T1B

Damn you smackie. You beat me to the balloon analogy.

Dinsdale wrote:Watch out Einstein, here comes T1B!

The fatter dude would increase the drag over the ice slightly, which would make the heavier sled go slightly slower. But if the drag was somehow equalized, and the aerodynamic drag was the same...

The weight doesn't æffect how fast the sled goes down the hill.

Again, other factors will have an æffect, such as the drag coefficient over the ice and the aerodynamic drag, but the actual weight... no.

Sin,
Physics 101


Seriously, you guys need to log into T1B to learn the basic laws of fucking gravity? Seriously?

You are a profound idiot.

1. The force making anything fall, is of course gravity. This force is a function of mass.
2. A force preventing movement through the air is drag.

Simply put, the greater the difference between the force of gravity (which is a function of mass) and the force from drag, the faster an object will fall.

Further, the heavier object will accelerate and reach terminal velocity faster. The force pulling something to earth is constant (gravity). The force of drag increases as an object moves faster. As long as the force of gravity is greater than the force of drag, the object accelerates. Eventually, the force of drag will equal that of gravity- terminal velocity. Terminal velocity is much lower for objects with high drag and low mass. Objects with low drag and high mass have a much higher terminal velocity- i.e. a heavier bobsled will accelerate faster than a light one (if drag is the same).

Now of course, I did not take into account the coefficient of friction (which dimsdale excellently refers to as drag coefficient over the ice). The effect a heavier bobsled has on the CoF, I’m not sure of. Sure, heavier objects create more friction, but at the same time, it’s the brief melting of the ice by the bobsled runners that allow for 'cool running’ (less friction). The heavier an object, the more quickly the ice will melt underneath the runner. The question is:

1. With a heavier sled, is the quicker melting of the ice enough to overcome the added friction due to the weight?

Damn you, Mikey. You beat me to it. With that said, your answer was much more eloquent than mine. Trots mine, as a matter of fact.

Ken wrote:The effect a heavier bobsled has on the CoF, I’m not sure of.

So, you burned up that many keystrokes to say "we don't know the variables of bobsled friction, but gravity is a constant"?

Dang, where have I heard that before?

Oh, that's right -- in every post on the subject by anyone not named smackaholic or KCScott.

Smackoholic beat us both.

I like that you brought up "terminal velocity". That's where all the forces are equal. Acceleration is nil and velocity remains constant.

Dinsdale wrote:So, you burned up that many keystrokes to say "we don't know the variables of bobsled friction, but gravity is a constant"?

No, I burned up that many keystrokes to illustrate your profound idiocy. Well worth the time, as a matter of fact.

Ken wrote:Damn you, Mikey. You beat me to it. With that said, your answer was much more eloquent than mine.

Not so fast. You did manage to call Dins "a profound idiot." That was kinda eloquent.

Otherwise, yeah, it would seem to be fairly obvious that in a gravity-based contest of speed such as Soap Box Derby or bobsled the heavier object will pick up greater speed, and it'll do it faster, assuming equal drag and the same running gear.

Van wrote:assuming equal drag and the same running gear.

Why not just run the bobsleds in a vacuum then?

Buncha einsteins up in this bitch.

Allow two bowling balls to roll down the same icy hill. One of the bowling balls is hollow, so it only weighs a pound or two, while the other ball weighs sixteen pounds. Otherwise, they both have the same construction, presenting the same dimensions and surface material to the ice. Which one picks up greater speed sooner?

Van wrote:Allow two bowling balls to roll down the same icy hill. One of the bowling balls is hollow, so it only weighs a pound or two, while the other ball weighs sixteen pounds. Otherwise, they both have the same construction, presenting the same dimensions and surface material to the ice. Which one picks up greater speed sooner?

Are they in a vacuum cleaner?

(rolling and sliding have very different characteristics, BTW)

Okay, attach two equally weighted and equally sharpened blades to each bowling ball, then run the same drill.

Van wrote:Okay, attach two equally weighted and equally sharpened blades to each bowling ball, then run the same drill.

Are they dressed in flesh colored body suits accented by colorful pieces of fabric intended to make them look like a lot of skin is showing, or head to toe in black ruffles and feathers?

trev wrote:I happen to prefer figure skating over skateboarding on ice. I find it more artistic as well as athletic.

Leaving aside the sexual orientations of the participants, any "sport" where the word "athletic" has a negative connotation isn't a sport at all. Just sayin'.

Oh, and I should add…

KC Scott wrote:No. examples; soap box derby or Nascar - it's power to weight ratio.
Same power propelling two objects - the lighter weight object will be faster.
I learned this the hard way, in 125 cc Motocross - I was 150 and the two kids that beat regularly were about 130

... worst analogy ever.
So bad that I don’t know if an effort that bad deserves a rack or a caning.

Ken wrote:Oh, and I should add…

KC Scott wrote:No. examples; soap box derby or Nascar - it's power to weight ratio.
Same power propelling two objects - the lighter weight object will be faster.
I learned this the hard way, in 125 cc Motocross - I was 150 and the two kids that beat regularly were about 130

... worst analogy ever.
So bad that I don’t know if an effort that bad deserves a rack or a caning.

Don't all bobsleds have the same horsepower?

Mikey is having way too much fun with this topic. :D

Rack mikey for putting into proper eloquent scientific smart ass terms what I was trying to say.

Rack ken as well for pointing out what clueless dumbfukks scott and dims are on this topic.

disclaimer* i still think dims and scott a fairly bright individuals, just so long as they stay away from "physics 101". Actually, the aero drag and ice drag friction are prolly higher level physics.

now dins, if you wanna contribute (other than as a debate speedbag) to this thread, go ahead and google the rules regarding weight on sleds. I don't think there is a minimum, but, i do believe there may be a max.

Mikey wrote:

Ken wrote:Oh, and I should add…

KC Scott wrote:No. examples; soap box derby or Nascar - it's power to weight ratio.
Same power propelling two objects - the lighter weight object will be faster.
I learned this the hard way, in 125 cc Motocross - I was 150 and the two kids that beat regularly were about 130

... worst analogy ever.
So bad that I don’t know if an effort that bad deserves a rack or a caning.

Don't all bobsleds have the same horsepower?

no. bobsleds, unlike soap box derby cars do benefit from hp inputs at the start.

what i'm wondering is if those evil eurotrash IOC bastids will try to cockblock the US's new dynasty, the #1 sled. I suspect they will try something along the lines of NASCAR restricter plates. They figure that an obese american pilot will not be able to run very fast if he has to breath through a straw. This will put the advantage back to those fukkin' northern euro cardio freaks who could run 10 miles on one breath.