Why Do We Need To Reform Health Care?

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JMak
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Re: Why Do We Need To Reform Health Care?

Post by JMak »

BSmack wrote:
JMak wrote:
BSmack wrote:When it comes to my health, I do not want a contract, I want a doctor. When it comes to my health, I want solutions, not contracts. What is so hard to understand about that?
In other words, you don't want insurance. So pay as you go, bitch. Sounds like an easy decision. Why don't you make it?
Wow, you really sold me with that. I think I'll take the chance I won't need major surgery next year and cancel my coverage. :meds:
Dumbass, you're the one who said you didn't want a contract, no? If you don't want a contract that necessarily means that you don't want insurance.

You fucking fool, you're the one who said he didn't want insurance. What was I supposed to sell you on?
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Re: Why Do We Need To Reform Health Care?

Post by ucantdoitdoggieSTyle2 »

JMak wrote:Dumbass, you're the one who said you didn't want a contract, no? If you don't want a contract that necessarily means that you don't want insurance.

Woah, woah, woah…. not so fast there, bro. All he said was… he wanted a doctor and solutions. He never said anything about paying for this stuff. It's supposed to be free... just like the milk, cookies, and pony rides The Messiah promised his minions.
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Re: Why Do We Need To Reform Health Care?

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Bsmack, how do you expect Barry's plan to be effectively monitored for fraud by ghetto PCPs? How does the gov't prove that Jose Garcia never came into the office if the doc says he had no ID to show proof of address or even identity? The doctor can make up a ficticiou appt for whatever he wants.

Level 5 office appt? - $125
Stitches to finger? - $350
Xray of hand (2 views) - $25

Not doing any of that shit and libs gladly paying for it? - priceless
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Re: Why Do We Need To Reform Health Care?

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Atomic Punk wrote:
LTS TRN 2 wrote: The American health care system is a huge racket and has been for a long time. One of the basic scams is for a patient to be shuttled about between a variety of doctors for all manner of expensive tests. The efforts of the huge pharmaceutical companies to stifle simple and cheap remedies by way of the Waiting For Godot FDA approval process is legendary. Moreover, the income of American doctors is as grossly out of whack as that of American CEOs. It's basically a twisted version of the Free Enterprise myth which would purport to legitimize and sanction such rapacious profiteering. And it's basically a crime.
What makes you qualified to comment about the VA or the health care industry in general? Now you are equating doctors pay to CEO's? You are a true whack job Nick. You don't know what the fuck you are talking about.
Really, punk? read up, bitch, and I'll pound your ass some more if you dare stick your head out of your hole.

Doctors Reap Benefits By Doing Own Tests

By Shankar Vedantam
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, July 31, 2009

In August 2005, doctors at Urological Associates, a medical practice on the Iowa-Illinois border, ordered nine CT scans for patients covered by Wellmark Blue Cross and Blue Shield insurance. In September that year, they ordered eight. But then the numbers rose steeply. The urologists ordered 35 scans in October, 41 in November and 55 in December. Within seven months, they were ordering scans at a rate that had climbed more than 700 percent.

The increase came in the months after the urologists bought their own CT scanner, according to documents obtained by The Washington Post. Instead of referring patients to radiologists, the doctors started conducting their own imaging -- and drawing insurance reimbursements for each of those patients.


This is typical, and the shuttling of patients between doctors for more and more tests, etc., runs up the tab much higher. It's been going on for years.
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Re: Why Do We Need To Reform Health Care?

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Re: Why Do We Need To Reform Health Care?

Post by Moving Sale »

ucantdoitdoggieSTyle2 wrote: It's supposed to be free... just like the milk, cookies, and pony rides The Messiah promised his minions.
Link?

Oh I get you you're joking. Actually you ARE a joke. Carry on you stupid pompous fuckhole.
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Re: Why Do We Need To Reform Health Care?

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JMak wrote: I dont watch Fox news, idiot. I don't subscribe to cable or satellite. But it's clear that you have no legit response here. Please point out how my statement regarding a specific set of benefits in the govt plan is false. I won't hold my breath.
okay, here's you're quote....
JMak wrote: Second, it requires Americans to purchase a specific government-designed set of benefits, even if that package was more expensive or contained benefits that you didn't want;
pure bullshit.....it provides people that are getting buttfucked in the mouth the opportunity to seek an alternative to their overpriced premiums....the government is not going to "require" anybody to give up their existing health insurance if one prefer's to keep it....so, there's your first fabrication
impose even more regulations on private insurers leading to higher premiums; extend government subsidies deep into the middle creating even more government dependency;
lie number 2-the government isn't going to IMPOSE anything on anybody they're simply going to give the public an alternative to Blue Cross/Blue Shield/Aetna/etc. which should force said companies to better complete in the open marketplace.....or are they afraid of having some competition?
impose huge new tax increases; and, most importantly, it would, inevitably lead to a national single-payer plan as employers dump employees from their benefit plans and individuals are priced out of the private insurance market leaving both groups to depend on Obamacare.
do you have any idea how much the current health care system costs us (the taxpayers) on a yearly basis.....smart employers are not going to be dumping their employees healthcare plan, not if they want to be competitive....why do you hate competition
Third, Obamacare will increase costs, not reduce costs.
I'm almost positive you have some statistical data to back up this claim, preferably from something other than a right wing hack that gins numbers up out of thin air.

Fuck you if you think this health care "reform" (ha!) is anything remotely close to good.
then don't buy it when it comes around, but then again if you aren't smart enough to have some kind of health care when some sort of calamitous health issue befalls you, don't come crying to anyone because you weren't smart enough to avail yourself of what was offered to you....
I have no problem with the insurance industry's profits...they're less than the banking sector, less than the IT sector, etc. Same reply I give when some know-nothing whines about Big Oil's profits.
and this somehow justifies the obscene profits they rake in....quite a stroke of logic you've got there hoss.....what the fuck are you some kind of shill for the insurance companies....
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Re: Why Do We Need To Reform Health Care?

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Feelsdix wrote:the government isn't going to IMPOSE anything on anybody
That's what government does, dumbfuck
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Re: Why Do We Need To Reform Health Care?

Post by Felix »

Cuda wrote:
That's what government does, dumbfuck

really, so you think the government is going to force you to give up your existing health plan and force you to get theirs?

Seriously, you're a colossal dumbfuck
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Re: Why Do We Need To Reform Health Care?

Post by smackaholic »

just a few little questions, felix?

Who's gonna pay for it? Do you think it will be supported by those paying permiums into it?

Let's say it all works just as advertised. What would keep current companies from bailing out of their existing plans and telling their employees to sign up for the gubmint one?
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Re: Why Do We Need To Reform Health Care?

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Felix wrote:pure bullshit.....it provides people that are getting buttfucked in the mouth the opportunity to seek an alternative to their overpriced premiums....the government is not going to "require" anybody to give up their existing health insurance if one prefer's to keep it....so, there's your first fabrication
Your say-so ain't good enough. Second, I didn't say the govt would require anyone giving anything. Had you understood the plain English I used...the proposed health care reform (really, health insurance reform now) will require insurers include plan benefits in all plans sold. It's the federal version of state mandates requiring insurers to, for example, include diabetes maintenance equipment/supplies in all plans sold in the state. In other words, the feds direct all insurers to include a baseline level of benefit coverage. In other words, the fed govt will be requiring each of us to purchase benefit coverage(s) whether we want them or not.
lie number 2-the government isn't going to IMPOSE anything on anybody they're simply going to give the public an alternative to Blue Cross/Blue Shield/Aetna/etc. which should force said companies to better complete in the open marketplace.....or are they afraid of having some competition?
Dumbshit...you're like Dingell and the rest of the Democrats, you have no idea what's even being proposed. Do you realize that the fed govt will not permit insurers to turn anyone away? In other words, insurers will not be able to deny coverage to anyone based on pre-existing conditions. In other other words, dumbshit, insurers will see their costs increase.
do you have any idea how much the current health care system costs us (the taxpayers) on a yearly basis.....smart employers are not going to be dumping their employees healthcare plan, not if they want to be competitive....why do you hate competition
Obamacare will cost even more than the current plan and will require rationing. I don't see why anyone would favor that.

And, employers will dump employees as their premium costs will go up. Just as employers dumped retiree health care Rx plans when Medicare Part D was implemented. Why bear a cost when the federal government will pay for it?
I'm almost positive you have some statistical data to back up this claim, preferably from something other than a right wing hack that gins numbers up out of thin air.
Fuckhead, have you not been paying attention? Have you seen the CBO's analysis of these proposals?
then don't buy it when it comes around, but then again if you aren't smart enough to have some kind of health care when some sort of calamitous health issue befalls you, don't come crying to anyone because you weren't smart enough to avail yourself of what was offered to you....
This is not health care reform. It is health care insurance reform now. It's tranitioned from a debate about how to better deliver care and outcomes to a discussion only about paying for health care.
and this somehow justifies the obscene profits they rake in....quite a stroke of logic you've got there hoss.....what the fuck are you some kind of shill for the insurance companies....
No, moron, I didn't say I was justifying their profits. I merely noted that the profits earned by insurance firms, just like Big Oil, pale in comparison to Trial Lawyers, Big Banks, Big IT, etc. I don't worry about it.

You should be paying attention to whats happening on this legislation, moron. Because, as of right now, you have no idea whats going on.
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Re: Why Do We Need To Reform Health Care?

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smackaholic wrote: Who's gonna pay for it?
the taxpayers of course, but if put together properly, we'd see economic benefits (as a nation) pretty quickly

the thing is, we're already paying for it just not realizing any benefits
Let's say it all works just as advertised. What would keep current companies from bailing out of their existing plans and telling their employees to sign up for the gubmint one?
The way it's currently written, many employers will receive tax incentives for keeping their existing health plans...and employee health care plans are one of the perks that many job seekers look for when accepting a position with a particular company....kind of like 401ks, etc.
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Re: Why Do We Need To Reform Health Care?

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JMak wrote:
You should be paying attention to whats happening on this legislation, moron. Because, as of right now, you have no idea whats going on.
Like I said, the legislation is currently being watered down to the point that it won't make a bit of difference......health care costs will continue to rise at a rate that is 2.5 times the rate of inflation, we'll have fewer and fewer people insured, we'll have higher numbers of lawsuits against doctors, whose malpractice insurance costs will continue to increase, thus the doctors will have to charge higher rates for procedures, which will in turn force the insurance companies to continue to raise their rates and so on and so on....am I missing anything here with the STATUS QUO?

Been to an emergency room in a large city lately? Three-quarters of the people in there will never pay for whatever treatment they receive, so who do you think is going to pay for that? You guessed it, you and me in the form of higher procedural costs, or higher insurance costs

Look, I could give two fucks about it because ultimately it's not going to have an effect on me one way or the other (except that I'll be paying a higher percentage for my employer provided health care). If you're good with the way things are (and don't have any problem with the obscene profits insurance companies receive) by the time the dust settles, you'll be happy as a clam because nothing will have changed.
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Re: Why Do We Need To Reform Health Care?

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Felix wrote:Like I said, the legislation is currently being watered down to the point that it won't make a bit of difference......health care costs will continue to rise at a rate that is 2.5 times the rate of inflation, we'll have fewer and fewer people insured, we'll have higher numbers of lawsuits against doctors, whose malpractice insurance costs will continue to increase, thus the doctors will have to charge higher rates for procedures, which will in turn force the insurance companies to continue to raise their rates and so on and so on....am I missing anything here with the STATUS QUO?
Look, I'm talking about the current proposals and their flaws. You can talk about some yet-to-be-proposed pie-in-the-sky plan, but then we're dealing with, well, nothing.

Second, the status quo does not include rationing and it is cheaper than the current Obamacare proposals as concluded by the CBO. And the current health outcomes will be better than those under Obamacare given that health care is not currently rationed. Sorry, I don't want to live in places in Canada and Britain where your pets get better and more timely health care services than actual humans.
Been to an emergency room in a large city lately? Three-quarters of the people in there will never pay for whatever treatment they receive, so who do you think is going to pay for that? You guessed it, you and me in the form of higher procedural costs, or higher insurance costs
And that changes how under Obamacare? It actually becomes more expensive, that's how.
Look, I could give two fucks about it because ultimately it's not going to have an effect on me one way or the other (except that I'll be paying a higher percentage for my employer provided health care). If you're good with the way things are (and don't have any problem with the obscene profits insurance companies receive) by the time the dust settles, you'll be happy as a clam because nothing will have changed.
Bullshit. Obama and the rest are lying when they claim that nothing else changes except for the provision of a federal government-run health care plan.
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Re: Why Do We Need To Reform Health Care?

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JMak wrote:

Second, the status quo does not include rationing and it is cheaper than the current Obamacare proposals as concluded by the CBO. And the current health outcomes will be better than those under Obamacare given that health care is not currently rationed. Sorry, I don't want to live in places in Canada and Britain where your pets get better and more timely health care services than actual humans.
oh so under the plan health care will be rationed huh? Go ahead and hook me up to the portion of the bill that says any such thing.....
And that changes how under Obamacare? It actually becomes more expensive, that's how.
so what you're saying here is that competition creates higher costs....wow, where exactly did you study economics at?
Bullshit. Obama and the rest are lying when they claim that nothing else changes except for the provision of a federal government-run health care plan.
quit parroting the far right wing villagers/wingnuts
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Re: Why Do We Need To Reform Health Care?

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JMak wrote:
Second, the status quo does not include rationing.
Who's your insurance company? Do they cover every procedure, every prescription and everything else with no questions asked?

I know a lot of people who would like to get in on that plan. How much are the premiums?
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Re: Why Do We Need To Reform Health Care?

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Re: Why Do We Need To Reform Health Care?

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trev wrote:HMO's truly suck but will it be any better under a government plan?

When I mention how ignorant the vast majority of you seem to be on this subject...

It's fucking stupidity like this I'm refering to.


Shut the fuck up until you educate yourself.

This is the biggest fucking problem in this fucking country -- ignorance.
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Re: Why Do We Need To Reform Health Care?

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Just take a pill, sheesh...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-dQfb8WQvo

...straight out of the horse's* mouth

*hindparts, to be more specific
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Re: Why Do We Need To Reform Health Care?

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ucantdoitdoggieSTyle2 wrote:
JMak wrote:Dumbass, you're the one who said you didn't want a contract, no? If you don't want a contract that necessarily means that you don't want insurance.

Woah, woah, woah…. not so fast there, bro. All he said was… he wanted a doctor and solutions. He never said anything about paying for this stuff. It's supposed to be free... just like the milk, cookies, and pony rides The Messiah promised his minions.
you forgot pie.

who wants pie?
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Re: Why Do We Need To Reform Health Care?

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Felix wrote:oh so under the plan health care will be rationed huh? Go ahead and hook me up to the portion of the bill that says any such thing.....
It is inevitable. You simply cannot spend less money (as Obama has been promising) to cover more people (as Obama is also promising) and to produce better health care outcomes (again, what Obama is promising). You cannot do it. You appealed to simply economics in another thread...you should do so here, too.

Oh, and btw, idiot, had you read about any of the major proposals you would have noticed that all of them include a provision to established a centralized board that would determine which drugs and services would be covered and under what circumstances. That, you damned fool, is rationing. This board or boards would be responsible for denying certain categories of patients treatment available to other categories of patients.

I'm not sure how you can spend so much time talking about this issue when it is so clear that you have not a single clue what is actually being debated in DC.
so what you're saying here is that competition creates higher costs....wow, where exactly did you study economics at?
Talk about sucking down the Kool-aid. No, moron, that's not what I said or am saying. What I am saying is that Obama's proposals, so far, increase health care costs...like by $6 billion according to the CBO. Again, you cannot cover more people while promising better outcomes without spending more money. It's simply not possible. Reasonable people get this.
quit parroting the far right wing villagers/wingnuts
Citing the fact that Obama and other Democrats are straight up lying about this so-called reform might be parroting...but the fact remains that they are, indeed, lying. Deal with it.
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Re: Why Do We Need To Reform Health Care?

Post by trev »

Dinsdale wrote:
trev wrote:HMO's truly suck but will it be any better under a government plan?

When I mention how ignorant the vast majority of you seem to be on this subject...

It's fucking stupidity like this I'm refering to.


Shut the fuck up until you educate yourself.

This is the biggest fucking problem in this fucking country -- ignorance.
You shut the F up. HMO's still suck. I bet you love them if you had insurance.
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Re: Why Do We Need To Reform Health Care?

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JMak wrote: board that would determine which drugs and services would be covered and under what circumstances. That, you damned fool, is rationing.


You mean what insurance companies already do, right?
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Re: Why Do We Need To Reform Health Care?

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trev wrote:
Dinsdale wrote:
trev wrote:HMO's truly suck but will it be any better under a government plan?

When I mention how ignorant the vast majority of you seem to be on this subject...

It's fucking stupidity like this I'm refering to.


Shut the fuck up until you educate yourself.

This is the biggest fucking problem in this fucking country -- ignorance.
You shut the F up. HMO's still suck. I bet you love them if you had insurance.


I'm trying to help you out here, you ignorant cunt.


Maybe you can figure out why everyone was suddenly lumped into a HMO through their employer...


say, around 1973?


Light coming on yet, dumbass?


Here's a bigger hint...

IT WAS A GOVERNMENT PLAN, you uneducated ditz.
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Re: Why Do We Need To Reform Health Care?

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Mikey wrote:
JMak wrote: board that would determine which drugs and services would be covered and under what circumstances. That, you damned fool, is rationing.


You mean what insurance companies already do, right?
Right.

There is one itsy bitsy difference though. If you don't care for the service you are getting, you simply drop that carrier and pick up a different one in hopes that they will provide better service. A single payer gubmint run sysytem eliminates this little detail. And it is the exact reason that so much of what gubmint does, they do poorly.

Wanna fix the system? Return to the good old days of real health insurance. You pay a reasonable amount in to cover catastrophic shit. Everything else you write a check for. This takes the insurance bidness out of the equation for 90% of all medical services rendered.
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Re: Why Do We Need To Reform Health Care?

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smackaholic wrote: Wanna fix the system? Return to the good old days of real health insurance. You pay a reasonable amount in to cover catastrophic shit. Everything else you write a check for. This takes the insurance bidness out of the equation for 90% of all medical services rendered.

HUH?

You mean like letting the free market sort it out... like things were for the better part of 200 years? Like back when nearly every American could afford essential medical care? Like back when America had super-cheap health care? Like back before Big Brother Nixon told everyone who they were going to do business with, and how they were going to do it? Like before competition was removed from the marketplace by Big Brother? Like before the astonishing rise in insurance/medical costs that IMMEDIATELY followed Big Brother's intervention? Before they passed unconstitutional laws FORBIDDING doing business the way it had been successfully done for decades?

You mean like that?
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Re: Why Do We Need To Reform Health Care?

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smackaholic wrote: Return to the good old days of real health insurance. You pay a reasonable amount in to cover catastrophic shit.
If you want to cut the costs of insurance, a good place to start would be to cap the award amount for a malpractice suit...that would reduce the malpractice insurance costs, which would hopefully reduce the amount for services rendered.....

but that will NEVER happen
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Re: Why Do We Need To Reform Health Care?

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smackaholic wrote:
There is one itsy bitsy difference though. If you don't care for the service you are getting, you simply drop that carrier and pick up a different one in hopes that they will provide better service.
Yeah right.

How many choices do YOU have?
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Re: Why Do We Need To Reform Health Care?

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Dinsdale wrote:
smackaholic wrote: Wanna fix the system? Return to the good old days of real health insurance. You pay a reasonable amount in to cover catastrophic shit. Everything else you write a check for. This takes the insurance bidness out of the equation for 90% of all medical services rendered.

HUH?

You mean like letting the free market sort it out... like things were for the better part of 200 years? Like back when nearly every American could afford essential medical care? Like back when America had super-cheap health care? Like back before Big Brother Nixon told everyone who they were going to do business with, and how they were going to do it? Like before competition was removed from the marketplace by Big Brother? Like before the astonishing rise in insurance/medical costs that IMMEDIATELY followed Big Brother's intervention? Before they passed unconstitutional laws FORBIDDING doing business the way it had been successfully done for decades?

You mean like that?
uhh, yeah. Pretty much. Also remember that docs back then were much happier as a group and much wealthier. Prolly because they didn't have to employee an army of flunkies to hound insurance copanies for their jack.

They actually got paid directly by... get this.... their fukking customer!

What a novel fukking idea that was, huh?

A few years back I had to see my gp sometime in late december. I knew I was not gonna even put a dent in my yearly deductible, so, I told them, fukk all that insurance paperwork stuff. Whata I owe you? My doc took the bill and wrote no insurance, cash across it, and wrote in something like 40 bucks which is only a little more than my copay with my current insurance.

Wanna really make shit better. Go back to this system and make all direct payments for medical service a 80% tax credit. I wouldn't go right to 100% tax credit as this essentially makes your medical costs zero up to your yearly tax. And making anything free ALWAYS is a bad idea for those who end up paying for your "free" stuff.
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Re: Why Do We Need To Reform Health Care?

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Felix wrote:
smackaholic wrote: Return to the good old days of real health insurance. You pay a reasonable amount in to cover catastrophic shit.
If you want to cut the costs of insurance, a good place to start would be to cap the award amount for a malpractice suit...that would reduce the malpractice insurance costs, which would hopefully reduce the amount for services rendered.....

but that will NEVER happen
Good to see we agree on some things.

I would go further. Get rid of citizen juries for such cases. They have proven to be a fukking joke. Also, we need to go to loser pays legal costs. Let the ambulance chasers know that they will be held responsible for this cost. And some sort of punishment system to deal with obviously frivilous cases would be good as well.
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Re: Why Do We Need To Reform Health Care?

Post by smackaholic »

Mikey wrote:
smackaholic wrote:
There is one itsy bitsy difference though. If you don't care for the service you are getting, you simply drop that carrier and pick up a different one in hopes that they will provide better service.
Yeah right.

How many choices do YOU have?
Not certain if I currently have choices of different companies. I do have choices on types of plans though.
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Mikey
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Re: Why Do We Need To Reform Health Care?

Post by Mikey »

smackaholic wrote:
Mikey wrote:
smackaholic wrote:
There is one itsy bitsy difference though. If you don't care for the service you are getting, you simply drop that carrier and pick up a different one in hopes that they will provide better service.
Yeah right.

How many choices do YOU have?
Not certain if I currently have choices of different companies. I do have choices on types of plans though.
Pretty much like everybody else.

Rationing and lack of any competitive market are already with us.

When are you going to start thinking for yourself and stop listening to assholes like JMak?


:meds:
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Mikey
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Re: Why Do We Need To Reform Health Care?

Post by Mikey »

Question for libtards:

If I'm on Medicare and I like my coverage why should I be forced to let the {evil} GOVERNMENT {/evil} come in and run my health coverage?
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Cuda
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Re: Why Do We Need To Reform Health Care?

Post by Cuda »

if you're on medicare and like your coverage, you're an Alzheimer's case and don't have a fucking clue how badly you're being mistreated
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ucantdoitdoggieSTyle2
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Re: Why Do We Need To Reform Health Care?

Post by ucantdoitdoggieSTyle2 »

Mikey wrote:Question for libtards:

If I'm on Medicare and I like my coverage why should I be forced to let the {evil} GOVERNMENT {/evil} come in and run my health coverage?

:?

In the scenario you laid out (Medicare)… aren't aren't they (the government) already in charge of your health plan?
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Cuda
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Re: Why Do We Need To Reform Health Care?

Post by Cuda »

i think he was being sarcastic, ucant
WacoFan wrote:Flying any airplane that you can hear the radio over the roaring radial engine is just ghey anyway.... Of course, Cirri are the Miata of airplanes..
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Re: Why Do We Need To Reform Health Care?

Post by trev »

Dinsdale wrote:
I'm trying to help you out here, you ignorant cunt.


Maybe you can figure out why everyone was suddenly lumped into a HMO through their employer...


say, around 1973?


Light coming on yet, dumbass?


Here's a bigger hint...

IT WAS A GOVERNMENT PLAN, you uneducated ditz.
Last time I checked we still have choice you ignorant cunt.
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Re: Why Do We Need To Reform Health Care?

Post by Moving Sale »

Cuda wrote:if you're on medicare and like your coverage, you're an Alzheimer's case and don't have a fucking clue how badly you're being mistreated
Link?

That's what I thought.
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Re: Why Do We Need To Reform Health Care?

Post by Mikey »

ucantdoitdoggieSTyle2 wrote:
Mikey wrote:Question for libtards:

If I'm on Medicare and I like my coverage why should I be forced to let the {evil} GOVERNMENT {/evil} come in and run my health coverage?

:?

In the scenario you laid out (Medicare)… aren't aren't they (the government) already in charge of your health plan?
You win the prize.
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Re: Why Do We Need To Reform Health Care?

Post by Dinsdale »

trev wrote: Last time I checked we still have choice you ignorant cunt.

Really?

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