Rule question...

[Left Seater]

All of you baseball fans lay out your opinions on this one.

One out. Runner on second.

Long fly ball to deep right field. RF dives to make the catch and umpire between 2nd and 3rd immediately signals no catch. The runner who was off of second runs home. The batter stops at first base. The RF throws the ball into second base and the SS steps on the bag. The team in the field runs off thinking they had an inning ending double play.

As soon as the RF realizes the umpire has ruled no catch he starts to go nuts. Dude jumps up and down and goes crazy saying it was a clean catch. Both managers come out of the dugout. The umpires huddle and discuss the play. After the huddle they determine that the catch was in fact made by the RF.

Now what do you do?

Where does the runner originally on 2nd base go? Was it a double play?

After some discussion I will tell you what the umpires did, and how it was wrong. Not sure there is a correct way to handle this situation.

[War Wagon]

Pretty simple.

Runner returns to 2nd, no double play.

[jiminphilly]

Wag's answer is correct or at least how I think it should be ruled. No double play since the play was originally ruled a hit and the force play was removed and no one tagged the runner off 2nd. Since they changed the ruling, the runner on 2nd should be able to return to his original base without penalty since the umpire missed the catch.


The only other ruling I can think the umps used was the bobble catch rule- A catch is legal if the ball is finally held by any fielder, even though juggled, or held by another fielder before it touches the ground. Runners may leave their bases the instant the first fielder touches the ball.

In this instance I can see the umps allowing for the double play since the runner was off the base prior to the catch being made and the runner did not return to the base until the attempt to catch was made. The force was still active and the base was touched.

[Left Seater]

We all agreed with Wag's as it was happening too.

Problem is the officials counted the out and then still awarded the run. This was in the bottom of the 6th or 7th while RICE was batting against Texas on Tuesday night. Texas coaches went nuts and were close to getting tossed. Most of us on the home side were saying the umps got it wrong.

Turns out they did. Texas has appealed and the game may go down as unfinished. Doesn't have much bearing on anything in the long run, although it is always nice to have 'bode over them. Here's hoping that ump never sees another RICE game and pretty sure the Texas coach will scratch him for the rest of his career.

[War Wagon]

Problem is the officials counted the out and then still awarded the run.

Huh?

That's not even possible in a T-ball game.

[Left Seater]

You wouldn't think so, but they did it.

Like I said I can't blame the Texas coaches and players for being upset. Ol' Wayne came walking back to the dugout shaking his head and had a strange look on his face. But he isn't going to argue when the umps hand him a run.

From that point on every time there was a pop up or fly out and a man on, the Texas fans rightly started chanting to score the run.

[jiminphilly]

Problem is the officials counted the out and then still awarded the run.

Huh?

That's not even possible in a T-ball game.

I hope you're right. My son starts T-ball this year and while I won't be coaching him (yet), I'm expecting (based on what other parents have told me) that with T-ball, all the kids hit, regardless of outs. Dear God, help me.

[Left Seater]

Three man crew. And I agree it should have been the first/second ump to make the call. He didn't and instead rotated into the infield. The guy off of third ran about as far as second base to make the call. The plate ump was the one to overrule and was also the crewchief.

Agreed they should have stayed with the original call. Looked up in the College rule book and there is nothing to tell umps what to do in this situation. There is a section about getting the call correct. It says making the correct call is the most important thing, but consideration should be given to catch/ no catch rulings with men on base.

[War Wagon]

Sounds like they compromised so as not to penalize only one team.

Yep, but that's totally bogus. This umpire crew should never call another game above T-ball level, let alone college. You're either safe or out. There is no in between. I don't have a problem with an ump making a mistake, they're only human, but you don't make it worse with this namby-pamby call. Jeebus, did they serve ice cream and cookies after the game?

Imagine the official scorers conundrum. Dude made an out and scored a run, all in the same play.

[Terry in Crapchester]

My son starts T-ball this year and while I won't be coaching him (yet), I'm expecting (based on what other parents have told me) that with T-ball, all the kids hit, regardless of outs. Dear God, help me.

Unless either: (a) I'm not understanding you properly; (b) they've changed the rules recently; or (c) they play T-ball by a different set of rules in your neck of the woods (any of which is a possibility, btw), that wouldn't be correct. T-ball still plays by the 3 outs per inning rule.

Where T-ball differs from regular ball: every kid bats, regardless of who's playing the field in that inning. In other words, if you have 15 kids to a team, the batting order goes from 1 to 15, and teams follow the 1-15 batting order throughout the entire game.

[War Wagon]

I think Terry is correct about that, but I wouldn't know. Sounds right.

Jim, how old is your boy?

My daughter started out in kid pitch baseball when she was 6. Sure, it was a podunk league of 6-8 year olds... all boys except for her, but she learned how to play the game. Of course, I coached.

Never a T-ball or coach pitch game for her. She played baseball until she was 11 and was pretty damn good. I had to drag her away from it kicking and screaming for girls sofball, and then only after her dumbshit politician coach had the kids draw their positions from a hat... where she drew 3rd base... and she's a lefty.

That did it. At that age, girls are way more competitive than boys.

[jiminphilly]

I think Terry is correct about that, but I wouldn't know. Sounds right.

Jim, how old is your boy?

My daughter started out in kid pitch baseball when she was 6. Sure, it was a podunk league of 6-8 year olds... all boys except for her, but she learned how to play the game. Of course, I coached.

Never a T-ball or coach pitch game for her. She played baseball until she was 11 and was pretty damn good. I had to drag her away from it kicking and screaming for girls sofball, and then only after her dumbshit politician coach had the kids draw their positions from a hat... where she drew 3rd base... and she's a lefty.

That did it. At that age, girls are way more competitive than boys.

My son turned 5 in November. He's already decent at throwing but not coordinated with the glove but he knows how to hold and swing a bat. The winter was tough because it was so damn cold so we signed him up for an indoor soccer team- it was mostly instructional and I was fairly amazed at his progression. The facility was damn cool- in fact a guy I used to work with started his son in the same program and now he's a goalie on one of the Olympic developmental teams. But, like his dad, my son got bored of it because he couldn't use his hands. He seems fairly amped for t-ball because I think he knows there is far more individual effort involved- and at 5 he's already a bit of a perfectionist so I'm already anticipating having to dial back his intensity as he gets older.

For now I just want to expose him to the different sports etc.. and let him figure out what he ultimately likes. I know I'm doing a good job because he started asking about football when he was 3.

My attempts to tie his right arm behind his back and force him to become a left were unsuccessful so he'll have to battle the millions of other right-handed kids when he tries out for the pros.. :wink:

How is your daughter doing with softball?

[War Wagon]

How is your daughter doing with softball?

Doin' good, she's a junior in college and riding a 4 year softball partial scholarship. If the shit weather would ever cooperate, I just might get to watch her play a few games before she's a senior.

[Left Seater]

[quote="jiminphilly]I know I'm doing a good job because he started asking about football when he was 3.quote]

Always a good thing. Now just make sure you get him to a Penn or 'Nova game soon. Spare the kid the Eagles crap until he is much older. :wink: By the way, lived in Fort Washington for 2 years.

Doin' good, she's a junior in college and riding a 4 year softball partial scholarship. If the shit weather would ever cooperate, I just might get to watch her play a few games before she's a senior.

That is a hell of a deal? 4 year scholarship? Mine was a one year renewable. Got to feel good though that someone else is paying part of that bill.

[jiminphilly]

My son starts T-ball this year and while I won't be coaching him (yet), I'm expecting (based on what other parents have told me) that with T-ball, all the kids hit, regardless of outs. Dear God, help me.

Unless either: (a) I'm not understanding you properly; (b) they've changed the rules recently; or (c) they play T-ball by a different set of rules in your neck of the woods (any of which is a possibility, btw), that wouldn't be correct. T-ball still plays by the 3 outs per inning rule.

Where T-ball differs from regular ball: every kid bats, regardless of who's playing the field in that inning. In other words, if you have 15 kids to a team, the batting order goes from 1 to 15, and teams follow the 1-15 batting order throughout the entire game.

Just an update- my initial understanding of the "rules" for my son's league were correct. Each game is alloted 1 1/2 hours or the completion of 3 full innings- whichever comes first. So far we've managed to get all 3 innings in for each game. Most teams have between 10 and 11 kids and so every inning you have every child getting a chance to take a swing off the tee and run to 1st- regardless if an out is actually made by the defense. There is no advancement of bases except for when the last hitter on the team hits in which all the runners advance to home and the hitter gets to hit a "HR"

Essentially the idea is to have each child learn now to swing the bat correctly (a lot don't) and run to first (some of managed to make a straight line for 2nd). And from a fielding standpoint the idea is to teach each kid the position they are in at that time and have them learn how and where to throw the ball (99% of the time to first). Some coaches are better than others (last night the opposing coach had his entire team- some 11 kids- all playing infield which I thought was absurd. There were 2-3 kids fighting over the ball each time.

I'm not the main coach but there are 3-4 dads that help in addition to the headcoach and we seem to a lot more organized than other coaches. I really don't have a problem with the way the league is run because I think the kids are learning the very basics and more importantly, having fun.