Gearing up for the third tier

PSUFAN · Post by **PSUFAN** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 3:23 pm

I detest what I regard as an acceptance at PSU of reduced expectations, of lowered goals.

I grew up with a team that was hard-nosed and aggressive - that took the game to the opponent relentlessly (Shawn Kemp, anyone?) and did not sit back and take it on the chin. It is because of those days, because of that apparent stance, that I became a PSU fan for life.

Soft zone coverage...bah.
Conservative offense limited to the short lateral passing game...humbug.
Punting on 4th and short in opponent territory...fuck that.

We used to have a coach that HATED to lose...who had no clue how to take a loss in stride. Now we have a coach who is concerned about the margins of his victories, and who is overly effusive in praise for opponents who take his team out back for a beating.

Yes, PSU has come "back" from the 3-9, 4-7 type of season...back to 9-4, and a dalliance with the Motor Weedwhacker .bowl.

We schedule opponents like Coastal Carolina...why? Well, because the AD is a former PSU guy, and because we can fill our stadium for a game against them and push a stack of benjis over to Women's Fencing. Woo fucking hoo.

When we get a prime-time matchup against OSU or UM, we roll over and butter up our pussies.

Recruiting almost solely on the basis of past glories, we occasionally get kids like Derrick Williams and Justin King...and misuse/underuse the talent...then the kids leave shaking their heads and muttering.

It is utterly inane to file down the teeth of The Lion.

PSUFAN · Post by **PSUFAN** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 6:20 pm

P.S. sorry, I get a little fired up after scanning the PSU RSS feeds each morning.

buckeye_in_sc · Post by **buckeye_in_sc** » Fri Apr 04, 2008 4:24 pm

That is still sad that just a few years ago guys like LJ, Arrington, etc were flying around Happy Valley playing tough, hard nosed football and PSU was near the top every year or so...

Not sure where the downfall lays...but I really think Joe needs to step aside and a younger guy needs the helm (preferably not named Jay right?)...

I wish PSU was back to more the elite caliber...that would give the Big 10 another MNC contender year in and year out and make the league that much stronger...

I know a DB from the 1981 NC team here in NC/SC and he even shakes his head when I see him regarding the sort of disaray going on...

TheJON · Post by **TheJON** » Fri Apr 04, 2008 7:23 pm

You old school fans of former elite programs crack me up. Penn State fans aren't as comical as older Notre Dame fans, but they're still good for a couple of laughs.

Complaining about scheduling Western Carolina? Come on now, 90% of the coaches in the country would be complaining about having to play them because they're too tough of an opponent to face that early in the season. Everyone knows college teams don't want to face a formidable opponent until at least the first Saturday of October. Got news for you, Penn State isn't the only team scheduling the Western Carolina's of the world......everyone is. There's a reason ABC/ESPN promoted the Ohio State-Texas game the entire offseason up until the game......because it's a rarity that 2 teams that are any good would actually play each other in the non-conference. Which is why I say every conference should be 12 teams and everyone plays everyone without a non-conference schedule. College football's non-conference slate has become unwatchable and pointless......but that's a topic for another day.

As for your whining of Penn State not playing hard nosed football. I'm guessing if your team was full of queerbaits that were afraid of being tackled unless it was by a defender with a really nice tight ass, BUT Penn State was consistently scoring more points that its opponents, you'd be on here boasting about how much fun this team is to watch.

Everybody loves the style of play their team plays when they win and they hate the style they play when they lose. Iowa fans are doing the same thing. We finish with 31 wins and 3 straight Top 10 finishes along with 2 Big-10 titles from 2002-2004 and Hawkeye fans love this coaching staff and their style of play. 2 years later, the system doesn't work and the coaches suck.

College football fans are hilarious.

PSUFAN · Post by **PSUFAN** » Fri Apr 04, 2008 8:28 pm

Fuck, JON - you're a mess.

What part of Coastal Carolina didn't you understand? Western Carolina has at least been playing NCAA football for the better part of a century. Coastal Carolina (you see, that's what I typed)is a fledgling program that plays in a stadium with a capacity of about 8K. I have driven by this stadium numerous times, it's smaller than the facilities of most AAAA HS programs. Describing CC as a challenge is beyond ridiculous - it's laughable.

As for this:

As for your whining of Penn State not playing hard nosed football. I'm guessing if your team was full of queerbaits that were afraid of being tackled unless it was by a defender with a really nice tight ass, BUT Penn State was consistently scoring more points that its opponents, you'd be on here boasting about how much fun this team is to watch.

Let's just say that your intent there is lost on me.

I have seen PSU stagger to wins many times and avoided thumping my chest about the victory. "If we play that way in conference"...yep, I have said that far too many times.

But, I can see that you're trolling...perhaps in an attempt to rid the lingering taste of Ronald McDonald penis?

TheJON · Post by **TheJON** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 3:50 pm

Oh, gee......excuuuuuusse meeeeee! I messed up Coastal with Western. Big effing difference. Either way, Big-10 teams shouldn't be playing those teams.

I'm sure you do watch a non-conference game against a crap team where PSU plays like shit and talk about how improvement needs to be made. However, I highly doubt if Penn State's going 10-2 or 11-1 without playing that hard nosed style of football you enjoy watching you'd be on here whining like a little girl.

It's kind of like Husker fan. They cried abot Callahan actually bringing the forward pass to Lincoln and all I heard was "this ain't Husker football. Bring back the option. Passing is for fags!" And it was that way while he lost. This wasn't their kind of football. Of course, then for a while Billy starts winning and all of a sudden no one's crying about the style of play. But soon after he goes back to losing and now the fans say "we gotta get back to playing Husker football." Give me a break, PSUFAN, that's how fans are. If you're in the 0.01% minority that doesn't think that way then my apologies. But the fact is college football fans of former top-notch programs always cry about how they hate this new style of play when their teams not winning when really they're just looking for a reason to bitch.

King Crimson · Post by **King Crimson** » Sun Apr 06, 2008 3:27 pm

while i agree there is a some "back to the past" weird shit with Nebraska fan re: Callahan, Osborne as AD, and the trashing of and then now deification of Frank Solich to suggest that the Husker Mind is in a bad place and Pelini as savior etc. i've seen the "back to option football" thing up close in the mid 90's with John Blake. I remember about popping a woodie reading the Daily Oklahoman at my dad's house when i hear Jerrod Reese was da truf and the bone was coming back. Jerrod Reese? Ever heard of him?

but, JON you are pushing some point which is somewhat valid and using Penn State as an example that's not really working IMO.

PSU ain't talking about "style of play" like running the spread or the WCO when they used to run the option out of the I with multiple blocking schemes up front. PSU is saying his team is soft. and the AD is playing wuss and scheduling to put $ in the bank and W's in the win column. When, if you have the revenue and fan base that PSU has....they deserve better than crass schedule padding. outside of losing Iowa State every year, who does Iowa play from a BCS conference OOC? I know you guys had a thing with Missouri that they wussed out of....but, what else?

though i will say, a few years ago one of my buddies (a PSU grad) was running his mouth about how lame the Big 8 was and such....and i did a little research on PSU's schedule as an independent and it's pretty weak sauce. a lotta wins over Duquesne and Navy and Bucknell and some powerhouse Lehigh teams....to make out those 10 win seasons.

TheJON · Post by **TheJON** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 2:53 pm

We hardly play anyone and it pisses me off. The next couple of years we have a couple of teams with a pulse on the schedule. We play at Pittsburgh this year and then have UCONN and Arizona in the next couple of years. Plus, you'd expect ISU to improve by 2009 so the OOC schedule could be quality in a year or two. Certainly, that isn't a brutal schedule but at this point I'll take it.

Not to make excuses for Ferentz but it's hard finding opponents to play a team like Iowa. The marquee teams either want to play mid-majors or they want to play other marquee teams. Iowa is a 2nd tier program and no one wants to play a 2nd tier program. There's not really that much national attention that would be drawn to that game, especially considering it's against a team from the state of Iowa (a small market), and Iowa is the type of opponent that could knock off a marquee team like USC on any given day most years. These elite programs feel that if they're going to play a losable game, it's got to be against another elite program. Otherwise they'd rather just play a MAC team. We're at the level nobody wants to play. So we have to settle for 3rd tier programs like Pitt, Syracuse, UCONN, Arizona, etc and crappy programs/I-AA schools such as FIU, Northern Iowa, and Maine. Missouri was on the schedule for 2006 and 2007 but they backed up. We tried to pick up West Virginia, but they didn't want to play. So we ended up with Syracuse.

Scheduling in college football is a joke. It's all about padding victories and making money. It's not about football. We have to wait until October every year to get a decent game in college football anymore.

PSUFAN · Post by **PSUFAN** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 3:38 pm

you'd expect ISU to improve by 2009 so the OOC schedule could be quality in a year or two.

It's funny seeing an Iowa fan looking down the bridge of his nose at ISU. Since 1998, Iowa is 3-7 against ISU.

Yes, PSU has always played its share of cupcakes. Every program in the top ten all-time win totals has also done that.

For years, PSU seemed to be tough against the better opponents as well...I see a decline in that regard.

As King Crimson said - I'm not complaining about newfangled schemes, I'm complaining about lowered goals, softness, rationales for losses.

Terry in Crapchester · Mon Apr 07, 2008 4:22 pm

TheJON wrote:We have to wait until October every year to get a decent game in college football anymore.

<Cough, cough>Notre Dame - Michigan<Cough, cough>

Not every year, admittedly, but when both are playing up to their capabilities, this definitely qualifies as a "decent" college football game.

TheJON · Post by **TheJON** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 4:55 pm

Notre Dame-Michigan isn't a good game anymore because Notre Dame isn't any good.

Notre Dame is a dead program and the only thing keeping them alive is the national media and their attempt to bring ND back to prominence.

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 12:52 am

Great call JON. That dead program just signed the #2 recruiting class (#1 when the kids actually qualify) and got Jon Tenuta to come on as a position coach.

Sounds like a dead program to me.

Cicero · Post by **Cicero** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 1:07 am

I understand where you are coming from PSUFAN. Many FSU fans feel the same way. I'm glad Jimbo has been named as Bobby's successor and that a plan is in place. FSU was able to pull in a Top 10 recruiting class and this year they are on track to pull in a Top 5 so hopefully things will get better.

PSUFAN · Post by **PSUFAN** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 1:02 pm

FSU fans - how about the firing of PT Willis? He spoke the truth about the offense, pissed Bobby off, and got the sack.

Cicero · Post by **Cicero** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 12:52 am

A lot of fans were pissed as was I. PT's contract was not renewed and Bobby gave his approval of the decision. I guess he never forgave PT for referring to Jeff's Offense as a "high school" Offense, even thought that is what it was. I guess he forgets that PT was a great QB for him and that he is in FSU's HOF. Bobby still thinks the media and fans were wrong about his son. Bobby is starting to wear out his welcome.

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 1:02 pm

Bowden or Joe-Pa are waiting each other out. We'll see if FSU or PSU folds on which geezer first. Either that or one of them has to die because they are both just sticking around for the record.

TheJON · Post by **TheJON** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 4:51 pm

Good point Killian.....

With all of those bowl victories and national titles you've been competing for over the last 15 years I must be insane to make statements like that, right?????

Like I said, it's a dead program that the media is trying to keep alive. You wouldn't get a Top 50 class anymore if ESPN and NBC weren't out recruiting for you. Why would anyone want to go play at a school that hasn't done jack squat in their lifetime? The only reason these 17-18 year old kids even know who Notre Dame is is because the media keeps telling them.

If it weren't for the annoying media, Notre Dame football would have faded into oblivian years ago.

Terry in Crapchester · Thu Apr 10, 2008 10:53 am

TheJON wrote:Good point Killian.....

With all of those bowl victories and national titles you've been competing for over the last 15 years I must be insane to make statements like that, right?????

Since the onset of the BCS, ND has been coached by Bob Davie, Ty Willingham and Charlie Weis. For the record, that's two guys regarded as coaching failures, and a third as to whom (very charitable assessment) the jury is still out.

Despite that situation, ND has three BCS appearances in that time, and would have had a fourth BCS appearance had the current BCS setup existed in 2002. But by all means, continue jocking that impressive streak of Motor City Bowl victories that Iowa has. Doubtless it'll keep the roster stacked with 85 future NFL starters every season.

Like I said, it's a dead program that the media is trying to keep alive. You wouldn't get a Top 50 class anymore if ESPN and NBC weren't out recruiting for you.

If you think ESPN is recruiting for us . . .

If I were to sit here and type

for the rest of my life, I wouldn't have enough time to do that justice.

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 12:25 pm

Yep, NBC and ESPN do all the recruiting for ND. Weis and his staff didn't bust their ass recruiting. As Terry pointed out, give me a fucking break.

There's no arguing the bowl futility streak. Struggling program? Sure. Dead? Try harder.

TheJON · Post by **TheJON** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 3:27 pm

Actually, Terry, Iowa has yet to make the Motor City BOwl and never will becuase our fan base will always put us somewhere warm.

Has Notre Dame finished a season in the Top 10 since 1993? Iowa has 3 times. You went to 3 BCS Bowls.....yeah because you're Notre Dame not because you deserved it.

If you guys don't think a HUGE part of the reason Notre Dame is still having recruiting success is due to the media, you're just flat out clueless.

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 5:24 pm

Wait, Noj calling someone clueless? Nice. You realize that the new recruiting rule that prohibits head coaches from leaving campus to recruit in May was a direct result of Weis. They're working their ass off.

If the media recruits for ND, explain their upper classmen this year and last.

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 5:59 pm

Killian wrote:Wait, Noj calling someone clueless? Nice.

3 words.

Lead Pipe Locks

SoCalTrjn · Post by **SoCalTrjn** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 3:21 am

TheJON wrote:You old school fans of former elite programs crack me up. Penn State fans aren't as comical as older Notre Dame fans, but they're still good for a couple of laughs.

Complaining about scheduling Western Carolina? Come on now, 90% of the coaches in the country would be complaining about having to play them because they're too tough of an opponent to face that early in the season. Everyone knows college teams don't want to face a formidable opponent until at least the first Saturday of October. Got news for you, Penn State isn't the only team scheduling the Western Carolina's of the world......everyone is.

Not Everyone.
USC Football 2008 Schedule
Date Opponent
August 30 @ Virginia
Sept. 13 Ohio State
Sept. 25 @Oregon State
Oct. 4 Oregon
Oct. 11 Arizona State
Oct. 18 @ Washington State
Oct. 25 @ Arizona
Nov. 1 Washington
Nov. 8 California
Nov. 15 @ Stanford
Nov. 29 Notre Dame
Dec. 6 @ UCLA

and not all of the media recruits for Neuter Lame, just NBC, CSTV and that cunt Lemming

Laxplayer · Post by **Laxplayer** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 3:42 am

Let's take a closer look at this schedule:
Not Everyone.
USC Football 2008 Schedule
Date Opponent
August 30 @ Virginia The only problem $C may encounter here is jet lag and since they'll probably hijack an earlier flight it shouldn't be a problem.
Sept. 13 Ohio State Yep, tough game
Sept. 25 @Oregon State Easy win but condom fan will spin this as OSU is a tough place to play with all the rain and stuff.
Oct. 4 Oregon Easy win this year
Oct. 11 Arizona State Always talk about how good they're going to be and then they end up sucking
Oct. 18 @ Washington State Shitty team, easy win
Oct. 25 @ Arizona When is Stoops actually going to put a winner on the field?
Nov. 1 Washington You're kidding, right. Willingham is a lame duck
Nov. 8 California Another easy win
Nov. 15 @ Stanford Last year was a fluke but Stanford wins the IQ portion of the contest hands down.
Nov. 29 Notre Dame You referred to them as Neuter Lame so why are you saying they're any good this year.
Dec. 6 @ UCLA According to Condom Fan the Bruins suck

so please tell me besides Ohio State which is the tough game again?

SunCoastSooner · Post by **SunCoastSooner** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:44 pm

Cicero wrote:I understand where you are coming from PSUFAN. Many FSU fans feel the same way. I'm glad Jimbo has been named as Bobby's successor and that a plan is in place. FSU was able to pull in a Top 10 recruiting class and this year they are on track to pull in a Top 5 so hopefully things will get better.

You've been getting top 10 recruiting classes for the last 15 years...

RumpleForeskin · Post by **RumpleForeskin** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 5:09 pm

TheJON wrote:The marquee teams either want to play mid-majors or they want to play other marquee teams. Iowa is a 2nd tier program and no one wants to play a 2nd tier program.

Its the other way around I'm afraid. Houston scheduled Oregon and Bama last year and they normally schedule Top teir programs every year. After the Hawaii debacle last year, I think the only way for Mid-major programs to have a shot at a BCS bid is to schedule 2nd teir programs. We'll probably see more of this over the next few years when teams like Iowa schedule better Mid-major schools like Boise St., Tulsa, Houston, Central Florida, Hawaii, and the likes.

As for PSU's point, I see what he is getting at. I don't think he was so much as saying the style of play has gotten soft. He was pointing out that the entire program has gotten soft. I love Penn St. because my cousin almost went there and I despise Michigan and Ohio St.. Penn St. and Notre Dame have a respectful rivalry. Back in the day, these teams got after it. It was great football. No...it was THE best football. I miss it.

I wish Joe Pa would hang the whistle up and let give a younger guy a shot. I think the program would turn around making the Big Ten much more interesting with a another contender in the conference. I'm just sick of seeing OSU or Michigan getting all the attention in such a great conference.

SoCalTrjn · Post by **SoCalTrjn** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 12:01 am

Laxplayer wrote:Let's take a closer look at this schedule:
Not Everyone.
USC Football 2008 Schedule
Date Opponent
August 30 @ Virginia The only problem $C may encounter here is jet lag and since they'll probably hijack an earlier flight it shouldn't be a problem.
Sept. 13 Ohio State Yep, tough game
Sept. 25 @Oregon State Easy win but condom fan will spin this as OSU is a tough place to play with all the rain and stuff.
Oct. 4 Oregon Easy win this year
Oct. 11 Arizona State Always talk about how good they're going to be and then they end up sucking
Oct. 18 @ Washington State Shitty team, easy win
Oct. 25 @ Arizona When is Stoops actually going to put a winner on the field?
Nov. 1 Washington You're kidding, right. Willingham is a lame duck
Nov. 8 California Another easy win
Nov. 15 @ Stanford Last year was a fluke but Stanford wins the IQ portion of the contest hands down.
Nov. 29 Notre Dame You referred to them as Neuter Lame so why are you saying they're any good this year.
Dec. 6 @ UCLA According to Condom Fan the Bruins suck

so please tell me besides Ohio State which is the tough game again?

should they have 7 or 8 home games? games vs the military acadamies? USC is replacing the entire O line, half the D line and trying to find a QB, on top of that they are still opening the season 3500 miles from home in a BCS conference schools stadium. They have 3 OOC games and all 3 are vs BCS level opponents. Being a Pac team theyre going to play all 9 other Pac teams every year so in response to what was posted earlier... not everyone is scheduling crap teams.... well I guess USC did still schedule the Irish, congrats child molester, your school is the Western Kentucky of USCs schedule

Laxplayer · Post by **Laxplayer** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 5:59 am

Dude, you are stupid beyond reproach. The conference is average at best so please don't try and sell it any other way. Ok, so they open up 3,500 miles away from home. Vs. who, an average UVA team that went 9-4 vs. more average competition. I love the excuses...we're replacing the entire O-line, half the D-line...then in other threads it's we have the best recruiting class in the nation year in and year out, so are you really replacing anything or just sticking another 5 star recruit in there? Make up your mind. What 3 BCS level opponents are you referring to? Since well is the Gator Bowl a BCS level bowl, and since ND wasn't near making a bowl game you've got one team left. Nice try Sherlock. Yes ND is a crap team right now and nobody is denying it, granted you can't make up your fucking mind. First it's this....

They have 3 OOC games and all 3 are vs BCS level opponents.

Then it's this....

not everyone is scheduling crap teams, well I guess USC did still schedule the Irish,

they the typical attempt at an insult from someone like you....

congrats child molester,

Nice try......Can't you possibly come with something better than this worn out attempt at an insult.

Mr T · Post by **Mr T** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 9:00 pm

SunCoastSooner wrote:
Cicero wrote:I understand where you are coming from PSUFAN. Many FSU fans feel the same way. I'm glad Jimbo has been named as Bobby's successor and that a plan is in place. FSU was able to pull in a Top 10 recruiting class and this year they are on track to pull in a Top 5 so hopefully things will get better.
You've been getting top 10 recruiting classes for the last 15 years...

Exactly. I remember when FSU use to actually recruit. Not go by what magazines say.

Fuck lemming and all those other "experts".

Recruit rankings are fucking pointless

Mr T · Post by **Mr T** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 9:03 pm

PSUFAN wrote:FSU fans - how about the firing of PT Willis? He spoke the truth about the offense, pissed Bobby off, and got the sack.

Bobby and crew have been waiting for the contract to go out for a while.

PT Willis spoke the truth. Too bad if your not sucking bobbys cock or his sons you are out the door.

What pissed me off the most is that Gene didnt fight for PT.

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 6:40 am

[quote="PSUFAN"]When we get a prime-time matchup against OSU or UM, we roll over and butter up our pussies.

quote]

I laughed pretty hard at that one, kudos.

I can sympathize, during the BC-era hardnosed, motivated Nebraska football freaking disappeared. I guess only time will tell if all the feel-good stories about returning to tradition with Pelini hold water.

Terry in Crapchester · Tue Apr 22, 2008 12:29 pm

RumpleForeskin wrote:I love Penn St. because my cousin almost went there and I despise Michigan and Ohio St.. Penn St. and Notre Dame have a respectful rivalry. Back in the day, these teams got after it. It was great football. No...it was THE best football. I miss it.

I'm glad you brought this up. Killian has noted in the past that ND has two significant rivals, USC and Michigan. Back in the 80's, we had a third significant rivalry -- Miami. That rivalry, however, developed a tone with which ND's administration was a little uncomfortable, to put it mildly, and the series ended soon thereafter.

In the early 90's, Penn State could have become ND's third rival. The series had been regular throughout the 80's, ND's fanbase would have accepted Penn State as a rival, and ND's Administration would have been comfortable with the tone of the series. Also, Penn State would have provided the perfect geographic balance as an eastern school, since ND already had a rival in the West (USC) and a rival in the Midwest (Michigan). That would have left the South as the only region not accounted for, and ND's fanbase is smaller in that area anyway. All Penn State lacked was a significantly long rivalry with ND. But then again, Miami rose to rival status without that (Miami and ND had been regular opponents prior to the 80's, but ND dominated the series back then).

Unfortunately, Penn State chose to go to the Big Ten instead, ending a great series in the process. What could have been . . .

I suppose it could be argued that the conference expansion was inevitable, but it's worth noting that Penn State was the very first domino to fall. And while I realize PSUFAN is a Big Ten honk, and I'm not a Penn State fan, from the outside looking in over here it seems that Penn State's decision to join the Big Ten was part and parcel of his complaint about the current status of Penn State football. Penn State sacrificed a budding rivalry with ND, not to mention a continuing series against its most historically significant rival (Pitt) for benefits that cannot possibly, imho, make up for that. Now they're left as a permanent second-class citizen status within their new conference and no rival. The "rivalry" with Michigan State is as about as contrived as you can get. Ohio State could be a rival, except for one thing: tOSUfan already views Michigan as his team's most significant rival, and that's not about to change. I guess Penn State fan can hang his hat on the tOSU game, as long as he doesn't mind playing second fiddle to Michigan for eternity. But if I were a Penn State fan, I wouldn't accept that.

I realize some in here will probably criticize me for hijacking this thread to address one of my pet peeves. But like I said, from where I stand this is part and parcel of PSUFAN's complaint. If anyone here wonders why I'm so protective of ND's independence, in general, and so opposed to membership in the Big Ten in particular, one need look no further than Penn State for the reasons.

King Crimson · Post by **King Crimson** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 1:42 pm

i don't think Penn State is viable in today's media world as an independent. outside the East Coast, there's not the national appeal (even if it's love/hate) or national fanbase that ND has.

and i as a referenced above, several years ago i did research into PSU's schedule as an independent and it's not all that. Duquesne, Bucknell, Army more of those type schools than the occasional Nebraska. a lot more. now, that would change in today's world....but i don't think pointing to PSU joining the Big 10 explains the decline of the football program....more than Joe P. hanging around too long and having yes-men on the staff.

that said, every person without exception that i've known, been friends with (couple good buddies), or had as a grad school faculty who went to PSU was great. for a huge school, i've been singularly impressed with every person i've met who went there. if it weren't for PSUFAN rocking a Misson of Burma sig on the last Rome board, i doubt i would have ever registered to post. see?

SoCalTrjn · Post by **SoCalTrjn** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 7:26 pm

And here I thought Notre Dame stopped playing the Canes because Miami beat them 6 out of the 9 times they played them in the 80's.

PSUFAN · Post by **PSUFAN** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 8:51 pm

I disagree, Terry. I think PSU and ND could have maintained a rivalry matchup, if only because ND has maintained one with UM and MSU without too much trouble. Also, I don't think that the toughness and goals have been reduced as a result of entering the Big 10. I think they have been reduced because Paterno has shifted his priorities and his focus.

I am not a Big 10 honk; but I am happy to see PSU compete in that conference more than any other they might have joined. I recognize that to designate PSU and MSU as rivals feels a little contrived - but I do recognize them as a conference rival. As a fan who enjoys tough matchups, I am glad to see PSU play the Big 10 slate.

I think there is a lot of work to be done before PSU can contend for conference titles yearly, and I am anxious to see the program begin that work. I don't think they should be in a weaker conference just so they can dominate. PSU doesn't blow teams out like they used to, and they have looked quite ordinary against Big East opponents in the last decade or so. Lowering the bar is never the answer, that is what I was getting at above.

I wish PSU played Pitt and ND each year, though. We've been playing Pitt since 1893, and the PSU/ND matchup seems like a good one, despite the fact that the last two games were rather one-sided.

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 9:29 pm

No, dumbfuck, ND administrators and alums didn't enjoy having urine poured on them at the Orange Bowl. Also, we play one team every other year that's in the middle of the fucking ghetto, we don't need two.

SoCalTrjn · Post by **SoCalTrjn** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 10:47 pm

urine bombs? did they stop a series vs LSU?

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 4:39 am

Jsc810 wrote:Bo P is a hell of a coach, just a matter of time before Nebraska returns to its rightful place among the college football elite.

Bo is a much better fit for Neb than BC. Bo embraces our traditions such as the walk-on program(has already brought-in several that passed on schollies at Div1, 1AA, and Div2 schools). He is building on a foundation of fundamentals, motivation, S&C, and a very physical/aggressive brand of football. He'll get us back to winning football. I hope you are right about getting back to elite status. With the improvement in the 12 going-on that won't be easy, there will be a lot of tough teams to get by.

Terry in Crapchester · Wed Apr 23, 2008 11:01 am

PSUFAN wrote:I disagree, Terry. I think PSU and ND could have maintained a rivalry matchup, if only because ND has maintained one with UM and MSU without too much trouble.

Penn State joining the Big Ten created the perfect storm in terms of continuing the series. When you consider that: (a) in addition to Michigan, ND also has Purdue and Sparty as regulars on the schedule; (b) ND wants a tune-up game before the Michigan game, like Michigan has before ND, and neither Purdue nor Sparty wants to fill that role; and (c) the Big Ten has a September-only rule for scheduling ND; there simply isn't enough room in the schedule for ND to fit in Penn State. Short of either: (a) ND dropping either Sparty or Purdue, or alternating those two schools on the schedule; or (b) the Big Ten relaxing the September-only rule about scheduling ND, I don't see any possible way to resume the series as long as Penn State remains in the Big Ten. The best we'll see going forward is an occasional home-and-home in years where there are five Saturdays in September (such as '06 and '07). OTOH, if Penn State had joined, say, the Big East or the ACC instead of the Big Ten, I see no reason why the series with ND could not have continued.

I wish PSU played Pitt and ND each year, though. We've been playing Pitt since 1893, and the PSU/ND matchup seems like a good one, despite the fact that the last two games were rather one-sided.

Agreed.

SoCalTrjn wrote:And here I thought Notre Dame stopped playing the Canes because Miami beat them 6 out of the 9 times they played them in the 80's.

It wasn't so much the losses as it was the manner in which ND lost the '85 game. Jimmy Johnson kept his starters in for the entire game, and even called a passing play for Miami's final touchdown with a 44-point lead. That's why I always got a big chuckle out of references to Steve Spurrier as "college football's original terrorist." Jimmy Johnson was doing that horseshit back when Spurrier was still coaching at that basketball school in Durham, NC.

I was a senior in '85-'86, and I've hated Johnson ever since that day. It amazes me that so many on ND Nation are advocating that ND sign a TV deal with Fox. I don't want Johnson anywhere near a telecast of ND football, just one of the reasons why I'd never consider Fox. But I digress.

Killian wrote:No, dumbfuck, ND administrators and alums didn't enjoy having urine poured on them at the Orange Bowl. Also, we play one team every other year that's in the middle of the fucking ghetto, we don't need two.

Also, I don't think the pre-game tunnel brawl at ND Stadium in '88 did any favors for the series, although considering that the last game was played in '90, I think the decision already had been made by that point.

In fairness to Miami, though, I believe that they only play their football games in the middle of the ghetto. The campus itself is in a suburban setting, IIRC.

PSUFAN · Post by **PSUFAN** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 5:00 pm

Paterno is legendarily grudging when it comes to scheduling, Terry. I'm sure someone in some bygone era's athletic department at South Bend offered offense, somehow, and that axe is still swingin' for Joe.