T1B

Sudden Sam wrote: I know too many girls who did it repeatedly.

Anecdotal evidence, outstanding.

Kavanaugh fans scream, throw panties

Ewww!

Sincerely,
Kavanaugh, Duhron

Screw_Michigan wrote:Do you have any first person examples of abortion being used as a form of birth control?

Abortion is by definition birth control. It is done to control (abort) a birth.

The hearings should be closed to the public. Allow news reporters, government staff, and cameras only. Broadcast on TV so it's all transparent. The interruptions don't serve any useful purpose at all. Who's going to be harmed by doing it this way? No one.

Screw_Michigan wrote:Do you have any first person examples of abortion being used as a form of birth control?

I know of three women who have had abortions. Two very close friends and a family member. All three were a form of birth control. They weren't on the pill, didn't use condoms and got pregnant. What's your point?

Screw_Michigan wrote:

Killian wrote: Honest question: What is the worst thing that could happen if Kavanaugh is confirmed and the court takes on a conservative majority (assuming he isn't the swing vote that Kennedy was)?

Imperial presidency. Overturn Roe v Wade. Further destruction of worker rights and labor rights.

Did I get them all?

What would be so awful about overturning Roe vs Wade? Not that that is likely to happen. But apparently being prudently careful to not get pregnant is beyond people's abilities, therefore the child must die.
How about this-- we let the states decide. Instead of discovering a heretofore undiscovered constitutional right apparently written into our founding document with ink made from lemon juice, we properly have our citizenry debate the issue and vote on it.

Screw_Michigan wrote:Not only is he a vile piece of shit who thinks the president is above the law, he just got busted multiple times lying under oath. No wonder the GOP has held back all those documents from the Dems.

https://www.c-span.org/video/?449705-10 ... y-2-part-2

Of course he'll still be confirmed because the GOP is amoral, just like Trump.

Wrong.
https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/09/ ... democrats/
As French writes, this utterly demolishes the Left's perjury accusations. But hey, don't let that stop you from apeing Progressive talking points.

Kavanaugh fans scream, throw panties






Well, at least we know what AP's up to these days.

Rooster wrote:How about this-- we let the states decide. Instead of discovering a heretofore undiscovered constitutional right apparently written into our founding document with ink made from lemon juice, we properly have our citizenry debate the issue and vote on it.

I've got a better idea. Why don't we just leave things the way they are and say to ourselves, "We're never all going to agree on this, but we can agree that this is a free country. And as a free country, maybe it should just be a place where people decide this issue not at the federal level, nor at the state level, but for themselves as individuals." If this country is truly free, why are we all working so hard to make each other conform to our own personal codes. If you don't believe in abortion, then don't get one. And if you don't like the way others are behaving, then consider that to be the price you pay for living in a free country.

ML@Coyote wrote:I've got a better idea. Why don't we just leave things the way they are and say to ourselves, "We're never all going to agree on this, but we can agree that this is a free country. And as a free country, maybe it should just be a place where people decide this issue not at the federal level, nor at the state level, but for themselves as individuals." If this country is truly free, why are we all working so hard to make each other conform to our own personal codes. If you don't believe in abortion, then don't get one. And if you don't like the way others are behaving, then consider that to be the price you pay for living in a free country.

Bingo. As usual, ML stands as a voice of reason.

Personally, I have always held that there are exceptions to most any given rule and abortion is one of them. Abortion is the taking of a life, but there are circumstances that should allow for that "choice", rape being one of them. I will never advocate for abortion, however extreme circumstances can call for extreme measures. As ML said, it is a free country. Or at least, in theory, it is. This isn't a left or right issue, it is a life issue.

The only choice here, is to think. Most of us simply react. Now that is a bad choice.

ML wrote:I've got a better idea. Why don't we just leave things the way they are and say to ourselves, "We're never all going to agree on this, but we can agree that this is a free country. And as a free country, maybe it should just be a place where people decide this issue not at the federal level, nor at the state level, but for themselves as individuals."

I don't know if I have ever read a dumber take.

What if a free individual decides that the best course of action is to blow his neighbor's head off?

That was the free individual decision.


A fetus is helpless and ought to be protected from deranged mayhem.
Human history has consistently shown that individuals canNOT be counted on to make good decisions.
Laws must be in place to protect life.

50 million "individual decisions" to terminate helpless life??

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_ ... ted_States



Get the hell out of here.

Just about everyone agrees it's wrong to kill your neighbor.

Softball Bat wrote: Human history has consistently shown that individuals canNOT be counted on to make good decisions.

Truer words have never been spoken.

Of course, human history has also consistently shown that governments cannot be counted on to make good decisions.

(insert picture here)

Yeah, like the decision to allow its citizenry to exterminate 50 million people.

Talk about wiping out your tax base.

Great idea.

Softball Bat wrote: I don't know if I have ever read a dumber take.

But you sure have pounded out a few hundred in your day

Human history has consistently shown that individuals canNOT be counted on to make good decisions.

Again you support that with your flat earth bullshit.

- Derron

Jay in Phoenix wrote:

ML@Coyote wrote:I've got a better idea. Why don't we just leave things the way they are and say to ourselves, "We're never all going to agree on this, but we can agree that this is a free country. And as a free country, maybe it should just be a place where people decide this issue not at the federal level, nor at the state level, but for themselves as individuals." If this country is truly free, why are we all working so hard to make each other conform to our own personal codes. If you don't believe in abortion, then don't get one. And if you don't like the way others are behaving, then consider that to be the price you pay for living in a free country.

Bingo. As usual, ML stands as a voice of reason.

Personally, I have always held that there are exceptions to most any given rule and abortion is one of them. Abortion is the taking of a life, but there are circumstances that should allow for that "choice", rape being one of them. I will never advocate for abortion, however extreme circumstances can call for extreme measures. As ML said, it is a free country. Or at least, in theory, it is. This isn't a left or right issue, it is a life issue.

The only choice here, is to think. Most of us simply react. Now that is a bad choice.

For the sake of argument, let’s just say that abortion in the instances of rape is acceptable. Considering that the number of pregnancies that are terminated due to rape are miniscule when compared to the vast majority which are simply a form of convenience for a couple who didn’t count the financial, emotional, physical, and psychological cost prior to engaging in risky sexual behavior, then we could a reasonable debate about this. As it stands, abortions are most often an easy way out of a situation which is self induced.

Softball Bat wrote:Yeah, like the decision to allow its citizenry to exterminate 50 million people.

Yeah, now you're catching on. It's the law of the land you were so gung-ho about praising in your previous post.

Softball Bat wrote:Talk about wiping out your tax base. Great idea.

Tax base? Is that really what concerns you? I doubt it. I don't think you meant to say that.

Listen, I believe that you truly think you're right about abortion being murder, and I'm not saying that I disagree with this. But there are a LOT of people in this country who disagree with your interpretation of what's taking place. And who's to say who is right and who is wrong? You? Heck, you don't even like Burt Reynolds so why should anyone have to do what you say?

ML wrote:And who's to say who is right and who is wrong?

You advocate "Just do it if you want to."

You advocate for allowing 50 million completely innocent and helpless lives to be taken -- and tens of millions more into the future...

You advocate for wiping out what would be a huge chunk of the country's tax base.


It is easy to see who is right.

That lack of discernment about the morality of abortions when taken a few steps further results in euthanasia, eugenics, and eventually genocide. If there is ever a class of people who should have the corporate body of citizenry stand up for them in their weakness, it would be the weakest of them all— unborn children.

Softball Bat wrote:You advocate "Just do it if you want to."

No, that's not exactly what I said. I said to act according to your conscience and allow others to do the same under the law.

Softball Bat wrote:You advocate for wiping out what would be a huge chunk of the country's tax base.

What is this weird obsession you have with the tax base?

Rooster wrote:That lack of discernment about the morality of abortions when taken a few steps further results in euthanasia, eugenics, and eventually genocide. If there is ever a class of people who should have the corporate body of citizenry stand up for them in their weakness, it would be the weakest of them all— unborn children.

It's conjecture, of course, but I don't see abortions leading to euthanasia, eugenics, or genocide and more than I see weed leading to heroin addiction. As for standing up for unborn children, I think the problem is that people have different ideas as to when a child is a child. I don't think people who believe in abortion believe they are aborting actual children. I'm not saying I agree with them, but I'm telling you what they think. And I believe there are many times in a free society when people have to learn to put up with each other, even when they strongly disagree.

ML wrote:What is this weird obsession you have with the tax base?

It isn't an obsession.
It is simply a fact.

It goes right along with systematically slaughtering 50 million people.

A country has to be majorly fugged up to think that engaging in the mass slaughter of its own people is a good (or even acceptable) thing.

So, your idea for improving this country's tax problems is to add another 50 million unwanted children to its population?

Do you imagine that prior to Roe v. Wade there were not... "unwanted" children?

There have always been unwanted children.

Sad fact of life.

I suppose you have a point to make?

ML wrote:So, your idea for improving this country's tax problems...

I proposed no idea for improving the country's tax problems.

I stated that YOUR proposal (individual freedom to snuff out life) has eliminated a huge chunk of what should be the tax base.
50 million tax payers -----> gone.

More than 50 million, actually.


Prior to Roe v. Wade there were unwanted children.
People still brought them into the world.

Were these "unwanted" children worthless drags on society?
They were non-tax-payers?


The U.S. has fostered a self-destructive culture.
A culture of death and irresponsibility.

This is immoral, ugly, pathetic, and stupid.

It should obviously be reversed.

I've got a great idea. I think you'll like this. It's for a nationwide campaign to solve all our tax problems.

We start with posters. We plaster them everywhere:

Uncle Sam Needs You!
Dumb women unite!

Fuck irresponsibly,
Have more babies.

Then we hit the radio airwaves with 30 second spots.

(America the Beautiful plays in the background)
Woman 1: This is awful.
Woman 2: What's the matter?
Woman 1: I just found out I'm pregnant. What am I going to do?
Woman 2: How'd you get pregnant?
Woman 1: I don't know. I didn't think it could happen to me!
Woman 2: I know exactly what you should do.
Woman 1: Get an abortion?
Woman 2: No, no, no. Uncle Sam needs you.
Woman 1: He needs me? What does he need me for?
Woman 2: He needs your baby.
Woman 1: My baby?
Woman 2: For the tax base. It's your duty.
Woman 1: Ah, the tax base. Why didn't I think of that?
Woman 2: Because you're an idiot.
Woman 1: You're calling me an idiot?
Woman 2: You're pregnant, aren't you?
Woman 1: You got me there, ha, ha.
Woman 2: For the tax base!
Woman 1: For the tax base!

Then we run a TV commercial. Rah, rah, rah:

Narrator: Are you really stupid and a little bit pregnant?



Narrator: Thinking of getting an abortion?



Narrator: Hold it right there! America needs your baby.



Narrator: Your baby means thousands in precious tax dollars.



Narrator: Yes, it's really that simple. A healthy baby means a healthy economy.



Narrator: Let's all fuck like crazy and make America great again!

Yes, dude, I can get into this.
I think we're onto something here.
I don't know why I didn't think of this before!
Thanks for setting me straight.

ML@Coyote wrote:

Rooster wrote:That lack of discernment about the morality of abortions when taken a few steps further results in euthanasia, eugenics, and eventually genocide. If there is ever a class of people who should have the corporate body of citizenry stand up for them in their weakness, it would be the weakest of them all— unborn children.

It's conjecture, of course, but I don't see abortions leading to euthanasia, eugenics, or genocide and more than I see weed leading to heroin addiction. As for standing up for unborn children, I think the problem is that people have different ideas as to when a child is a child. I don't think people who believe in abortion believe they are aborting actual children. I'm not saying I agree with them, but I'm telling you what they think. And I believe there are many times in a free society when people have to learn to put up with each other, even when they strongly disagree.

However, it’s not conjecture that euthanasia and eugenics have occurred, the only question is are they directly connected to abortion? My answer to that is I don’t know, but the lack of appreciation for life connects them all. The genocide I mentioned touches on those 50-some million children who have been destroyed before they ever were born. You put your finger on it when you wrote that people who support abortion do not think the act kills an actual child. This is nonsense of course, because what else could it be? A puppy? A kitten? I understand what you were getting at— the personhood of a human, the essence of what makes a child a member of society that bestows on them all the rights and privileges of a living, breathing person.

But that act of separating people from not-really-people is precisely what everyone from all walks of life and the broad spectrum of beliefs recognizes is different about the United States in that we have deliberately chosen to see people as people, not chattel, not property, not lesser beings who don’t count in society. Slaves were made free. That wasn’t enough, because we then had to purposefully include them as full members of society so that their voices were recognized as being equal to others, not just 2/3rds of a person. We deliberately recognized women and changed the rules so that they too could be full members of society. Yet these same people— and everyone else involved in the industry of killing children —blindly accept their elevated position in the corporate body, but choose to deny those same rights to an entire segment of humanity only because of their helplessness. They can’t speak, they are hidden from view, and they undeniably are, to some extent, a burden to the woman bearing them. Therefore it is open season on these people.

In any other context this would be seen as a grave injustice, but because it is inextricably intertwined with reproductive rights, the real losers in this battle are children.

Furthermore, it’s simply illogical to not recognize unborn children as humans. Scientifically, babies are just as human as you and me. We simply have placed an artificial construct around the concept of what makes a person a person and determined via the courts that prior to a specific time unrelated to any particular aspect of their personhood, that they can be exterminated without punishment or shame— indeed, the act of killing your own child is celebrated in some circles, as if they were a sacrifice to Molech and now we can be assured of a good year of crops, only in this case a productive life unencumbered by a baby.

Sen. Feinstein postulated that a mother could and should be able to abort her child up to the point of bringing them home from the hospital. Elderly are euthanized because they are a drag on their families and society. Down syndrome children are talked about as having no value, therefore should be killed off to save resources. Blacks were sterilized to prevent them from being a burden to society. On and on it goes.

The real issue isn’t abortion per se, it is the lack of appreciation for life, an assumption that you are doing both yourself and the baby a favor by killing it because life is going to be too hard for them and you. It makes you God, deciding who lives and who dies, who receives what and in what quantities, and it is an act of such hubris as to be unconscionable in any other context, be that political, religious, or economic. We simply wouldn’t stand for the wholesale genocide of people with the exception of unborn children.

Now I see your caveat, wherein you do not necessarily claim to support abortion yourself, but are explaining how others view it— and I appreciate that. I have attempted to refute those ideas by explaining that the natural inclination of mankind is to see others as lesser beings, thus less deserving of whatever life has to offer them. Western civilization is based on the sanctity of life— not that we always live up to that ideal, far from it! —but it is the philosophical bedrock of why we eschew slavery, why we don’t leave brother soldiers on the battlefield, why we attempt to keep a person alive at a car wreck even when it is apparent that they are going to die in moments. Life has intrinsic value, whether we recognize it, appreciate it, or even understand it.

Softball Bat wrote:Yeah, like the decision to allow its citizenry to exterminate 50 million people.

Talk about wiping out your tax base.

Great idea.

To me, this comes dangerously close to seeing children strictly in economic terms. It is the mirror image of pro-abortionists’ attitude of viewing a family member only in how it impacts us in dollars and cents.

Softball Bat wrote:
I stated that YOUR proposal (individual freedom to snuff out life) has eliminated a huge chunk of what should be the tax base.
50 million tax payers -----> gone

Because EVERY person is a taxpayer right ?? You fucking idiot.

Abortions are disproportionally higher in the black community.

Great post, Rooster. IMO you've hit the nail on the head. Unfortunately, this view is not shared by the majority of people in this country. As of this year, only 28% of Americans think RvW ought to be overturned. And it also remains true that for many women, the immediate pleasure of letting men fuck them outweighs the responsibility the feel toward the babies that result from the act. In a perfect world, sex and the creation of life would be two separate things. But they are not.

My son is a vegan, and has been one for years. All life is important to him, and he tells me 56 billion animals are killed every year for human consumption. He thinks I'm a barbarian for eating steak and hamburgers and pork chops and fried chicken. He has very strong feelings about killing animals. When he visits us, we have to cook special food for him, and we can only go out to certain restaurants. So, is he crazy? And are we crazy to put up with this?

I've come to the conclusion that we all have our own way of perceiving life. For the most part everyone agrees. But there are things we don't agree on. Abortion is one of them. So are capital punishment, and war, and euthanasia. I think this is why we have a democracy, to let the people chose the path we should all follow. Of course, there are going to be many who disagree with the path chosen. But this is the best system we have. And we should accept it as such.

In the meantime, there is nothing wrong with reaching out to others and letting them know how you feel. It's a free country, and obviously there is freedom of speech. And words and pictures are powerful things. Who knows, in ten, fifty, a hundred years from now, people might start to see the light.

Derron wrote:Because EVERY person is a taxpayer right ?? You fucking idiot.

Virtually 100%, yes.




#idiot

From 88's article...

All other things staying constant, making abortions harder to access and more expensive will only make the world a poorer, more crime-ridden and welfare-dependent place.

A total crock of shit.


Was the U.S. more rich or poor prior to Roe v. Wade?
The National debt stands at over 21 trillion dollars.

Was it more or less crime ridden?

Was it more or less welfare dependent?


The country has wiped out 50 million tax payers.
More than that, actually, when you think of the reproduction of that 50 million people.

Blatant stupidity and immorality.

Softball Bat wrote: Was the U.S. more rich or poor prior to Roe v. Wade?
The National debt stands at over 21 trillion dollars.

The national debt is the result of Roe v Wade?

Are you incapable of following basic dialogue?

link wrote:making abortions harder to access and more expensive will only make the world a poorer...

We weren't even 1 trillion dollars in debt in 1973, when Roe v. Wade passed.

You've got your abortions, and yet now we are 21 trillion in debt.


Making abortions harder to access will make us poorer?

LMAO!



#nope

Before Roe vs Wade passed, I had to go to the local library to look up everything.

Now the information is at my fingertips.

Thank you, Roe v Wade.

Before Roe v Wade, I had a full head of hair and wasn't on BP meds.

Fukk you RvW!!!!

Yeah, I was 10, but still.....