A question about Israel

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

DATE PLACE EVENT
250 C.E. Canhage Expulsion
224 C.E. Italy Forced Conversion
325 C.E. Jerusalem Expulsion
351 C.E Persia Book Burning
357 C.E. Italy Property Confiscation
379 C.E. Milan Synagogue Burning
415 C.E. Alexandria Expulsion
418 C.E. Minorca Forced Conversion
469 C.E. Ipahan Holocaust
489 C.E. Antioch Synagogue Burning
506 C.E. Daphne Synagogue Burning
519 C.E. Ravenna Synagogue Burning
554 C.E. Diocese of Clement (France) Expulsion
561 C.E. Diocese of Uzes (France) Expulsion
582 C.E Merovingia Forced Conversion
612 C.E. Visigoth Spain Expulsion
628 C.E. Byzantium Forced Conversion
629 C.E. Merovingia Forced Conversion
633 C.E. Toledo Forced Conversion
638 C.E. Toledo Stake Burnings
642 C.E. Visigothic Empire Expulsion
653 C.E. Toledo Expulsion
681 C.E. Spain Forced Conversion
693 C.E. Toledo Jews Enslaved
722 C.E. Byzantium Judaism Outlawed
855 C.E. Italy Expulsion
876 C.E. Sens Expulsion
897 C.E. Narbonne Land Confiscation
945 C.E. Venice Ban on Sea Travel
1009 C.E. Orleans Massacre
1012 C.E. Rouen, Limoges & Rome Massacre
1012 C.E. Mayence Expulsion
1021 C.E. Rome Jews Burned Alive
1063 C.E. Spain Massacre
1095 C.E. Lorraine Massacre
1096 C.E. Northern France & Germany 1/3 of Jewish Population Massacred
1096 C.E. Hungary Massacre
1096 C.E. Ralisbon Massacre
1099 C.E. Jerusalem Jews Burned Alive
1100 C.E. Kiev Pogrom
1140 C.E. Germany Massacres
1146 C.E. Rhine Valley Massacre
1147 C.E. Wurzburg Massacre
1147 C.E. Belitz (Germany) Jews Burned Alive
1147 C.E. Carenton, Ramenu & Sully (France) Massacres
1171 C.E. Blois Stake Burnings
1181 C.E. France Expulsion
1181 C.E. England Property Confiscation
1188 C.E. London & York Mob Attacks
1190 C.E. Norfolk Jews Burned Alive
1191 C.E. Bray (France) Jews Burned Alive
1195 C.E. France Property Confiscation
1209 C.E. Beziers Massacre
1212 C.E. Spain Rioting and blood bath against the Jews of Toledo.
1215 C.E. Rome Lateran Council of Rome decrees that Jews must wear the "badge of shame" in all Christian countries. Jews are denied all public sector employment, and are burdened with extra taxes.
1215 C.E. Toulouse (France) Mass Arrests
1218 C.E. England Jews Forced to Wear Badges
1231 C.E. Rome Inquisition Established
1236 C.E. France Forced Conversion/Massacre
1239 C.E. London Massacre & Property Confiscation
1240 C.E. Austria Property confiscation. Jews either imprisoned, converted, expelled, or burned.
1240 C.E. France Talmud Confiscated
1240 C.E. England Book Burning
1240 C.E. Spain Forced Conversion
1242 C.E. Paris Talmud Burned
1244 C.E. Oxford Mob Attacks
1255 C.E. England Blood libel in Lincoln results in the burning / torture of many Jews & public hangings.
1261 C.E. Canterbury Mob Attacks
1262 C.E. London Mob Attacks
1264 C.E. London Mob Attacks
1264 C.E. Germany Council of Vienna declares that all Jews must wear a "pointed dunce cap." Thousands murdered.
1267 C.E. Vienna Jews Forced to Wear Horned Hats
1270 C.E. Weissenberg, Magdeburg, Arnstadt, Coblenz, Singzig, and Erfurt Jews Burned Alive
1270 C.E. England The libel of the "counterfeit coins" - all Jewish men, women and children in England imprisoned. Hundreds are hung.
1276 C.E. Bavaria Expulsion
1278 C.E. Genoa (Spain) Mob Attacks
1279 C.E. Hungary & Poland The Council of Offon denies Jews the right to all civic positions. The Jews of Hungary & Poland are forced to wear the "red badge of shame."
1283 C.E. Mayence & Bacharach Mob Attacks
1285 C.E. Munich Jews Burned Alive
1290 C.E. England King Edward I issues an edict banishing all Jews from England. Many drowned.
1291 C.E. France The Jewish refugees from England are promptly expelled from France.
1292 C.E. Italy Forced conversions & expulsion of the Italian Jewish community.
1298 C.E. Germany The libel of the "Desecrated Host" is perpetrated against the Jews of Germany. Approximately 150 Jewish communities undergo forced conversion.
1298 C.E. Franconia, Bavaria & Austria Reindfel's Decree is propagated against the Jews of Franconia and Bavarai. Riots against these Jewish communities, as well as those in Austria, result in the massacre of 100,000 Jews over a six-month period.
1306 C.E. France Expulsion
1308 C.E. Strasbourg Jews Burned Alive
1320 C.E. Toulouse & Perpigon 120 Communities Massacred & Talmud Burned
1321 C.E. Teruel Public Executions
1328 C.E. Estella 5,000 Jews Slaughtered
1348 C.E. France & Spain Jews Burned Alive
1348 C.E. Switzerland Expulsion
1349 C.E. Worms, Strasbourg, Oppenheim, Mayence, Erfurt, Bavaria & Swabia Jews Burned Alive
1349 C.E. Heilbronn (Germany) Expulsion
1349 C.E. Hungary Expulsion
1354 C.E. Castile (Spain) 12,000 Jews Slaughtered
1368 C.E. Toledo 8,000 Jews Slaughtered
1370 C.E. Majorca., Penignon & Barcelona Mob Attack
1377 C.E. Huesca (Spain) Jews Burned Alive
1380 C.E. Paris Mob Attack
1384 C.E. Nordlingen Mass Murder
1388 C.E. Strasbourg Expulsion
1389 C.E. Prague Mass Slaughter & Book Burning
1391 C.E. Castille, Toledo, Madrid, Seville, Cordova, Cuenca & Barcelona Forced Conversions & Mass Murder
1394 C.E. Germany Expulsion
1394 C.E. France Expulsion
1399 C.E. Posen (Poland) Jews Burned Alive
1400 C.E. Prague Stake Burnings
1407 C.E. Cracow Mob Attack
1415 C.E. Rome Talmud Confiscated
1422 C.E. Austria Jews Burned Alive
1422 C.E. Austria Expulsion
1424 C.E. Fribourg & Zurich Expulsion
1426 C.E. Cologne Expulsion
1431 C.E. Southern Germany Jews Burned Alive
1432 C.E. Savory Expulsion
1438 C.E. Mainz Expulsion
1439 C.E. Augsburg Expulsion
1449 C.E. Toledo Public Torture &. Burnings
1456 C.E. Bavaria Expulsion
1453 C.E. Franconia Expulsion
1453 C.E. Breslau Expulsion
1454 C.E. Wurzburg Expulsion
1463 C.E. Cracow Mob Attack
1473 C.E. Andalusia Mob Attack
1480 C.E. Venice Jews Burned Alive
1481 C.E. Seville Stake Burnings
1484 C.E. Cuidad Real, Guadalupe, Saragossa & Teruel Jews Burned Alive
1485 C.E. Vincenza (Italy) Expulsion
1486 C.E. Toledo Jews Burned Alive
1488 C.E. Toledo Stake Burnings
1490 C.E. Toledo Public Executions
1491 C.E. Astorga Public Torture & Execution
1492 C.E. Spain Expulsion
1495 C.E. Lithuania Expulsion
1497 C.E. Portugal Expulsion
1499 C.E. Germany Expulsion
1506 C.E. Lisbon Mob Attack
1510 C.E. Berlin Public Torture & Execution
1514 C.E. Strasbourg Expulsion
1519 C.E. Regensburg Expulsion
1539 C.E. Cracow & Portugal Stake Burnings
1540 C.E. Naples Expulsion
1542 C.E. Bohemia Expulsion
1550 C.E. Genoa Expulsion
1551 C.E. Bavaria Expulsion
1555 C.E. Pesaro Expulsion
1556 C.E. Sokhachev (Poland) Public Torture & Execution
1559 C.E. Austria Expulsion
1561 C.E. Prague Expulsion
1567 C.E. Wurzburg Expulsion
1569 C.E. Papal States Expulsion
1571 C.E. Brandenburg Expulsion
1582 C.E. Netherlands Expulsion
1593 C.E. Brunswick Expulsion
1597 C.E. Cremona, Pavia & Lodi Expulsion
1614 C.E. Frankfort Expulsion
1615 C.E. Worms Expulsion
1619 C.E. Kiev Expulsion
1635 C.E. Vilna Mob Attack
1637 C.E. Cracow Public Torture & Execution
1647 C.E. Lisbon Jews Burned Alive
1648 C.E. Poland 1/3 of Jewry Slaughtered
1649 C.E. Ukraine Expulsion
1649 C.E. Hamburg Expulsion
1652 C.E. Lisbon Stake Burnings
1654 C.E. Little Russia Expulsion
1656 C.E. Lithuania Expulsion
1660 C.E. Seville Jews Burned Alive
1663 C.E Cracow Public Torture &. Execution
1664 C.E. Lemberg Mob Attack
1669 C.E. Oran (North Africa) Expulsion
1670 C.E. Vienna Expulsion
1671 C.E. Minsk Mob Attacks
1681 C.E. Vilna Mob Attacks
1682 C.E. Cracow Mob Attacks
1687 C.E. Posen Mob Attacks
1712 C.E. Sandomir Expulsion
1727 C.E. Russia Expulsion
1738 C.E. Wurtemburg Expulsion
1740 C.E. Liule Russia Expulsion
1744 C.E Bohemia Expulsion
1744 C.E. Livonia Expulsion
1745 C.E. Moravia Expulsion
1753 C.E. Kovad (Lithuania) Expulsion
1757 C.E. Kamenetz Talmud Burning
1761 C.E. Bordeaux Expulsion
1768 C.E. Kiev 3,000 Jews Slaughtered
1772 C.E. Russia Expulsion
1775 C.E. Warsaw Expulsion
1789 C.E. Alsace Expulsion
1801 C.E. Bucharest Mob Attack
1804 C.E. Russian Villages Expulsion
1808 C.E. Russian Countryside Expulsion
1815 C.E. Lubeck & Bremen Expulsion
1820 C.E. Bremes Expulsion
1843 C.E. Austria & Prussia Expulsion
1850 C.E. New York City 500 People, Led by Police, Attacked & Wrecked Jewish Synagogue
1862 C.E. Area under General Grant's Jurisdiction in the United States Expulsion
1866 C.E Galatz (Romania) Expulsion
1871 C.E. Odena Mob Attack
1887 C.E. Slovakia Mob Attacks
1897 C.E. Kantakuzenka (Russia) Mob Attacks
1898 C.E. Rennes (France) Mob Attack
1899 C.E. Nicholayev Mob Attack
1900 C.E. Konitz (Prussia) Mob Attack
1902 C.E. Poland Widespread Pogroms
1904 C.E. Manchuria, Kiev & Volhynia Widespread Pogroms
1905 C.E. Zhitomir (Yolhynia) Mob Attacks
1919 C.E Bavaria Expulsion
1915 C.E. Georgia (U.S.A.) Leo Frank Lynched
1919 C.E. Prague Wide Spread Pogroms
1920 C.E. Munich & Breslau Mob Attacks
1922 C.E. Boston, MA Lawrence Lowell, President of Harvard, calls for Quota Restrictions on Jewish Admission
1926 C.E. Uzbekistan Pogrom
1928 C.E. Hungary Widespread Anti-Semitic Riots on University Campuses
1929 C.E. Lemberg (Poland) Mob Attacks
1930 C.E. Berlin Mob Attack
1933 C.E. Bucharest Mob Attacks
1938-45 C.E. Europe Holocaust


OY VEY! Look at all those anti-Semites!

[The Seer]

Hi Seer

Why don't you move to Haifa? I understand there's a few new vacancies opened for brave settlers and fulfillers, etc. Euros only, however.

Yup, Israel about to surrender in 3......2......1.........

Then again, maybe it'll have to be played out....

[The Seer]

DATE PLACE EVENT
250 C.E. Canhage Expulsion
224 C.E. Italy Forced Conversion
325 C.E. Jerusalem Expulsion
351 C.E Persia Book Burning
357 C.E. Italy Property Confiscation
379 C.E. Milan Synagogue Burning
415 C.E. Alexandria Expulsion
418 C.E. Minorca Forced Conversion
469 C.E. Ipahan Holocaust
489 C.E. Antioch Synagogue Burning
506 C.E. Daphne Synagogue Burning
519 C.E. Ravenna Synagogue Burning
554 C.E. Diocese of Clement (France) Expulsion
561 C.E. Diocese of Uzes (France) Expulsion
582 C.E Merovingia Forced Conversion
612 C.E. Visigoth Spain Expulsion
628 C.E. Byzantium Forced Conversion
629 C.E. Merovingia Forced Conversion
633 C.E. Toledo Forced Conversion
638 C.E. Toledo Stake Burnings
642 C.E. Visigothic Empire Expulsion
653 C.E. Toledo Expulsion
681 C.E. Spain Forced Conversion
693 C.E. Toledo Jews Enslaved
722 C.E. Byzantium Judaism Outlawed
855 C.E. Italy Expulsion
876 C.E. Sens Expulsion
897 C.E. Narbonne Land Confiscation
945 C.E. Venice Ban on Sea Travel
1009 C.E. Orleans Massacre
1012 C.E. Rouen, Limoges & Rome Massacre
1012 C.E. Mayence Expulsion
1021 C.E. Rome Jews Burned Alive
1063 C.E. Spain Massacre
1095 C.E. Lorraine Massacre
1096 C.E. Northern France & Germany 1/3 of Jewish Population Massacred
1096 C.E. Hungary Massacre
1096 C.E. Ralisbon Massacre
1099 C.E. Jerusalem Jews Burned Alive
1100 C.E. Kiev Pogrom
1140 C.E. Germany Massacres
1146 C.E. Rhine Valley Massacre
1147 C.E. Wurzburg Massacre
1147 C.E. Belitz (Germany) Jews Burned Alive
1147 C.E. Carenton, Ramenu & Sully (France) Massacres
1171 C.E. Blois Stake Burnings
1181 C.E. France Expulsion
1181 C.E. England Property Confiscation
1188 C.E. London & York Mob Attacks
1190 C.E. Norfolk Jews Burned Alive
1191 C.E. Bray (France) Jews Burned Alive
1195 C.E. France Property Confiscation
1209 C.E. Beziers Massacre
1212 C.E. Spain Rioting and blood bath against the Jews of Toledo.
1215 C.E. Rome Lateran Council of Rome decrees that Jews must wear the "badge of shame" in all Christian countries. Jews are denied all public sector employment, and are burdened with extra taxes.
1215 C.E. Toulouse (France) Mass Arrests
1218 C.E. England Jews Forced to Wear Badges
1231 C.E. Rome Inquisition Established
1236 C.E. France Forced Conversion/Massacre
1239 C.E. London Massacre & Property Confiscation
1240 C.E. Austria Property confiscation. Jews either imprisoned, converted, expelled, or burned.
1240 C.E. France Talmud Confiscated
1240 C.E. England Book Burning
1240 C.E. Spain Forced Conversion
1242 C.E. Paris Talmud Burned
1244 C.E. Oxford Mob Attacks
1255 C.E. England Blood libel in Lincoln results in the burning / torture of many Jews & public hangings.
1261 C.E. Canterbury Mob Attacks
1262 C.E. London Mob Attacks
1264 C.E. London Mob Attacks
1264 C.E. Germany Council of Vienna declares that all Jews must wear a "pointed dunce cap." Thousands murdered.
1267 C.E. Vienna Jews Forced to Wear Horned Hats
1270 C.E. Weissenberg, Magdeburg, Arnstadt, Coblenz, Singzig, and Erfurt Jews Burned Alive
1270 C.E. England The libel of the "counterfeit coins" - all Jewish men, women and children in England imprisoned. Hundreds are hung.
1276 C.E. Bavaria Expulsion
1278 C.E. Genoa (Spain) Mob Attacks
1279 C.E. Hungary & Poland The Council of Offon denies Jews the right to all civic positions. The Jews of Hungary & Poland are forced to wear the "red badge of shame."
1283 C.E. Mayence & Bacharach Mob Attacks
1285 C.E. Munich Jews Burned Alive
1290 C.E. England King Edward I issues an edict banishing all Jews from England. Many drowned.
1291 C.E. France The Jewish refugees from England are promptly expelled from France.
1292 C.E. Italy Forced conversions & expulsion of the Italian Jewish community.
1298 C.E. Germany The libel of the "Desecrated Host" is perpetrated against the Jews of Germany. Approximately 150 Jewish communities undergo forced conversion.
1298 C.E. Franconia, Bavaria & Austria Reindfel's Decree is propagated against the Jews of Franconia and Bavarai. Riots against these Jewish communities, as well as those in Austria, result in the massacre of 100,000 Jews over a six-month period.
1306 C.E. France Expulsion
1308 C.E. Strasbourg Jews Burned Alive
1320 C.E. Toulouse & Perpigon 120 Communities Massacred & Talmud Burned
1321 C.E. Teruel Public Executions
1328 C.E. Estella 5,000 Jews Slaughtered
1348 C.E. France & Spain Jews Burned Alive
1348 C.E. Switzerland Expulsion
1349 C.E. Worms, Strasbourg, Oppenheim, Mayence, Erfurt, Bavaria & Swabia Jews Burned Alive
1349 C.E. Heilbronn (Germany) Expulsion
1349 C.E. Hungary Expulsion
1354 C.E. Castile (Spain) 12,000 Jews Slaughtered
1368 C.E. Toledo 8,000 Jews Slaughtered
1370 C.E. Majorca., Penignon & Barcelona Mob Attack
1377 C.E. Huesca (Spain) Jews Burned Alive
1380 C.E. Paris Mob Attack
1384 C.E. Nordlingen Mass Murder
1388 C.E. Strasbourg Expulsion
1389 C.E. Prague Mass Slaughter & Book Burning
1391 C.E. Castille, Toledo, Madrid, Seville, Cordova, Cuenca & Barcelona Forced Conversions & Mass Murder
1394 C.E. Germany Expulsion
1394 C.E. France Expulsion
1399 C.E. Posen (Poland) Jews Burned Alive
1400 C.E. Prague Stake Burnings
1407 C.E. Cracow Mob Attack
1415 C.E. Rome Talmud Confiscated
1422 C.E. Austria Jews Burned Alive
1422 C.E. Austria Expulsion
1424 C.E. Fribourg & Zurich Expulsion
1426 C.E. Cologne Expulsion
1431 C.E. Southern Germany Jews Burned Alive
1432 C.E. Savory Expulsion
1438 C.E. Mainz Expulsion
1439 C.E. Augsburg Expulsion
1449 C.E. Toledo Public Torture &. Burnings
1456 C.E. Bavaria Expulsion
1453 C.E. Franconia Expulsion
1453 C.E. Breslau Expulsion
1454 C.E. Wurzburg Expulsion
1463 C.E. Cracow Mob Attack
1473 C.E. Andalusia Mob Attack
1480 C.E. Venice Jews Burned Alive
1481 C.E. Seville Stake Burnings
1484 C.E. Cuidad Real, Guadalupe, Saragossa & Teruel Jews Burned Alive
1485 C.E. Vincenza (Italy) Expulsion
1486 C.E. Toledo Jews Burned Alive
1488 C.E. Toledo Stake Burnings
1490 C.E. Toledo Public Executions
1491 C.E. Astorga Public Torture & Execution
1492 C.E. Spain Expulsion
1495 C.E. Lithuania Expulsion
1497 C.E. Portugal Expulsion
1499 C.E. Germany Expulsion
1506 C.E. Lisbon Mob Attack
1510 C.E. Berlin Public Torture & Execution
1514 C.E. Strasbourg Expulsion
1519 C.E. Regensburg Expulsion
1539 C.E. Cracow & Portugal Stake Burnings
1540 C.E. Naples Expulsion
1542 C.E. Bohemia Expulsion
1550 C.E. Genoa Expulsion
1551 C.E. Bavaria Expulsion
1555 C.E. Pesaro Expulsion
1556 C.E. Sokhachev (Poland) Public Torture & Execution
1559 C.E. Austria Expulsion
1561 C.E. Prague Expulsion
1567 C.E. Wurzburg Expulsion
1569 C.E. Papal States Expulsion
1571 C.E. Brandenburg Expulsion
1582 C.E. Netherlands Expulsion
1593 C.E. Brunswick Expulsion
1597 C.E. Cremona, Pavia & Lodi Expulsion
1614 C.E. Frankfort Expulsion
1615 C.E. Worms Expulsion
1619 C.E. Kiev Expulsion
1635 C.E. Vilna Mob Attack
1637 C.E. Cracow Public Torture & Execution
1647 C.E. Lisbon Jews Burned Alive
1648 C.E. Poland 1/3 of Jewry Slaughtered
1649 C.E. Ukraine Expulsion
1649 C.E. Hamburg Expulsion
1652 C.E. Lisbon Stake Burnings
1654 C.E. Little Russia Expulsion
1656 C.E. Lithuania Expulsion
1660 C.E. Seville Jews Burned Alive
1663 C.E Cracow Public Torture &. Execution
1664 C.E. Lemberg Mob Attack
1669 C.E. Oran (North Africa) Expulsion
1670 C.E. Vienna Expulsion
1671 C.E. Minsk Mob Attacks
1681 C.E. Vilna Mob Attacks
1682 C.E. Cracow Mob Attacks
1687 C.E. Posen Mob Attacks
1712 C.E. Sandomir Expulsion
1727 C.E. Russia Expulsion
1738 C.E. Wurtemburg Expulsion
1740 C.E. Liule Russia Expulsion
1744 C.E Bohemia Expulsion
1744 C.E. Livonia Expulsion
1745 C.E. Moravia Expulsion
1753 C.E. Kovad (Lithuania) Expulsion
1757 C.E. Kamenetz Talmud Burning
1761 C.E. Bordeaux Expulsion
1768 C.E. Kiev 3,000 Jews Slaughtered
1772 C.E. Russia Expulsion
1775 C.E. Warsaw Expulsion
1789 C.E. Alsace Expulsion
1801 C.E. Bucharest Mob Attack
1804 C.E. Russian Villages Expulsion
1808 C.E. Russian Countryside Expulsion
1815 C.E. Lubeck & Bremen Expulsion
1820 C.E. Bremes Expulsion
1843 C.E. Austria & Prussia Expulsion
1850 C.E. New York City 500 People, Led by Police, Attacked & Wrecked Jewish Synagogue
1862 C.E. Area under General Grant's Jurisdiction in the United States Expulsion
1866 C.E Galatz (Romania) Expulsion
1871 C.E. Odena Mob Attack
1887 C.E. Slovakia Mob Attacks
1897 C.E. Kantakuzenka (Russia) Mob Attacks
1898 C.E. Rennes (France) Mob Attack
1899 C.E. Nicholayev Mob Attack
1900 C.E. Konitz (Prussia) Mob Attack
1902 C.E. Poland Widespread Pogroms
1904 C.E. Manchuria, Kiev & Volhynia Widespread Pogroms
1905 C.E. Zhitomir (Yolhynia) Mob Attacks
1919 C.E Bavaria Expulsion
1915 C.E. Georgia (U.S.A.) Leo Frank Lynched
1919 C.E. Prague Wide Spread Pogroms
1920 C.E. Munich & Breslau Mob Attacks
1922 C.E. Boston, MA Lawrence Lowell, President of Harvard, calls for Quota Restrictions on Jewish Admission
1926 C.E. Uzbekistan Pogrom
1928 C.E. Hungary Widespread Anti-Semitic Riots on University Campuses
1929 C.E. Lemberg (Poland) Mob Attacks
1930 C.E. Berlin Mob Attack
1933 C.E. Bucharest Mob Attacks
1938-45 C.E. Europe Holocaust


OY VEY! Look at all those anti-Semites!

AND I'M STILL! STILL! AN IMPOTENT, NON-PLAYING CANADIAN1

[Tom In VA]

I got all your points Van, trust me. You apparently cannot grasp mine.

Which is basically,

To me, nope, that's just not going to work.

Doesn't really register on God's concern o' meter. I know you probably think this God should check in with you once in awhile and find out if you concur how He goes about in His world, but I'm sorry to inform you, it doesn't work that way.

That is, if you believe in God. If you don't then it doesn't really matter.

[Bizzarofelice]

Show me where God had any hand in any of it.

[poptart]

Van,

God originally scattered the Jews from the land that he promised Abram (the Jewish people) because Abram did not stay in the covenant w/ God.

You can look at the book of Genesis 15 and it gives the account of what happened.
Verse 13 is God telling Abram what is going to happen because of his disobedience.

Genesis 13: And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years


None the less, after the Jews were enslaved for 400 yrs God brought His people BACK to the land ...... because that is what HE PROMISED in Genesis 12:1-3, Gen 15:7. etc.

Later (around 70 A.D.), God scattered them again, and once again it was because they failed to recognize Him, and failed to stay in His covenant. This time the new covenant, Jesus Christ.

Read this closely from Deuteronomy, if you would.

Deuteronomy 64: And the LORD shall scatter thee among all people, from the one end of the earth even unto the other; and there thou shalt serve other gods, which neither thou nor thy fathers have known, even wood and stone.
65: And among these nations shalt thou find no ease, neither shall the sole of thy foot have rest: but the LORD shall give thee there a trembling heart, and failing of eyes, and sorrow of mind:
66: And thy life shall hang in doubt before thee; and thou shalt fear day and night, and shalt have none assurance of thy life

Looks like God PROMISED that the Jewish people would have hella problems, to say the least, no .... ?

The 'suffering' of the Jewish people is exactly what God SAID would happen to them when they did not stay in the covenant.

Why anyone (you) would wring their hands over God's treatment of the Jewish people is senseless.

God kept HIS end of the bargain ...... and then some ....a LOT more.

The Jews suffered in exile for about 2000 yrs, until God FULFILLED HIS WORD ONCE AGAIN by bringing them back to the land he promised.

You say the UN did it.
Have your take.
GOD did it.

God bats 1.000.

Man's problems are the result of himself not coming close to batting 1.000......to say the very least.

History shows that the reason for Jewish suffering has ALWAYS been a result of them leaving the covenant.

Stay in the covenant, ........ peace, happiness, prosperity.
Leave the covenant, ....... anxiety, suffering, colonization.



Where did man get the idea that it's a good idea to leave the covenant w/God Almighty .... ?

Genesis 3:6: And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.


The problem of this world started right there, make no mistake.




Dins, if you want to discuss the 'laws' of Deuteronomy then start a new thread about it.
It's off the topic here.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

I'm sure the Jews are thrilled at your explanation to them that Jesus is coming back to save them.

Break out the party hats.

[PSUFAN]

To me, a "religious zealot" is someone who insists that a hunk of land is "theirs". Who says so?* Besides military might on loan, who says so?




*GOD, right? Ergo...zealotry.

Who say's that your house, apartment, or more likely gov't funded project is your's?

The bank, the appartment locator, HUD?

Why don't you give your domecile back to the descendant of the first humanoid that sat foot on your parcel of dirt?

Better yet, why don't you grow yourself a set of nuts, demand a refund for that worthless piece of paper that Pathetically Stupid University gave you, purchase a tamborine and a toga, and beg for change at the airport while housing your wife and kids under the bridge?

Passion at its finest!

He's done nothing but underscore the point I've been making. The only thing that defines ownership of land is force. Zealots, both Zionist and Muslim, both claim Divine Land Grants, and their aims necessitate the total elimination of their foes.

[PSUFAN]

My position was always clear. You're just to stupid to get it.

hoooo boy.



Damn, RACK Van!

[Mississippi Neck]

DATE PLACE EVENT
250 C.E. Canhage Expulsion
224 C.E. Italy Forced Conversion
325 C.E. Jerusalem Expulsion
351 C.E Persia Book Burning
357 C.E. Italy Property Confiscation
379 C.E. Milan Synagogue Burning
415 C.E. Alexandria Expulsion
418 C.E. Minorca Forced Conversion
469 C.E. Ipahan Holocaust
489 C.E. Antioch Synagogue Burning
506 C.E. Daphne Synagogue Burning
519 C.E. Ravenna Synagogue Burning
554 C.E. Diocese of Clement (France) Expulsion
561 C.E. Diocese of Uzes (France) Expulsion
582 C.E Merovingia Forced Conversion
612 C.E. Visigoth Spain Expulsion
628 C.E. Byzantium Forced Conversion
629 C.E. Merovingia Forced Conversion
633 C.E. Toledo Forced Conversion
638 C.E. Toledo Stake Burnings
642 C.E. Visigothic Empire Expulsion
653 C.E. Toledo Expulsion
681 C.E. Spain Forced Conversion
693 C.E. Toledo Jews Enslaved
722 C.E. Byzantium Judaism Outlawed
855 C.E. Italy Expulsion
876 C.E. Sens Expulsion
897 C.E. Narbonne Land Confiscation
945 C.E. Venice Ban on Sea Travel
1009 C.E. Orleans Massacre
1012 C.E. Rouen, Limoges & Rome Massacre
1012 C.E. Mayence Expulsion
1021 C.E. Rome Jews Burned Alive
1063 C.E. Spain Massacre
1095 C.E. Lorraine Massacre
1096 C.E. Northern France & Germany 1/3 of Jewish Population Massacred
1096 C.E. Hungary Massacre
1096 C.E. Ralisbon Massacre
1099 C.E. Jerusalem Jews Burned Alive
1100 C.E. Kiev Pogrom
1140 C.E. Germany Massacres
1146 C.E. Rhine Valley Massacre
1147 C.E. Wurzburg Massacre
1147 C.E. Belitz (Germany) Jews Burned Alive
1147 C.E. Carenton, Ramenu & Sully (France) Massacres
1171 C.E. Blois Stake Burnings
1181 C.E. France Expulsion
1181 C.E. England Property Confiscation
1188 C.E. London & York Mob Attacks
1190 C.E. Norfolk Jews Burned Alive
1191 C.E. Bray (France) Jews Burned Alive
1195 C.E. France Property Confiscation
1209 C.E. Beziers Massacre
1212 C.E. Spain Rioting and blood bath against the Jews of Toledo.
1215 C.E. Rome Lateran Council of Rome decrees that Jews must wear the "badge of shame" in all Christian countries. Jews are denied all public sector employment, and are burdened with extra taxes.
1215 C.E. Toulouse (France) Mass Arrests
1218 C.E. England Jews Forced to Wear Badges
1231 C.E. Rome Inquisition Established
1236 C.E. France Forced Conversion/Massacre
1239 C.E. London Massacre & Property Confiscation
1240 C.E. Austria Property confiscation. Jews either imprisoned, converted, expelled, or burned.
1240 C.E. France Talmud Confiscated
1240 C.E. England Book Burning
1240 C.E. Spain Forced Conversion
1242 C.E. Paris Talmud Burned
1244 C.E. Oxford Mob Attacks
1255 C.E. England Blood libel in Lincoln results in the burning / torture of many Jews & public hangings.
1261 C.E. Canterbury Mob Attacks
1262 C.E. London Mob Attacks
1264 C.E. London Mob Attacks
1264 C.E. Germany Council of Vienna declares that all Jews must wear a "pointed dunce cap." Thousands murdered.
1267 C.E. Vienna Jews Forced to Wear Horned Hats
1270 C.E. Weissenberg, Magdeburg, Arnstadt, Coblenz, Singzig, and Erfurt Jews Burned Alive
1270 C.E. England The libel of the "counterfeit coins" - all Jewish men, women and children in England imprisoned. Hundreds are hung.
1276 C.E. Bavaria Expulsion
1278 C.E. Genoa (Spain) Mob Attacks
1279 C.E. Hungary & Poland The Council of Offon denies Jews the right to all civic positions. The Jews of Hungary & Poland are forced to wear the "red badge of shame."
1283 C.E. Mayence & Bacharach Mob Attacks
1285 C.E. Munich Jews Burned Alive
1290 C.E. England King Edward I issues an edict banishing all Jews from England. Many drowned.
1291 C.E. France The Jewish refugees from England are promptly expelled from France.
1292 C.E. Italy Forced conversions & expulsion of the Italian Jewish community.
1298 C.E. Germany The libel of the "Desecrated Host" is perpetrated against the Jews of Germany. Approximately 150 Jewish communities undergo forced conversion.
1298 C.E. Franconia, Bavaria & Austria Reindfel's Decree is propagated against the Jews of Franconia and Bavarai. Riots against these Jewish communities, as well as those in Austria, result in the massacre of 100,000 Jews over a six-month period.
1306 C.E. France Expulsion
1308 C.E. Strasbourg Jews Burned Alive
1320 C.E. Toulouse & Perpigon 120 Communities Massacred & Talmud Burned
1321 C.E. Teruel Public Executions
1328 C.E. Estella 5,000 Jews Slaughtered
1348 C.E. France & Spain Jews Burned Alive
1348 C.E. Switzerland Expulsion
1349 C.E. Worms, Strasbourg, Oppenheim, Mayence, Erfurt, Bavaria & Swabia Jews Burned Alive
1349 C.E. Heilbronn (Germany) Expulsion
1349 C.E. Hungary Expulsion
1354 C.E. Castile (Spain) 12,000 Jews Slaughtered
1368 C.E. Toledo 8,000 Jews Slaughtered
1370 C.E. Majorca., Penignon & Barcelona Mob Attack
1377 C.E. Huesca (Spain) Jews Burned Alive
1380 C.E. Paris Mob Attack
1384 C.E. Nordlingen Mass Murder
1388 C.E. Strasbourg Expulsion
1389 C.E. Prague Mass Slaughter & Book Burning
1391 C.E. Castille, Toledo, Madrid, Seville, Cordova, Cuenca & Barcelona Forced Conversions & Mass Murder
1394 C.E. Germany Expulsion
1394 C.E. France Expulsion
1399 C.E. Posen (Poland) Jews Burned Alive
1400 C.E. Prague Stake Burnings
1407 C.E. Cracow Mob Attack
1415 C.E. Rome Talmud Confiscated
1422 C.E. Austria Jews Burned Alive
1422 C.E. Austria Expulsion
1424 C.E. Fribourg & Zurich Expulsion
1426 C.E. Cologne Expulsion
1431 C.E. Southern Germany Jews Burned Alive
1432 C.E. Savory Expulsion
1438 C.E. Mainz Expulsion
1439 C.E. Augsburg Expulsion
1449 C.E. Toledo Public Torture &. Burnings
1456 C.E. Bavaria Expulsion
1453 C.E. Franconia Expulsion
1453 C.E. Breslau Expulsion
1454 C.E. Wurzburg Expulsion
1463 C.E. Cracow Mob Attack
1473 C.E. Andalusia Mob Attack
1480 C.E. Venice Jews Burned Alive
1481 C.E. Seville Stake Burnings
1484 C.E. Cuidad Real, Guadalupe, Saragossa & Teruel Jews Burned Alive
1485 C.E. Vincenza (Italy) Expulsion
1486 C.E. Toledo Jews Burned Alive
1488 C.E. Toledo Stake Burnings
1490 C.E. Toledo Public Executions
1491 C.E. Astorga Public Torture & Execution
1492 C.E. Spain Expulsion
1495 C.E. Lithuania Expulsion
1497 C.E. Portugal Expulsion
1499 C.E. Germany Expulsion
1506 C.E. Lisbon Mob Attack
1510 C.E. Berlin Public Torture & Execution
1514 C.E. Strasbourg Expulsion
1519 C.E. Regensburg Expulsion
1539 C.E. Cracow & Portugal Stake Burnings
1540 C.E. Naples Expulsion
1542 C.E. Bohemia Expulsion
1550 C.E. Genoa Expulsion
1551 C.E. Bavaria Expulsion
1555 C.E. Pesaro Expulsion
1556 C.E. Sokhachev (Poland) Public Torture & Execution
1559 C.E. Austria Expulsion
1561 C.E. Prague Expulsion
1567 C.E. Wurzburg Expulsion
1569 C.E. Papal States Expulsion
1571 C.E. Brandenburg Expulsion
1582 C.E. Netherlands Expulsion
1593 C.E. Brunswick Expulsion
1597 C.E. Cremona, Pavia & Lodi Expulsion
1614 C.E. Frankfort Expulsion
1615 C.E. Worms Expulsion
1619 C.E. Kiev Expulsion
1635 C.E. Vilna Mob Attack
1637 C.E. Cracow Public Torture & Execution
1647 C.E. Lisbon Jews Burned Alive
1648 C.E. Poland 1/3 of Jewry Slaughtered
1649 C.E. Ukraine Expulsion
1649 C.E. Hamburg Expulsion
1652 C.E. Lisbon Stake Burnings
1654 C.E. Little Russia Expulsion
1656 C.E. Lithuania Expulsion
1660 C.E. Seville Jews Burned Alive
1663 C.E Cracow Public Torture &. Execution
1664 C.E. Lemberg Mob Attack
1669 C.E. Oran (North Africa) Expulsion
1670 C.E. Vienna Expulsion
1671 C.E. Minsk Mob Attacks
1681 C.E. Vilna Mob Attacks
1682 C.E. Cracow Mob Attacks
1687 C.E. Posen Mob Attacks
1712 C.E. Sandomir Expulsion
1727 C.E. Russia Expulsion
1738 C.E. Wurtemburg Expulsion
1740 C.E. Liule Russia Expulsion
1744 C.E Bohemia Expulsion
1744 C.E. Livonia Expulsion
1745 C.E. Moravia Expulsion
1753 C.E. Kovad (Lithuania) Expulsion
1757 C.E. Kamenetz Talmud Burning
1761 C.E. Bordeaux Expulsion
1768 C.E. Kiev 3,000 Jews Slaughtered
1772 C.E. Russia Expulsion
1775 C.E. Warsaw Expulsion
1789 C.E. Alsace Expulsion
1801 C.E. Bucharest Mob Attack
1804 C.E. Russian Villages Expulsion
1808 C.E. Russian Countryside Expulsion
1815 C.E. Lubeck & Bremen Expulsion
1820 C.E. Bremes Expulsion
1843 C.E. Austria & Prussia Expulsion
1850 C.E. New York City 500 People, Led by Police, Attacked & Wrecked Jewish Synagogue
1862 C.E. Area under General Grant's Jurisdiction in the United States Expulsion
1866 C.E Galatz (Romania) Expulsion
1871 C.E. Odena Mob Attack
1887 C.E. Slovakia Mob Attacks
1897 C.E. Kantakuzenka (Russia) Mob Attacks
1898 C.E. Rennes (France) Mob Attack
1899 C.E. Nicholayev Mob Attack
1900 C.E. Konitz (Prussia) Mob Attack
1902 C.E. Poland Widespread Pogroms
1904 C.E. Manchuria, Kiev & Volhynia Widespread Pogroms
1905 C.E. Zhitomir (Yolhynia) Mob Attacks
1919 C.E Bavaria Expulsion
1915 C.E. Georgia (U.S.A.) Leo Frank Lynched
1919 C.E. Prague Wide Spread Pogroms
1920 C.E. Munich & Breslau Mob Attacks
1922 C.E. Boston, MA Lawrence Lowell, President of Harvard, calls for Quota Restrictions on Jewish Admission
1926 C.E. Uzbekistan Pogrom
1928 C.E. Hungary Widespread Anti-Semitic Riots on University Campuses
1929 C.E. Lemberg (Poland) Mob Attacks
1930 C.E. Berlin Mob Attack
1933 C.E. Bucharest Mob Attacks
1938-45 C.E. Europe Holocaust


OY VEY! Look at all those anti-Semites!

And here I thought the expulsion in Kiev was 1620, not 1619. Thanks for that.

[PSUFAN]

You see, I'm down with basic, simple Christianity. The Golden Rule, essentially. Trying to be a good, decent human being, and getting along with your neighbors...sure, sure.

When we get into "God says this land is mine, and it's righteous to kill the naysayers!!!"...well, that veers away from basic Christian tenets, so I'm not down with that.

As for God's Plan...horseshit, I say. If God's plan is to pit man against man, so that a tiny nation can constantly be at odds with its neighbors, and only exist due to the massive military aid of the US taxpayer...well, it's time for you guys to get a new Golden Calf, IMHO.

[poptart]

If God's plan is to pit man against man, .......

That's not God's plan.

Man's idea is to fight.

Why ... ?


Genesis 3:6: And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.


Leave God's grace and all hell breaks lose.

[Van]

I got all your points Van, trust me. You apparently cannot grasp mine.

Which is basically,

To me, nope, that's just not going to work.

Doesn't really register on God's concern o' meter. I know you probably think this God should check in with you once in awhile and find out if you concur how He goes about in His world, but I'm sorry to inform you, it doesn't work that way.

That is, if you believe in God. If you don't then it doesn't really matter.

Pretty certain most of the 6,000,000 Jews that got slaughtered in a short period of time believed in God. Pretty sure they attempted to check in him with quite frequently, especially there towards the end when even a decent bowl of soup from God or one of his minions would've been nice.

Apparently God wasn't in much of a conversing mood.

Either that, or he just really has it in for his "Chosen People" so if he did deign to respond to their prayers his answer must've always been, "Bwaaa!.....Fuck off! Oh, hey kid, here's a tip for ya': Start practicing holding your breath. Get really good at it. Might come in handy here pretty soon for ya'...Now, if you'll excuse me, I gotta run. It's a never ending job, dontchaknow, lavishing Arab royalty with boundless benevolence..."

[Tom In VA]

Van,

Yes.

If you're notion of God is some sort of Chris Angel or David Blaine type stunt artist perhaps.


Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachtchani?

[Van]

poptart, there's no way NOT to leave the covenant. There's no way NOT to run afoul of God's grace.

Why?

Because we're human. We're imperfect. We're going to fuck up. It's what we do. It's what we have to do, otherwise we'd be Al DiMeola.

To say man earned thousands of years of misery and constant warfare because of a fable about some mischievous apple eatin' slunt, well, christ...

Maybe God should've done a better job when he created us. From your description of the deal he made for the Jews it seems like he flat out set 'em up to fail. What'd they ever to do him that he's been such a heavy handed Indian giver all these years??

Why did the Jews get saddled with that stupid promise, a promise that entailed thousands of years of garbage for every time they "broke the covenant"?

Why didn't the Swedes get it?

For that matter, how come the Swiss got such a good deal from God? Doesn't seem like they've had any hell to pay at all and they're some of the least covenant mindin' hedonists you'll ever slap your cock across. Did they just go to a different Fate Broker, one without God's usurious interests rates?

By your description God comes off as Junior Soprano and the Jews were just a bunch of neighborhood crackheads who were habitually late with the vig...

[RadioFan]

Because we're human. We're imperfect. We're going to fuck up. It's what we do. It's what we have to do, otherwise we'd be Al DiMeola.

Excellent.

[poptart]

poptart, there's no way NOT to leave the covenant. There's no way NOT to run afoul of God's grace.

There is a way.


Romans 8:2: For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.


Take the Christ and you're in God's covenant.
Completely within God's grace.

It is finished.

[The Seer]

He's done nothing but underscore the point I've been making. The only thing that defines ownership of land is force. Zealots, both Zionist and Muslim, both claim Divine Land Grants, and their aims necessitate the total elimination of their foes.

Well, one side wants to just live in peace. The other side wants to eliminate both the country and the people. Either you are a troll or are having some kind of acid flashback if you believe what you type....I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt....troll......

[warren]

You see, I'm down with basic, simple Christianity. The Golden Rule, essentially. Trying to be a good, decent human being, and getting along with your neighbors...sure, sure.

When we get into "God says this land is mine, and it's righteous to kill the naysayers!!!"...well, that veers away from basic Christian tenets, so I'm not down with that.

As for God's Plan...horseshit, I say. If God's plan is to pit man against man, so that a tiny nation can constantly be at odds with its neighbors, and only exist due to the massive military aid of the US taxpayer...well, it's time for you guys to get a new Golden Calf, IMHO.

Look dude, God gave Man freewill, it's greatest gift ever given, if everyone walked around like Jesus then no body get laid, titty dancers would not exist, and reproduction would thrown out the window because I don't I flying fuck the Da Vinci Code, Jesus, according to the Bible did not take a woman.

So now that we've all the Shaman shit out of the way let's get down to the nitty gritty. The Isrealitis settled there just like your gimpy Goomba family settled in Pennsylvania, a place that you had no God given right to, yet you now want your kids to go to school, you want wife to keep her head attached to her shoulders and you want to eek out whatever living it is that you deservedly earned.

Why do you liberal no nothings have to attach a different set of rules to the Isrealites because a because a book that you probably don't even believe in say's it was their chosen land to them wanting the same things as you?

Dude, I pray, I want to believe, some days I do, some days I just plain don't, however, when people are just killing people even after they've agreed to every demand these murderous scum have demanded and are still murdered I find it beyond the point of ignorance for somebody like you to continue attack based on Biblical Scripture.

For fucks sake bro, they pulled back, the stopped the settlements, they are trying run a democracy, who the fuck were the harming to begin this?

I don't think you're an anti-semite, I just you've mislead by the same type of people that said all mvscals theives and crack dealers and them damn jews they're scheisters and only look out for themselves.

I tell you what Mr. PSU, the day that your boy, if he's got bigger nuts then you puts on a uniform and is kidnapped, or the day that your wife hits the Wal-Mart for some KY and gets spine snapped, let's see exactly how you expect our Military to react.

I hope you visualize what I just told you.

It ain't about the Bible, it's about survival.

Pull your head out of your ass, I don't know why that dumb fucking President of ours hasn't just kicked the fuck out of all these morons, instead he's sipping Russian KAFFEE with a fucking KGB and tiny little minions like you are blaming the jews for bombing the fuck out madmen that blow up busses that MY WIFE takes to work everyday.

WAKEY WAKEY dumbass!

This place sucks.

This shit is coming your way, and you're to enthralled by delivering milk to even notice, I'm in these fucking places, they are doing just what Dem's do the Negro's keep stupid and paranoid and dependent and angry, and I walk by that anger every day.

Mindless fucking sheep.

War Gunboat Diplomacy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Van]

poptart, there's no way NOT to leave the covenant. There's no way NOT to run afoul of God's grace.

There is a way.


Romans 8:2: For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.


Take the Christ and you're in God's covenant.
Completely within God's grace.

It is finished.

Then what's the point of any covenant with the Jews at all? They'll never accept Christ as their Savior, so what's the point?

Besides, loads of other peoples around the globe never bought into Christ either and they haven't been given the raw deal God's given the Jews.

Like I said...set up for failure from the beginning. I just don't see what's in it for the Jews, in terms of buying into such a pissy God...

[RadioFan]

I'm not sure what warren just typed, but I'm pretty sure it means something to somebody. I think.

[Y2K]

I'm not sure what warren just typed, but I'm pretty sure it means something to somebody. I think.

What he just typed is $.
What part don't you agree with.

Rack Warren!

[Van]

Very few things make for good eatin' like a drunken warren rant.

His best rants read like that Windtalker dude got ahold of a Frank Rizzo post and half way through de-coding it dude took some shrapnel in the ear.

[PSUFAN]

funny rant, but damn, dude has a few rocks in his head.

I don't think you're an anti-semite, I just you've mislead by the same type of people that said all mvscals theives and crack dealers and them damn jews they're scheisters and only look out for themselves.

So...I ask someone to tell me why they'd choose to live in Israel over safer locales, and warren imagines me to be under the sway of the anti-semites?

Boy, Y2K...that's the part I disagree with. Oh, and pretty much the rest of it, too.

I mean shit - can't you ask a simple question without a gaggle of simpletons shrieking "STONE THE JEW HATER!!!!"

Damn, must be a war on or somethin'

[poptart]

Then what's the point of any covenant with the Jews at all? They'll never accept Christ as their Savior, so what's the point?

It's a good question.


God's original covenant was with MAN, whom He created.


Genesis 1:27: So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
28: And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
29: And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

Genesis 2:15: And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
16: And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
17: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.


God created man, gave him complete happiness, and dominion over the earth ...... with ONE rule.

Man broke that rule, and hence the covenant, and fell into curses...... but God promised in Genesis 3:15 that he would provide a way out. The coming Christ. The NEW covenant.

God initially established his covenant with the Jews in particular (Gen 12:1-3), regarding their own land, because it was to be the place where the Christ would be birthed. The coming Christ would come through the a Jewish blood line, in that land, ....... the line and land of 'God's chosen people'. This is originally why it was so important for the Jews to have that land, and to be 'one' people.

There are future reasons for the existence of Israel too, and very important.
It's too long to get into it.


God has never broken any covenant that he has established.
Man, on the other hand, has repeatedly not held up his end of the bargain.


The Jews are now as free to receive the Christ as any other person hearing the Gospel.

That ball is in their court ....... just as it is in your court.

[Th]

Getting back to the original question . . . . . . . .

Its tough for the Jews to support their self generated entitlement syndrome without any form of persecution. Its tough to appear persecuted in the world's eye without rockets pouring down on your head. Hence - the current situation. Honestly, we ALL know the situation is FAR more compicated than that but most would agree that widespread conflict has loomed inevitable over that region since 1948. The only answer MAY be to just let the best man win - FINALLY.

[Van]

poptart, the ball may still be in their court but it sure seems like they've been punished much more harshly than any other group for breaking this covenant...

In any case, all those little fables read like simple man made guilt tactics. Dangle the carrot, assign blame, withold the carrot....dangle the carrot again, assign blame again, withold the carrot again.

Invent man. Make him fallible. Tempt him. Watch him inevitably fail. Punish him for failing, after setting him up to fail.

Fucking brilliant. Sounds plausible to me. Sure meets my idea of how an infinitely Higher Being would conduct business with his own creation.

What, is God like Calvin and mankind is his snowman and Jesus is Hobbes, looking on disapprovingly as God creates ever more horrific snowmen tableaus for his own twisted amusement?

Meanwhile, practically every other group on earth is free to go about their business absent this boat anchor of a covenant, a covenant which no modern man had any say so in the making anyway...

[RadioFan]

What part don't you agree with.

The punctuation and coherency part. Though, the former might help with the latter.

Btw, this

God gave Man freewill

Would have been blasphemy for at least 1,000 years, according to most folks' Bibles.

Nonetheless, I didn't say it wasn't a good rant. Warren might be a predictable right-wing fucktard, with whom I've enjoyed many a banter, but he's usually a good read. White China must've scored tonight.

[poptart]

Meanwhile, practically every other group on earth is free to go about their business absent this boat anchor of a covenant, ......

They're not.

Over the past 2000 yrs countries which 'have' the Gospel have fared infinitely better than countries which worship idols.

It's night and day.

Historically, poverty, curses and mayhem are foundations of countries lacking the Gospel.



Van, I intend the following in a friendly way .......


God is God, and you are not.


That is the beginning of 'wisdom' for you. :wink:

[RadioFan]

Over the past 2000 yrs countries which 'have' the Gospel have fared infinitely better than countries which worship idols.

Oh Lord, here we go.

Speaking of starting another thread ...

'sayin', pop.

[poptart]

I wasn't talking about American Idol.

[Van]

Meanwhile, practically every other group on earth is free to go about their business absent this boat anchor of a covenant, ......

They're not.

Over the past 2000 yrs countries which 'have' the Gospel have fared infinitely better than countries which worship idols.

It's night and day.

Most of Africa has been given the Gospel by now and even those African countries that now consider themselves Christian are still primitive third world shitholes.

Mexico, much of Central America, the Phillipines...

Meanwhile, predominantly secular countries continue to enjoy the highest standard of living.

Historically, poverty, curses and mayhem are foundations of countries lacking the Gospel.

Link?

I'd especially be intrigued to see some hard facts concerning those non Christian countries which've been hit with "curses".

Are we talking, like, Robert Johnson curses, or your average BET comic's curses?

Van, I intend the following in a friendly way .......


God is God, and you are not.

poptart, I intend the following in a friendly way too...

Prove it.

I say I'm God, and I also say so are the dudes who wrote and re-wrote and re-wrote again the bible, and so is Cicero and so is Carrot Top.

Disprove it.

That is the beginning of 'wisdom' for you. :wink:

Or it's a request to abandon all reason in exchange for blind faith (the silly mental process, not the supergroup). One or the other. Feels like the latter.

[Tom In VA]

I am like God, and God like me. I am as large as God, He is as small as I. He cannot above me, nor I beneath Him be.

My faith isn't blind Van. Nor is the faith of millions upon millions of people who have suffered.

Who are YOU to mock their faith ?

[Tom In VA]

Who are YOU to mock their faith ?

Who do you need to be?

Well at least someone who has experienced, say the holocaust. Or take the U.S. holocaust victims, very staunch believers. I see an awful lot of spoiled WASPS questioning the existence of God and it just makes me question their lack of faith. It's really almost as if they're afraid of something.

[Van]

I am like God, and God like me. I am as large as God, He is as small as I. He cannot above me, nor I beneath Him be.

My faith isn't blind Van. Nor is the faith of millions upon millions of people who have suffered.

Who are YOU to mock their faith ?

Sorry, Tom, but yes it is.

Your Faith is blind. By definition. Faith is blind. It's believing in that which cannot be known.

That's the difference between Faith and knowledge. Lacking knowledge, you still blindly believe.

Nothing wrong with that, either. I envy you for it. I just don't have it in me. Wish I did, 'cause being agnostic is worse than having blind faith in either direction (being religious or being atheist), but I just don't.

Just don't confuse your definitions. You truly don't know...you believe.

[Van]

Who are YOU to mock their faith ?

Who do you need to be?

Well at least someone who has experienced, say the holocaust. Or take the U.S. holocaust victims, very staunch believers. I see an awful lot of spoiled WASPS questioning the existence of God and it just makes me question their lack of faith. It's really almost as if they're afraid of something.

People who experienced the holocaust are dead. Many of them abandoned their faith before they died, as well.

Can't exactly say that I blame them. If I were a Jew I'd want to get as far away as possible from this God that hates me and my people. I'd worship the wiggle in Patricia Santana's ass or Zakk Wylde's warbling vibrato before I'd continue to worship a God who leads my people into the gas chamber.

[Tom In VA]

I am like God, and God like me. I am as large as God, He is as small as I. He cannot above me, nor I beneath Him be.

My faith isn't blind Van. Nor is the faith of millions upon millions of people who have suffered.

Who are YOU to mock their faith ?

Sorry, Tom, but yes it is.

Your Faith is blind. By definition. Faith is blind. It's believing in that which cannot be known.

You got me on that one. But I lost faith then "rediscovered" it and now I choose to believe. It was something I struggled with for a long time, so I get a bit defensive when people presume that which they do not know.

Not everyone who experienced the holocaust died nor were they all Jewish.

[PSUFAN]

Yep, that's the definition of faith; taking something on belief rather than proof. Faith misspent, or misused, is a dangerous thing.


BTW, how do you know that Holocaust survivors are primarily "very staunch believers"? I think you're projecting a bit there. I have seen interviews with survivors that have utterly turned away from their religion as a result of the horrors they witnessed and experienced; like Van said, what God could countenance such atrocities? For the sake of an experiment? Thank you Lord, may I have Another?

[poptart]

I could go a lot of directions, Van, but here's one.


According to the U.S. Geological Survey National Earthquake Information Center

Most Destructive Known Earthquakes on Record in the World
(50,000 deaths or more)
(Listed in order of greatest number of deaths)


January 23, 1556 China 830,000 dead
October 11, 1737 India 300,000 dead
July 27, 1976 China 255,000 dead
August 9, 1138 Syria 230,000 dead
May 22, 1927 China 200,000 dead
December 16, 1920 China 200,000 dead
March 23, 893+ Iran 150,000 dead
September 1, 1923 Japan 143,000 dead
October 5, 1948 USSR 110,000 dead
December 28, 1908 Italy 70,000 - 110,000 estim. dead
September, 1290 China 100,000 dead
November, 1667 Caucasia 80,000 dead
November 18, 1727 Iran 77,000 dead
November 1, 1755 Portugal 70,000 dead
December 25, 1932 China 70,000 dead
May 31, 1970 Peru 66,000 dead
1268 Asia Minor, Silicia 60,000 dead
January 11, 1693 Italy 60,000 dead
May 30, 1935 Pakistan 30,000 to 60,000 dead
February 4, 1783 Italy 50,000 dead
June 20, 1990 Iran 50,000 dead

[Tom In VA]

Yep, that's the definition of faith; taking something on belief rather than proof. Faith misspent, or misused, is a dangerous thing.


BTW, how do you know that Holocaust survivors are primarily "very staunch believers"? I think you're projecting a bit there. I have seen interviews with survivors that have utterly turned away from their religion as a result of the horrors they witnessed and experienced; like Van said, what God could countenance such atrocities? For the sake of an experiment? Thank you Lord, may I have Another?

Right and I have seen interviews and actually met survivors who ...

1. Remain faithful
2. Some Jews that converted to Christianity.

So I suppose we all see what we want to see. Including you.