Heard Mack Brown and Kevin Sumlin on Sunday

[Left Seater]

Both attended the Texas HS coaches assoc and Texas assoc of sports officials conference. On Sunday they were part of a round table and answered a ton of questions. Some are below.

Future Schedules:

Texas - USC, CAL, BYU, ND currently 4 years likely to be extended to 8, UCLA, Maryland, Arkansas.

ATM - RICE, SMU, USC, Oregon, Lamar, LA Tech, McNeese, working in FSU.


Recruiting:

Texas - will continue to focus on Texas with the occasional out of state

ATM - doesn't think being in the SEC will hurt their recruiting, but does see it hurting UH, SMU, etc.


Champions Bowl:

Both expect to see the payout of that to be between $30 to $40 Million to each league. Site will be determined by highest bid, both expect Jerry Jones to pay a ton to host.


ND:

Brown mentioned ND and expects them to stay in the Big East for at least the remainder of their NBC deal. He also expects them to re evaluate the Big East for all its sports. If/when the Big East no longer works for them he fully expects ND would only consider the Big XII. ND could also keep their NBC contract in the Big XII. We asked his opinion Brown said ND would be in the conf by 2018.


Longhorn Network:

Sumlin brought it up twice as a jab. He said there were 6 people who could now see it. Brown countered with "the checks keep coming regardless."


Stadium expansion:

Decent chance that ATM will have to play their home games at Reliant Stadium in Houston next season as they undergo an upgrade.

Texas has a master plan that could take the seating over 110,000.


Future meetings:

Sumlin said ATM wants to play Texas anytime any place. Mack spoke about the difficulty of finding a spot for ATM when they only have three non-conf games a year and have contracts signed out thru 2018. He also asked the crowd who he should drop to fit ATM in, USC or ND? Brown then said it was easier for ATM to want to play the game because they have 4 non-conf games a year and lightweights on the future schedule.

[Van]

Fuck it, let the Pac 12 take in ND during the next round of expansion. That's a much more natural fit for ND than the Big XII could ever be, whether it's academics, rivalries, campus cultures, whatever. The B1G still makes the most sense for ND in those regards, but the Pac is ahead of the XII there.

"Travel miles!" brays Terry.

BFD. Boise St and San Diego St will soon be playing in the Big East.

"But we want a chance to win!"

Great. Join the Big East. Have fun.

[Left Seater]

I would have to put the PAC 12 behind the ACC and Mid American to land ND.

Granted travel isn't the largest factor, it is one and ND would have to go from the Eastern time zone to the Pacific time zone at least 4 times a year. Plus when those teams played at ND the start times would be between 11:30 and 12:30 for NBC. Not to mention the PAC 12 has already said its teams can't have individual TV deals.

Plus with OU and Texas expanding their relationship with ND, and ND not wanting a conf title game, the Big XII will get ND at some point.

[Van]

Why is ND against a conference title game? I hadn't heard that one before.

[Left Seater]

For the same reason the B1G was against it for all those seasons and the Pac 12 didn't have a conf basketball tourney till the early 2000s.

Lose and you might miss out on a title opportunity.

[Terry in Crapchester]

Lefty,

What Mack didn't tell you is that if ND does join the Big XII, it will do so as a non-football member. There has been a lot of discussionabout that on the ND homer boards of late. As I understand it, there's a poison-pill provision in the latest Big XII agreement through which all members have to cede Tier I and Tier II TV rights to the conference for up to 5 years after leaving the conference. So if ND were to join the Big XII, the only games it could continue to televise on NBC would be Tier III games. Using this year's home schedule as an example, only Wake Forest and (possibly) BYU would fit in that category. I think that makes it unlikely that ND will join the Big XII for football.

Van,

This may come as a surprise to you, but if ND must join a football conference, of the currently existing conferences, I would prefer to see ND join the Pac-12 as a football- only member and stay in the Big East for other sports. I don't think Swarbrick can pull that off, though.

[Van]

I was only joking. I certainly don't see ND ever joining the Pac. I just think that between the XII and the Pac the Pac is a more natural fit for them. They've already got two football rivalries there, and with UCLA they have a decent historical hoops rivalry. Culture-wise, ND is far more USC/Stanford than Taco Tech/Okie St.

[Left Seater]

terry,

What Mack did say was that the conf won't take anyone that isn't a full member.

He also indicated that ND's deal with NBC wouldn't preclude them from joining. I don't think he was just making crap up, cause he brought it up without prompting.

[Harvdog]

Of course Sumlin will play Texas! He is the guy who runs his mouth knowing damn good and well that it won't happen. It's like fucking with animals at the zoo. You can wave food at them and you know that they cannot get you, so you keep acting the fool. A&M wanted the SEC and they will get it in a month. Amazing how the 7th best team in the history of the Big XII and 4th best in the Big XII South complained about going to a "better" league. I cannot wait to see the red ass in College Station after their 4th consecutive 4-8 finish in 2015. At least they will have the Vanderbilt game to look forward too....

Longhorn Network:

Sumlin brought it up twice as a jab. He said there were 6 people who could now see it. Brown countered with "the checks keep coming regardless."

More aggy envy. They had a chance to be a part of a network and thought it would fail. Texas got the offer from ESPN and then aggy wanted in. Sorry.....doesn't work that way. Now go away and be the chickenhawk of the SEC. This is what you deserve.

I think it is great that Mack cracked back about the checks.....because that is what irks the aggys the most.

[King Crimson]

always having to rip Vandy around here....but, truth is, they have put together a reasonably solid overall athletic program since dropping the official AD or something about a decade or so ago. no one on campus gave a fuck. students are into it, partially because they were well-trained as youngsters in the aggressive consumer culture. they support anything as a consumer contact high...in this case it's Vandy sports.

it was real crap when i was there....now, good at baseball, hoops, women's hoops, golf....football team wins 4 games instead of 2 or less (thanks so much Watson Brown for all you have done at OU and Vandy).

anyway, be interesting to see how Sumlin does. he was always a hot name but never called the plays at OU as co-OC (inflated title, Kevin Wilson always called the plays)....and inherited pretty good after Briles took the Baylor job with Keenum. and Art is pretty good, looks like. I know Sumlin was already at ATM and took over for Les Steckel some other dinosaur on RC's staff and beat a #1 OU team in the debut of Reggie McNeal...the ATM version of Vince Young).

go ahead Harv, call me a hater (that's how we do)...but Mack's check comment seems a little flimsy and dissimulation to me too. sure cashing the checks is fun...but football is about winning between the white lines and when they hand out the trophies. when you win, you make money. lately and moving forward, maybe Mack's the one just cashing the checks? Freudian slip as people say.

though i'm not sure losing Muschamp was such a tragedy as Mack seems to hang around. not saying MB is past his due date but when you name a HCIW....might be, but i dunno.

[Terry in Crapchester]

terry,

What Mack did say was that the conf won't take anyone that isn't a full member.

He's wrong on that point, at least when it comes to speaking in such absolute terms. There definitely have been discussions about ND joining the Big XII for all sports except football. http://articles.southbendtribune.com/20 ... notre-dame Granted, there's a long way to go from holding discussions to ND actually joining the conference under those terms. And truth be told, when push comes to shove, ND might not get the votes to join the conference without football. West Virginia was particularly opposed to ND's relationship with the Big East, and the Big XII schools may view it as creating a possibility for Texas to go independent while leaving the conference around as a landing place for basketball and olympic sports. But to say that the Big XII wouldn't even consider partial membership for ND is just plain erroneous.

He also indicated that ND's deal with NBC wouldn't preclude them from joining.

I agree with this. NBC traditionally has taken a hands-off approach to ND's scheduling. However, I think the more salient question is whether joining the Big XII would prevent ND from honoring its obligations under the NBC deal.

I think the answer to that question is yes, unless the NBC deal can be reworked considerably. If ND joins the Big XII for football, let's not forget that ND's Tier I and Tier II TV rights would then belong to the Big XII. In a nutshell, that means that NBC would have no chance at Texas-ND, Oklahoma-ND, and, if ND continues to play them on an OOC basis, Michigan-ND and USC-ND. That's at a minimum. I'm not sure that NBC will want to limit itself to two ND games per year, which is about all it will get if it's restricted to Tier III TV rights.

Now, if ND football were to remain independent, it would be a completely different story.

Still, the larger question is why? Why would ND join a football conference at this point in time? If anything, I think ND's position, in terms of its ability to remain independent long-term, has been strengthened by recent developments. The four-team playoff model leaves a path to the playoff for ND without joining a conference. And in years where ND fails to qualify for the playoff, they now have the Orange Bowl as a possible fallback. Yes, they probably will have to meet certain minimum requirements, but given that the Orange Bowl is also locked into the ACC champ, and most ACC teams don't travel particularly well, ND's role in the Orange Bowl game is primarily to put butts in the seats and pairs of eyeballs in front of TV sets. Given that set of facts, I tend to believe that the minimum requirements for ND to play in the Orange Bowl will be less than they are for AQ status in the BCS. I think an 8-4 record would do the trick. What would an 8-4 season get ND this year? A berth in the Pinstripe Bowl, against the #4 selection from the Big East -- if the Big XII is unable to fill its quota of bowl-eligible teams, that is.

I can think of only two reasons why ND would even look at joining a football conference right now. First, if NBC decides that it won't renew ND's deal, and there is no corresponding offer from another network. That, of course, would more or less force ND's hand. But I haven't heard anything to that effect, and ND still has four more years to run on the current NBC deal. The second scenario is if no conference would permit partial membership to ND, and ND's athletic department decided that the interests of basketball and olympic sports trumped ND football. In any event, there always will be non-football conference affiliation options available for ND, although those may be less advantageous than one of the higher-level football conferences (e.g., the Atlantic 10, also the non-football playing members of the Big East could form a so-called Catholic Conference should the Big East split up).

Even if ND is talking about its football team staying independent and putting basketball/olympic sports in the Big XII, I still question whether this is a good idea. The issue should be about what is best for basketball and olympic sports. Conference tie-ins for the postseason are considerably less relevant to ND now than in the past, given the changes to college football's postseason and where ND wound up as a result. And if TPTB at ND believe that ND should have more Big XII football schools on its schedule (I've heard as many as six games per year being discussed under the potential deal with the Big XII), then the football team ought to be able to sell the merits of a series with ND on its own, particularly given that a home-and-home guarantees any team in the country one of two games on national TV, and the possibility of a significant regional telecast for the other. Basketball, both men's and women's, would take a hit in the Big XII. The biggest issue would be recruiting -- in the areas where ND typically recruits most successfully, it's much easier to get kids excited about playing in the Big East than it is to get them excited about playing in the Big XII. Also, the Big XII doesn't sponsor men's soccer, men's or women's lacrosse, or women's rowing, so all of those sports would have to find new homes at ND. The biggest sport at ND that would be impacted in a positive manner by a move to the Big XII is baseball, But there again, the impending changes in the Big East probably improve baseball for the better in that conference (UCF and SMU have respectable baseball programs; Syracuse, by contrast, doesn't even field a baseball team), so the gap between the Big XII and Big East in that sport will actually narrow somewhat.

Going back to a point you made earlier, I've never heard ND say that a CCG was a deal-breaker when it comes to joining a conference for football. And while I don't have access to the inner workings of Swarbrick's athletic development, I try to follow this issue somewhat closely. Remember, ND almost became the 12th member of the ACC awhile back (although that was under a different AD and was nearly a decade ago, so I guess it's possible that some things have changed since then.) I don't doubt Swarbrick might have said that, but there's a danger, I think, in reading too much into what he says. Last year, most of the denizens of ND's homerboards (and more than a few posters here) had our bags packed for the B1G when Swarbrick made comments about the B1G that weren't the verbal equivalent of a one-finger salute.

If one were to assume that maintaining football independence, if possible, is one of the goals of ND's athletic department, then one has to take the position that continuation of the status quo probably benefits ND in that regard. And due to its desirability for a number of conferences, ND has been able to achieve a more or less uneasy stalemate when it comes to conference realignment. Now, this is only my opinion, but I think that if the next wave of conference realignment ever does come, the ACC will be decimated. I think the ACC stands to lose 4-8 members in that move to the Big XII, the SEC, and possibly the B1G. After that, I think the next domino to fall would be a merger between what remains of the ACC and the eastern football-playing members of the Big East. That would end the Big East as we know it, and the new conference might not allow hybrid membership. That, of course, places ND in potential jeopardy. Given the Big XII's low membership total, as well as its recent flirtation with Florida State (which is the piece that potentially causes the ACC to unravel), it makes sense that ND might say whatever it can to keep the Big XII from casting eyes at the ACC. Smh.

Fuck it, let the Pac 12 take in ND during the next round of expansion. That's a much more natural fit for ND than the Big XII could ever be, whether it's academics, rivalries, campus cultures, whatever. The B1G still makes the most sense for ND in those regards, but the Pac is ahead of the XII there.

Agree with you that the Big XII isn't a real great fit for ND when it comes to rivalries, culture, etc. But if ND decides it wants to join a football conference (which I'm not even sure is the case, let alone should be the case, but I'll still play), then the Big XII might be its only realistic option. Eliminate all the non-AQ BCS conferences off the top. From there:

SEC: Do I even really need to explain this one?

Pac-12: Unless a football-only option exists, this would be a non-starter. Travel is too expensive and time-consuming for olympic sports.

B1G: From the perspective of ND's fanbase, this conference plays the role of AP in any conference determination. Too much historical bad blood here, and even ESPN has acknowledged that it would not be in ND's best interests to pigeonhole itself into the midwest as much as conference membership here would.

Big East: Too unstable, and no marquee programs, unless one counts Boise State, which quite clearly is a new kid on the block in that regard.

ACC: Florida State's recent flirtation with the Big XII exposed the instability in this conference, which is considerably greater than it looked to be, say, six months ago. Not nearly as good a cultural fit as many among ND's fanbase make it out to be -- recent expansions notwithstanding, this remains a southern conference at its heart.

By process of elimination, that leaves the Big XII, which also was racked by rumors of instability in the past. But with Texas and Oklahoma now apparently firmly committed to the Big XII, this conference may have gotten much more stable in a hurry.

Btw, one of the reasons why I'm opposed to ND joining a conference is that I don't see any of the existing conferences as being a good fit for ND. I haven't changed my mind about that.

[Van]

Terry, perhaps Mack Brown isn't wrong on that point, and rather you are. It's entirely possible and, in fact, likely the case that he knows more than some columnist from the South Bend Tribune regarding the outcome of any such discussions. Maybe he has firsthand knowledge that the option of adding ND as a football-only member has already been dismissed in absolute terms by the Big XII.

[Terry in Crapchester]

Jeebus, Van, do you honestly think the SB Trib article was the only link on the interwebs supporting my post? I just linked the first site I found. Here are some others:

http://espn.go.com/blog/notre-dame-foot ... ourting-nd
http://texas.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1377426
http://www.masslive.com/sports/index.ss ... ng_to.html

And I noticed that you completely ignored my other thoughts. ND is certainly in a better position to preserve its independence than it was, say, six months ago. The postseason changes worked out to ND's advantage. There's a possible path to the playoffs open for ND without conference membership. And when ND fails to qualify for the playoff, ND has the Orange Bowl as a fallback position, again not relying on conference affiliation. And the NBC deal doesn't expire for another four seasons. Against that backdrop, why would ND even be looking for football conference membership right now?

And there's also the point you brought up earlier: why would ND consider the Big XII? Again, I think that goes back, at least in part, to the fact that the Big XII has said that it would consider ND without football. Both the B1G and the ACC have made it clear that they won't.

Maybe he has firsthand knowledge that the option of adding ND as a football-only member has already been dismissed in absolute terms by the Big XII.

As Brian Kelly once said, these decisions are made above the coach's paygrade. I'd give this more credibility had it come from Dodds than Brown. But it didn't.

[Van]

Terry, in the SEC and Big XII there is no "above the coach's paygrade." Mack Brown's salary dwarfs that of DeLoss Dodd or any other member of the UT administration. For that matter, it dwarfs that of any State of Texas employee, period, including the Governor.

You can be certain that not a goddamn thing goes on concerning Texas football and any potential additions to the Big XII without Mack Brown's firsthand knowledge and direct input. If he says he knows something ain't happening, then it ain't happening.

[Terry in Crapchester]

Mack's salary may be higher than Dodds' (and almost certainly dwarfs the Governor's), but that's irrelevant to the discussion at hand. Mack's job is to get the team ready to play the teams on the schedule. It's more a function of the athletic director to determine who's on the schedule, both within the conference and out of the conference.

Between practices, meetings, other training sessions, breaking down film, speaking to alumni/fan groups, etc., coaches work insane hours as it is. I don't think Mack has enough time left in the day to have his hand directly in discussions between ND and the rest of the Big XII.

[Left Seater]

Terry,

You make valid points especially regarding the TV and Orange Bowl tie in. What I can't get past is that Brown is a smart guy and brought this up without being prompted. He isn't doing that unless he knows something you and I don't.

As far as Brown vs DeLoss, I agree with you for the most part, but Brown has a huge say in the schedule. Brown and Peyton's dad were seated at a fundraiser together and by the end of the night had basically agreed to the Ole Miss Texas series.

[King Crimson]

no way Mack Brown has more powa at UT than Deloss Dodds. though, apparently DD wan't to hire Gary Barnett who had just won the Big Ten twice. buncha shit on UT boards, i don't remember. so maybe some acrimony there....

Mack gave up 60 twice to Oklahoma. Sure, he got them the first NC since most people on this board were born, who aren't SEC fans were born....no way Mack is bigger than DeLoss. Mack is a great guy, but he's only been ever as good as the best coordinators you can buy. and that's been on D....Chizik and Muschamp.

Greg Davis was his buddy.

Mack is in trouble unless he beats OU this year.

i'm not a big fan of the UT was all VY thing in 2005, because that was a very good UT D. look at NFL rosters.

too bad 2005 Texas never got to play a great OU team, all i'm saying.

DeLoss is a creepy power. would not sleep on DeLoss over Mack at this point.

[Left Seater]

I never said Mack had more power than DeLoss. Rather I just said that Mack has a big say in the schedule as it is being put together.

Rumor has it that Royal didn't want Gary Barnett, but that is just a rumor.

I also couldn't disagree more with you regarding this year's OU game.

Texas should and most likely will lose that game. Texas will still win 9 or so this season and Mack is fine. He has a guaranteed contract thru 2020 which pays $5.2 Million this season and increases by $100K each season. So, no, unless he loses say three in a row to OU he will be fine.

[King Crimson]

maybe lefty, but i'm just saying the thought is in people's heads about Mack when the guy used to be as bullet-proof as you could be after 2005. losing again to OU won't make that smaller. i like a lot of UT's young talent on D, but still have no answer at QB outside Ash and McCoy...something about the Muschamp thing didn't make sense...tells me something is out of kilter inside the program re: Mack staying around.

even though you are a bit of a closet horn fan, we both know how front-runner and entitlement oriented Texas fan can be....ain't saying it's right, but how it is.

[Harvdog]

When Barnett was being thrown about as as possible coach at Texas, there were some serious issues in the program. Mackovic has alienated all the high school coaches in the state. He was an arrogant ass. He acted like he was better than them. RC had a field day and got all the best talent because he would relate to the coaches. Do think a coach from Robert Lee, Texas will relate to RC Slocum better or a coach who just took a job and came in from Illinois? All the top recruits were either going to A&M or out of state. That needed to change.

Texas wanted that arrogance gone. They wanted to get back to getting the pick of all the recruits in the state. When Gary Barnett was interviewed, he had the same attitude as John Mackovic. Word was that Barnett no-showed the 1st interview and acted like it was a waste of his time to come to Texas. He was a "yankee" and had the attitude to match. DKR and the board of regents didn't care for him. DD wanted the hottest name on the market because he too was feeling the heat from the lack of success in sports. Penders was struggling and his big baseball hire hadn't done shit.

Mack was brought in and immediately connected with the BOR and more importantly DKR. Mack came from a coaching family and that is what Texas wanted to get back to. When DKR says "We need you" that is pretty strong to pass up when you grew up idolizing DKR. The rest is history.

Mack isn't going anywhere. He has played for 2 MNC and won 1. They screwed the pooch in recruiting by only looking at 5* kids and going with them. He has a renewed vigor with his staff. Harsin and Applewhite will run an innovative offense that will resemble Alabama but with the typical "Boise" gadget plays. The defense will be lights out. Our biggest issue will be QB. If Ash or McCoy can figure out how to pass for 15-20 TD's and throw less than 10 INT's.....we will win 10 games. The defense will be that good.

[Van]

Alabama's offense is "innovative"? Well, okay, I suppose, as long as one considers the notion of simply lining up bigger, stronger, faster players and instructing them to ram the ball down the throats of smaller, weaker, slower opponents "innovative."

I'd call that notion "as old as the hills," but that's just me.

[Harvdog]

Alabama's offense is "innovative"? Well, okay, I suppose, as long as one considers the notion of simply lining up bigger, stronger, faster players and instructing them to ram the ball down the throats of smaller, weaker, slower opponents "innovative."

I'd call that notion "as old as the hills," but that's just me.

Since we are limited at QB, we need to alter the offense to its strengths. We have 2 solid RB's and a stud Freshman coming in. To say we will be a run heavy team is an understatement. Alabama has won with good line play, a solid run game and average QB play. That is what we need. We have a solid oline, a good running game, play makers at WR.....we just need a QB good enough to make the throws.

The innovation will be all the trick plays that Harsin and Applewhite will throw out there to keep the defenses honest. If we had an above average QB, I would be more confident with the defense we have coming back. I am just not sold on either QB.