I thought Al Davis died last week

Cueball · Post by **Cueball** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:58 pm

A trade from beyond the Black Hole
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/71181 ... ources-say

trev · Post by **trev** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 4:26 pm

Denied?

ChargerMike · Post by **ChargerMike** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 4:38 pm

Campbell had the team behind him and playing well, it's unfortunate he went down on a scramble. Palmer however is no slouch and the Duhs should continue their climb back to respectability under him. Two first rounders??? what else could they do bring in Trent Edwards?

R-Jack · Post by **R-Jack** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 4:46 pm

M2 wrote: By the way, I feel sorry for the Cleveland Browns.

Their division rival gets 2 high-value picks after they knocked out Jason Campbell.

Don't worry. The fans will find a way to blame LeBron.

Paul · Post by **Paul** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 4:50 pm

TWO 1st round picks for Carson Palmer???? PLEASE GOD make this happen. :twisted:

ChargerMike · Post by **ChargerMike** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 4:52 pm

R-Jack wrote:
M2 wrote: By the way, I feel sorry for the Cleveland Browns.

Their division rival gets 2 high-value picks after they knocked out Jason Campbell.
Don't worry. The fans will find a way to blame LeBron.

that's a rack

R-Jack · Post by **R-Jack** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 5:02 pm

Tbh, I was more concerned with the lack of overall picks in the next draft than I am about giving up the 1st rounders.

Any gains that may be made with Palmer under center may be negated by the lack of depth in the next 2-3 years. That's what you need those picks for.

I like the Raiders current progress, but this trade is Hue pushing his chips to the middle of the table and I don't think he has the team to do that with yet.

Van · Post by **Van** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 5:53 pm

Depends on a few things...

1. How long does it take Palmer to become comfortable running a new offense? Sure, he has some history with Hue Jackson, but that little bit of time they spent together in Cincinnati when Hue was the WR coach will have little bearing on this situation.

2. How much gas does he have left in the tank? Some sources continue to talk about his huge arm while others express growing doubts regarding his ability to stretch a defense.

3. Can he overcome his recent penchant for seeming to play a bit tentatively, post-surgery? Unless he can regain the fire and focus he had before the knee injury, this is all moot.

4. Can he remain upright and healthy? Few if any Oakland QBs have managed this trick in recent years, and Carson Palmer isn't exactly the king of 'escapability,' nor has he been the picture of physical sturdiness these past few seasons. One flukish play where he bangs his throwing hand on an opponent's helmet...one bad fall, a la Jason Campbell...one D-Lineman rolling him up awkwardly...and it's all over. The Raiders will have mortgaged their future for a present that never happened.

Sirfindafold · Post by **Sirfindafold** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 6:51 pm

KC Scott wrote:.....but it could guarantee they can compete with SD

the same team they swept last year? yeah I guess they could.

you're a fuckin' jerkoff.

Van · Post by **Van** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 7:05 pm

They swept SD last year with Jason Campbell handling the majority of the snaps, not a back-up who'd barely seen the field all season. Having to use a rusty Kyle Boller for this year's games would not have been an equivalent situation.

Then again, Carson Palmer is even rustier than Kyle Boller, so who knows whether that even constitutes an upgrade?

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:00 pm

Van wrote:Then again, Carson Palmer is even rustier than Kyle Boller, so who knows whether that even constitutes an upgrade?

Palmer concerns me a lot more than does Boller and not just for this next Sunday though I'm plenty concerned about that already.

Felix · Post by **Felix** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:38 pm

Boller was a decent enough thrower, but fumbles the ball more than dave "tiny hands" krieg.....the ravens treated him like an ugly 18 year old looking for a prom date and that had to square his confidence right in the nads....but, he knows the duh's offense, which is more than can be said for Palmer

2 first round picks? fuck denver would have probably sent orton to them for a pair of cleats and a carton of lucky strikes

mvscal · Post by **mvscal** » Wed Oct 19, 2011 1:38 am

KC Scott wrote:They swept the division -

...and finished in 3rd place in the division. Now they just got buttfucked by one of the dumbest ass clowns ever associated with the NFL.

mvscal · Post by **mvscal** » Wed Oct 19, 2011 1:40 am

Van wrote:3. Can he overcome his recent penchant for seeming to play a bit tentatively, post-surgery? Unless he can regain the fire and focus he had before the knee injury, this is all moot.

The ripped up knee isn't the problem The problem is the ripped up elbow of his throwing arm.

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Wed Oct 19, 2011 1:55 am

Scott

I don't, I can't, I won't see it that way.

Not to get up on a soapbox, but the only game that means anything, ever... is the next one.

That may seem naive to you and perhaps it is, but neither you or I are guaranteed to see next week, much less next year.

If you enjoy watching the NFL and rooting for your team, then do it while you can regardless of circumstance.

Fuck the Rai-duhs, btw.

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Wed Oct 19, 2011 2:04 am

First off, it's a great deal for the Bengals - as Van noted in the other thread.
That means it a very bad deal for the Raiders, right?

Well, it might be.

Oakland's compensation for this guy seems to be what it might have been in... 2005.
It's been 4 or 5 years since he's been GREAT.
How much of that is to be blamed on the whole Cincinnati enviornment?
That's part of it, for sure.
Partly also - that he's broken down physically and he's not a kid anymore.

Looks like a desperation move by Oakland and they got fleeced by Cincy.

All that aside, it's an exciting addition - right now.
He's obviously better than Boller and should be, when right, better than Campbell, also.

Oakland has put together a nice O-Line, they've got one of the best backs in the league, and they've got some good up-and-coming young skill players.
Hue Jackson and Al Saunders have their offensive shit together, to say the least.
Drop a very competent QB in to this ---> and it's gonna be fun to watch.

It's ON, bitches!

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Wed Oct 19, 2011 2:44 am

poptart wrote:It's ON, bitches!

That it is.

I was going to start a thread about it being Chiefs-Raiders week, like old times, 'cept it's not.

I was this >-< close, but then realized nobody cares and some Chiefs fans are rooting for draft picks instead.

Guess this thread might have to suffice for what used to be some rather epic throwdowns between the fanbases.

Raider James is still gay, btw.

Van · Post by **Van** » Wed Oct 19, 2011 2:47 am

mvscal wrote:
Van wrote:3. Can he overcome his recent penchant for seeming to play a bit tentatively, post-surgery? Unless he can regain the fire and focus he had before the knee injury, this is all moot.
The ripped up knee isn't the problem The problem is the ripped up elbow of his throwing arm.

mvscal, one recurrent theory I've read over the past couple of years regarding Palmer's spotty play has pointed to his seeming hesitancy to plant his feet and hang in the pocket long enough to deliver the ball before taking the hit. Rather than stepping into his throws the way he used to pre-knee injury, he's shown a tendency to fall away and deliver passes from across his body or off his back foot. The thinking goes that he's developed a case of 'happy feet' as a result of his destroyed knee and the worry of having to go through a similar ordeal again. Whether true or not, this particular quirk is completely unrelated to his known elbow issues.

Joe in PB · Post by **Joe in PB** » Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:05 am

I'd say Hue Jackson agreed with my take in the other thread, the Raiduhs had a great chance to win the AFC West before Campbell went down. Why else trade away 2 of their 4 highest draft selections in the next two years for Palmer? With the Chargers once again sleep walking through the regular season, Denver already preparing for 2012, & KC being led by a dead man walking, I can see why. Not to mention they are improved from last season.

The question is how much does Palmer have left? Watching him last season, it didn't look like much. Most games he had trouble moving the team except in garbage time, struggling with accuracy, losing zip on the ball, and sailing passes. I'm not sure he can throw the deep ball as well as Campbell, it will be good news for the primer & soot if he can. The price looks too steep considering they probably could have gotten Roethlisberger a couple of years ago before the draft, for the same price. The division this season should go down to the wire.

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:21 am

There are plenty of questions about Palmer, Joe and Van, no doubt.
I definitely question whether Palmer 2011 (and not having played a game for what, 250 days?) is a whole lot more than an average QB right now.

Giving up what they did, Oakland must think he can be very good/great for a few more years.

And there's maybe also the idea Hue Jackson might have that this current team is CLOSE and this is a seize the moment opportunity.
You better have the balls to jump on it.

You get a guy who may be able to elevate the QB position enough that you can legitimately challenge for a title RIGHT NOW.

I dunno, really.

It's a gamble, giving up as much as they did.

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:28 am

Wagon wrote:I was going to start a thread about it being Chiefs-Raiders week, like old times, 'cept it's not.

I was this >-< close, but then realized nobody cares and some Chiefs fans are rooting for draft picks instead.

As a fan, I go with your attitude, also, Wagon.

I'm concerned about winning THIS WEEK, even if we're sitting at 2-7 or something.

Just the way some of us are wired.

Yer a Fuckin Jerkoff · Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:28 am

Remind me again how many playoff games Palmer has won?

mvscal · Post by **mvscal** » Wed Oct 19, 2011 4:05 am

Van wrote:mvscal, one recurrent theory I've read over the past couple of years regarding Palmer's spotty play has pointed to his seeming hesitancy to plant his feet and hang in the pocket long enough to deliver the ball before taking the hit. Rather than stepping into his throws the way he used to pre-knee injury, he's shown a tendency to fall away and deliver passes from across his body or off his back foot. The thinking goes that he's developed a case of 'happy feet' as a result of his destroyed knee and the worry of having to go through a similar ordeal again. Whether true or not, this particular quirk is completely unrelated to his known elbow issues.

I've read that, too, but it's a crock of hyperanalyzed crap. He put up back to back 4,000 yard seasons after the knee injury with passer ratings of 93.9 and 86.7.

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Wed Oct 19, 2011 4:38 am

Jerkoff wrote:Remind me again how many playoff games Palmer has won?

The Bungles went to the playoffs in '05 and lost to Pitty - who won it all.

They went again in '09 and lost to the Jets, who obviously overmatched them.

This is not tennis ---> where it's one all up to ONE man.

It's a TEAM sport.

P. Manning was a playoff loser for a long time, remember?

trev · Post by **trev** » Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:11 am

To tell you the truth I don't like this news one bit. Not at all.

mvscal · Post by **mvscal** » Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:24 am

poptart wrote:
Jerkoff wrote:Remind me again how many playoff games Palmer has won?
The Bungles went to the playoffs in '05 and lost to Pitty - who won it all.

In no small part due to Palmer getting his knee torn up at the beginning of the game. Palmer anywhere close to 100% is twice the QB Campbell is, but a 1st and a 2nd is a seriously ridiculous price to pay. You don't do a sell out deal like that unless the player is the final, missing piece of the puzzle to get you to the Superbowl.

Is Palmer that player and are the Duhs that close? I'd say not.

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:30 am

Cueball wrote:I thought Al Davis died last week

This is actually very funny.

Just days after the old man dies, the Raiders pull off two CLASSIC "Al Davis" moves.

- The deal to bring the maligned former high draft pick (A. Curry) in for a rebirth in Silver & Black

- The deal to bring the talented former #1 overall draft choice in for... well, a rebirth in Silver & Black, also

Most of you only know of Hue Jackson from small bits you see through the media, but he's a very interesting guy in a lot of ways.
Grew up in a horseshit, ghetto enviornment ---> kept his head about himself and worked his way OUT of it.

And the guy honestly had a genuine admiration for Al Davis.
Maybe because he hadn't been hosed yet, who knows.

EVERY public appearance he makes - post games, press conference, whatever... he shows up wearing Silver and Black.
Black suit, silver tie, etc.
It's tits, man.

He said he was carrying things on in Al's honor, and these moves show that he's walking the walk.

Raydah James · Post by **Raydah James** » Wed Oct 19, 2011 7:02 am

mvscal wrote: In no small part due to Palmer getting his knee torn up at the beginning of the game. Palmer anywhere close to 100% is twice the QB Campbell is, but a 1st and a 2nd is a seriously ridiculous price to pay. You don't do a sell out deal like that unless the player is the final, missing piece of the puzzle to get you to the Superbowl.

Is Palmer that player and are the Duhs that close? I'd say not.

Totally agreed, mv....with the exception of that last question you posed that has yet to be answered.

Did we give up too much? Definitely. Im pissed....but on the other hand, our choices were extremely slim to finish 8-8 with Boller under center, and the other viable options were nearly non-existant. Favre? V. Young? Garrard had back surgery so the options become even more limited and Brown, ubertard that he is, still has the incredible leverage to ask for the bounty he recieved and stubbornly stand pat waiting for it.

The funny thing is that if we were to match up vs. the Bengals in the playoffs, he'd make sure his boys rolled over for the higher pick.

We have a franchise back in Run DMC, another very good back in Bush, a young and fast WR core that is blossoming and doing very well, a stud FB who is the fastest in the L in Reece, the very good vet TE in Boss, and a young, stud O-line that is the real deal and has protected Campbell excellently and blown holes open for DMac left and right.

On Defense, I feel we need a solid vet CB (not C. Johnson...fucking penalty machine), but we are stacked on the front lines, and adding Curry was a great move-he had 3 days to digest the playbook and was much much better than Q. Groves at OLB in his first game with us. Our other LB's are excellent. Our corners are young and inexperienced, which concerns me greatly. Routt is very good though, and has done well taking over for Aso.

The other side remains a ?, and while the rooks have performed well (Chewka and DVD), they have made some mental errors that cost us. Huff is a bonafide stud who will be in the pro-bowl and has finally blossomed into the player Al envisioned when he drafted him. Mitchell is also very good, but has been hurt on and off this season, which has left the door open for Branch, who fucking sucks.

Mv, the only position we have needed an upgrade at is the most important one on the field-QB. Palmer is light years ahead of Campbell at the position, and immediately makes us true contenders. We are young, fast and talented with just the right mix of a few championship winning veterans in key spots. The time is now, and the right move was made.

Pop, Hue was born a Raider.......I truly love the guy as our coach.

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Wed Oct 19, 2011 7:10 am

Yeah, you can make a case that Oakland is very close to being a legit contender and that a QB upgrade was one thing that might keep them back.
They are STURDY up front on both offense and defense.
Speed out the ass, also.
Oakland has always fielded a fast team, but this one... wow, go down the roster and it's got to be scary for an opposing coach to look at.

For sure, Palmer has a lot of fun offensive toys to play with, and VERY capable offensive coaching/playcalling in Jackson and Saunders.

If he can't get it done now, he really IS shot.

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Wed Oct 19, 2011 10:20 am

Couple more thoughts...

Might seem like this all went down in a very quick and frantic 48 hours, but Jackson (and the Raiders) have been keeping close watch on Palmer for some time now.
The fact that Jackson has a close history with both Palmer and Brown made for this deal to actually happen.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdo ... nfl-wp9852

"Coach Jackson leaned on me heavily through this process, and they definitely kept tabs on him," Gaines said of Palmer.

My guess at this point is that Boller will start v. KC and then Palmer will prepare himself through the bye week to be ready to start at home v. the Mules on Nov. 6th.

I don't completely rule out the possibility that Palmer might go v. KC this Sunday, however.
Just not really expecting that, though.

Btw, the Chief game will be another knock-down drag-out battle chapter in this storied rivalry, imo.

I look for a 3 pt game - could go either way.

Big game.

ucantdoitdoggieSTyle2 · Wed Oct 19, 2011 2:12 pm

poptart wrote:First off, it's a great deal for the Bengals - as Van noted in the other thread.
That means it a very bad deal for the Raiders, right?

Well, it might be.

Might be? Dude... you are fucked. To put this into context for you:

The going rate this year -- Brandon Lloyd (an actual impact player) was traded for a 6th round pick.

The Chiefs traded their 1st round pick to the Niners for Joe Montana, some dude I never heard of, and a 3rd round pick.

To trade a 1st and a 2nd (or 1st) for some guy with a possible knee/arm issues is downright stupid. We're not talking Herschel Walker/Ricky Williams level of fleecing here, but the Raiders definitely took it in the ass on this trade. I am not sure Tom Brady could have been traded for two firsts, nevermind this can't throw a deep ball to save his life loser. Highway fucking robbery.

ucantdoitdoggieSTyle2 · Wed Oct 19, 2011 2:34 pm

Palmer, who has completed 62.9 percent of his career passes, struggled in 2010. He threw 20 interceptions. His 23 turnovers were the fourth most among all NFL quarterbacks, according to ESPN Stats & Information. His last statistically strong season was in 2007, the season before he missed 12 games with a serious elbow injury. Jackson last coached Palmer in 2006.

Palmer’s completion percentage, yards per attempt, yards per game and touchdown-to-interception ratio have slipped in the past three years, according to ESPN Stats & Information. From 2004 to '07, Palmer threw 104 touchdowns. He has thrown 50 touchdown passes the past three seasons combined. Palmer's Total QBR for 2010 was 46.2, good for 25th best in the NFL.

Since 2008, Palmer has struggled against seven or more defenders in coverage, according to ESPN Stats & Information. He's averaged 6.5 yards per attempt in those situations, which is 29th best in the NFL.

trev · Post by **trev** » Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:33 pm

Toddowen wrote:G0D help this forum if The Raiders win the next three games, with Palmer taking the reins for the game against SD. The boasting will become so over the top that it'll create a hatred of Oakland not seen in years.

Yeah...I'm kinda hoping for it.

God help us all. And we will see Raider fan coming out of the woodwork like no other.

I don't like this scenario. I'm a Raider hater and I think the trade is a win win for both Cincy and the Duhs.

Van · Post by **Van** » Wed Oct 19, 2011 4:01 pm

poptart wrote:He said he was carrying things on in Al's honor, and these moves show that he's walking the walk.

If I'm a Raider fan, that's the single most troubling thing I could ever read about the guy. His desire to perpetuate a Commitment to Stupidity does not bode well for the future.

Look, all we've been (rightfully) hearing for the past half-decade or so is that the Raiders will never return to prominence as long as Al Davis is running the show. Clearly, the implication has been that he was doing things the wrong way: wrongheaded philosophies, wrong draft choices, wrong gameplans, wrong FE signings...just wrong, wrong, wrong.

Nothing but fail.

So, now the Raiders are finally going to escape this morass of proven suck by sticking to Al's Plan?

Yeah, good luck with that. For the sake of solid Raider fans—quit laughing...yes, there are a few out there—I really hope that Raider management as well as Hue Jackson eventually turn the page and accept the realities of life in the NFL, circa the 21st century.

Raydah James · Post by **Raydah James** » Wed Oct 19, 2011 4:21 pm

Van wrote:
poptart wrote:He said he was carrying things on in Al's honor, and these moves show that he's walking the walk.
If I'm a Raider fan, that's the single most troubling thing I could ever read about the guy. His desire to perpetuate a Commitment to Stupidity does not bode well for the future.

Look, all we've been (rightfully) hearing for the past half-decade or so is that the Raiders will never return to prominence as long as Al Davis is running the show. Clearly, the implication has been that he was doing things the wrong way: wrongheaded philosophies, wrong draft choices, wrong gameplans, wrong FE signings...just wrong, wrong, wrong.

Nothing but fail.

So, now the Raiders are finally going to escape this morass of proven suck by sticking to Al's Plan?

Yeah, good luck with that. For the sake of solid Raider fans—quit laughing...yes, there are a few out there—I really hope that Raider management as well as Hue Jackson eventually turn the page and accept the realities of life in the NFL, circa the 21st century.

Shut the fuck up, toolbelt. Nobody gives a smooth, savory fuck what you think about the Raiders in any way, shape or form.

You're the very definition of a pussy-you have no pro NFL sports team to speak of, yet you lob weak drippers and talk shit on the ones you despise.....even going as far as to question the ability and health of one of your few legitimate heisman trophy winning former players in the process. Stick to crying in your beer on Saturdays while $C gets handled by Az State (

) and does dick for the next 5-10 years. You're a weapons grade fail at the NFL level.

Now get back to the fucking register and ring up that DVD of "Biker Boyz" and neon green footpegs to yet another tard, you pathetic old burnout.

Van · Post by **Van** » Wed Oct 19, 2011 4:52 pm

Raydah James wrote:Shut the fuck up, toolbelt. Nobody gives a smooth, savory fuck what you think about the Raiders in any way, shape or form.

Obviously you do, as evidenced by your C&P-ing my entire response before responding to it.

Be proud, Lowest Common Denominator fans, for here is your standard bearer, and he's just all kinds of greasy stupid.

You're the very definition of a pussy-you have no pro NFL sports team to speak of, yet you lob weak drippers and talk shit on the ones you despise.....even going as far as to question the ability and health of one of your few legitimate heisman trophy winning former players in the process.

Oh, I have an NFL team. I've rooted for them for forty years. They just suck, is all.

And I don't despise the Raiders at all. I'm rooting for them to succeed. I did despise the Al Davis we saw over the last decade, and so did you. At every turn, you agreed that they were going nowhere as long as he remained in charge.

So, basically, again, you're just all kinds of stupid, plus you're a special breed of hypocritical, disingenuous stupid.

Stick to crying in your beer on Saturdays while $C gets handled by Az State ( ) and does dick for the next 5-10 years.

This is true. I don't expect to see a return to prominence by USC until somewhere around 2020.

You're a weapons grade fail at the NFL level.

Seeing as how I've never played a down of football at the NFL level, this is also true. Then again, this is true of everyone here, including our esteemed hair-care product afficionado with the house full of mirrors surrounding his tanning bed.

You do realize, don't you, that you fairly well define 'repulsive.'

Now get back to the fucking register and ring up that DVD of "Biker Boyz" and neon green footpegs to yet another tard, you pathetic old burnout.

Your spreadsheet is just a bit off. Be that as it may, and speaking of pathetic old burnouts, go slap on that jizz-crusty VHS tape of the 1983 season, which you're still using in an effort to find some sort of solace for being a fan of the team that most perfectly embodies everything you stand for as this board's preeminent silver-and-black-sportin' cum dumpster.

Raydah James · Post by **Raydah James** » Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:54 pm

I did despise the Al Davis we saw over the last decade, and so did you. At every turn, you agreed that they were going nowhere as long as he remained in charge.

This is true, however I had never seen you "root" for them to succeed when I was posting regularly on this board. If you have changed your stance since then, I apologize.

So, basically, again, you're just all kinds of stupid, plus you're a special breed of hypocritical, disingenuous stupid.

Really? You're better than this D- shit you ripped from "The big bang theory" show.

Your spreadsheet is just a bit off.

Its been awhile, so yeah, it probably is. Last I saw, you were at a crotch rocket shop peddling neon garbage to untrained braindead kids who'd subsequently lay thier ride down in your parking lot, no? By all means, update the board Van. Still doing the same thing on my end here in Dego: Personal Training athletes and regular folk while making a pretty good living.

As far as this trade goes, ESPN keeps reporting that we "have no picks" until the 5th round. Wrong. We will be recieving compensatory picks in the 3rd and 4th rounds for the loss of Aso, Gallery, and Z. Miller. Alot is riding on Palmer, and I hope he answers the call. Time will tell.

Goober McTuber · Post by **Goober McTuber** » Wed Oct 19, 2011 6:04 pm

Raydah James wrote:Still doing the same thing on my end here in Dego:

Your hair was thinning 5 years ago. You must look like Mikey by now.

trev · Post by **trev** » Wed Oct 19, 2011 6:16 pm

Actually RJ has a stylin' haircut these days and looks pretty darn hot.

But love that the games have begun.

Raydah James · Post by **Raydah James** » Wed Oct 19, 2011 6:18 pm

Goober McTuber wrote: Your hair was thinning 5 years ago. You must look like Mikey by now.

Nah, its just that "bed head" hair glue spike crap that gives it that look. I have a full head of thick hair.

Should I wax it, G?

Carson is starting this week vs. the Chefs.....dont like that one fucking bit. We should be able to shred them with Palmer on the bench getting familiar with the playbook this week and next bye week.