 last twenty two games portland? youre too much dins.

But for to for an how fiddlesticks?

The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog?

What does the Blazers' hitting-the-wall have to do with the Shaq trade, exactly?

If it's raining in Burma, then coats are two-for-one in Chicago?

Leave an empty Natty can under your pillow tonight, in hopes that the Logic Fairy leaves you a little sumpm-sumpm.

bbqjones · Post by **bbqjones** » Fri Feb 15, 2008 7:37 pm

suns by ten last night over one of the conference favorites. WITHOUT SHAQ. without marion. and with lots of old man grant hill grabbing 15 boards. the suns doctor people are renowned for being really renowned. daddy is going to bring it and the whole western conference knows it. you have five days to spout, but you best come correct thursday morning. good luck roy.

bbqjones · Post by **bbqjones** » Fri Feb 15, 2008 7:39 pm

so what, he only had five boards. barbosa scored 26 again. this team is rolling .

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Fri Feb 15, 2008 7:55 pm

bbqjones wrote:suns by ten last night over one of the conference favorites. WITHOUT SHAQ. without marion.

Oh, I see.

How did Josh Howard, Stack, and Harris do for Dallas?

the suns doctor people are renowned for being really renowned.

That shit has been cracking me up. I guess they go by the theory "if you repeat something enough times, people will start to believe it."

But here in the real world, the Suns' doctors are renown for being monumental fuckups... not sure how that morphed into "excellent." Wait, it hasn't, outside of Suns' press conferences.

Thanks to the Suns "renowned" doctors, they have a 25 year old jock who can't even go 33 minutes a game, and probably never will.

And I'm sure Joel Przybilla is thrilled at the prospect of going up against Daddy 5 times in a regular season. I hope Shaq becomes the idiot that gets too jiggy with a long-armed, 7'1" guy who spends his spare time boxing.

But I'm sure Shaq will be fine. Nothing says "professionalism" like showing up unable to play for conditioning reasons... after being traded from someone's active roster.

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Fri Feb 15, 2008 7:59 pm

But I'll bust out a Dr T reset just for you and you new has-been, bbq.

http://download.yousendit.com/1132E5AA66B0CFDF" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;