Texas High School Football realignment

[Left Seater]

Every two years the UIL which is the governing body of academic and athletic competitions among public school in Texas does their realignment. This ensures that schools are competing against schools of similar size and resources. Pretty interesting process.

The UIL selects a random set of dates in the fall of odd numbered years and obtains the daily enrollment numbers for each public school on those dates from the TEA. It then averages the enrollment numbers for each school and then puts them in order from highest to lowest. From this list it then removes the schools that play 6-man football and puts them in their own list. Then it divides the remaining list in fifths. The top fifth of the list becomes 6A, the next fifth is 5A, etc. This gets them to 2A, and the 6-man schools become 1A.

Then 6 huge maps of the state are put up on the walls of the UIL conference room. One map for each classification, 6A to 1A. Pushpins are then used to mark the location of each school on its respective classification map. Once all the schools have had their pushpin added to the respective map the UIL pulls out a box of rubber bands.

The rubber bands are used to group schools in to 32 districts. The primary objective here is to group geographically. Each district can have no less than 5 schools or more than 10. This is easier in the metro areas as the rubber bands cover small areas. But in west Texas these bands may encompass more than 300 miles. Once this is done they step back and observe the bands. Sometimes small tweaks are made to reduce travel or because of a schools request.

Then when they feel comfortable with the groupings they announce the new districts and classifications.

Totally different than the way it is done in Massachusetts, for example. There the schools formed their own conferences and some were over 100 years old. This lead to huge schools in the metro Boston area playing tiny cape schools. Historical rivals but not very fair when the smaller schools hadn't won in something like 30 years.

[Left Seater]

It is most likely a private school.

Private schools should not be competing with public schools on the court or field.

Schools in the North East are the perfect example. The private schools and Catholic schools can recruit players. When you can recruit you should be winning all the time and that's what often happens. Until public schools can start recruiting athletes they can't compete.

[Goober McTuber]

Way different than the way it is done in California where the #1 team in the nation has just 750 students

Guess where those kids want to play in college.

The only place they can qualify academically?

[Left Seater]

Public Schools recruit in California as well, and transfers every year can change all sorts of things

So I can live in one District and play in another? If that is really the case, no one would go to school in Compton. They would all be in Beverly Hills.

[Killian]

Way different than the way it is done in California where the #1 team in the nation has just 750 students

Guess where those kids want to play in college.

Every conference that has a team you are a fan of?

[Laxplayer]

I gotta go with Schmick on this one. There are public schools that openly recruit kids for all sports. In our district we have a few schools that have open enrollment so in a window of time you can enroll in that school. Ironically a lot of kids go to schools for athletic reasons only as part of youth teams that have stayed together for a period of time. There are also schools in our district that have programs that other schools don't for example an athletic training program, a web design program, a foreign language etc....so parents can pick and choose where their kids want to go based on that as well. If all else fails then just threaten a lawsuit and districts will back down and you'll get your way.

[Left Seater]

The best public schools here cant compete with the best private schools in football or baseball

They arent giving away free schollies but they do give discounts and the coaching at the private schools is far better. The best schools in the nation are private schools

Hence the reason the public schools and private schools should not be in the same leagues or divisions.

[The Seer]

St John Bosco & Serra are churning them out.

[Mace]

The system described by LS is very similar, if not identical, to how it's done in Iowa. Districts are realigned every two years, classifications are based on 9-11 projected enrollments for the next two years, and the 8 team districts are mapped out geographically to minimize travel as much as possible. This is a relatively new concept here, as we used to have conference play with schools of varied classifications being in the same league, and playoff teams being determined by a complicated point system that too often denied undefeated teams a spot in the state playoffs. In the past, the top two teams from each district qualified for the state playoffs, but that was expanded to four teams per district last year and added an extra round to the playoffs.

The private vs public recruiting issue is likely a problem everywhere, including Iowa, but we have for the past several years allowed for "open enrollment" in public schools which has somewhat leveled the playing field. Private schools still have an advantage, imo, because they are more selective in their admissions and don't have the same bottom 10%-15% of students who attend public schools adding to their enrollment count for classification.

[Dinsdale]

Pretty much the same deal in Oregon. 1A through 6A, based on size, and the leagues have teams from the same areas.

And the private schools recruit. And often dominate. The 6A championship game was Central Catholic vs Jesuit -- two huge catholic schools, both in the Portland area. While Central Catholic (sup Joey Harrington) hadn't won since like the 1930's, Jesuit wins about every other year. A few years ago, Sports Illustrated ranked Jesuit the #1 HS sports program in the country. In recent years, of the 14 officially sanctioned fall sports (boys and girls, since Jesuit now has chicks), Jesuit won 11 of them.

The Portland schools have open enrollment (as mentioned by the calis, some offer different programs), and yet they just about always suck at football. And they pretty much rule at basketball -- well, Grant and Jefferson do anyway (Jefferson is a tiny little school, too... with a certain out-of-proportion ethnic makeup).

[Dinsdale]

Not many black kids in either public or private schools here. The ones who can play football and read and write get scholarships to the private schools.

[Left Seater]

How can a school that puts very few players in the Pac 12 and even fewer in the pros be the #1 athletic program in the nation? Max Preps ranked their football team 262 in the nation their baseball team was ranked 3,498 in the nation, basketball was ranked 821

Mater Dei High School football was ranked #10 in the nation, baseball was ranked #5 in the nation, basketball was ranked #3 in the nation. Maybe Sports Illustrated should have consulted Max Preps, who actually covers HS sports, before claiming a school has the best athletic program in the nation.

SI, USAToday, Max Preps, all of them do their rankings incorrectly. Public schools should not be ranked with the private schools. Period.

[Left Seater]

How can a school that puts very few players in the Pac 12 and even fewer in the pros be the #1 athletic program in the nation? Max Preps ranked their football team 262 in the nation their baseball team was ranked 3,498 in the nation, basketball was ranked 821

Mater Dei High School football was ranked #10 in the nation, baseball was ranked #5 in the nation, basketball was ranked #3 in the nation. Maybe Sports Illustrated should have consulted Max Preps, who actually covers HS sports, before claiming a school has the best athletic program in the nation.

SI, USAToday, Max Preps, all of them do their rankings incorrectly. Public schools should not be ranked with the private schools. Period.

[SunCoastSooner]

Actually, most states, or I should say that the predominant system across the country is much like Texas' system.

Florida differs because of the distance involved in some districts travelling even if they were to do it like in Texas. Texas is considerably larger square milage but to put things in perspective I live about as close to San Antonio as I do Miami and Houston is much closer than Miami. I'm not completely sure of the system used here but it is an 8A system and I know it involves breaking the state down into regions as well as divisions.

[SunCoastSooner]

Alabama just went from 6 to 7 divisions in the public system.


SCS, you shoulda jumped in here and given me some grief after your boys embarrassed Alabama!

In short, life is busy. It was a very big win and it allowed us to cap off a great recruiting class. We have a lot to look forward to.

[Left Seater]

Problem is you still have a bunch of teams go 14-0 and never get a shot at playing for anything more than a section title.


In the Southern Section you have 13 divisions and 404 teams... in just 1 section. State Champions are impossible with that many schools


Public schools recruit like crazy, they have club team's coaches directing all the players towards certain schools and private schools are worse.

State champions are not impossible with any number of schools. California doesn't want true state champs, this way more schools can claim some sort of bode.

As your own words state private schools recruit like crazy. Put them in their own classification and then divide them by enrollment. Do the same with the public schools. Having true state champs is actually quite easy.

[SunCoastSooner]

Actually, most states, or I should say that the predominant system across the country is much like Texas' system.

Florida differs because of the distance involved in some districts travelling even if they were to do it like in Texas. Texas is considerably larger square milage but to put things in perspective I live about as close to San Antonio as I do Miami and Houston is much closer than Miami. I'm not completely sure of the system used here but it is an 8A system and I know it involves breaking the state down into regions as well as divisions.

California has 10 sections and each section has several divisions. For years winning the section championship was it, that was the schools 14th game and the season was over. Then about 10 years ago they came up with the California Bowl games where they started with 1 team from the north and 1 team from the south in 3 different divisions and now I believe they have the top from the north and top from the south in 6 different divisions. In the South they also take the top 2 from each division after their section championships and have them play for a right to play the bowl game. So they will top out at 16 games
Problem is you still have a bunch of teams go 14-0 and never get a shot at playing for anything more than a section title.
In the Southern Section you have 13 divisions and 404 teams... in just 1 section. State Champions are impossible with that many schools


You have schools whose school district puts them in to leagues, regardless of the schools actual ability in sports so some teams will never win a league football game in 3 or 4 years. This causes all the youth players who live in that schools district to transfer to another school before their freshman year which just leads to making the weak schools weaker.
One school district I know pretty well has 5 High Schools in it, it wants all 5 in the same district but their newest school never built up the traditions in certain sports and all the good youth players go to the other 4 High Schools. Originally those 5 schools made up 5 of the 8 schools in a League, the other 3 schools were from a nearby towns district which also had 5 HS but split them up. After the first couple years that school district pulled 2 of their three teams out because they were historically strong at athletics but were smashed week in and week out, they left their newest HS in that league to continue to take beatings though.
Public schools recruit like crazy, they have club team's coaches directing all the players towards certain schools and private schools are worse.

Every team in Florida has a shot at a state title in our state.

[Left Seater]

much fewer teams, much less travel in Florida

You really don't engage your brain for a second before typing responses, do you?

Less travel in Florida. Pretty sure the road distance from Key West to Pensacola is greater than or equal to the distance from San Diego to the Oregon border or Brownsville to Dalhart.

Much less travel in Fl my ass!

[SunCoastSooner]

much fewer teams, much less travel in Florida

On a good day for driving it is a 16 hour trip between Pensacola and Homestead. By road I live just as close to San Antonio as I do Miami and Houston is much closer and those are in ideal driving conditions. Hell just to Orlando from Pensacola it is 8 hours; to put things in perspective, New Orleans, Houston, Birmingham, and Atlanta are all closer or equal distance to Pensacola as Orlando and it's in the center of the state.

Also there are only 46 more high schools in the state of California than in the state of Florida. If breaking that down into six classifications that would give California about 7 more high schools a division than Florida . . . or one extra district.

[SunCoastSooner]

Key West, Fl to Pensacola Fl 832 miles 12 hours and 21 minutes
Smith River, CA to Araz Junction, CA 1011 miles 15 hours and 37 minutes.

Now which is farther, 832 miles or 1011 miles?

Google saying that is a 12 hour trip is laughable. Taking their route you'd have to fight Tallahassee, Orlando, and Gator Turnpike traffic. On my fastest day driving to Miami it takes 12+ hours from Destin.

[Left Seater]

Ok, so you found two border cities that was a longer in CA. Imaps on my iPad shows that under a thousand miles and we could change Pensacola to Jakes rd in FL and add mileage there as well. We could also move the start point in Texas to the Padre Island National Seashore and then to the national grasslands in the far NW of the sate where it borders OK and NM.

The last one would make longer road mileage than CA. The point I was making and still am is the travel in CA is not any worse than FL or TX by any means. Using travel distances or number of schools as a reason you can't have a state champions is nothing but an excuse.

[SunCoastSooner]

Ok, so you found two border cities that was a longer in CA. Imaps on my iPad shows that under a thousand miles and we could change Pensacola to Jakes rd in FL and add mileage there as well. We could also move the start point in Texas to the Padre Island National Seashore and then to the national grasslands in the far NW of the sate where it borders OK and NM.

The last one would make longer road mileage than CA. The point I was making and still am is the travel in CA is not any worse than FL or TX by any means. Using travel distances or number of schools as a reason you can't have a state champions is nothing but an excuse.

Florida's real problem is that so many of it's population centers are in extreme areas of the state; Pensacola is literally on the Alabama state line (really Mobile and Pensacola are the same metro area anymore), Jacksonville is in the extreme Northeast part of the state, Miami/Homestead Southeast, Tampa Bay Southwest. Orlando is central and Tallahassee central-ish. Unless Florida separates into regions as well as districts it makes scheduling impossible. Most of the BIG time high school programs in the panhandle play at least one opponent from Alabama every season and in some cases as many as three because it is harder for them to find out district, non-county required, games. I'd say there are two BIG programs in Pensacola, Pace, Niceville, and two more BIG programs in Tallahassee where football is taken to a next level of seriousness.

Florida still finds a way that every team in the state is competing for the state title at their division, state wide.

[SunCoastSooner]

On a side note, I feel horrible for the school, when/if the day comes, where one farther west than Tallahassee hits an enrollment that puts them into 7A. The travel will be horrible.

It's a real threat for three schools one in Pensacola, Niceville, and Tallahassee Colby (?). They're talking about building a bunch of new schools in the Miami area to help with the overcrowding. 8A is almost entirely Miami schools with a few scattered from Jacksonville/Lakeland and Tampa. 7A is predominantly southern and central part of the state. 6A is where it's starts to really be statewide. That's completely dictated by enrollment numbers though.

[Left Seater]

SCS, yeah districts and regions are the way to go. Districts are given a number starting at 1 in PNS and end at 16 or 32 in the extreme south FL area including the Keys. The first 4 or 8 districts are then region one, districts 5-8 or 9-16 are region 2, etc. Then in the playoffs district 1 faces district 2 while 3 faces 4, etc. You keep playing off until you have 4 regional champs. Then region 1 plays region 2 and 3 faces region 4. Then the winners meet for the title.

[SunCoastSooner]

SCS, yeah districts and regions are the way to go. Districts are given a number starting at 1 in PNS and end at 16 or 32 in the extreme south FL area including the Keys. The first 4 or 8 districts are then region one, districts 5-8 or 9-16 are region 2, etc. Then in the playoffs district 1 faces district 2 while 3 faces 4, etc. You keep playing off until you have 4 regional champs. Then region 1 plays region 2 and 3 faces region 4. Then the winners meet for the title.

Yes . . . really, in all truth, 8A is usually the Miami City title and the other classifications spread out from there. The largest schools in the panhandle are 6A. Schools that people in this part of the state think are large and even in some cases over crowded are in 5A. There's been talk for years about Crestview and Niceville both building second high schools and either Fort Walton building a third or Destin building its own high school (finally). In some of those cases the sports classifications is why they haven't.

[Dinsdale]

Ok, so you found two border cities that was a longer in CA.

What he also fails to mention is that the extreme northern parts of California are borderline-uninhabitable, and the entire population could fit into one bus. You don't really run into much population until Redding, which is a hundred miles or so south of the Oregon border.

Although, if you're counting traffic, I can't see making it from say Smith River or Crescent City to San Diego in less than 16-18 hours, and that would be flying through the boonies.

[SunCoastSooner]

Ok, so you found two border cities that was a longer in CA.

What he also fails to mention is that the extreme northern parts of California are borderline-uninhabitable, and the entire population could fit into one bus. You don't really run into much population until Redding, which is a hundred miles or so south of the Oregon border.

Although, if you're counting traffic, I can't see making it from say Smith River or Crescent City to San Diego in less than 16-18 hours, and that would be flying through the boonies.

But with California's geography why would you ever have to worry about that happening? They have major population centers scattered throughout the state that would prevent districting that would cause that to occur unless the two schools scheduled it intentionally. Same in Texas but Texas crowns state champions and their system is modeled after by numerous states. Florida is unique in its population centers truly being at extreme parts of the state and they still find a way to crown state champions at multiple classifications statewide based on enrollment.

[Dinsdale]

But with California's geography why would you ever have to worry about that happening?

I could see that happening once -- if Crescent City was slated to play in the championship game with some hodunk town in the Mojave, although I would think that would be played at some neutral site -- which would still have Crescent City traveling a long way (which would make it no different from Florida).

I guess my point was in regards to Schmuck, in that in California, there ain't much going on north of Sacramento. Florida does have population centers from one end to the other, California, not so much. Still plenty of driving to be dome there.

Oregon isn't exactly small, but most of the population centers are in the western parts, and teams might schedule one long-distance interleague game a season. Couple of years ago, I went to a game in Central Point (Medford area, down south) against Oregon City (Portland area, way up north). Probably a 5 hour bus ride, but that's not the norm. Portland area schools get ambitious and schedule Eugene area schools, which keeps the drives 2 hours or less. I just assumed it was that way everywhere.

They usually hold all the championship games at Autzen, which keeps the travel down for most -- except many of the small division schools are on the Dryside (east), which makes it a long friggen way... but they chose to live in the middle of nowhere, so fuck'em... or have their championships in Bend.

[SunCoastSooner]

But with California's geography why would you ever have to worry about that happening?

I could see that happening once -- if Crescent City was slated to play in the championship game with some hodunk town in the Mojave, although I would think that would be played at some neutral site -- which would still have Crescent City traveling a long way (which would make it no different from Florida).

I guess my point was in regards to Schmuck, in that in California, there ain't much going on north of Sacramento. Florida does have population centers from one end to the other, California, not so much. Still plenty of driving to be dome there.

Oregon isn't exactly small, but most of the population centers are in the western parts, and teams might schedule one long-distance interleague game a season. Couple of years ago, I went to a game in Central Point (Medford area, down south) against Oregon City (Portland area, way up north). Probably a 5 hour bus ride, but that's not the norm. Portland area schools get ambitious and schedule Eugene area schools, which keeps the drives 2 hours or less. I just assumed it was that way everywhere.

They usually hold all the championship games at Autzen, which keeps the travel down for most -- except many of the small division schools are on the Dryside (east), which makes it a long friggen way... but they chose to live in the middle of nowhere, so fuck'em... or have their championships in Bend.

Have any public schools won a state title, other than Aloha, in the last decade in Oregon?

[Dinsdale]

Have any public schools won a state title, other than Aloha, in the last decade?

Aloha traditionally sucked. But Thomas Tyner rules.

Hillsboro won the 5A a couple of years ago -- because Colt Lyerla was pretty good.


Kinda messed up, because I believe it was only 4 divisions (4A) until 2006. This season was Central Catholic (private). Last year was Shelddon (Eugene public), their 3rd(?) in the last decade. Lake Oswego (public, very wealthy), and Southridge (large school, public). Jesuit is the only other private on the list (2 in the last decade). But Jesuit (same league as Aloha and Southridge -- badass league which was where my school was) and Central Catholic are the only really large private schools I know of in the state. Jesuit is a threat to win any given sport in any given year. Tigard (my large burb), and Sprague (big Salem school) are the others.

So for how many big private schools there are (2), they do well. The others are all huge schools in the big population centers, generally with above-average real estate/incomes.

[SunCoastSooner]

Have any public schools won a state title, other than Aloha, in the last decade?

Aloha traditionally sucked. But Thomas Tyner rules.

Hillsboro won the 5A a couple of years ago -- because Colt Lyerla was pretty good.


Kinda messed up, because I believe it was only 4 divisions (4A) until 2006. This season was Central Catholic (private). Last year was Shelddon (Eugene public), their 3rd(?) in the last decade. Lake Oswego (public, very wealthy), and Southridge (large school, public). Jesuit is the only other private on the list (2 in the last decade). But Jesuit (same league as Aloha and Southridge -- badass league which was where my school was) and Central Catholic are the only really large private schools I know of in the state. Jesuit is a threat to win any given sport in any given year. Tigard (my large burb), and Sprague (big Salem school) are the others.

So for how many big private schools there are (2), they do well. The others are all huge schools in the big population centers, generally with above-average real estate/incomes.

I'm actually familiar with both Aloha and Sheldon. Aloha because I know some people who live up there and Sheldon because I used to fool around with a girl who went to high school there who was in college here. Pretty damn hot and now in med school at Florida State.

[Left Seater]

Homestead to Jacksonville, South tip to North tip is 350 miles. Now if you want to drive a crescent shaped route that takes you up the east coast of Florida from Key West to Pensacola you'll get 800 miles but north to south, florida is only 350 miles .

Oh, so now it is only about straight line distance? So CA is longer South to North than FL, but still short of Texas. And suddenly your 1000 + mile trip in CA is reduced to 640 miles if we are talking north south distance.

At the end of the day, all you have is excuses why CA doesn't have a true state champion(s).

[Left Seater]

California has 1094 11 man football teams.

Central Coast Section 94
Central Section 100
LA City Section 70
North Coast Section 110
Oakland 6
Sac-Joaquin Section 154
San Diego Section 93
San Francisco 8
Southern Section 404

Wow, what an accomplishment to be Oakland or San Francisco sectional champs.

It is easy Schmick, you take your 1100 HS football teams and divide them up into 5 classifications. Each classification will have roughly 220 teams. Then divide each classification into 32 districts and you will have a bunch of 7 team districts and a few 6 team districts. Each team in a district plays each other and a few games outside of their district early in the year for a total of 10 regular season games. Then the top two teams in each district make the playoffs. 6 weeks later you will have 5 true state champions. Until the last three weeks of the playoffs your travel is going to be minimal. Further if teams are really worried about the travel they can agree to meet at a neutral site somewhere between the two schools.

Again, you aren't posting anything but excuses as to why CA doesn't have true champs.

[Left Seater]

Show me a state with 1100 high school football teams that makes that work?

I JUST DID! Texas has more than 1100 HS 11 man football teams. Here is a link to just the public schools and their ranked enrollment. (Note: if you want to count them do not include the 1A schools as they play 6 man football.) To help you with the math, page 1 has 42 11 man football schools, pages 2-25 have 43 11 man football schools, and page 26 has 28 11 man football schools. So (24*43)+42+28=1102 Texas public schools playing 11 man football.

http://www.uiltexas.org/files/alignment ... -Order.pdf

Plus Texas is far larger than CA.

Again, this isn't hard if you really want to have true state champs.

[Mace]

good for texas, they were able to work with each other and get something done when the liberals running the schools in California have not

A playoff system can be established in any state if determining a true state champion in every class is their goal. There may be a multitude of reasons for why California chooses to not have playoffs, but they could do it if they wanted to. E.O.S.

[Mace]

NCAA could do the same thing with the 1A programs as well but theyre too busy protecting certain conferences and bowls

That's true, and has always been true, even though it has absolutely nothing to do with California high schools not having a playoff system to crown state champions.

[SunCoastSooner]

good for texas, they were able to work with each other and get something done when the liberals running the schools in California have not

You clearly aren't familiar with San Antonio or Austin politics . . . While maybe conservative when compared to California (kind of like Cuba) they are anything but conservative bastions. All three locally are fairly liberal (I believe both have democratic mayors and the San Antonio mayor has been linked to a run for congress).

More excuses.