Case Keenum

[Van]

No respectable program playing in a real conference leaves their franchise QB in to throw nine TD passes during a gawdawful rout of a helpless opponent...

...so up yours. Keenum's numbers are rightfully considered nearly meaningless. No one gives a shit about this Mickey Mouse brand of stats-padding football.

[Go Coogs']

If you were a non-AQ school trying to get a new stadium, a BCS invite, and an invite to a big conference, you'd be running up the score too, Van.

[MuchoBulls]

I thought Houston was already in the process of renovating their stadium?

[Go Coogs']

I thought Houston was already in the process of renovating their stadium?

Negative. They are in the process of raising enough money to build a new stadium. They need $85 million to break ground. Currently they have $73 million raised. BCS Bowl, Heisman Invite, National Exposure, Invite to bigger conference = more money.

[Mikey]

I thought Houston was already in the process of renovating their stadium?

Negative. They are in the process of raising enough money to build a new stadium. They need $85 million to break ground. Currently they have $73 million raised. BCS Bowl, Heisman Invite, National Exposure, Invite to bigger conference = more money.

They're in Houston for Christ's sake. Isn't here some T Boone Pickens type around there ready to dump a bunch of $$ into the athletic program? If not then the boosters just aren't sucking enough dick.

[Van]

If you were a non-AQ school trying to get a new stadium, a BCS invite, and an invite to a big conference, you'd be running up the score too, Van.

Maybe so, but even as I was doing it I would realize that the numbers I'm putting up against truly pathetic competition will rightfully be taken with a grain of salt. In fact, such blatant stat/score padding probably only detracts from the nation's perception of Houston and C-USA football, accurately painting it as the noncompetitve joke that it is.

[Go Coogs']

Maybe so, but even as I was doing it I would realize that the numbers I'm putting up against truly pathetic competition will rightfully be taken with a grain of salt. In fact, such blatant stat/score padding probably only detracts from the nation's perception of Houston and C-USA football, accurately painting it as the noncompetitve joke that it is.

College Football Live mentioned them
Around The Horn mentioned them
I'm sure PTI is next.

Oh, but I'm sure its not the attention they want.

Van, the next time you utter the phrase "In fact", the following words should be "I don't have a clue what I'm talking about."

[Van]

Reporting on it doesn't mean anything. Of course they reported such a ridiculous freakshow. What isn't going to happen as a result of all this stats-padding is any serious talk of "Keenum for the Heisman!" or "Houston: a real player in college football?" No one is under any illusions that this isn't all just the product of a stats-greedy program feeding on the utter dregs of college football.

[Go Coogs']

They're in Houston for Christ's sake. Isn't here some T Boone Pickens type around there ready to dump a bunch of $$ into the athletic program? If not then the boosters just aren't sucking enough dick.

Houston is a Tier 1 University now and they've had plenty of eye-popping donations given to their Business School, Research School, and Technology School, but they still don't have a Howard Hughes type who is a huge football fan. Maybe there is one in hiding and they are just waiting for the right time to donate, but I doubt it.

Hell, Jack Valenti didn't give a dime to the School of Communications until his wife pried it from his cold dead hands. Of course, she gave them the money on the condition that the Communications School be named after him.

[Go Coogs']

Reporting on it doesn't mean anything. Of course they reported such a ridiculous freakshow. What isn't going to happen as a result of all this stats-padding is any serious talk of "Keenum for the Heisman!" or "Houston: a real player in college football?" No one is under any illusions that this isn't all just the product of a stats-greedy program feeding on the utter dregs of college football.

So when Steve McNair was padding his stats at Alcorn State the media had nothing to do with him getting an invite to New York?

Are you saying ESPN has no influence on hype?

[M2]

They're in Houston for Christ's sake. Isn't here some T Boone Pickens type around there ready to dump a bunch of $$ into the athletic program? If not then the boosters just aren't sucking enough dick.

There is... and I think he's given something like $100 million to the athletic dept. in the recent past ten years or so.

I think it was some computer guy alum.

I'm not sure why that guy doesn't just cover that bill if that's all the money they really need.

Rumps, whatever happened to that guy ?

[Van]

Reporting on it doesn't mean anything. Of course they reported such a ridiculous freakshow. What isn't going to happen as a result of all this stats-padding is any serious talk of "Keenum for the Heisman!" or "Houston: a real player in college football?" No one is under any illusions that this isn't all just the product of a stats-greedy program feeding on the utter dregs of college football.

So when Steve McNair was padding his stats at Alcorn State the media had nothing to do with him getting an invite to New York?

Was Steve McNair, Tommy Chang or any other 'system' QB who compiled ridiculous stats while playing in a minor league ever given serious consideration for the Heisman? No, of course they weren't, and neither will Keenum. In his case an invitation to New York is just a courtesy nod to politcial correctness; a symbolic bone thrown to the smalltime programs. It means nothing.

Are you saying ESPN has no influence on hype?

:?

Where did you ever get that idea from me? ESPN is the very definition of 'hype,' especially where college football and the Heisman are concerned. I doubt there is any other sport that is more driven by ESPN than college football.

[Mikey]

I doubt there is any other sport that is more driven by ESPN than college football.

Big Time Power Televised Poker maybe?

[Felix]

really nine fucking TD passes?
they were up 25 points with roughly 4 minutes left in the 3rd quarter and the coaches still have keenum chucking it for TD's? that's bad enough, but with 5 minutes gone in the 4th quarter, keenum is still throwing passes? wtf was keenum still doing in the game?

Sumlin set the douchebag bar pretty high with that bush league shit....

[Van]

It's not even debatable.

[Dinsdale]

Was Steve McNair, Tommy Chang or any other 'system' QB who compiled ridiculous stats while playing in a minor league ever given serious consideration for the Heisman? No, of course they weren't.

Fuckin'A, Van -- you were waltzing to victory in this exchange, right up until the point you decided to stop kicking Rump's ass and instead started dropping science on your own.

To answer your question... yes, yes they were.

From the same fucking school you're dismissing now. Then his successor finished second (IIRC) the next year.

Just stop. You have brutally beaten your own ass.

[Van]

True, there was Andre Ware...a long time ago. Since then, these small conference 'system' QBs haven't had any real shot at winning it, and the trend seems to be going more and more away from them. Again, witness Timmy Chang, Colt Brennan, Keenum in '08 and '09, and even Graham Harrell, despite playing in the Big XII. In recent years these gaudy passing stats aren't garnering all that much respect among Heisman voters.

I'm surprised you didn't jump on my 'Tommy' Chang fuck-up.

[Dinsdale]

True, there was Andre Ware...a long time ago. Since then, these small conference 'system' QBs haven't had any real shot at winning it

First off, should I go all Van and C&P the definition of "ever"?


Does "since then" include the very next year (same school, even)?

[Van]

True, there was Andre Ware...a long time ago. Since then, these small conference 'system' QBs haven't had any real shot at winning it

First off, should I go all Van and C&P the definition of "ever"?

If you wish, although I already granted the omission of Andre Ware from quite long ago.

Does "since then" include the very next year (same school, even)?

In this case, yes, it does, since your memory of David Klingler's impact on the 1990 Heisman voting is clearly quite a bit removed from reality...

1990 Heisman Trophy voting...

1 Ty Detmer Brigham Young JR QB 1482 points
2 Raghib Ismail Notre Dame JR WR 1177 points
3 Eric Bieniemy Colorado SR RB 798 points
4 Shawn Moore Virginia SR QB 465 points
5 David Klingler Houston JR QB 374 points
6 Herman Moore Virginia JR WR 68 points
7 Greg Lewis Washington SR RB 41 points
8 Darren Lewis Texas A&M SR RB 31 points
8 Craig Erickson Miami (FL) SR QB 31 points
10 Mike Mayweather Army SR RB 20 points

Now, would you care to argue this point over the past two decades, particularly as it pertains to the recent past and present?

[Goober McTuber]

When Andre Ware won the Heisman, Houston was playing in a big boy football conference. Just sayin'.

[Go Coogs']

really nine fucking TD passes?
they were up 25 points with roughly 4 minutes left in the 3rd quarter and the coaches still have keenum chucking it for TD's? that's bad enough, but with 5 minutes gone in the 4th quarter, keenum is still throwing passes? wtf was keenum still doing in the game?

Sumlin set the douchebag bar pretty high with that bush league shit....

No it isn't. We're in a time of non-AQs schools having to pass the eye test with gaudy like stats and high scores just to garner a little attention in the national spotlight. Everyone is talking about Andrew Luck, LSU-Bama, BTPCF realignment, and of course, the BCS. Sumlin and Keenum HAD to hang 73 on Rice on a Thursday night just so they could get 30 seconds of camera time on College Football Live, ATH, and PTI. If Houston won 45-30, nobody would be talking about them right now.

They have to do whatever is necessary to get the hype machine (ESPN) to notice them.

[Go Coogs']

No way Houston gets to #11 with that shitty excuse for a schedule.

No chance in hell.

You were saying?

Still a long way to go in order for Houston to stay there or move up, but there they are, #11 through ten weeks.

SMU, Tulsa, and possibly Southern Miss still on the schedule, so their chances of going 13-0 before bowl season are 50-50. A slow start against Tulsa could derail their perfect season and that is a good possibility considering Houston's history on the road this season.

@ North Texas - tied at 17 with less than two minutes to play in the first half. Houston eventually won 48-23
@ La Tech - down 34-7 with four minutes to go in the 3rd quarter. Houston came back to win it 35-34
@ UTEP - down 14-0 midway through the second quarter. Houston rallied to win 49-42
@ UAB - a turnover and led to UAB striking first to take a 7-0 lead midway through the 1st quarter. Houston won 56-13.
@ Tulane - ??? - Houston should win without much trouble.
@ Tulsa - ??? - if they start off slow like they have in all their road games, Tulsa will make them pay.

[Mace]

That schedule looks familiar to me for some reason. Oh yeah, over the years, several of those teams have been on Iowa's early season schedule. They called them cupcakes. Just sayin'.

[Go Coogs']

That schedule looks familiar to me for some reason. Oh yeah, over the years, several of those teams have been on Iowa's early season schedule. They called them cupcakes. Just sayin'.

Their schedule is a joke, no doubt, but let me bask in the road to perfection a little while. If they go undefeated you won't hear me pleading for a BCS invite. If Boise loses and Houston wins out, that will take care of itself. If Boise wins out and UH wins out, then Boise deserves a BCS bid over Houston because of their SOS and high ranking before the season started.

Even if its a trip to the Liberty Bowl against Mississippi State or Florida, I'll be happy.

[Atomic Punk]

Rumps, my bro... Houston played La Tech and barely won. UH has a great QB and I hope he gets drafted high.

They suck and when Case gets drafted UH goes into the tank. Case reminds me of the Jeff Tedford recruits and he is special. Once he goes to the NFL UH is done.

[Go Coogs']

Rumps, my bro... Houston played La Tech and barely won. UH has a great QB and I hope he gets drafted high.

They suck and when Case gets drafted UH goes into the tank. Case reminds me of the Jeff Tedford recruits and he is special. Once he goes to the NFL UH is done.

AP, in no way am I comparing Houston to the big dogs, but a lot of good teams have that game where they are the clear favorites and nearly blow it or lose.

See Oklahoma vs Texas Tech
See Boise St vs Air Force
See Oregon vs Wazzu
See Arkansas vs Ole Miss and Vandy
See Nebraska vs Northwestern

Again, I'm not sure how good or bad Houston really is, but I hope I find out in the Liberty Bowl against an SEC foe or better yet, on the big stage against a real opponent.

And to your point about Houston being done when Keenum is gone, I think people thought the same thing when Kolb, Battle, Avery and Alridge all graduated after Houston won C-USA in 2006. Blake Joseph was supposed to be THE guy. He and Keenum split time their freshman year and Keenum didn't win the job with his play. It was still up in the air headed in their sophomore seasons, but Sumlin had to make a decision and he basically flipped a coin and picked Keenum as the starter. The rest is history.

I agree that nobody will replace Keenum as a prolific passer at Houston, but that's when coaching adjustments come into play. David Piland took his lumps as a true frosh when Keenum and Turner both went down with season ending injuries last season, but the experience helped him without question. I don't believe Houston will go into the tank when Keenum leaves, but they definitely won't have the same success unless they can get the recruits to replace him. Keenum's Heisman status will help, but more importantly, a new stadium and better facilities are needed in order to convince the occasional 3 1/2 and 4 star recruit to stay home.

Houston has some sustainability now as a somewhat successful program. They've turned in winning seasons four out of the last five years including two 10 win seasons. They should eclipse 10 this season which would make three 10 win seasons since 2007. That kind of sustainability as a program will draw recruits and young coaches who want to use Houston as a stepping stone for a bigger job (see Briles to Baylor). Sumlin will be offered a head coaching position at a bigger school next season and some young, bad ass OC will take the Houston head coaching job when Sumlin gets his opportunity on a bigger stage. But in order for Houston to take the next step, it all comes down to the new stadium being built. Word is John O'Quinn's estate is being finalized and its rumored a nice chunk is going to the football program. It's alleged O'Quinn's net worth was over a billion dollars when he died in 2009.

To answer your question, I don't think Houston goes by the wayside when Keenum leaves.

[King Crimson]

[
In this case, yes, it does, since your memory of David Klingler's impact on the 1990 Heisman voting is clearly quite a bit removed from reality...

1990 Heisman Trophy voting...

1 Ty Detmer Brigham Young JR QB 1482 points

yeah, but i'm not sure Ty Detmer's actual Heisman doesn't remove the question. Small time conference team, big gimmick Lavell Edwards numbers....

[Van]

Not the same thing at all. In 1990 BYU had fairly recently won a national championship. They weren't defined by anything approaching the current BCS's AQ/non-AQ status as being a small-time program playing in a Mickey Mouse league.

[King Crimson]

Not the same thing at all. In 1990 BYU had fairly recently won a national championship. They weren't defined by anything approaching the current BCS's AQ/non-AQ status as being a small-time program playing in a Mickey Mouse league.

1990 was CU/Ga Tech. Maybe you mean 1984 which was total Mickey Mouse.

[Van]

No, I meant 1984 as it relates to 1990, which was why I specified "fairly recently." I'd call 1984 fairly recent to 1990. Also, by 1990 BYU had already produced Jim McMahon, Steve Young and Robbie Bosco. They were a well-established QB factory.