replacement refs

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Ken
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Re: replacement refs

Post by Ken »

BSmack wrote:For starters, unless Joe spends most of his working time in something called a peloton, I'm calling bs on his 30 mph claim. Reality says he was traveling closer to 20.
Way to move the goalposts after the fact. We were given the variable 30mph, not 20. It’s what we’ve got to work with and what your asinine comparison was based upon.
Second, he and the other rider were likely decelerating at the moment of impact. So the speed was likely under 15 mph.
Now, as if moving the goalposts wasn’t stupefying enough before, it gets worse. Let’s just lift ‘em out of the ground and dump ‘em in the parking lot.
BUT, I’ll play along with this one anyways. Joe says he was traveling 30mph to which you said was more likely 15mph, seeing as how you were there to witness it :rolleyes:. Quite the leap there, eh, Bri? Now, I don’t wanna go completely downs syndrome on this and agree with 15mph, so let’s kinda meet in the middle and go with 24mph. OK with that? Good.

Now, let’s not forget that the other rider is traveling at a rate of speed also. I said a reasonable assumption would be 15mph. To save you the trouble of saying that rider most likely wasn’t going that fast either (again, seeing as how you were there to witness it), I’ll go with 10mph. That’s a 34mph impact.

Plug those amended variables into the equation and the impact Joe suffered is STILL more than TWICE (almost 2.5X) the force than what Massoquoi did.
Third, do you seriously for one second believe that Joe would have been worse off wearing a football helmet?
Not sure how this is remotely relevant to anything. Keep your head in the game, sparky. Actually, just bail out… you’re drowning with no way out on this one.
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Re: replacement refs

Post by Go Coogs' »

ChargerMike wrote:The most obvious are the pic plays the WR are running on the DBs - they would make Stockton and Malone proud

bwa..rack
I noticed that in several games yesterday on replays. Illegal picks on the LoS all over the place. Guess the WRs noticed the refs weren't throwing the laundry on that play in preseason. Wonder if the refs are spending the week looking at film and will start calling it.
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Re: replacement refs

Post by Joe in PB »

Ken gets it.

I was traveling down a single track at slight down grade at probably close to 20 mph, went around a blind turn and ran into a rider going slightly uphill at probably 10 mph. I did try to turn & miss but was unsuccessful. My guess is the impact was probably 20+ mph. My head hitting the forward down bar of his bike. My helmet crushed in, or collapsed, but not to where his bike impacted my head. Guaranteed I would have had a major concussion or worst if I were helmet-less. Hence my idea of something similar, except like a combat helmet, with an inner shell, and a throw away outer shell that gives. Absorbing some of the impact to the skull during contact, and reducing the amount of concussions.

Head to head contact happens, no matter if its a street tackle game or the NFL. Perfect form tackling sounds great in theory, but in reality, can't always be applied.
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Re: replacement refs

Post by ChargerMike »

Joe in PB wrote:Ken gets it.

I was traveling down a single track at slight down grade at probably close to 20 mph, went around a blind turn and ran into a rider going slightly uphill at probably 10 mph. I did try to turn & miss but was unsuccessful. My guess is the impact was probably 20+ mph. My head hitting the forward down bar of his bike. My helmet crushed in, or collapsed, but not to where his bike impacted my head. Guaranteed I would have had a major concussion or worst if I were helmet-less. Hence my idea of something similar, except like a combat helmet, with an inner shell, and a throw away outer shell that gives. Absorbing some of the impact to the skull during contact, and reducing the amount of concussions.

Head to head contact happens, no matter if its a street tackle game or the NFL. Perfect form tackling sounds great in theory, but in reality, can't always be applied.

I just don't know how anyone can ride those mountain bikes! just flat out too dangerous.
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Re: replacement refs

Post by Felix »

MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote:It's going to be brutal. These azzhats were taking punts stopped at the 6 yard line and calling touchbacks. They are completely clueless.

yeah I saw at least 3 calls (or non-calls) in the Denver/Pitt game that were obvious miscues.....officiating mistakes are all "part of the game" until somebody blows a really important call at which time the conservation will then take on a "how fucking stupid are you going to be goodell" tone to it......as close as I can figure, the increase their asking for would equate to an additional $400/official/game

it's going to take somebody getting seriously jacked up in a game before the NFL honks figure out replacement refs really ain't that great of an idea
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Re: replacement refs

Post by mvscal »

Felix wrote:officiating mistakes are all "part of the game" until somebody blows a really important call
Thank goodness that never happens with "real" officials....oh, wait. Nevermind.

The officials lost a shitload of leverage this week. The week came and went and nobody gave a fuck about them and nobody should.
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Re: replacement refs

Post by Joe in PB »

mvscal wrote:
Felix wrote:officiating mistakes are all "part of the game" until somebody blows a really important call
Thank goodness that never happens with "real" officials....oh, wait. Nevermind.

The officials lost a shitload of leverage this week. The week came and went and nobody gave a fuck about them and nobody should.
Agreed, they stunk it up just as much. As a matter of fact I prefer these refs over the old ones who tended to throw flags just because a hit was hard. Its a damn shame when the college game at times is more physical than the NFL.
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Re: replacement refs

Post by Paul »

mvscal wrote:
Felix wrote:officiating mistakes are all "part of the game" until somebody blows a really important call
Thank goodness that never happens with "real" officials....oh, wait. Nevermind.

The officials lost a shitload of leverage this week. The week came and went and nobody gave a fuck about them and nobody should.
Wow...for once I actually agree with this shitstain.
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Re: replacement refs

Post by jiminphilly »

For those of you who think the replacement refs are doing no worse (and certainly no better) than the lock-out regulars, I invite you to watch the Eagles/Ravens game from this past weekend and tell me that (at least the group working that game) has any business working an NFL game. It was simply awful.

For starters, the game dragged on for over 3 1/2 hours - and it didn't go to OT. Forget the missed calls and the subsequent make-up calls. If a game is running that long because the officials don't know how to spot a ball following a penalty, than how in the fuck do you have any faith that they know what constitutes a hold, illegal contact etc.. (and they're the easy calls, forget illegal shifts, offensive picks which aren't as easy to spot to the untrained eye.

But don't take my word for it:

"
The challenge for us is figuring out what constitutes what," Harbaugh said. "What constitutes illegal contact and pass interference and I am not really sure."
Harbaugh said he observed chaos on the field and admitted that the officiating played a part in it. Asked if he wanted to elaborate on the officiating chaos, he politely declined.
"Not that I am allowed to say," Harbaugh said.
There were two two-minute warnings in the second half. Reid said he received a reasonable explanation, but the crowd never did. The time of game was more than 31/2 hours and that's because the officials had so many problems spotting the football and interpreting the rules. At one point, the officials spotted the ball in three different places before they finally got it right.
Read more: http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/eag ... z26jbAqXXH
The chaos on the field was that a fight was breaking out after every 2-3 plays in the first half, mostly because both teams were taking cheap shots on the other knowing there was very little repercussion. Offsetting penalties is a passive aggressive way of saying we're afraid of you and so we'll just pacify both teams.

Is someone going to get hurt from this? Possibly and not because of some exposed receiver taking a hit to the head. It's going to come an illegal chop block and a torn ACL because until the replacement refs
A. Figure out what an illegal chop block is
B. Have the balls to call it

than nothing is going to stop an offensive linemen from playing even more dirty if he knows he's going to get away with it.
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Re: replacement refs

Post by Screw_Michigan »

I saw the entire game too, Jim. Absolutely disgraceful. Any idiot like the one posting here saying nobody will miss the legitimate refs is a fucking idiot and needs to pull his head from his has.

The Skins/Rams game was an officiating abortion, too.
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Re: replacement refs

Post by Felix »

mvscal wrote:
Felix wrote:officiating mistakes are all "part of the game" until somebody blows a really important call
Thank goodness that never happens with "real" officials....oh, wait. Nevermind.

of course real officials miss calls, it happens quite often....when your at field level it's a lot more difficult to spot those things that are obvious to those of us that enjoy the view we have, it's much different at playing field level.....but the replacement refs are a fucking disaster.....they miss so many calls it's becoming an embarassment
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Re: replacement refs

Post by mvscal »

jiminphilly wrote:Is someone going to get hurt from this? Possibly and not because of some exposed receiver taking a hit to the head. It's going to come an illegal chop block and a torn ACL because until the replacement refs

A. Figure out what an illegal chop block is
B. Have the balls to call it
So what if they do call it? The player would still be injured and your point would still be total horseshit.

Oh, for the record, I have seen illegal chop blocks called by replacement refs the past couple weeks. I've also seen regular officials miss calls. It just wasn't national news every time it happened nor is confusion vis a vis pass interference and illegal contact anything new and a game that runs fifteen minutes longer than usual because newbies were trying to get things right is hardly a "disaster."

The new refs are fine and they'll get better and nobody will give a fuck about "real" refs except for those in the media who will continue to suck their cocks for whatever bizarre reason. I have to wonder if these refs were being used by sports writers for many of their "un-named sources close to the game."
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Re: replacement refs

Post by jiminphilly »

mvscal wrote:
jiminphilly wrote:Is someone going to get hurt from this? Possibly and not because of some exposed receiver taking a hit to the head. It's going to come an illegal chop block and a torn ACL because until the replacement refs

A. Figure out what an illegal chop block is
B. Have the balls to call it
So what if they do call it? The player would still be injured and your point would still be total horseshit.


Oh, for the record, I have seen illegal chop blocks called by replacement refs the past couple weeks. I've also seen regular officials miss calls. It just wasn't national news every time it happened nor is confusion vis a vis pass interference and illegal contact anything new and a game that runs fifteen minutes longer than usual because newbies were trying to get things right is hardly a "disaster."

The new refs are fine and they'll get better and nobody will give a fuck about "real" refs except for those in the media who will continue to suck their cocks for whatever bizarre reason. I have to wonder if these refs were being used by sports writers for many of their "un-named sources close to the game."
So in other words you have nothing. Players are admitting to taking advantage of these replacement guys because they know they don't know what to look for with holding and interference penalties. How bad do you think things are right now when a replay of a textbook hold has to be shown 10x to positively reinforce the retarded zebras can spot a fucking hold. In the course of a game a penalty is shown 1 or 2 times and things move on. But these morons can't even mark off 10 yards nor understand when to mark from the line of scrimmage and when to mark from the spot of the foul. Their experience level isn't growing, just their ineptitude. And when players know they can get away with borderline illegal hits and blocks, they'll do it more if it gives them advantage and when that happens, someone is going to get hurt.

You're in the minority on this one. It's not just the media pushing this. Seriously, there are bound to be "highlights" of just how badly officiated the Eagles/Ravens game was and not because a blatant penalty (or lack of), a fumble, that wasn't a fumble, that was a fumble, that wasn't. 2 - 2 minute mornings in the second half and boundless other miscues.

And this wasn't a game running 15 minutes longer (actually it was closer to 30) simply because of the way the offensives were executing thus having a slower game clock. Not even close. These ass-clowns had a convention on nearly every call and still couldn't get it right.
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Re: replacement refs

Post by mvscal »

jiminphilly wrote:they know they don't know what to look for with holding and interference penalties.
Pure, 100% bullshit.
How bad do you think things are right now when a replay of a textbook hold has to be shown 10x to positively reinforce the retarded zebras can spot a fucking hold.
You could call holding on every play. Is this something new?
It's not just the media pushing this.
Of course it is. As a point of fact, they are the only ones pushing it. Players aren't. Coaches aren't. Owners aren't. The average fan isn't. The only fans pushing it are the ones who spend way too much time listening to idiotic radioheads and writers trying to pad a story.
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Re: replacement refs

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I believe you're wrong, mv.

I've heard at least one coach and player speak out (Harbaugh and Flacco) and I'm sure many more have, at least off the record.

As for "average" fans, I'd say this forum is about as average as it gets, a cross representation of NFL fans league wide. Actually, I'd say that most of the people who post here are above average in both their knowledge of, and passion for, the game played at the pro level.

Suffice to say that the only person here who has agreed with your takes is Paul.
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Re: replacement refs

Post by mvscal »

War Wagon wrote:I've heard at least one coach and player speak out (Harbaugh and Flacco)
You don't say? Losers whining about the officiating? That's never happened before in all of history!! If we only had real officials, this would never happen!

Get a fucking grip.
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Re: replacement refs

Post by poptart »

War Wagon wrote:Suffice to say that the only person here who has agreed with your takes is Paul.
Well, let's say this...

I don't disagree with his takes.


Overall, and generally speaking, do the real officials handle the game better?
Probably so.

But the NFL rulebook - and NFL officiating in general - is a huge clusterfuck, so at the end of the day, is one clusterfuck really better than another?


As far as the replacement refs go - I'm Jimmy Crack Corn.
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Re: replacement refs

Post by Felix »

the anticipated NFL profit revenues are expected to be somewhere in the 6 to 7 billion range over the next five years.....referees are seeking benefits that amount to about $16.5 million over the five year contract term they're looking for..... that's roughly $500,000 per team over the five year period......this has nothing to do with money and everything to do with control......over a 5 year period, 16.5 million isn't even 1% of the revenue the NFL will generate over that same period of time....

if goodell thinks he's going to come out on the positive side of this argument, he's seriously mistaken...it makes him look like a total fucking tool....
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Re: replacement refs

Post by War Wagon »

not only that.

I read where the league offer was that refs could make up to 200k a year... by 2018, the last year of the contract on the table. That's the high end. What's the league minimum for a scrub special teams player? 200k, last I heard.

Is a ref with 20 years of experience not worth what the lowest paid player is?
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Re: replacement refs

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Felix wrote:the anticipated NFL profit revenues are expected to be somewhere in the 6 to 7 billion range over the next five years....
That's gross revenue not profit, dumbfuck. The fact that that has to be explained to you excludes you from any possible intelligent commentary on the subject.

The fact of the matter is that NFL officials are already grossly overcompensated for part time employees and were offered an average 10% pay increase which far exceeds anything you will find in the private sector these days.

They should have taken the deal that was on the table but they fucked up and thought they were more important than they really are. They lose leverage every Sunday.
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Re: replacement refs

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War Wagon wrote:Is a ref with 20 years of experience not worth what the lowest paid player is?
Nope. It shouldn't even be close. Any ambulatory moron who can read can learn how to call a game.
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Re: replacement refs

Post by War Wagon »

sorry mv, while I respect your viewpoint I still think you're wrong. Officiating is a specialized skill garnered over years of experience with not much room for error at the NFL level. You say the regular refs make the same mistakes and just as often, I don't think so.

Too much is at stake and the integrity of the game is being affected. What the tenured refs are asking for is peanuts in the big picture.
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Re: replacement refs

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War Wagon wrote:Too much is at stake and the integrity of the game is being affected.
Complete and utter horseshit. Loosen your corset and take a deep breath, nancy.
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Re: replacement refs

Post by jiminphilly »

mvscal wrote:
War Wagon wrote:Too much is at stake and the integrity of the game is being affected.
Complete and utter horseshit. Loosen your corset and take a deep breath, nancy.

Eagles are 2-0 and should be 0-2.
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Re: replacement refs

Post by Felix »

that fucking game last night is a perfect example of why the NFL should be paying the regular refs what they want.....the "substitutes" lost control of that game early and never got it back....the big fucker from Atlanta [75 or 93] should have been ejected from the game the minute he put his hand on one of the officials....but the timidity of these replacement guys is such that they won't do anything out of fear their going to do something wrong.....I'm not saying that refereeing would have changed the outcome of the game (you can't turn the ball over 4 times and expect to win) but there were numerous missed calls and non-calls alike.....it's become painfully obvious to me that the substitute refs are way out of their depth.....

last night was a perfect example of how not to referee a game....
mvscal wrote: The fact of the matter is that NFL officials are already grossly overcompensated for part time employees and were offered an average 10% pay increase which far exceeds anything you will find in the private sector these days.

They should have taken the deal that was on the table but they fucked up and thought they were more important than they really are. They lose leverage every Sunday.
you're full of shit-it had everything to do with guaranteed pensions and not much at all to do with what they were being paid on field.....
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Re: replacement refs

Post by Goober McTuber »

War Wagon wrote:I believe you're wrong, mv.

I've heard at least one coach and player speak out (Harbaugh and Flacco) and I'm sure many more have, at least off the record.

As for "average" fans, I'd say this forum is about as average as it gets, a cross representation of NFL fans league wide. Actually, I'd say that most of the people who post here are above average in both their knowledge of, and passion for, the game played at the pro level.

Suffice to say that the only person here who has agreed with your takes is Paul.
:bode:

You can’t see a lot of what these refs are missing because it takes place in the defensive backfield on passing plays and the camera is on the QB. Local media who are at the game say they are seeing the DBs get away with a lot of clutching and grabbing. But the receivers are running illegal pick plays so maybe it evens out. No way in hell a guy who reffed Div III a year ago is prepared for the step up in speed in the NFL. If they were, they would at least have been reffing Div I last year.

The refs missed three blatant false starts in the first half of the Packer-49er game. Replacement refs suck. EOS.
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Re: replacement refs

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Ken wrote:That’s a 34mph impact.

Not quite 34.

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Re: replacement refs

Post by jiminphilly »

mvscal wrote: Of course it is. As a point of fact, they are the only ones pushing it. Players aren't. Coaches aren't. Owners aren't. The average fan isn't. The only fans pushing it are the ones who spend way too much time listening to idiotic radioheads and writers trying to pad a story.

Except there is a story.
Philadelphia Eagles running back LeSean McCoy claims a replacement ref approached him during a game and said, “McCoy, come on, I need you for my fantasy,’ furthering a widely-held belief that the lockout between the NFL and its officials is killing the season.

According to a report Tuesday morning from Stephen Douglas of Big Lead Sports, citing comments that McCoy made as a guest this week on the 94WIP Players Lounge, McCoy said that he got the impression that the refs on the field this season are no different from the fans in the stands. The ref had been telling him about his NFL fantasy team before he made that specific comment to McCoy:

“They’re like fans, kind of though,” McCoy said. “I’ll be honest, they’re like fans. One of the refs was talking about his fantasy team, like ‘McCoy, come on, I need you for my fantasy,’ ahhh, what?!”

McCoy also revealed that Baltimore Ravens linebacker Ray Lewis intimidated a ref this season to the point where the official had trouble speaking:

“During the game, they made like a bad call or something, the ref, and I see Ray Lewis like pump his chest up, trying to scare him,” LeSean McCoy told 94WIP’s Anthony Gargano and Ike Reese on the 94WIP Player’s Lounge on Monday. “Don’t you know [the ref] started stuttering? I’m like ‘what’s this?!’”

After a Week 1 start in which the referees seemed to defy expectations from the public and league executives, the replacements have now become the subject of much criticism in Week 2. The league issued a memo to its coaches this week warning them not to bully the replacement refs. The NFL was notified early Sunday morning that a replacement official that was scheduled to officiate the New Orleans Saints-Carolina Panthers game later that day had posted pictures to Facebook that show him wearing Saints gear while tailgating at a Saints preseason game in August.
Why issue a fucking memo if it's not a problem?
The league absolutely knows it has a problem and if week 2 was a perfect example of it.
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Re: replacement refs

Post by Screw_Michigan »

Goodell, as much of a pussy as mvsgash.
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Re: replacement refs

Post by Go Coogs' »

Steve Young is right, though. Do you think the masses are going to switch the channel because of this atrocity? Ratings are up and the NFL and Roger Goodell simply don't give a shit what we (the fans) think. We'll keep watching, won't we?

This has everything to do with money, of course. Retired players getting bigger pensions and health benefits and then active players getting more money with the new CBA. Who was next? The refs wanted a bigger piece of that green pie, but the NFL stood firm and told them to go fuck themselves. The "Shield" is only interested in themselves and their money. They don't care about player safety, the fans, or the players for that matter. They know we won't turn away from the sport. We covet this shit.

The only thing that is going to change this clusterfuck is a marquee player (Brady, Newton, Brees, Megatron...) going down because of a lack of control from officials.
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Re: replacement refs

Post by mvscal »

Go Coogs' wrote:Steve Young is right, though. Do you think the masses are going to switch the channel because of this atrocity?
Why don't you go ahead and link me up to this alleged atrocity. I really don't give a fuck if there are a few less flags on the field or that it might take these guys a little time to get up to speed and keep the game moving.

No big, hairy, fukken deal.
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Re: replacement refs

Post by mvscal »

Felix wrote:you're full of shit-it had everything to do with guaranteed pensions
Guaranteed pensions for part time employees? That is completely ridiculous and totally unheard of anywhere else in the private sector.

Refs need to understand that they take what they're offered, smile and say thank you very much or they can find another part-time hobby that will pay them six figures.

Good luck to them...
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Re: replacement refs

Post by Go Coogs' »

mvscal wrote:Why don't you go ahead and link me up to this alleged atrocity.
Don't need to. Saw it myself last night when a simple 5-yard holding penalty on Denver's defense took the refs 4 minutes to figure out where the ball was to be placed. That, sir, is an atrocity.

Again, I'm not going to stop watching because I love my Texans and I love football. The NFLRA is screwed.
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Re: replacement refs

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While Week 3 of the NFL season was producing more suspect calls during several games, the league and the locked out officials' union met, two people familiar with the talks told The Associated Press.

It was uncertain whether progress was made in an attempt to reach a new collective bargaining agreement, or when further negotiations would take place.

Officiating decisions during several games contributed to a chaotic third Sunday of the season.

The day ended with Patriots coach Bill Belichick grabbing the arm of an official following a close -- but good -- winning field goal by the Ravens as time expired. The NFL warned teams last week that it won't tolerate confrontational behavior toward the new officials.

In his postgame news conference, Belichick said he does not believe he will be fined for grabbing the official after the game.

Patriots linebacker Brandon Spikes took to Twitter to express his anger with the replacement refs.

"Can someone please tell these f------ zebras foot locker called and they're needed Back at work !!!! #BreakingPoint," Spikes tweeted.

Replacement officials admitted making two mistakes in Minnesota's victory over San Francisco, while a few other games included questionable calls that could have affected the outcomes.

Referee Ken Roan said he twice granted 49ers coach Jim Harbaugh video challenges after Harbaugh called timeout in the fourth quarter. Neither challenge should have been allowed once Harbaugh asked for time.

"What I told him was, 'Well you challenged it not knowing what the result of the play was going to be,' " Roan said. "So I granted him the challenge and we went and looked at it. That was wrong. I should not have."

Both mistakes happened in the span of six plays in Minnesota's 24-13 upset of the 49ers.

"My interpretation of it was that he could do that based upon the time factors and not knowing it was a challengeable play to begin with when he called timeout," Roan said. "If you don't have a timeout to lose, you can't make a challenge."

In the Lions-Titans and Bengals-Redskins games, officials marched off too much yardage on penalties.

Lions linebacker Stephen Tulloch's helmet-to-helmet hit on Craig Stevens wound up as a 27-yard penalty in Tennessee's 44-41 overtime win. In OT, from the Titans 44, Jake Locker passed to Stevens over the middle for a 24-yard gain and Tulloch was flagged for the hit. Fourteen yards were added to the end of the play, which then was reviewed and overturned because the ball hit the ground.

However, the penalty still is enforced. Instead of 15 yards, officials marked it off from the Detroit 44 -- the wrong spot.

"As soon as the play was declared incomplete it becomes a first down and it becomes 15 yards from the play before," Lions coach Jim Schwartz said.

The Redskins were penalized 20 yards instead of 15 for unsportsmanlike conduct in the final seconds of their 38-31 loss.

Robert Griffin III spiked the ball to stop the clock with 7 seconds left. Then tight end Fred Davis was called for a 5-yard false start penalty.

According to Washington coach Mike Shanahan, at least one official indicated there would be a 10-second runoff, ending the game -- and the Bengals, led by coach Marvin Lewis, started walking onto the field. There shouldn't have been a runoff, though, because the clock had been stopped by the spike. The Redskins began arguing, and eventually the unsportsmanlike conduct penalty was called.

The officials never announced specifically who the call was against, just that the penalty would be added to the false start, a total of 20 yards. But they walked off 25 yards -- the official game play-by-play said 20 yards were enforced for the unsportsmanlike conduct.

That left the Redskins with a third-and-50.

"They threw the flag at us, and there was half of the (Bengals) team on the field," Shanahan said. "I was disappointed in that."

Then there were more questionable decisions Sunday:

• In Nashville, with 16 seconds remaining in regulation, Detroit's Shaun Hill threw to Nate Burleson on the sideline and he then lost the ball. It looked to be a completion then a fumble because the side judge threw his beanie, but another official ruled an incomplete pass. Titans CB Alterraun Verner had grabbed the ball and started to run and there were questions why the replay booth didn't review it.

• Cowboys quarterback Tony Romo fumbled twice on plays in the third quarter that weren't initially ruled turnovers until challenged by Tampa Bay coach Greg Schiano.

First, Romo was in the grasp of Gerald McCoy with his right arm extended, when he flicked the ball forward in what was initially ruled an incomplete pass. Officials watched the replay and determined the ball was loose when Romo tried to push it out, and called it a fumble recovered by Gary Gibson at the 19.

Later, Michael Bennett sacked Romo and knocked the ball loose, but officials quickly whistled the play dead and Romo down even as Eric Wright ran toward the end zone with the football.

After Schiano challenged, officials reversed it to a fumble recovered at the 31, and the Bucs failed to score.

"They blew it dead. But the refs are doing a great job," McCoy said. "A lot of people are complaining. We've got what we got. Everyone needs to accept it. They're trying their hardest. No ref wants to go out there and make a bad call."

• Raiders receiver Darrius Heyward-Bey was taken to the hospital with a neck injury after a helmet-to-helmet hit from Steelers safety Ryan Mundy that was not penalized.

Heyward-Bey was running across the end zone early in the fourth quarter to catch a pass from Carson Palmer when Mundy launched his body and lowered his helmet into Heyward-Bey's facemask. Heyward-Bey's neck jerked violently and his head also crashed into the ground. The pass was incomplete.

"Once again the refs missed it, like they always do," Oakland defensive tackle Tommy Kelly said.

• Dolphins tight end Anthony Fasano was ruled to have made a catch near the Jets' goal line and the call was held up after review, even though the ball touched the ground as he was tackled.

"Well, I think the fact that we have to talk about it after every game is something right there," Vikings linebacker Chad Greenway said. "I don't think in my seven-year career that I've had to do that ever. So that probably tells you the story right there."

Earlier Sunday, the players' union posted an open letter to team owners calling on them to end the lockout of the regular officials that began in June when their contact expired. The NFL used replacements in 2001 for one week before a new deal was reached.

This year, criticism from coaches and players has mounted for the replacements, who come from lower college levels or from other leagues such as Arena Football.

There have been numerous complaints by players and coaches -- certainly more than when the regular officials work -- and Sunday was no different. In one particularly embarrassing episode an official was removed from working a New Orleans game last week because he posted photos of himself in Saints gear on Facebook.

One new snag in negotiations between the league and the NFL Referees Association is the latter's request for a ratification bonus to approve a new deal in which the union has made concessions, sources familiar with the talks told ESPN's Chris Mortensen.

The league has resisted such a bonus because it believes it is a mechanism for the locked-out officials to receive money for games they have missed, the sources said. The union maintained to the NFL that a lump-sum bonus paid to it is a common treatment for its members to ratify an agreement in which it has made concessions to the league. Under the proposal, the union would have discretion to distribute the amount as it desires.
http://espn.go.com/espn/print?id=8418497&type=story
Joe in PB wrote: Yeah I'm the dumbass
schmick, speaking about Larry Nassar's pubescent and prepubescent victims wrote: They couldn't even kick that doctors ass

Seems they rather just lay there, get fucked and play victim
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Re: replacement refs

Post by War Wagon »

I'm surprised that ESPN article didn't mention the 5, count 'em 1-2-3-4-FIVE, calls in the Chiefs-Saints game that were reversed.

That has to be some kinda' record.
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Re: replacement refs

Post by Screw_Michigan »

War Wagon wrote:I'm surprised that ESPN article didn't mention the 5, count 'em 1-2-3-4-FIVE, calls in the Chiefs-Saints game that were reversed.

That has to be some kinda' record.
Why are you surprised? ESPN and the NFL are totally in bed with each other and exposing the awfulness of the scab refs makes the NFL look bad.
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I was actually going to to join in the best bets activity here at good ole T1B...The guy that runs that contest is a fucking prick
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You are truly one of the worst pieces of shit to ever post on this board. Start giving up your paycheck for reparations now and then you can shut the fuck up about your racist blasts.
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Re: replacement refs

Post by Go Coogs' »

The refs in the Donks-Texans game did fine up until Denver's last score. They missed a delay of game on Manning on 4th and 16 and called PI on Kareem Jackson for running in front of Decker's route. Horrible fucking call. Donks were given a TD on that drive.
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Re: replacement refs

Post by Goober McTuber »

Screw_Michigan wrote:
War Wagon wrote:I'm surprised that ESPN article didn't mention the 5, count 'em 1-2-3-4-FIVE, calls in the Chiefs-Saints game that were reversed.

That has to be some kinda' record.
Why are you surprised? ESPN and the NFL are totally in bed with each other and exposing the awfulness of the scab refs makes the NFL look bad.
Because they didn't specifically mention the Chiefs-Saints game, there's some sort of conspiracy going on? The story only focused on games people actually cared about. Here's another ESPN story about the replacement refs:

BALTIMORE -- Before we get to the crux of the problem, let's dispense with some important facts.

No. 1: The New England Patriots DID NOT lose to the Baltimore Ravens on Sunday because of the atrocious officiating during the prime-time horror show, which hereafter will officially be dubbed Flag Day.

No. 2: The penalty called on Devin McCourty with 52 seconds left in the game that gave Baltimore a first-and-goal from New England's 7-yard line and effectively sealed an opportunity for the Ravens to win on a short field goal was exactly the right call. McCourty did illegally impede receiver Jacoby Jones as he streaked down the sideline.

"It was interference," confirmed McCourty in hushed tones after his team's numbing 31-30 loss. "I've got to make that play."

No. 3: No matter how badly the replacement officials performed, the Patriots need to show more restraint than their coach, Bill Belichick, who angrily pursued and yanked the arm of line judge Esteban Garza as he ran off the field.

They must exhibit more poise than their young linebacker Brandon Spikes, who, in the aftermath of the loss, tweeted: "Can someone please tell these f------ zebras foot locker called and they're needed Back at work !!!!"

OK. I've dispensed with all of my disclaimers. The New England Patriots are 1-2 this morning because their defense gave up 503 total yards and enabled Joe Flacco to morph into Dan Marino after a horrendous start that left the Ravens trailing 13-0.

Having said all that, it's impossible not to be fixated on the replacement officials. It's like watching a grisly 20-car pile-up. It's so hideous and unseemly you find yourself unable to divert your gaze from the wreckage.

C'mon now, Roger Goodell. Time to stop the madness.

Enough. Enough, enough, enough. Every week we think it can't get any worse, and every single week it does. Your replacement officials have left your game in tatters. They have destroyed the spirit, the intensity and the rhythm of the game.

They are an embarrassment, and they need to go.

Now.

Not after next weekend, not at the end of the month, not after Halloween. They have lost all credibility with the fans, the coaches, the players and the media.

You have taken your pro football league, the undisputed crown jewel of American sports, and you have sullied it so thoroughly that your players are wondering aloud how they can continue.

It's like taking a shiny Maserati and dropping it into a vat of hazardous waste. The refs are poisoning your product.
Bill Belichick kept his comments to reporters short, but had plenty to say to the game officials.

"It's frustrating," nose tackle Vince Wilfork admitted. "We're an aggressive defense. It takes away from our aggressiveness at times. The things we try to do, now we're hesitant to do this and do that.

"But what are you going to do? You've got to play within the rules."

Belichick, still seething in his postgame news conference, was asked why he chased down Garza when the game ended.

"I'm not going to comment about that," he answered. "You saw the game. What did we have, 30 penalties called in that game?"

Actually, there were 24 penalties in all, and even though the Ravens earned the W, you could have easily made the case they were more adversely affected by the referees. New England was whistled for 10 penalties for 83 yards, while Baltimore was tagged with 14 penalties for a whopping 135 yards.

"If they had lost this game," Patriots receiver Deion Branch noted, "they'd be hollering like crazy."

Oh, don't worry. They were. Future Hall of Famer Ray Lewis was particularly bothered by a call late in the third quarter on safety Ed Reed, who leveled Branch on a play in the middle of the field with a bone-crunching hit. Had no flag been thrown, it would have been fourth down and New England would have punted. Instead, the Patriots were awarded a first down at the Baltimore 18-yard line. That possession led to a field goal and a 30-21 New England lead.

"You can't do that to the game," Lewis said. "You have to let the game take care of itself. One of the biggest plays of the game, you give them three points.

"There was no helmet-to-helmet. [Reed] turned his head to the side and clearly hit him with his shoulder pad."

The hit undoubtedly will be reviewed by the league office. Maybe fines will be forthcoming, maybe not. The problem is even when the call is correct, it no longer holds any weight, because nobody -- nobody -- believes the replacement officials have earned the authority to make it.

"I'm not saying the old refs are perfect," Ravens cornerback Lardarius Webb said, "but it sure would be nice to see them right now."

What irked players most in each locker room was the inconsitency of the flags. On certain plays significant contact was allowed, while on others, penalties were called for minimal contact. Asked if he could discern what constituted a penalty and what didn't, Wilfork replied, "I know what the rules are, but it's not up to me. I'm not throwing the flag."

When Webb was asked if he knew what was legal, he confessed, "No, I really don't."

Are you listening, Mr. Goodell? Your players don't even know the rules of their game anymore.

The NFL is fortunate that no one has been seriously injured because of this. You have dodged a hail of bullets with these replacement refs, but sooner or later your luck is going to run out.

Here were the lasting images of Sunday night's game: Webb throwing his helmet in disgust, Wilfork screaming at an official in the end zone after Justin Tucker's winning kick, Belichick chasing down a referee who was savvy enough to do his best Forrest Gump and keep on running.


"I think what we've got to do going forward is take it out of the refs' hands," Branch mused. "That's going to be our mantra from here on out. That's always been true, but tonight it was proven to us. We can't leave [the outcome of the game] in their hands anymore."

Branch knows how it works. We all do. We can trash the replacement refs and the players can vent their frustrations, but as long as the paying public stays tuned, there's no real urgency. The ratings are still good. The money is still coming in.

But at what price?

Without the integrity of the game, what do you have? A bunch of big, strong, angry men who have reached their breaking point.

Bring the refs back now, before one of those big, strong angry men boils over, before they make you rue the day you ever let it come to this.
Joe in PB wrote: Yeah I'm the dumbass
schmick, speaking about Larry Nassar's pubescent and prepubescent victims wrote: They couldn't even kick that doctors ass

Seems they rather just lay there, get fucked and play victim
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Re: replacement refs

Post by Go Coogs' »

Yeah, Screwy, you're an idiot. ESPN has made it their personal mission to talk about the mistakes replacement officials have made through the first three weeks.

It was their feature story all day last Tuesday on SC, AtH, PTI, and Mike and Mike. It's also being talked about today. ESPN is not in bed with the NFL on this issue.
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Re: replacement refs

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It would be kind of hard to cover up. Unless your audience was filled with mvscals.
Joe in PB wrote: Yeah I'm the dumbass
schmick, speaking about Larry Nassar's pubescent and prepubescent victims wrote: They couldn't even kick that doctors ass

Seems they rather just lay there, get fucked and play victim
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