For Van - Re: Steve Vai

Atomic Punk · Post by **Atomic Punk** » Sun Oct 22, 2006 12:07 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9-XN3mX ... ed&search=

Yep, never been done before. What did he do prior to ripping off Eddie Van Halen? Paint numbers on curbs and asking for a buck? Use dirty rags to wipe windshields and threaten to smash it with a brick if not given a tip? What a goddamned joke.

Oh, and nice stage show. At least Gary Moore doesn't put one to sleep. Don't give me this technically better bullshit either Van. Vai is a ripoff artist. If he was so good, "David Lee Roth" with Billy "Shithead" Sheehan would have been a better band than the original one wouldn't he?

Fuck Vai in a Van down by the river... or so you hope.

Here is little Stevie Vai back in the day:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IryT6S_S ... ed&search=

Dork

Mississippi Neck · Post by **Mississippi Neck** » Sun Oct 22, 2006 3:50 pm

Hendrix, Page, Clapton

continue...

Mister Bushice · Post by **Mister Bushice** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 4:48 am

Atomic Punk wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9-XN3mX ... ed&search=

Yep, never been done before. What did he do prior to ripping off Eddie Van Halen? Paint numbers on curbs and asking for a buck? Use dirty rags to wipe windshields and threaten to smash it with a brick if not given a tip? What a goddamned joke.

I don't see where EVH is all that much better than that first vai clip.

Oh, and nice stage show. At least Gary Moore doesn't put one to sleep.

and what kind of show would EVHs have been without DLR or SH?

Don't give me this technically better bullshit either Van. Vai is a ripoff artist.

SO many guitar players are. Everyone has to learn from someone.

If he was so good, "David Lee Roth" with Billy "Shithead" Sheehan would have been a better band than the original one wouldn't he?

Their only two albums did pretty well, actually. Album number 2 went platinum. Then Sheehan and Vai left for other projects. I dont' think you can say they didn't do fairly well.

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 5:07 am

Atomic Punk wrote:What did he do prior to ripping off Eddie Van Halen?

Uhm, about the time Eddie was gaining recognition, Stevie was getting a full ride scholarship to Berklee. After that, he was transposing for, and playing with Frank Zappa.

Dumb "take."

BTW -- do you really think EVH was the first to use hammer-ons in rock?

Who was Eddie ripping off?

YD · Post by YD » Mon Oct 23, 2006 3:32 pm

I've never understood the attraction to guitar geeks with monster chops, that

absolutely have no idea whatsoever how to communicate to a broader demographic than other homo shred geeks.

millions of people can name 10 van halen songs, how many can name one Vai song, or one to his credit? not to mention steve has to give lessons ,clinics, and tours to make a living. while buffoons like angus young are rich as hell. very funny to me.

it doesn't matter if you are technicly the best in the world at your instrument, if people can't relate to your "art", then you suck. impressing other geeks doesn't make you great.

shred fags

bwahahahahaaa!

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 3:49 pm

Yeah, Timmay, I prefer the musicians I listen to to have as little talent and technical prowess as possible.

And the horrah....a guy does short-tern side projects to finance his own studio, so he can play the music he wants, rather than let a corporate entity decide what he should release...becasue as MTV has proven, that always works out well and results in a quality product.

Just think, if Stevie had just joined Madonna's band, he could be rolling in the dough.

That was freaking stupid, dude...truly.

YD · Post by YD » Mon Oct 23, 2006 4:00 pm

once again , you've used your ample witt, and posting ability to totally miss the point.

madonna? dude. steve vai is ghey

you know about as much about guitar as I do about arabica beans.

my favorite guitarists are all technicly skilled, but also have a sense of melody, and ear for the "right" part. You replace classic solos on zepp, or beatles tunes with a flury of faggy notes, you have shitty music.

shredders are tards. trust me on this one

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 4:10 pm

timmay wrote: my favorite guitarists are all technicly skilled, but also have a sense of melody

Go you youtube, filesharing, whatever...listen to For The Love Of God....then punch yourself in the face for being such a flaming retard.

Headhunter · Post by **Headhunter** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 4:24 pm

Why is it that Vai detractors seem to have absolutely no knowledge of his music. They all have one opinion... Mindless masturbator with no sense of melody.

Flippin' tards!

Check out K'm Pee Du Wee...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLD0kJOB5I8

Another mindless display of shredding!

Mister Bushice · Post by **Mister Bushice** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 4:27 pm

timmay wrote:once again , you've used your ample witt, and posting ability to totally miss the point.

madonna? dude. steve vai is ghey

you know about as much about guitar as I do about arabica beans.

my favorite guitarists are all technicly skilled, but also have a sense of melody, and ear for the "right" part. You replace classic solos on zepp, or beatles tunes with a flury of faggy notes, you have shitty music.

shredders are tards. trust me on this one

Oh so - because you don't like it or because it doesn't top the charts or make millions of dollars, it isn't any good?

Certainly vais music isn't for everyone, but neither is the beatles, or AC/DC, or metallica, or robert Johnson for tht matter. That doesn't mean they don't have talent, or a fanbase.

You aren't the arbiter of taste in music, and never will be. Neither is anyone else.

These threads about "who is better" are useless.

Telll me - are they based on sales, chops, appeal, or just personal taste?

let me guess....

Headhunter · Post by **Headhunter** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 4:37 pm

Dinsdale wrote:
Who was Eddie ripping off?

Page. EVH even admits as much. Page was horking from Paginini, who I think horked it from Ogg, who was once seen to tap on a very early Pterodactly 3 string.

Yeah, musicians are all original.

Felix · Post by **Felix** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 4:51 pm

Mister Bushice wrote: Certainly vais music isn't for everyone, but neither is the beatles, or AC/DC, or metallica, or robert Johnson for tht matter. That doesn't mean they don't have talent, or a fanbase.

I notice that RUSH is conspicuously absent from that list.....

good thing too........

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Mon Oct 23, 2006 4:52 pm

Always nice to see this "debate" pop up once a quarter or so. I'd be worried about the state of this board, if I went 6 months without seeing a "Vai sucks/shreds, etc." thread.

I'm with Timmay on this one (no secret there, I'm sure), but good god man, those were some horrible arguments.

Cuda · Post by **Cuda** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 4:55 pm

Doesn't this toipc have its own separate fora?

Eaglebauer · Post by **Eaglebauer** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 5:06 pm

Rack Timmay.

YD · Post by YD » Mon Oct 23, 2006 5:15 pm

MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote:good god man, those were some horrible arguments.

look who I'm arguing with. baby steps

btw buschki, I know I sound like it, but I realize I'm no arbiter of what is suk and good.

I think shredders are fags, any song I hear is not gonna change that.

arabicas, dins

Luther · Post by **Luther** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 5:15 pm

Yeah, rack Timmay. Half the assholes in this place that claim they play the guitar, are the finest air guitar players on the face of this earth. A tune comes pumping out of the dash mounted factory speaker and by GOD it must be Steve Vai or some other recluse who lives in his moms basement. Some phantom air guitarist has it cranked so loud in his Sentra that the chick in the Jetta just flipped them off.

That is when I laugh.

Rip City

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Mon Oct 23, 2006 5:21 pm

"fag" is a bit polite, Timmay.

More like permanently-padlocked-outta-the-closet-homosexual.

Regards,

YD · Post by YD » Mon Oct 23, 2006 5:28 pm

guitar is such a polarizing subject

Mister Bushice · Post by **Mister Bushice** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 5:31 pm

Aw shit, I forgot to add "sexual preference" and "looks like a fag" to my list of determinate factors for whether a musician is good or not.

my bad.

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 5:32 pm

Headhunter wrote:Why is it that Vai detractors seem to have absolutely no knowledge of his music. They all have one opinion... Mindless masturbator with no sense of melody.

Flippin' tards!

Check out K'm Pee Du Wee...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLD0kJOB5I8

Another mindless display of shredding!

More like another mindless display of noodling all over the freeboard.

It's OK, but nothing I would ever pay money out of pocket to see.

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Mon Oct 23, 2006 5:37 pm

Watching/Listening to guys like Vai is like watching the Strong Man competition on ESPN. Pretty cool to see once, but not an experience I want to repeat.

Mister Bushice · Post by **Mister Bushice** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 5:44 pm

I agree. I wouldn't pay to see him, and I don't repeatedly watch the vids, but from a guitar players point of view, he can do things on the guitar I can't and never will, but I learn stuff that makes me a better player with out actually sounding more like him playing wise ( I'm not into the shredder style but some of his modal licks are fun to play).

But I like good vocals, harmonies and lyrics in songs, so what the fuck do I know. :)

Rack Fu · Post by **Rack Fu** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 5:47 pm

timmay wrote:I've never understood the attraction to guitar geeks with monster chops, that

absolutely have no idea whatsoever how to communicate to a broader demographic than other homo shred geeks.

millions of people can name 10 van halen songs, how many can name one Vai song, or one to his credit? not to mention steve has to give lessons ,clinics, and tours to make a living. while buffoons like angus young are rich as hell. very funny to me.

it doesn't matter if you are technicly the best in the world at your instrument, if people can't relate to your "art", then you suck. impressing other geeks doesn't make you great.

shred fags bwahahahahaaa!

I more or less agree with the point that you're trying to make. I wouldn't say that they suck because people can't relate though. That's a bit much.

RadioFan · Post by **RadioFan** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 5:52 pm

Headhunter wrote:
Dinsdale wrote:
Who was Eddie ripping off?

Page. EVH even admits as much.

He's also mentioned Allen Holdsworth. He sounds a hell of a lot more like Holdsworth than Page.

YD · Post by YD » Mon Oct 23, 2006 6:16 pm

eddie vh was HUGELY influenced by billy gibbons as well.

VH cut their teeth as a zz top cover band

Goober McTuber · Post by **Goober McTuber** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 6:19 pm

Looks to me like he was hugely influenced by Foster Brooks.

Van · Post by **Van** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 9:56 pm

Blame Goober for drawing me back in here. Didn't know about this one, had no intentions of bothering with 'em anymore either but hell, this one was specifcally addressed to me so I kinda had to respond.

Again, blame Goober.

EVH's main influence was Eric Clapton, not Jimmy Page. Later, it was Allan Holdsworth. I hear almost no Clapton in the guy but hey, that's who he listened to and that's who he mainly credits as being his main early influence.

Holdsworth, yeah, I can see that. EVH is not even on the same planet as Holdsworth as a musician or as a guitar player but there's some obvious Holdsworth legato influence there. It's kind of a kid with a giant forehead riding the short bus and licking the windows similarity, but it's there.

All I'll add about Vai:

-Dude dresses a bit glam for shows (not so much though these days...it was more part of the 80s era...these days he's most likely to be found on stage in some simple slacks, boots and an open collared shirt...) but dude's as hetero as it gets. Actually he's full on Ward Cleaver Family Man Hetero Dude, ie, the devoted family man with the wife, kids, dogs (and bees). That is, if only Ward Cleaver were married to the formerly insanely hot chick guitar player from the old 80's era chick metal band, Vixxen.

-Anybody who can't tell that Vai is one of the most melodic players ever on a guitar is simply too ig'nant to be worth bothering over in these discussions. To say Vai is a mindless shredder is just a straight up admission of mental retardation. Nine times out of ten people who say shit like that simply haven't even heard Vai, except for twenty year old DLR videos. Vai's command of rhythm, phrasing and his melodic abilities in particular are light years beyond anything EVH's ever done.

-Vai's also far superior to EVH at EVH's own shtick, tapping. (Which EVH didn't even invent anyway.) EVH's tapping is downright pedestrian by modern standards and Vai simply makes EVH look like a rote amateur whenever he really decides to get serious with the two hand tapping/phrasing.

Dins, here's one I hadn't seen before...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Lb9h0J_ajA

Just listen to the orchestra, you monkeys. If you can't hear the melody there then just tap out.

Need something more accessible?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1VjwciFLAg

Still don't get it?

Stick to Metallica and Nirvana. You're hopeless.

YD · Post by YD » Mon Oct 23, 2006 10:48 pm

those links were neet. as a guitar player, I think its really great. nobody else cares.

all I'm saying.

there's ten guys in my town who can shred like all those tards, one guy that knows WHAT to PLAY when.

guess who gets the sessions, no matter what kind of music it is?

YD · Post by YD » Mon Oct 23, 2006 10:49 pm

Van wrote:
Stick to Metallica and Nirvana. You're hopeless.

and you stick to playing in your bedroom to and for yourself

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 11:04 pm

Van wrote:Dins, here's one I hadn't seen before...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Lb9h0J_ajA

Just listen to the orchestra, you monkeys. If you can't hear the melody there then just tap out.

He should have titled that one "For the love of god JUST STOP!"

It sounded like 2 minutes of Yanni followed by 6 minutes wanking all over his keyboard.

Need something more accessible?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1VjwciFLAg

Sounds like mid 70s Jeff Beck. This I can get down with.

Van · Post by **Van** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 11:40 pm

timmay wrote:there's ten guys in my town who can shred like all those tards, one guy that knows WHAT to PLAY when.

True. And Vai is always that one guy. Also, it's one thing to be able to "shred like Vai". It's quite another to be able to think, work, learn, interpret, incorporate, compose, execute, sound and perform like Vai.

That's why we're talking about Vai and not the countless anonymous shredders we all know who can string as many 64th notes together as Vai but who don't have his other numerous and far more important musical gifts.

guess who gets the sessions, no matter what kind of music it is?

Tommy Tedesco. Larry Carlton. Steve Lukather. Andy Timmons. And, yes, if he wants 'em, Steve Vai. Nobody's going to turn down Steve Vai if he calls up asking for a gig. His knowledge is extensive enough, his chops are extensive enough and he's universally respected as a pro's pro. He's not a flake, he's never done drugs and he gets along very well with people.

Thing is, well, the average Tommy Tedesco type session gig isn't going to pay enough or be musically challenging enough to interest a successful independent solo artist like Vai. He's got his own solo projects, G3 tours and the Favored Nations record label he founded to stoke his musical and business interests. In order to keep Pia and the kids out of the poorhouse (much less keep 'em rolling in the lap of luxury to which they long ago became accustomed) he simply doesn't need to do commercial jingles, tv scores and other such mundane session work.

Nobody has any doubt though that if he wanted to he could, and he'd be very successful at it.

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Mon Oct 23, 2006 11:47 pm

Screw all that crap. Can we get another long-winded retort about how Vai didn't do a "full" brushback of the mullet?

YD · Post by YD » Tue Oct 24, 2006 12:27 am

rack mgoo

bwaaahahaha! @ van

lmao

YD · Post by YD » Tue Oct 24, 2006 12:32 am

Van wrote:Nobody's going to turn down Steve Vai if he calls up asking for a gig.

bwhaaahahahah!

the first time I bwahahaa! ask for a session is the first time i stick a gun im ny mouf

smackaholic · Post by **smackaholic** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 12:56 am

vai has boat loads of talent. I'm sure he has all that other stuff that van goes on and on about. But, y'know what, I still don't like his sound. Maybe he can play EVH better than EVH can, but, that just makes him a really good cover artist. EVH is just better at creating shit, that most of us head banging cretins think sounds cool. But, that's prolly cause we ain't as smart and knowledgable as van.

Van · Post by **Van** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 1:27 am

B Smack wrote:
Need something more accessible?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1VjwciFLAg
Sounds like mid 70s Jeff Beck. This I can get down with.

Exactly, B. That was my reason for including it. That second clip is a lot easier to "hear". It's more accessible to the casual listener. The main melodic theme is more obvious.

The first clip, "For The Love Of God", is a lot more anthemic. It also would make a lot more sense to the average listener if the orchestra arrangement wasn't there. Normally Vai plays all those orchestral parts and then it's a lot easier to "hear" too. I included that one just for Dins and HH, since I know they'd both appreciate it if they hadn't seen it yet...

B, here's the "easier to listen to" original studio version, complete with a cheesy Hair Metal Era music video, one of the only solo project MTV style music videos Vai ever made. Excuse if you would the cheese and just listen to the melodic content and hey, the war and religion imagery is actual kinda cool too...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=s8rEn8mFWBw& ... ed&search=

Anyway, here's a couple that a Jeff Beck fan might like. The first one's something that's about as Jeff Beck melodish as it gets, sort of along the lines of JB's version of "People Get Ready" with Rod Stewart...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=DoxhaH6jTtQ& ... ed&search=

...and this one is more along the lines of Beck's "Flash" era funk stuff. Billy Sheehan kicks ass here too and pay attention to the black guy who comes out from playing the keyboards to double with Vai on one of the guitar solos. He's a rather, ummm, significant player himself. Vai being able to get that guy to be willing to play keys and back up guitar in a touring band says quite a bit about the level of pull Vai has within high end player circles...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=1kRW1u-814w

Anyway, B, love it or hate it I appreciate that you at least gave the shit a listen.

Van · Post by **Van** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 1:27 am

MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote:Screw all that crap. Can we get another long-winded retort about how Vai didn't do a "full" brushback of the mullet?

:twisted:

Van · Post by **Van** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 1:42 am

smackaholic wrote:vai has boat loads of talent. I'm sure he has all that other stuff that van goes on and on about.

LOL!!

But, y'know what, I still don't like his sound.

Fair enough, provided you've at least given him a real listen, including the stuff he's been doing for the past twenty years or so following his "hired gun" stints with DLR and Whitesnake.

Maybe he can play EVH better than EVH can, but, that just makes him a really good cover artist.

When he wants to be, yeah he is a great cover player. He's no cover artist though. Covers are not what he's known for among guitar players. He has a thirty plus year career going so far and only a couple of those years were spent in high profile rock bands where he was forced to play covers mixed in with his own original compositions. All his years with Frank Zappa and on his own as a solo artist creating his own unique brand of music, there's the vast majority of his career.

EVH is just better at creating shit, that most of us head banging cretins think sounds cool. But, that's prolly cause we ain't as smart and knowledgable as van.

I love EVH. I love his (DLR era) Van Halen tone. I love his rhythm chops. I'll go to my grave saying he's one of the three most influential and important rock guitarists of all time, and that he's a more "important" player than Vai. He's certainly more accessible to the masses, though a fuckuva lotta that had to do with DLR's showmanship too.

EVH wrote more popular Party Rock tunes, without a doubt. I'm not about to dismiss EVH just because he isn't Holdsworth or Vai. Thing is, most people dismiss Vai because of what they merely perceive him to be (and to not be), rather than what he actually is. That's where I have a problem with most people when they loudly spout their yaps off about Vai: their blatant ignorance.

Fat Bones · Post by **Fat Bones** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 1:46 am

What a ridiculous thread. He's eccentric sure, self indulgent, to be doubly so, but a master guitarist AND musician nonetheless. I can't say I can tolerate extensive forays into his note riddled overtures or watch his epileptic seizures onstage for long, but to deny his talent and abilities is just fucking stupid.

The stuff he yanks outta his guitar is amazing, original, melodic and innovative.

I'm just more of a Satch kinda guy.

T1B

For Van - Re: Steve Vai

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Re: For Van - Re: Steve Vai