So did it happen today?

[WolverineSteve]

Did the big Mexican work stoppage occur?

Did our society cease to exist as people predicted?

Did the lawns get cut?

Did the dishes get washed?

Did the garbage get collected?

Did the "White man" realize how bad off we'd be if they all bailed on us?

How did it go? Any Mexicans on here I'd like to hear your thoughts.

Who's selling the fruit dammit!! We need the fruit!! It's one of the basic food groups!! OOHH the horror!

[MuchoBulls]

I'm watching some of these people in the local area who protested today and some high school student said she would leave the country when the "whites and blacks start picking strawberries". Solid.

[Risa]

I'm watching some of these people in the local area who protested today and some high school student said she would leave the country when the "whites and blacks start picking strawberries". Solid.

whites and blacks are picking strawberries.
asians and native americans are too.

legal citizens are just protected by the law. legal
citizens don't have the same options to get paid
under the table. legal citizens have all manner of
deductions taken out that illegals don't. legal citizens
are not a net drain on the system.

i see no illegal immigrant amnesty marcher or student fighting for
fair wages, fighting for safe working conditions, fighting for Home
to be better than El Norte.

i do see gripes about (as one writer put it) the threat of the end
of the gravy train.

what were the numbers that were posted, about just how many
illegals are actually doing those crops? 15%?

I found the number extremely low, myself. Either the number
of illegals in this country, and those doing the working, are
being vastly UNDERcounted...

or there are games being played here.

if you want to tell her she's 'solid' for expecting her people
to work for less,
to work for no benefits,
to work while contributing to TWO systems that only
want them for their work (Mexico for the remittances
sent home, the US for the cheap labor),
to work under shitty OSHA would vomit work conditions
(the pesticide sickness and death issue among illegals is
real),

then you go ahead and tell her she's 'solid' Mucho, for
expecting less.

if you were black, you'd be the house slave wondering why
freedman and field negro alike were agitating for better, since
everything is so okie doke and 'solid' in the house. you still
have no rights, but since you have a little more relaxation than
the field ne.gro why not keep that shitty second/third class
status and be happy.

but whatever, muchos. go on with your slave-state supporting self.

[Risa]

Did the lawns get cut?

do your own damn lawn.

Did the dishes get washed?

do your own damn dishes.

Did the garbage get collected?

take out your own damn trash.



this just tickles me. i wonder where all these people
were when the Katrina/Rita survivors were being
lambasted as only looking for handouts.

I guess if you're poor you damn well better take care
of yourself.

If you're rich, however, it's your constitutional right
to pay the lowest wages to the illegal worker of your
choice.. because you'll be damned if you have
to take care of yourself.


Fuck the Democrats
Fuck the fake Republicans, too.

[Risa]

We baby boomers are going to need these low wage service folks to make our retirements affordable.

Nonsense. That's a shit argument. That measly $5 billion illegals put in every year is immediately used by those who are eligible for it today --

which includes those same illegals scamming the system for medicare, medicaid, food stamps, WIC, housing vouchers, etc. Today.

As mvscal put it earlier, they are a net LOSS on the system.

If you want to argue that the United States need the Latino baby boom in order to raise up enough workers to contribute to the system so that baby boomers can themselves abuse the social security system as a universal retirement program ....... something which the ss system was NOT set up to do, no matter what AARP tells you ..... well, why not go full gusto and BAN ABORTION.

You can have all the workers you want.

But wait.. you have to be able to pay those workers.

So how much is the social security contribution of someone being paid $5/hr for a $12/hr job..... versus the worker being paid $12? what is the contribution of the worker and of the employer?

As well, what happens to all those children and young adult children of legal citizens who can't get entry level jobs on legitimate social security numbers because illegal immigrants are not only holding those entry level jobs they are intentionally blocking anyone who doesn't have the right 'last name' from holding those jobs as well.....?


That money that could have been going to social security is not.

Where is it heading? because it sure as hell isn't in the illegals pocket, is it?

So we don't have to pick peaches and fry fries and do real work ...

A real job is one that pays real wages. If it's a job no one 'wants' to do, then you up the wages to find people who will do it.

Unless you're willing to break the sanitation workers union so that all those higher paying truck driving jobs that 'no one wants to do' but -- surprise!!! -- american legal citizens ARE doing them, can go to illegal immigrants for mere pennies on what is currently being paid (and to
the person who first brought this example to me, thank you).

So rack them, sort of.

Or rack them, in a Big way.

And rack the slave laborers chained in those sweatbox sweatshops in New York in the biggest way.

Rack China for turning Mexico's 'jobs that American's
wont do so bring them here' into 'jobs that Mexican's won't do
in Mexico, so send them overseas.

I guess you have to be the descendent of slaves,
to not want to EVER go back to such a system like
that ever again. I guess... except a lot of blacks
are pulling for the illegal immigrants, too.

I don't know if that's through a different reading
than what I'm reading of the situation, or of that
naive 'we are all brothers because we are all brown'
that gets exploited whenever a group (say, women,
or gays, or illegals) wants some added cachet.

[WolverineSteve]

The unopposed queen of the back-to-back posts strikes again. And as is the norm, promptly shits down her leg.

I don't cut my lawn. That's what I pay my American owned landscape company for. How much he slips under the table to his crew of Mexicans is his business.

I do my own dishes...at home. When I dine out the job falls to those employed to do so. In my neck of the woods, Mexican (not Mexican-Americans) folk have a corner on this market.

I do take out the trash. To the curb! You cannot be this dumb. You know those big trucks with the Mexicans hanging off the back ? Those are for collecting the garbage that I haul to the curb.

By the way dumbass...the so-called poor who suck off the government tit in our country are living far better than they would in most countries in the world.

Remember...poverty is a choice.

[Risa]

By the way dumbass...the so-called poor who suck off the government tit in our country are living far better than they would in most countries in the world.

Legal american citizens have paid into the system to ensure the welfare of legal american citizens.

The system is not set up to take on the added strain of 'everybody (everybody latino, well, everybody Mexican) who wants to come over can do so free of charge with no expectation of themselves or their goverments to pay into the system'

Remember...poverty is a choice.

Children don't choose to be born.


And if illegals are taking the jobs that used to go to American citizens who may have needed to take something in order to keep on their feet if unemployment wasn't there....

where do American citizens who have met the wall of 'the paycheck before destitution' go?

what services can be provided to those American citizens who just need a little help getting back on their felt, if those services are being drained by 'anybody who wants in can come in' illegal immigrants?


I blame Mexico. I also blame China, which has its own smuggling illegals into the states problems. I blame those middle easterners who come to the states to drop their own anchor babies so they can play the Mexican game too, sending American money to foreign countries with no expectation of contributing back to the society that provided the largess in the first place.

And I blame us, the US, for allowing this shit to occur in the first place.

[Risa]

A non-name blogger offers his opinon.
Read the message, not the message.

Can you counter him?

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-new ... omment?q=1

http://www.jimmyakin.org/

Can We Please Stop Using This Argument?
jimmyakin.org ^ | 206.04.10 | Jimmy Akin


Posted on 04/10/2006 6:45:04 PM PDT by B-Chan


Can We Please Stop Using This Argument?


People can rationally come to different conclusions on what should be done about the presence of millions of illegal aliens in the United States, but as that matter is debated, we should at least try to avoid some of the most obviously absurd arguments.

I therefore propose that we, as a nation, retire the "Illegal aliens take jobs Americans won't do/don't want" argument.

This is patent nonsense.

Anybody using this argument either has no grasp of economics or is being disingenuous due to the presence of an ulterior motive. (Them's yer two choices, so take yer pick, Mr. Bush.)

To see the absurdity of this argument, let's cast it in its starkest form: Food.

Before we do that, though, let me issue

THE BIG RED DISCLAIMER: The following treatment has nothing to do with ethnicity. It has to do with economics. In what follows I will talk about two groups of people--illegal aliens (whatever their ethnicity) and Americans (whatever their ethnicity). The fact that most (but by no means all) of the illegal aliens in this country are Latino in origin is irrelevant to the economic principles involved, as is the fact that many Americans are also of Latino origin. If you need to, swap the terms "America" and "Americans" for those of a random country somewhere else on the planet. The economic principles apply no matter where you are.

Now . . .

It is often noted that illegal aliens play a large role in the construction, landscaping, and domestic service industries, but nice buildings, nice landscapes, and nice domestic services are luxuries. Our most pressing survival-related need is for food, and so the "Jobs Americans won't do" argument can be cast most starkly if we look at the role of illegal aliens in the agricultural industry.

Suppose that all of the illegal aliens working in the agricultural industry decided to quit their jobs. What would happen to the U.S.?

Will we be seeing headlines in the New York Times like this one? . . .


Food Rots In Fields As The Nation Starves!!!

Of course not.
Americans are not going to starve themselves to death because they "won't do" the job of harvesting the food.

Americans have been harvesting food ever since there have been Americans (otherwise they would have all starved long ago), so they are certainly capable of it.

Why, then, are so many illegal aliens taking the place of Americans in the agricultural industry?

Because they come from a different economic background and are willing to do the jobs for less.

The effect of illegal aliens in the agricultural industry is not that they do work that otherwise wouldn't get done. It's that they depress the wages in the agricultural industry to the point that such jobs are unattractive to Americans.

It's that whole supply-and-demand thing.

When you've got a greater supply of something than you have demand for it, the price will go down. If manufacturers make loads of DVD players and start to outstrip the demand for DVD players then the price of DVD players will go down as part of competition for customers.

Same thing happens in labor markets.

If the supply of agricultural workers outstrips the demand for agricultural workers then the wages attached to such jobs will go down as part of competition for employment. When the wages are depressed past a certain point, some of the workers will say, "Y'know, I could do better in a different industry" and they decide at that point that they "won't do" the agricultural jobs at the depressed wages being offered for those jobs.

But what happens if the labor pool shrinks? What happens if all the illegal aliens decide to quit?

When the supply of agricultural workers shrinks so that it no longer outstrips the demand for agricultural workers and employers start raising wages in order to attract the workers they need, and the work gets done.

Trust me, Americans are not going to starve themselves to death if they have no illegal aliens to harvest food.

What will happen instead is that the wages offered for such jobs will rise, Americans will start valuing such jobs more as a result (instead of looking down on them), and they will start doing them. The food will get harvested, and when it is sold to the public the added labor costs will be passed on to consumers in the form of a modest increase in food prices.

But there will be no massive wave of starvation in the U.S.

Something similar applies to the jobs in other industries that currently have high levels of involvement by illegal aliens. If the supply-and-demand situations of those industries were readjusted then Americans would be attracted to jobs in them as well, and the work would still get done. People might economize in some areas (e.g., taking care of the kids yourself instead of hiring an illegal alien to serve as a nanny), but we won't see headlines like:


American Buildings Rot Due To Lack Of Construction Workers!!!

Landscaping Crisis Dwarfs Hurricane Katrina!!!

Absence Of Domestic Services Causes American Family To Fall Apart!!!

People who want to maintain the status quo on illegal immigration--or who want to legalize the status quo via amnesties and guest worker programs--may still argue for these on other grounds (e.g., that there is an overall positive economic impact from having millions of low-paid foreign workers in the U.S. or that it's a practical impossibility to remove them all), but whatever you want to see done about illegal immigration, you'll need to argue it on grounds other than the "Jobs Americans won't do" notion.
That one's a non-starter, Mr. President.

***

P.S. BTW, Mr. President, do you realize how arrogant and insulting you are being when you use the "Jobs Americans won't do" argument?

This argument can be parsed one of two ways: (1) "Such jobs are beneath us as Americans, so we need to import foreigners to do these lowly tasks for us" or (2) "I preside over a nation of such hopelessly spoiled brats that we need to just cave in to their juvenile refusal to do such jobs."

The first is arrogant and insulting to people from other countries. The second is arrogant and insulting to Americans.

Since it can be parsed both ways, the argument is arrogant and insulting no matter what your nationality.

nah. too calm and reasonable to be mvscal.
i also don't think the mexican missouran would
be caught dead wearing kokopeli on his chest.

[Cicero]

Cant we just force out everyone who isnt white???

[M2]

Cant we just force out everyone who isnt white???

If we started out with the gay and retarded, you would have a hell of a time posting here.

Think about it, and get back to me.



m2

[Screw_Michigan]

this thread, minus mb and ws, is like shooting fish in a fucking barrell. what a fucking disgrace.

[Terry in Crapchester]

legal citizens don't have the same options to get paid
under the table. legal citizens have all manner of deductions taken out that illegals don't. legal citizens are not a net drain on the system.

Don't be so sure about that. The number of U.S. citizens I have encountered in my lifetime who work off the books is nothing short of alarming. And I have no doubt that I haven't even begun to scratch the surface in that regard.

[Degenerate]

A non-name blogger offers his opinon.
Read the message, not the message.

Damn, baby, you just blew my mind.

[Raydah James]

Cant we just force out everyone who isnt white???

If we started out with the gay and retarded, you would have a hell of a time posting here.

Think about it, and get back to me.



m2

Fucking hilarious that this would come from an ass commando who specializes in combat rolls to sheath meatswords before taking a shotgun blast of jizz to his San Francisco grille.


Pot knobbing Kettle's dick much?



Shut your fucking polewarmer, Tard.

[Terry in Crapchester]

Cant we just force out everyone who isnt white???

Did you give your password to mvscal?

[MuchoBulls]

I'm watching some of these people in the local area who protested today and some high school student said she would leave the country when the "whites and blacks start picking strawberries". Solid.

whites and blacks are picking strawberries.
asians and native americans are too.

legal citizens are just protected by the law. legal
citizens don't have the same options to get paid
under the table. legal citizens have all manner of
deductions taken out that illegals don't. legal citizens
are not a net drain on the system.

i see no illegal immigrant amnesty marcher or student fighting for
fair wages, fighting for safe working conditions, fighting for Home
to be better than El Norte.

i do see gripes about (as one writer put it) the threat of the end
of the gravy train.

what were the numbers that were posted, about just how many
illegals are actually doing those crops? 15%?

I found the number extremely low, myself. Either the number
of illegals in this country, and those doing the working, are
being vastly UNDERcounted...

or there are games being played here.

if you want to tell her she's 'solid' for expecting her people
to work for less,
to work for no benefits,
to work while contributing to TWO systems that only
want them for their work (Mexico for the remittances
sent home, the US for the cheap labor),
to work under shitty OSHA would vomit work conditions
(the pesticide sickness and death issue among illegals is
real),

then you go ahead and tell her she's 'solid' Mucho, for
expecting less.

if you were black, you'd be the house slave wondering why
freedman and field negro alike were agitating for better, since
everything is so okie doke and 'solid' in the house. you still
have no rights, but since you have a little more relaxation than
the field ne.gro why not keep that shitty second/third class
status and be happy.

but whatever, muchos. go on with your slave-state supporting self.

I was saying solid for her quote. I don't support any illegal worker in this country. If they become legal citizens of this country, then I have no problem.

Thanks for your amusing post. It was better than her quote.

[jtr]

All the immigrants protesting, waving the mexican flag should go back down to the country they came from and take it back, reconstruct is as USA South.