Market Update

It's the 19th Anniversary for T1B - Fuckin' A

Moderator: Jesus H Christ

KC Scott

Market Update

Post by KC Scott »

This thread will be an ongoing look at where the market is and my fearless forecast of where it might be heading.... :meds:

We have been in a confirmed downtrend since Nov. - but despite what you read, this is a correction - not a long term bear market or recession. Earnings from companies like GE and IBM are already in for Q1 and they remain solid, if unspectacular. The market is based on earnings. The stocks that have sold off as a result of the subprime & credit mess, including Financials & Homebuilders will continue in downtrend for at least several more quarters. They have dragged everthing else with them. For now.

Take a look at this long term S&P chart:

Image

This major trendline is still in tact.

Here's the caveat from Brian Shannon at Alpha trends:
The S&P 500
has dropped to the level where there "should be" support and this morning's action is showing some buyers....so far. The market is in a downtrend and any bounces which materialize from here should viewed suspiciously. Some of the sharpest rallies occur in downtrends as shorts cover and sidelined cash gets sucked in, but markets take TIME TO HEAL after this much technical damage has been done.
My take is there are long term buying ops right here, right now.
My opinion is the best way to play is buying 1/3 position, and then looking to see what transpires over the next couple weeks as more earnings and guidance are announced.
User avatar
War Wagon
2010 CFB Pickem Champ
Posts: 21127
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2005 2:38 pm
Location: Tiger country

Re: Market Update

Post by War Wagon »

Ouch!

My 401k took it in the ass this past week, losing almost 10% of it's value. I sure hope this "correction" is only temporary.

I shoulda' got out of the high risk/high return markets last month, I reckon. Now that the damage is all but done, (crosses fingers) there's nothing left to do but ride this out.
KC Scott

Re: Market Update - Jan. 21

Post by KC Scott »

Europe and Asia both falling hard today - US Stocks will open down Tuesday.
This may be a good thing - as enough sell pressure could trigger a capitulation rally.
The Stages of a Bear Market − − Denial, Concern, Capitulation
Fri, Jan 11 2008, 05:48 GMT
by Comstock Partners Team
Comstock Partners Inc.

Let’s put this market into perspective. Generally bear markets go through three psychological phases - denial, concern and capitulation. Most often, but not always, the market rallies between each phase. The denial phase is the initial significant downleg from the bull market high. During this phase the majority of investors are still in a bullish frame of mind, after seeing continuing profits in their account and having seen the market bounce back from prior corrections. They look upon the decline as merely another buying opportunity and think that stocks are now cheap. In addition the fundamentals during this phase are still perceived as positive and any negative news is downplayed. Following this phase the market usually rallies, but on weak breadth and lower volume.

Eventually the market tops out well below its previous high and starts a new downleg carrying it to lower lows. During this phase the fundamental news significantly worsens and investors realize that that a bear market is in force. This is the phase of concern. During this phase many investors sell, but others hang in, feeling that the bad news is discounted and that a bottom is near. At this point the market may rally again as many observers feel that the decline has ended and that a new bull market has begun. This rally, also characterized by weak breadth and low volume, subsequently fails and heads down. At this point the majority becomes exceedingly bearish and throws in the towel, fearful of further declines and the potential disappearance of their assets. This is the capitulation phase, when stocks are sold on fear and emotion rather than on rational analysis. It is at that point that the market is finally ready to make an important bottom.

Obviously the above description is a generalized outline based on history, and never takes place in exactly the same way. However, we think that it provides a rough framework of what to expect.

Currently, the market is somewhere between denial and concern. While a large number of observers have recently switched to the recession camp, surveys of economists as well as comments in the financial press and TV indicates that the consensus is still looking for a soft landing, followed by a quick recovery with new market highs by year-end. As we pointed out in our last two weekly comments, we think that we are either in a recession now or about to enter one very soon. Furthermore, since we last wrote, more evidence of weakness has emerged, including a weak employment report and disappointing December retail sales. Consumers are likely to remain under pressure as a result of a weakening labor market, a negligible savings rate, high gasoline and food prices, plunging mortgage equity withdrawals and the ongoing deteriorating credit situation. With consumer spending accounting for 70% of GDP, it seems that a recession is a high probability—and capital expenditures usually follow consumer spending by a quarter or two.

Moreover, the stresses in the economy are now spreading to credit card companies. Capital One missed its 2007 earnings estimate by 20% amid increasing defaults, and raised its reserves substantially. Today American Express lowered its 2008 outlook, citing slower spending and more missed payments on credit cards as a result of the housing weakness spreading to other sectors of the economy.

With the news continuing to worsen, it will not be long before a recession is universally acknowledged and market attitudes change to "concern" and eventually to "capitulation". While the Fed will undoubtedly cut rates significantly and the Administration will attempt to initiate stimulative measures, the recession and falling earnings estimates are likely to play out as they always do. While the downturn is likely to be interspersed with misleading rallies, at some point investors will capitulate and the market will bottom. At present, though, we believe the bear market is only in its early stages.
Constock believes we're only in the early stages of the Bear - they may be right.
The reactions to the first rally and any subsequent follow through days will tell if we are close to a bottom or if there's more pain ahead.

Tech sector will weigh heavily on the markets this week - MFST, AAPL, TXN, JAVA & MOT among others report.
As previously mentioned - last week IBM and AMD both were up and with respectable forward guidance
I suspect the techs will have decent reports and more important decent guidance.
Almost all major market moves / recoveries begin in tech - the SMH is a very good barometer

Image

Last week the SMH briefly broke a 3 yr. low - but was subsequently bought bringing it back above the support line.
Should SMH close below 27.43 on the weekly, it's a decent indicator that we're not close to the bottom
KC Scott

Re: Market Close January 22

Post by KC Scott »

Stocks sold off hard as the panic from looking at the world markets melt yesterday had a speculators and investors dumping huge market sell orders at the open.

Here's the funny thing - there were a lot of buyers 7-10% underneath so all the major averages finished with only modest damage (1-2%)

What's that mean? who the fuck knows, but here's my guess: In a best case scenario we move sideways at these levels for a week or so.
We could even drift down a bit as long as the markets do not close below today's lows.
If we do go sideways - it will clear out the sellers as they'll cover shorts and will signal to the institutions/big money it's safe to start buying.

If we break the AM lows, it's gonna get really, really ugly and the recesssion / bear market will be on.
KC Scott

Re: Market Update 1-23 - Finally a Rally

Post by KC Scott »

Wild swings in today's market; at one point Dow down over 300 points only to finish up 300 points (2.5%) on the day - Same for the S&P 500.
Last night we had Apple giving tepid guidance, so the tech heavy Nasdaq didn't participate as much only gaining 1%

With the market as oversold as it had been, the theory is shorts were forced to cover positions today. That may be the case, and if so we'll look for some sideways movement as mentioned in the previous post. The confirmation a new buying cycle is begininng for the Institutions will be a follow up day over 1% index rise on volume at least equal to today. The Financials were a segment leader and that's also a bullish sign.

Again, if for any reason Tuesdays lows are taken out, we're going a lot farther south.
KC Scott

Re: Market Update

Post by KC Scott »

Short post as I'm on the road yet again. The Fed rate cut pumped the market for an hour and then sellers took strong control at end of day.

Based on Today's action - the forecast is this market will continue to drift lower - though maye sideways (my guess is through the spring now at least) , at least testing last Wednesday's low - And I expect that to get taken out now based on today
User avatar
War Wagon
2010 CFB Pickem Champ
Posts: 21127
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2005 2:38 pm
Location: Tiger country

Re: Market Update

Post by War Wagon »

KC Scott wrote:
Based on Today's action - the forecast is this market will continue to drift lower - though maye sideways (my guess is through the spring now at least) , at least testing last Wednesday's low - And I expect that to get taken out now based on today
Great call.

Dow up 200 points today.
KC Scott

Re: Market Update

Post by KC Scott »

Wags - first off, if you don't ever learn another thing from this fourm, or investing in general, it's don't watch or quote the Dow unless you own the DIA ETF. When you hear up 200 pts. it may sound like a lot to you, until you consider it's a 1.67% move. Focus on the SP 500 ($SPX) - That's most likely where your 401K is (or should be). Also whenever there are dramatic moves in a bear market, there will be bounces, but that doesn't mean the trend has changed directions.

I was on a plane all today - but I watched the sell off happen Wednesday and it was wild.
It started 30 minutes before market close and was a vicious drop.

Now it may have been shorts flooding the market or may have been buyers selling into strength of the Fed announcement.
I didn't see todays action - but looking at the chart it was the opposite - a gap lower that was bought through the day.
Volume was lower than Wednesday - but not by a lot.

My gut tells me short covering - and last week wasn't a/the bottom.

We broke a 3 yr. Trendline on the weekly chart (the heavy green line) and a 200 week moving average (the wavy red line under it) and 1304 which was a 61.8% retracement of the past 3 years advance and combined, is not something that usually repairs itself in 2 following weeks.

Image

Our best case scenario is we start a new trend along the two purple lines which means we don't go below 1,275 on any daily or have a close below 1,320 on the weeklys.

This bounce could get as high as 1,430 - the 50 DMA but would be very surprised if it stayed above that mark - at least over the next 30 days.
As always, this is just my view - so take it for what it's worth
KC Scott

Re: Market Update

Post by KC Scott »

War Wagon wrote:
KC Scott wrote:Wags - first off, if you don't ever learn another thing from this fourm, or investing in general...
I've learned that when you say it's time to get out, it's really time to load up, and vice versa. :wink:
By all means Dave... feel free to go all in NOW

Or if you want, I'll give you a link to a joy, joy happy site where everything is all good news, all the time

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As I wrote on the 23rd - that low has to hold or we will go a lot lower.

On the flip side, if that low holds there's a chance we could have a repeat of the 2005 market
When a chart mimics another specific time frame it's called a Fractal.

A guy from one of the trader boards I frequent is very adept at spotting "fractals"
He identified the one I'm referencing:

Image

In this scenario the SPX will run to around 1420 then pull back to 1330 area before taking off
KC Scott

Re: Market Update - Monday Night

Post by KC Scott »

Interesting chart I worked on for IOO - This is the S&P 100 Global - an ETF of the 100 largest cap companies in the world:

Image

What's interesting about this is the sell offs that you see connected on the bottom trend line could be classified as "Climax Bottoms" - This meaning capitulation on the part of the bulls, that was subsequently bought and continued the trend upwards. Not the that this is a weekly chart so the April-May 2005 bottom and the June-Aug '06 bottom both were not single day events. Bear markets never are.

What you also see reinforces my earlier thoughts that we will revist the lows of Jan. 23 - and as long as that low holds the major damage may be over.

It's also why you never get in a hurry trying to call /buy a bottom.
There should be multiple opportunities to get in if Jan. 23 holds.

Cash is King.
User avatar
poptart
Quitty McQuitface
Posts: 15211
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 1:45 pm

Re: Market Update

Post by poptart »

Climax Bottoms
I'll admit, I rented it once when my wife was out of town.


capitulation on the part of the bulls
Concise summary of the plot, yep.




I'm pretty much buy-and-hold, Scott.
But that's just me.

Your info is interesting, though, thanks.
KC Scott

Re: Market Update

Post by KC Scott »

Have been in Seattle since Tuesday, so this is the first real chance I've had to look over the market.....

Nothings really changed. :?

We're doing what I thought we would - setting lower highs and lower lows since Wags duly noted the "200 pt. Up day" Jan. 31 (AKA "Bounce")

So where we're going?

I think a test of the bottom coming - maybe tomorrow or Monday.
It may take the SPX all the way down but it will be close (my guess is SPX 1,300)
If it rises back on volume, we may level off until the spring.
But if it gets below 1,270 - look out below - it will go down fast and hard
Everyone will then be guessing where the next bottom will be.

BTW - there is a very good chance Berneke will announce yet another cut in the Fed rate next Tue or Wed.
That, combined with the massive short interest may be the final fuel needed
KC Scott

Re: Market Update

Post by KC Scott »

KC Scott wrote:Short post as I'm on the road yet again. The Fed rate cut pumped the market for an hour and then sellers took strong control at end of day.

Based on Today's action - the forecast is this market will continue to drift lower - though maye sideways (my guess is through the spring now at least) , at least testing last Wednesday's low - And I expect that to get taken out now based on today

As Predicted the Jan 22 Low was taken out today - Tomorrow has the potential to be a Black Friday type of meltdown for the markets.

That may not be a bad thing, as most we needed to test that low and see if there is a new bottom that can be formed.

If you're sitting on cash, waiting to get back in Long - now is when you really need to pay attention.

If you didn't move to cash in early Jan (at the latest) then your already down 10-15% anyway, so what the hell ('sup Wags)

Not that anyone is reading this anyway...... :|
User avatar
Charles De Mar
Elwood
Posts: 354
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2008 10:02 pm
Location: Eating the Chinese Buffet @Stcuknut.c0m

Re: Market Update

Post by Charles De Mar »

There's a lot of people reading this and .... :x
yumyumsaladbar wrote:Hey Pickle. I think we're going to be friends
Do you know when you have a wank in the tub and the spunk gets all rubbery and floats to the surface? - thats pretty much like your posts on this forum. You seem to me like like some sort of rubberized jism ....floating on a sea of soapy piss water
Goober McTuber
World Renowned Last Word Whore
Posts: 25891
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 1:07 pm

Re: Market Update

Post by Goober McTuber »

Charles De Mar wrote:There's a lot of people reading this and .... :x
Yes, I do stop in and check this out. So, Scott, watching the performance on my current 401K, I could easily get depressed and start moving my retirement date out a few years. But my inclination is to bump up my contribution to the 401K by another % or two, with the idea that the depressed purchase price will reward me when the market recovers. Your thoughts?
KC Scott

Re: Market Update

Post by KC Scott »

Goober McTuber wrote:
Charles De Mar wrote:There's a lot of people reading this and .... :x
Yes, I do stop in and check this out. So, Scott, watching the performance on my current 401K, I could easily get depressed and start moving my retirement date out a few years. But my inclination is to bump up my contribution to the 401K by another % or two, with the idea that the depressed purchase price will reward me when the market recovers. Your thoughts?
What is you're % in equities v. cash v. bonds v. real estate or any other holdings?
That's the first question to ask yourself.

The general rule is your 100 - your age = % you should be in equities.
Example: If your 55 then no more than 45% of your total net should be ins stocks or mutual funds.

As for this market - I think we see the bottom - the real bottom of this bear sometime around June.
Only beacuse we haven't seen the true capitulation that usually signals the end.
From June thru August we shuld start to level out with a slight upward bias.
September, the market should begin upward.

That market cycle should run 2-2.5 years before correcting
Again, I'm talking big picture (S&P 500)

After that, I'm longer term bearish - it's beacuse the boomers will all start draining their 401Ks and I don't think there's enough liquidity floating into the system long term (unless China keeps buying) to offset this.
Goober McTuber
World Renowned Last Word Whore
Posts: 25891
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 1:07 pm

Re: Market Update

Post by Goober McTuber »

I posted this link in the main forum. Just curious what you think:

http://market-ticker.denninger.net/2008 ... arket.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
KC Scott

Re: Market Update

Post by KC Scott »

Goober McTuber wrote:I posted this link in the main forum. Just curious what you think:

http://market-ticker.denninger.net/2008 ... arket.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Agree.

Shit is going to get worse before it gets better.

As I mentioned, the defaults are hitting the banks primarily for housing right now.
There are also going to be a shitload of defaults on credit cards, car loans, boats and everything else people bought that they couldn't afford.
KC Scott

Re: Market Update

Post by KC Scott »

KC Scott wrote:
KC Scott wrote:Short post as I'm on the road yet again. The Fed rate cut pumped the market for an hour and then sellers took strong control at end of day.

Based on Today's action - the forecast is this market will continue to drift lower - though maye sideways (my guess is through the spring now at least) , at least testing last Wednesday's low - And I expect that to get taken out now based on today

As Predicted the Jan 22 Low was taken out today - Tomorrow has the potential to be a Black Friday type of meltdown for the markets.

That may not be a bad thing, as most we needed to test that low and see if there is a new bottom that can be formed.

If you're sitting on cash, waiting to get back in Long - now is when you really need to pay attention.

If you didn't move to cash in early Jan (at the latest) then your already down 10-15% anyway, so what the hell ('sup Wags)

Not that anyone is reading this anyway...... :|
Still don't know if anyone is interested :D

The March lows I called in this post were a bench mark - we are now headed back down to test those lows - if they are not broken - we should see a decent run up through the rest of this year in the S&P

The next two weeks really are worth watching - if your not invested and plan to get back in the market.
I'll be buying the next huge down day within 3% of those lows at 50% allocation
I'll buy the rest on a follow thru confirmation of market rally


BTW - if those March lows are taken out - I'll be losing Money :(
User avatar
Mister Bushice
Drinking all the beer Luther left behind
Posts: 9490
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2005 2:39 pm

Re: Market Update

Post by Mister Bushice »

I read this thread but I'm just not interested in gambling on the stock market at this point. I don't know enough about it to toss enough money around to make it worthwhile. Hell, phrases like this:
down day within 3% of those lows at 50% allocation
Make me say - ok, don't completely understand what that means, so it's probably not wise for me to get too involved.

I have long term investments that are doing well, and a decent amount of real estate, which is taking a fucking beating at present but should rebound in 3-4 years.
KC Scott

Re: Market Update

Post by KC Scott »

Mister Bushice wrote:I read this thread but I'm just not interested in gambling on the stock market at this point. I don't know enough about it to toss enough money around to make it worthwhile. Hell, phrases like this:
down day within 3% of those lows at 50% allocation
Make me say - ok, don't completely understand what that means, so it's probably not wise for me to get too involved.

I have long term investments that are doing well, and a decent amount of real estate, which is taking a fucking beating at present but should rebound in 3-4 years.
It means on March 17 the S&P 500 hit a low of 1257 - When it is +/- 3% range I'll buy 50% of my position - and that will depend on how the market is acting.

If it goes more than 3% below 1257 (1219) - that would consititute exiting the position (selling) beacuse the bottom is really falling out -

It's called testing a low and it must happen at every turning point in a bear market.
The market must see if there are sufficient buyers to absorb the supply - ie; get on the bus

This isn't you, me and grandma either - it's the big institutions and funds that have been in cash for 9 mo. +

If they're not buying now - with interest rates as low as they can go - then we're in for a really, really bad market stretch for the foreseeable future.
KC Scott

Re: Market Update

Post by KC Scott »

As mentioned - this week I'll begin buying select Indexes

The First two i like are IOO which is the S&P 100 Global Index - I'll also be buying QQQQ which is the Nasdaq 100 Index

Rather than 50% positions - I think I'll buy 33% of each to start and watch how this week unfolds
User avatar
Mister Bushice
Drinking all the beer Luther left behind
Posts: 9490
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2005 2:39 pm

Re: Market Update

Post by Mister Bushice »

How about some running commentary on that?

I'd like to see how that shit works.
KC Scott

Re: Market Update

Post by KC Scott »

Mister Bushice wrote:How about some running commentary on that?

I'd like to see how that shit works.

OK today we had a triple bottom on the S&P 500

Image

That means on three separate occasions Jan, March and now July the SPX hit the 1260-1270 level but was "bought" back up.
There is also a longer term trendline still in tact from the summer of 2006

This is a very bullish sign in terms of the stock market -

This doesn't mean it's going rocketing to the moon beacuse it will encounter selling by many trapped above at higher prices - but at least it gives us a place to start.

I bought 1/3 of my position of SSO today at 61.06 per share - that means 33% of the total amount I plan to buy of the S&P 500.
The other 66% will be bought within the next 1-2 weeks depending on market action

SSO is a 2x ETF fund that is bought and sold like a stock. It's results are two times the performance of the S&P 500 meaning if the S&P 500 goes up 2% SSO will go up 4% - if it goes down 2% well ............ you get the idea.

Is was going to Buy IOO today also (S&P Global 100) but it is so thinly traded that I backed off. Maybe will look again but I like issues that have enough activity that if I do want to sell I can get within a few cents of my price in a hurry.

Since I spent all my time watching SSO I neglected to look at the Nasdaq 100. There is a 2x ETF for it also - the symbol is QLD.
Since we're still in a holiday week and there''s lots of fear I'm sure I'll be able to catch it Wednesday or Thursday for my initial entry.
User avatar
Mister Bushice
Drinking all the beer Luther left behind
Posts: 9490
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2005 2:39 pm

Re: Market Update

Post by Mister Bushice »

ETF?

What time frame do you set, if any on the stock after purchase? do you sit through dips and wait for it to come up, or do you set a marker when to dump it?

Also - Who do you trade through?
KC Scott

Re: Market Update

Post by KC Scott »

Mister Bushice wrote:ETF?

What time frame do you set, if any on the stock after purchase? do you sit through dips and wait for it to come up, or do you set a marker when to dump it?

Also - Who do you trade through?
ETF = Electronic traded fund - it's bought and sold like a stock and unlike a mututal fund there's no management fees or minimum investment period, They usually seek to mirror the holdings of a major index or inverse same (Inverse meaning if the stocks of that index go down the price of those shares go up)

I have various accounts with various time frames. My IRA is what I'm buying for right now so I have a broader horizon. But I'm just not a "buy and hold" guy beacuse I've seen what happens. The markets move in business cycles and getting in and out anywhere close to those peaks and valleys isn't that difficult. I started screaming about the pending market crash about 8 months too early and went almost 100% cash in all accounts, I've IT (intratrend traded) my trading account on a few things - some were posted here when I thought people were still reading this :P

As for setting a Marker (it's called a stop) yes - and you have to be disciplined as hell to do it. Once I complete all my buys on my IRA I'll set a stop based on where the market is in relation to past long term support. If I've done it right it shouldn't give me more than 5% exposure to loss. For the trading account I'll usually set a hard stop at 6% of the buy price.

There's lots of good trading platforms to use - Schwab and Scottrade are both excellent and cheap. They give you no advice (which is good cuz then you have only yourself to blame if you fuck up) - they are flat fee's of $7 or $12 depending on which you use. When i started I used E-trade but they sucked from a tech support standpoint and their trades also went up to like $15 per
User avatar
Mister Bushice
Drinking all the beer Luther left behind
Posts: 9490
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2005 2:39 pm

Re: Market Update

Post by Mister Bushice »

I have a Scottrade account with a gold money market fund that I started several years ago, but I honestly have not had time to learn this stuff.

I was hoping to live vicariously off your knowledge for a while, until it started becoming clearer to me. :)
KC Scott

Re: Market Update

Post by KC Scott »

Made another Buy of SSO (SP500 2X ETF) today at $58.30 per share - Again this is for the Long term IRA account

I'd like to see the Nasdaq break down more - I want to own the NAZ but not till i see capitulation
User avatar
Mister Bushice
Drinking all the beer Luther left behind
Posts: 9490
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2005 2:39 pm

Re: Market Update

Post by Mister Bushice »

KC Scott wrote:Made another Buy of SSO (SP500 2X ETF) today at $58.30 per share - Again this is for the Long term IRA account
So you buy shares of this stock, and - add the profit to an IRA?
KC Scott

Re: Market Update

Post by KC Scott »

Mister Bushice wrote:
KC Scott wrote:Made another Buy of SSO (SP500 2X ETF) today at $58.30 per share - Again this is for the Long term IRA account
So you buy shares of this stock, and - add the profit to an IRA?
No - I have an IRA account that was a 401K from my previous company. When I left, I then turned the account into an IRA. When it was a 401K my only options were mutual funds. As an IRA I can buy funds, stocks or whatever other investment vehicles the brokerage carries.

For reasons previously described I like ETFs - So I purchases shares of SSO which is a 2x ETF that will mirror the performance of the S&P500.
KC Scott

Re: Market Update

Post by KC Scott »

An update of the SP500:

Image

We are going to test that July 17 bottom - So here's where we find out if the market has any type of footing or if it will continue going down into the end of the year.

If the July 17 lows holds, then I'll be buying more.

If we break that July low, I'll be selling the 1/3 positions I bought near those lows, and again look at the next levels of support on a yearly timeframe

Preservation of capital is very important right now
User avatar
War Wagon
2010 CFB Pickem Champ
Posts: 21127
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2005 2:38 pm
Location: Tiger country

Re: Market Update

Post by War Wagon »

Preservation of my skinny ass is important right now... as well as capital.

No capital, no fucking groceries.
KC Scott

Re: Market Update

Post by KC Scott »

War Wagon wrote:Preservation of my skinny ass is important right now... as well as capital.

No capital, no fucking groceries.

Bwa - Sorry to hear it dude.

We just set another new low, so as stated above, it's not time to sink any new money into anything.

Maybe a few days or weeks and we'll start to see an uptick - we're on the end of a 9 month business cycle also - so the timimg is right for a rally thru the end of this year.

The real bottom is now forecast for next spring -
User avatar
Derron
Eternal Scobode
Posts: 7644
Joined: Sun Jan 16, 2005 5:28 pm
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: Market Update

Post by Derron »

Preservation of capital is very important right now
So at what point do you cut and run to bonds or something else ?
Derron
Screw_Michigan wrote: Democrats are the REAL racists.
Softball Bat wrote: Is your anus quivering?
KC Scott

Re: Market Update

Post by KC Scott »

Derron wrote:
Preservation of capital is very important right now
So at what point do you cut and run to bonds or something else ?

Damn Derron - good to see you in here, and asking a real question.

So the best answer is if you've already stayed and taken the paper loss, I don't see this current down cycle lasting much longer.
We should have a rally starting soon that will carry us through December.

At that point I'd go 100% cash ie; a Money market Fund (I like GE - if they crash we're all fucked anyway) or Munis should be safe

The charts and guys I follow say the real bottom will be next spring April / May / June before the next long term business cycle happens
User avatar
Derron
Eternal Scobode
Posts: 7644
Joined: Sun Jan 16, 2005 5:28 pm
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: Market Update

Post by Derron »

Well.. I stayed and it yo -yo's back and forth.. I am not prepared to run to bonds yet...

Some days I lose and some I gain..I am pretty well diversified any way...if I though a major melt or run was coming on, I would go to bonds...I was looking hard at it last week..but held on..

I did increase my GE position a bit last week...and pulled in a bit on energy and went to exploration and extraction...I have very little financial position right now.......my bro in law has been in and out of Wachovia a lot in the last month..he's done OK ..not for me though...

While the market is shaky, I don't want to miss some chances...therefore will continue to monitor on a sometimes hourly basis.
Derron
Screw_Michigan wrote: Democrats are the REAL racists.
Softball Bat wrote: Is your anus quivering?
KC Scott

Re: Market Update

Post by KC Scott »

Derron wrote:Well.. I stayed and it yo -yo's back and forth.. I am not prepared to run to bonds yet...
Nor should you be. Bonds, and only really safe bonds, would be where to go around end of December - again, barring anything unforseen
Some days I lose and some I gain..I am pretty well diversified any way...if I though a major melt or run was coming on, I would go to bonds...I was looking hard at it last week..but held on..
Diversification is a good thing - my thing on here is really more about looking at the overall market, seeing what it's doing and trying to get some sort of read on what's expected. Right now the professional traders are saying a rally is coming - but it's what's called an "Intratrend" rally - meaning a diversion away from the overall longer time frame. This IT rally is expected to carry thru near end of December and then a bigger fall to the eventual bottom of this bear market next spring.
I did increase my GE position a bit last week...and pulled in a bit on energy and went to exploration and extraction...I have very little financial position right now.......my bro in law has been in and out of Wachovia a lot in the last month..he's done OK ..not for me though...

While the market is shaky, I don't want to miss some chances...therefore will continue to monitor on a sometimes hourly basis.
Contrary to popular belief, I don't day trade - my real job is way to busy for that. I usually just try and catch IT trends as they develop. I'll never sell at the top or buy at the bottom, but I'll also never get left holding the bag.

Right now I'm probably going to again look to buy the S&P 500 and Nasdaq in the coming days and weeks

Here's a really good dude who does daily analaysis of these trends, albeit on shorter time frames with a daily video (though he's on vacation right now)

http://www.alphatrends.blogspot.com/
KC Scott

Re: Market Update

Post by KC Scott »

Bought SSO today at $45.50 and QLD at $47.81 during the big drop - really risky here, but it's in my 401K so I'll have a few years to see it recover :waz:
KC Scott

Re: Market Update

Post by KC Scott »

So here's what's happened on the S&P 500

We've fallen through the bottom of the channel

Image

So Scott - Isn't this like a horrible thing?

Not necessarily - Just like Newton's law "Every action has an equal and opposite reaction" so go the markets.
This is what's known as a selling climax - although there may be some residual selling on Tuesday - I expect the market to be flat.

Then we'll start moving back up into the descending channel - My time frame shows us going up with a 4 week + rally which should go thru the election season.

We'll see - But I made my bets today
User avatar
Derron
Eternal Scobode
Posts: 7644
Joined: Sun Jan 16, 2005 5:28 pm
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: Market Update

Post by Derron »

So what do you say to the talking heads that were looking for a market bottom around 9800 ?

This market is way too responsive to the public pussy bleeding about the bailout plan.

If the politico mother fuckers don't do the bail out plan, I see another tank next week...

I am holding right now...my bro in law got fucked in the ass by a three dick moose..he was holding WB, confident that the CEO had put 16 mil of his own jack into the bank..was on Cramer ( who smokes crack) pimping the bank..then he got fucking rolled in the sellout...I, did not get back in, since I think all bank stocks ( except maybe WF, suck cock).
Derron
Screw_Michigan wrote: Democrats are the REAL racists.
Softball Bat wrote: Is your anus quivering?
Post Reply