Your Favorite Eco-Nazi

[Rooster]

Off hand I don’t have the cite, but my understanding is in terms of being “green” an electric or hybrid vehicle is less green than a late model ICE vehicle all things being considered. The value is in the warm fuzzies it gives you, not the actual positive impact on the planet many people assume goes along with purchasing one. It is the transportation equivalent of recycling your garbage: A noble gesture, but an empty one, an act which, comparing carbon footprint to carbon footprint, measures a size 14 to ICE’s size 8.

All that being said, I am not casting aspersions on your choice, Mikey, since my belief is all this green business is simply nonsense. Your reasons are your own and you are pleased with your selection. Good enough for me.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

Also - who in the fuck wants to hang out at a convenience store for 30 minutes?

[Dinsdale]

Also - who in the fuck wants to hang out at a convenience store for 30 minutes?

[Mikey]

Off hand I don’t have the cite, but my understanding is in terms of being “green” an electric or hybrid vehicle is less green than a late model ICE vehicle all things being considered. The value is in the warm fuzzies it gives you, not the actual positive impact on the planet many people assume goes along with purchasing one. It is the transportation equivalent of recycling your garbage: A noble gesture, but an empty one, an act which, comparing carbon footprint to carbon footprint, measures a size 14 to ICE’s size 8.

All that being said, I am not casting aspersions on your choice, Mikey, since my belief is all this green business is simply nonsense. Your reasons are your own and you are pleased with your selection. Good enough for me.

You're way off the mark here on your comparison. I do have the cite...

Here’s a fairly well balanced article. Forbes isn’t usually considered a liberal mouthpiece. Unless of course you you don’t want to agree with the article.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesellsm ... 90924876d2

[Rooster]

A quick Google search left me with a number of websites that we could probably agree are liberal in tone. Each of them were vociferously adamant that electric vehicles are better for the environment.

And yet...

Here is a contrarian article in Politico where the author comes to a different conclusion.
https://www.politico.com/agenda/story/2 ... ent-000660

Furthermore, a study found that in Norway, the country that has most embraced electric vehicles, use of public transportation dropped by 80% since the advent of EVs. Tangential costs such as road repair from heavier use could be factored in, but such numbers are nigh impossible to find. My suspicion is that as the saying goes, “There are lies, damnable lies, and statistics,” we could probably find whatever data we wanted to find to support our own confirmation biases.

Ultimately, my take on it is if you are happy with your choice, who can gainsay you for your selection? And if Lefty wants a 4X4 to get into the backcountry in the winter, so be it. Unlike Bernie Sanders who believes we have far more deodorant choices than any good comrade should have, I believe that to each his own. But then I am not a true believer in AGW, so diesel, gas, electric— what have you, It should be your choice, not some bureaucrat who thinks one size fits all solution is the answer to a nonexistent problem.

[Mikey]

You can believe whatever numbers you want to believe. The Norway comparison, though, is not really valid. It's a much different system. Nobody in the US is going to jump off of public transportation to use an EV, because not that many people in the US use public transportation. At least not to the extent that they do in Europe. People in large cities use it because it's more convenient than driving. An EV doesn't change that in any way.

The real advantages of an EV, at least the newer ones coming out, are that they're cheaper to operate and just a lot more of a pleasure to drive...as long as you can deal with the charging situation (which is still improving) and you don't require the sound of a V8 engine to get your testicles going in the morning.

[Kierland]

Funny how it’s all the fatties like BrokenSeater and Melty that are so worried about payload. Fat stupid fucks.

[Mikey]

You can believe whatever numbers you want to believe. The Norway comparison, though, is not really valid. It's a much different system. Nobody in the US is going to jump off of public transportation to use an EV, because not that many people in the US use public transportation. At least not to the extent that they do in Europe. People in large cities use it because it's more convenient than driving. An EV doesn't change that in any way.

The real advantages of an EV, at least the newer ones coming out, are that they're cheaper to operate and just a lot more of a pleasure to drive...as long as you can deal with the charging situation (which is still improving) and you don't require the sound of a V8 engine to get your testicles going in the morning.

Again - I'll be all on it if I can get 500 miles with a 10 minute recharge. How much do they charge you to charge everything up at one of the Tesla stops?

Don't know because I don't plan on having to use one. I think I heard that they're free for Tesla owners. Not sure for plebes.

OK I just looked. It seems that Tesla charges between $0.20 and $0.26 per kWh in the US. That's generally still cheaper than buying gas (depending on what you assume the efficiency is for your EV vs your ICE). When I charge at home I only pay $0.09 per kWh. Like I said, it's a pretty sweet deal (the first in recorded history) from SDG&E.

[Goober McTuber]

Given all of that, a big selling point is fuel economy. We have a "super off-peak" EV electric rate here of $0.09/kWh from midnight until 6 am. on weekdays (midnight until 2 pm on weekends).

My local rate is $.09355. 24/7. 365 days a year.

[Mikey]

Given all of that, a big selling point is fuel economy. We have a "super off-peak" EV electric rate here of $0.09/kWh from midnight until 6 am. on weekdays (midnight until 2 pm on weekends).

My local rate is $.09355. 24/7. 365 days a year.

Then you're stupid not to be driving an EV.

[Goober McTuber]

Right now I enjoy driving a car that is paid for and not worrying if I'll need an extension cord to make it home. I've got a good job. I can afford gasoline.

[Kierland]

You work 100+ miles from home? That’s retarded.

[Goober McTuber]

You work 100+ miles from home? That’s retarded.

No, and I certainly never said that I did. Go hump someone else's leg short stuff.

[Kierland]

Mikey’s main argument for his EV involves him using it to commute. Your main argument is that you are a little pissy bitch that will worry about running out of juice. Therefore you must be talking about commuting cause he never said it was good for long trips. The car goes 200+ miles on a charge. You can charge it overnight so you would need to work more than 100+ miles from your house to have to worry.

That is how you construct an argument you pickled yellow fuck.

[Mikey]

Melty is just like his orange painted hero. If he has no logical response he resorts to childish gibberish.

[Mikey]

Melty is just like his orange painted hero. If he has no logical response he resorts to childish gibberish.

Have you ever heard the term "match the hatch"?

Nope. Is that Pirate Talk?

[Derron]

Yes. We know. You're a confused, "greatest generation" frump, living in a "world gone mad"...

Just gulp down your cat food and shut the fuck up, grandpa. The rest of us are busy undoing the shit bundle your era dumped on their kids and their kids.

Oh my the widdle millennial is having a pussy bleeding meltdown. By the time you youngsters spend every last dime you have on new vehicle payments, new $ 1,000 I phones every year you will be standing on that corner at the strip mall with your signs saying " Won't do shit for anything, we deserve more that this"

[Mikey]

I don’t think Marty is a widdle millennial. He’s just Canadian.

[Goober McTuber]

Mikey’s main argument for his EV involves him using it to commute. Your main argument is that you are a little pissy bitch that will worry about running out of juice. Therefore you must be talking about commuting cause he never said it was good for long trips. The car goes 200+ miles on a charge. You can charge it overnight so you would need to work more than 100+ miles from your house to have to worry.

I use my vehicle for all sorts of thing, you little pissant. I don't need to have one car for commuting, one car for driving to the Twin Cities, another car for running over lying little midgets, etc. You assumed I was talking about commuting. Which is why your "arguments" always suck. They're based on assumptions, opinions and misinformation. Have another Jaegerbomb, you babbling little sot.

[Kierland]

No you pickled fuck I didn’t assume anything. I inferred it from the totality of the conversation as I just explained in my post. But since you can’t think straight due to being embalmed you shit all over your post just like you shit your pants you stupid grandpa. Now go post more Grindr pics you retard leathery fuck.

[Goober McTuber]

No you pickled fuck I didn’t assume anything. I inferred it from the totality of the conversation as I just explained in my post.

Well, you inferred wrong, you simple-minded fuck. I never said a word about commuting. I was simply tweaking Mikey because because his super duper low middle of the night rate was about the same as my peak rate. I use my car for more than commuting, and in no way am I interested in investing in an EV right now. Does not make sense. Just like your "takes". Jesus Christ, you're as stupid as Sirfuckafist and as obtuse as Left Seater.

Oh fuck, schick is making more sense than tiny.

[Kierland]

What you SAID was that you didn’t want to worry about the battery. That argument is only valid if you are talking about something other than commuting because Mikey clearly said that it’s not good for long hauls. I get that you are dumb, but doubling down on stupid isn’t going to get you anywhere with me.

[Mikey]

The advantage of being happily married, especially to a woman who is retired, is that I drive a vehicle that’s ideal for my daily commute, plus occasional longer trips of up to 120 miles or so each way. She drives a vehicle, also fairly new, that’s ideal for shopping or longer trips while still getting pretty good mpg. You see I don’t need to personally own two vehicles to have the best of both worlds.

On top of that, my 1999 V10 F250 4x4 crew cab rarely gets driven but will haul just about anything, or leave tire tracks over the mangled carcass of anything Goobs rolls in.

[Rooster]

If all you do is work and go home, electric cars are fine. If you have a life you'll need a gas powered vehicle.
The Tesla was fine to drive to and from work, other than that it didn't get used much. A typical week will be driving to Corona for strength and conditioning then Anaheim for fielding; Tuesday is strength and conditioning in Corona and then pitching lessons in Canyon Lake; Wednesday is pitching and hitting workouts in Temecula; Thursday is strength and conditioning in Rancho Cucamonga; Friday's are her day off from softball but she usually goes to a movie with friends or we have to travel to where ever the tournament is that weekend; if there's no tournament then practice with the team is on Saturday and it's in Torrance; if there is a tournament we are either in a hotel or up early Saturday and driving to Irvine, Huntington Beach, Hemet, Lake Elsinore, West Covina... And then drive back there on Sunday....or if it's out of town it's a drive to Phoenix, Vegas, San Diego, Santa Barbara, Sacramento.... Off weekends it's the beach, the mountains, the motocross track (and the Tesla couldn't carry my bike), an amusement park... the electric car mostly sat in the garage because we have lives and can't be tethered to a plug or a short range.

Uffda. All that driving in traffic. No bueno, senor.

[Mikey]

To summarize:

Mikey (the greenie) needs an EV to help him cope with having one of the biggest gas-guzzlers ever produced.

Pretty much.

Ever heard of “redemption”?

[Screw_Michigan]

Had a Tesla for work, then I got a star on the windshield and for 6 weeks Tesla didn't have replacement windshields. So I traded it in. Hear Gavin Newscum is going to tax Tesla owners 10k a year so it was a good move.

I didn't find the Tesla more fun to drive, the lack of am exhaust note was just weird and it's power delivery is a bit scary or just felt odd on twisty roads

Please AutoPilot yourself in to the rear end of a stopped semitruck

[Derron]

If all you do is work and go home, electric cars are fine. If you have a life you'll need a gas powered vehicle.
The Tesla was fine to drive to and from work, other than that it didn't get used much. A typical week will be driving to Corona for strength and conditioning then Anaheim for fielding; Tuesday is strength and conditioning in Corona and then pitching lessons in Canyon Lake; Wednesday is pitching and hitting workouts in Temecula; Thursday is strength and conditioning in Rancho Cucamonga; Friday's are her day off from softball but she usually goes to a movie with friends or we have to travel to where ever the tournament is that weekend; if there's no tournament then practice with the team is on Saturday and it's in Torrance; if there is a tournament we are either in a hotel or up early Saturday and driving to Irvine, Huntington Beach, Hemet, Lake Elsinore, West Covina... And then drive back there on Sunday....or if it's out of town it's a drive to Phoenix, Vegas, San Diego, Santa Barbara, Sacramento.... Off weekends it's the beach, the mountains, the motocross track (and the Tesla couldn't carry my bike), an amusement park... the electric car mostly sat in the garage because we have lives and can't be tethered to a plug or a short range.

Apparently you did not understand that playing softball will turn your daughter into a pussy eating bull dyke. Search some of Wags old posts.

[Left Seater]

And then Screw the compassionate liberal chimes in...

I see what you did there. But it begs a question, are liberals more racist or less compassionate?

[Mikey]

And then Screw the compassionate liberal chimes in...

I see what you did there. But it begs a question, are liberals more racist or less compassionate?

I see what you did there. The answer to your question is...neither. Generally just a lot more intelligent.

[Kierland]

Being smarter than BrokenPsyche is not that hard.

[Goober McTuber]

What you SAID was that you didn’t want to worry about the battery. That argument is only valid if you are talking about something other than commuting because Mikey clearly said that it’s not good for long hauls.

Exactly you tiny retard. I need a car for multiple purposes. Why did you assume it was only for commuting?

[Kierland]

I already answered that question you fat pickled retard.

[Mikey]

Just thought I'd provide an update on my little "experiment."

So far I'm 23 days into the current billing cycle, which started on May 22. My PV system doesn't cover all of my usage, especially since adding the electric car. So, in 23 days my "net" usage is 73 kWh. My total cost for these 73 kWh is -$31.14. Yes, that's a negative number. It happens because I'm using electricity at night at $0.09/kWh but putting it back into the grid during the day (via the PV system) at $0.23/kWh or $0.52/kWh (from 4 pm until 9 pm).

This obviously will change later in the summer when we start having to use the AC in the late afternoon and evening, but things are looking good so far.

Plus I haven't been to the gas station.

[Left Seater]

Not having to run the a/c for 8 months of the year is certainly an advantage to living in CA.

Glad this is working out for you. I just don't see the economics of leasing, but then I am also not in the market for a small EV.

[Mikey]

I never leased a vehicle either, until a few years ago. It seemed like putting a bunch of money into a car and then getting nothing out of it at the end.

That was until somebody actually laid it out for me and it makes a lot of sense, at least under certain circumstances.

With a lease what you are actually doing is financing the difference in value between the time you lease the car and the time your turn it in. For example, if you lease a vehicle with a price of $30,000 for three years with a 12,000 mile per year limit, they will calculate the residual value that the vehicle is expected to have at the end of the lease, maybe $18,000, assuming you have 36,000 miles or less when you turn it in. This value goes into the lease agreement and will not change, unless you have excessive wear and tear or put too many miles on it. At the end of the lease you can buy it out for that price.

So, what you do in the lease is finance $12,000 instead of financing $30,000 or whatever portion you don't cover with a down payment. You can finance this $12,000 with a small down payment and probably a lower monthly payment (depending on what you would have put down on the purchase) than you can get with a purchase. It's really pretty much of a wash. You can put a couple of $$ grand down and keep your monthly payment low, and either walk away or buy it out in three years, or put down a bigger payment and pay it off in five or six years. The lease gives you either option, while you can hold on to more of your money.

The purchase might make more sense if you know for certain you're going to keep the car for a long time without putting too many miles on it. The lease makes more sense if you think you'll want to move to another vehicle in three years, or at least have the option, without having to negotiate any kind of trade in. In the case of an EV, I think there will be a lot more advances in technology and more choices of body style, etc. in three years. The battery on the Kona has a lifetime warranty but only for the first owner (not transferable). So, I drive the Kona for three years and then move to something more advanced. Turn the Kona in, nothing owed, no trade-in, and move to the next lease.

[Left Seater]

I get all of that. But after the lease is up you have to start over or buy it. If you lease another you start the financing over. If you buy it and aren’t paying cash you end up financing a used car.

[Kierland]

I drive too much to lease.

Broken seater weighs to much to lease.

[Mikey]

First month's report on my pet project combining EV, storage battery and PV.

So my latest billing period ran from May 22 through June 20 (30 days). I've been downloading 15 minute usage data from SDG&E just about every day to put into a spreadsheet that I developed to track usage and cost by peak and off-peak periods. As you can see from the table below, I used a total net energy of 123 kW. That's the amount we used in the house minus the production from the PV system. Even though I had a net positive usage, I managed to earn a $36.00 credit ($20.00 after the $16.00 per month meter charge) by controlling when I use the electricity.



The chart shows a fairly typical day. At midnight, when the super low rates begin, the storage battery and EV both start charging. The EV is finished charging in about an hour, and the battery is completely charged by about 4:30 am. From 4:30 AM until about 8:00 am it's just what the house is using. The pool pump comes on at 6:45 am. The solar starts producing at about 8:00 am and keeps increasing until about 2:00 pm. The pool pump turns off at 3:45 pm. The battery wakes up at 4:00 pm and, once the PV stops producing, keeps everything close to 0 until 9:00 pm at the end of the peak period.

For all those negative hours I'm getting credit at $0.24/kWh during the off-peak period and $0.52 during the peak period. The super off-peak period is only costing me $0.09/kWh. For the day there was a total net usage of 2 kWh and a total charge of -$2.96.

We'll see how all of this goes in a few weeks when the AC starts coming on in the afternoon.

[Kierland]

So you made $20 bucks.
How much did you save on the e bill and the gas bill?

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

Oh boy...graphs....