The candidate of "change"

[poptart]

The federal government doesn't belong involved with either.

[smackaholic]

They export doctors because it impresses useful idiots. Do you for a moment think Castro doesn't realize this. He could keep them at home working on the locals, but, he could give a fukk about them. There's no good press in it.

Anybody else here remember about twenty-thirty years ago when Fidel was feeling a little under the weather? You'd think no problemo, he's tripping over very capable physicians right there at home. He'll be fine.

Guess what? he climbed on a jet and flew his ass to where the best docs on the planet are, Nueva Jork.

As for exporting doctors and other healthcare assets, I'm gonna go way out on a limb and guess that the country that has over everybody sure as hell ain't Cuba. I'm guessing that it's a different country with an alledged healthcare crisis. I'll give you a hint. The country's initials are US. I will go so far as to guess that number two on the list has less than half the exports of numero uno.

[Dinsdale]

As for exporting doctors and other healthcare assets, I'm gonna go way out on a limb and guess that the country that has :bode: over everybody sure as hell ain't Cuba. I'm guessing that it's a different country with an alledged healthcare crisis. I'll give you a hint. The country's initials are US.

And you'd be sorely mistaken. But close.

That country's initials are UK.


Yeah, the same UK where they pay those doctors to go to school, and that same UK where the government decides their rate of pay, rather than the free market.

Pretty sweet gig, really. Get yourself a fine government funded education in England, then bail to the US without all of those pesky student loans and whatnot.

Hence the large number of British doctors in the US... and I'm guessing we'll be inundated with boatloads of canadian doctors soon enough (who should immediately be assigned to perform brain surgery on Phibes).

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

College, especially grad school, is not a freaking "human right." If you don't have the grades AND the money, you shouldn't go. Period.

Don't worry Lab Rat. Your country is heading towards the feudalism you are so desperately craving.

Say hello to the 11th century for me when you get there.

[Dr_Phibes]

marquis de lab rat?

bet he drinks his coffee from an empty jam jar, he's that working class.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

marquis de lab rat?

bet he drinks his coffee from an empty jam jar, he's that working class.

Have you ever read his posts?
The guy is the epitome of "pull the drawbridge upon behind you".
He's a cultural elite vulgarian that equates wealth and status with genetic predisposition towards hierarchical cultural dominance.

Petit-Bourgeois, minor bureaucrat with delusions of upper middle class status.
Don't hate him though, pity his kind. They're the simpering lapdogs of the ruling class, snapping up the table scraps at their master's feet.


Fuck, I miss the Soviet Union...



...good times *sniff* good times...

[smackaholic]

As for exporting doctors and other healthcare assets, I'm gonna go way out on a limb and guess that the country that has over everybody sure as hell ain't Cuba. I'm guessing that it's a different country with an alledged healthcare crisis. I'll give you a hint. The country's initials are US.

And you'd be sorely mistaken. But close.

That country's initials are UK.

Yeah, the same UK where they pay those doctors to go to school, and that same UK where the government decides their rate of pay, rather than the free market.

Pretty sweet gig, really. Get yourself a fine government funded education in England, then bail to the US without all of those pesky student loans and whatnot.

Hence the large number of British doctors in the US... and I'm guessing we'll be inundated with boatloads of canadian doctors soon enough (who should immediately be assigned to perform brain surgery on Phibes).

Y'know, I don't think I have ever been treated by a limey doc, but, I am fairly certain that I have been treated by limey educated docs from India and other asian shitholes. Bought a car once from an Iraqi oncologist that did his medical training in England. So, if you want to include these folks, I might buy your claim. A link wouldn't hurt either.

As for the limey docs running off to get rich in the colonies after med school, I would think that the UK would frown on that. I am sure that they are under some sort of obligation, probably 10 years atleast, if they benefited from "free" schooling. The US has similar programs where they'll foot the med school bill, so long as you don't mind playing medicine man on a reservation in new mexico for awhile.

[Terry in Crapchester]

Give every man, woman and child free education through the post graduate level and you won't see nearly the shortage of doctors.

Nope. All you'll get is a bunch of overly-educated, bitter freaks who wind up ringing you out at Borders.

Making people pay for their own college education helps to weed out the folks who are just in college for the "social aspects." There's something to be said for having to make huge sacrifices (i.e., investments) of time, effort, AND money in order for individuals to continue persevering with their educations and finally achieving and truly valuing their degree.

Making education free through grad school devalues the degree. I'd bet you'd see a hell of a lot of people going into college and grad school to party for a bit and then drop out when the coursework got to be a drag. You might argue that the minority of folk who do make it through (who might have otherwise, had the education not been free, not been able to do so) make it worthwhile, but I disagree. The waste of resources would be enormous - you'd still have to pay professors' salaries and benefits and all the other costs, the professors and administrators would have wasted their valuable time and energy with dilettantes, and the individuals trying to "find themselves" would be wasting their own time instead of working and being productive.

College, especially grad school, is not a freaking "human right." If you don't have the grades AND the money, you shouldn't go. Period.

Sorry, MIke, but I couldn't possibly disagree more with this. Maybe my background has something to do with it.

Full disclosure: I almost didn't make it through law school (yeah, I know the personal info hacks will have a field day with this one, but this is an important enough topic to bring it up.) My problems were not academic, mind you, but financial. As it turned out, I had to take a leave of absence for about a year and a half, move back home with my parents (talk about humiliating, but at least it reduced my rent to $0), work two jobs, and an unpaid internship (which at least got me over the hump as far as credits were concerned), all at the same time, just to have the necessary financial means to finish law school. As it is now, my student loan indebtedness rivals the national debt (a slight exaggeration, but not as much of one as you might suspect). In all likelihood, I will die still owing money on my student loans.

And all of this was with a partial scholarship. Heaven only knows how tough it would have been without that.

By contrast, most of my law school classmates drove Mercedes, BMWs or Porsches (this was as law students, mind you, not as lawyers), and had mommy and daddy footing the bill for everything. I didn't begrudge them any of that, but I was well aware that it was much easier to get good grades when you didn't have to worry about whether you'd have money enough to pay for next month's rent.

Now, don't get me wrong. I'm not advocating opening the floodgates at American colleges and universities. But the bar to admission ought to be academic, not financial.

[BSmack]

Yes, of course. An hour of shoveling shit takes exactly the same skill set and training as an hour of brain surgery.

If the shit doesn't get shoveled, the brain surgeon dies in a cholera epidemic.

Remove the financial impediment to a higher education and you greatly expand the potential labor pool of surgeons and reduce the pool of shit shovelers. Is this not good?

[smackaholic]

Yeah, them pesky financial impediments. I fukkkin' HATE financial impediments. Why, I'd prolly go find some tradesman dude to do alot of the shit I need done around casa smackaholic, but, you know how it is with them goddamn financial impediments. I was also thinking about how fukking sweet it'd be rolling around in a new Z06, but, well, you know, that FI thing would just bitchslap me down if I even think about it too long.

Rack you for getting over, anyhoo, terry.

Wonder how many of them benz driving punks either didn't finish law school or after finishing, decided to do something else anyway. Would it be fair to the rest of us to have to pay for them?

How 'bout the guy that decides, fukk school, I'm gonna be a plumber. Should he have to pay your LS bill? If so, are you ready to pay 300 dollars an hour to get your shitter unclogged? I mean, if he has to help subsidize your education, why the fukk should you be able to mthen out earn him? And don't give me any sob story about your branch of law paying shit, anyway. You either chose that route or are just not bright enough to get one of the higher paying lawyer gigs.

Not saying that there shouldn't be subsidized educations, but, they shouldn't be available to just anybody that says they want one. If you want the state to pay for your law school education, then you should be required to serve as a pubic defendant your entire fukking career. Same goes with medicine or other fields where there is a need for public slaves errrrrr servants.

BTW, you should feel priviledged for having a parent's basement to go back to. Many of us with divorced/dead/just plain worthless parents didn't have a mommy and daddy to go leech off of.

One other question. You did a tour as a squid O. Did you look into uncle sam paying for LS in exchange for being a JAG afterwards? Or did you have a case of FTN like alot of us did at the time?

[BSmack]

Yeah, them pesky financial impediments. I fukkkin' HATE financial impediments. Why, I'd prolly go find some tradesman dude to do alot of the shit I need done around casa smackaholic, but, you know how it is with them goddamn financial impediments. I was also thinking about how fukking sweet it'd be rolling around in a new Z06, but, well, you know, that FI thing would just bitchslap me down if I even think about it too long.

Tell me, why would it be so sweet to roll around in a Z06? Would it make your dick grow?

[Cuda]

But the bar to admission ought to be academic, not financial.

The problem with that is there isn't enough money in that approach to keep the Educationalist/Financialist/Governmentalist Complex going & growing.

[BSmack]

You have totally missed the point, dumbfuck. Shoveling shit requires no training and no skills. Brain surgery requires years of specialized education and training.

They aren't equivalent in any respect.

They are in their necessity for a functioning society. Just see what happens when a city the size of LA goes a week or two without garbage pickup.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

Yes, of course. An hour of shoveling shit takes exactly the same skill set and training as an hour of brain surgery.

If the shit doesn't get shoveled, the brain surgeon dies in a cholera epidemic.

Remove the financial impediment to a higher education and you greatly expand the potential labor pool of surgeons and reduce the pool of shit shovelers. Is this not good?

You been hanging out at the union hall?

Welcome aboard, comrade. I mean that.

Next stop...

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

Can you feel it?

[BSmack]

What the fuck does that have to do with anything?

If there is a demand for a service, somebody will fill that demand without government interference.

On what fucking planet are you living? Government interferes with the laws of supply and demand on a daily basis.

[Dog]

You have totally missed the point, dumbfuck. Shoveling shit requires no training and no skills. Brain surgery requires years of specialized education and training.

They aren't equivalent in any respect.

I'd say they are plenty equivalent depending on who the patient is.

[Dinsdale]

Have no idea how it works in Los Angeles, but around here, I'm perfectly free to not hire out the local garbage service to haul off my trash (that actually works out really well for a friend of mine, since the 7-11 dumpster is right outside of his backyard). It's voluntary.

What you commies are proposing is not.

Do you not see the difference?


All of your fucking stupidity is predicated on some belief that you have some claim to other people's money.

To this I respond "OK, fine... come and get it." We'll see how that works out for you.


You claim the tax structure in this country isn't fair, yet you want to put more of the nation's wealth into taxes. If this doesn't make you feel dumb... well, you do the math.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

...yet you want to put more of the nation's wealth into taxes. If this doesn't make you feel dumb... well, you do the math.

Uhhh...yeah...
Just reading this thread over again...don't see anyone suggesting crippling tax burdens.

Peddle that Lew Rockwell.com strawman bullshit elsewhere.

[Dinsdale]

Just reading this thread over again...don't see anyone suggesting crippling tax burdens.

No, they just suggested that everyone gets free college.

Where, exactly, did you figure that money was coming from?

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

Just reading this thread over again...don't see anyone suggesting crippling tax burdens.

No, they just suggested that everyone gets free college.

Where, exactly, did you figure that money was coming from?

Cancel one or two of those "democracy spreading" wars, and you'll have enough dough
for health care and education.

[BSmack]

You're a fucking moron. The amount of money we already spend on health care and education dwarfs what we spend on defense.

Link?

[Dinsdale]

Link?

http://www.federalbudget.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.argmax.com/mt_blog/archive/000284.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



Want about 300 more, or is that enough?


I'm all about reducing all kinds of spending. I'm just not going to lie to try and make a point.

[Terry in Crapchester]

Link?

http://www.federalbudget.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.argmax.com/mt_blog/archive/000284.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



Want about 300 more, or is that enough?


I'm all about reducing all kinds of spending. I'm just not going to lie to try and make a point.

BSmack asked for a link supporting mvscal's claim that what we spend on health care and education "dwarfs" what we spend on defense. Neither of the links you provided supports that claim.

First link states that HHS budget exceeds DOD budget by about $100 million for most recent year available. Dept. of Education budget is considerably less than either.

Second link states that 18.1% of current federal budget is spent on defense. By contrast, 7.1% is spent on health and 3.2% is spent on the rather broad category of "education, training, employment and social services."

[Cuda]

"Health Care" spending encompasses far more department budgets than just HHS. Same goers for "Education Spending" and Det of Education.

[Dinsdale]

By contrast, 7.1% is spent on health and 3.2% is spent on the rather broad category of "education, training, employment and social services."

I forgot, there's lawyers here, aka "none too bright people."


Uhm... ever heard of Medicare, by chance?

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

Link?

http://www.federalbudget.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.argmax.com/mt_blog/archive/000284.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Handing money over to drug companies by the wheelbarrow full isn't my idea of
"funding healthcare".

Lobbyists work over Congress on behalf of drug companies.
Drug companies get federal subsidies.
The rest of you die like dogs in the street.*


MENTAL NOTE TO MARTY: Remind yourself why Americans dying in the street is actually a "bad thing".

[Mister Bushice]

I believe it's called "Canada"

[Mike the Lab Rat]

I think it's cute when Canadians act like their opinions matter.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

Jealous of Canada. That's what it is.

It can be difficult living next to you guys. It's like a little baby...



...sleeping next to an enormous bear...

[Terry in Crapchester]

By contrast, 7.1% is spent on health and 3.2% is spent on the rather broad category of "education, training, employment and social services."

I forgot, there's lawyers here, aka "none too bright people."


Uhm... ever heard of Medicare, by chance?

I also didn't include veterans' benefits, which could fit under the defense rubric, for that matter.

[Dr_Phibes]

Yes, of course. An hour of shoveling shit takes exactly the same skill set and training as an hour of brain surgery.

No, the word 'ability' specifically addresses a skill set. In real, practical terms - they provide the same function with the same result. No communist country has ever had a problem producing qualified people at any position while operating on a social wage system.

I think it's cute when Canadians act like their opinions matter.

If capital is the measure of worth, last I checked the Canadian Loonie was worth more than a Yankee fuula, so that means big changes around here.

Mike, I've got some Cocoa Puffs in the cupboard. Be a dear and throw it in the trash? It's so... working class.
Fetch me some Weetabix. Or better yet, I want fucking Muesli. And move your arse, I'm hungry.

And Smackaholic, thank you for your other critique. I shall engage in some self criticism, re-double my efforts and become a better poster. I am stronger for it!

[Terry in Crapchester]

Yeah, them pesky financial impediments. I fukkkin' HATE financial impediments. Why, I'd prolly go find some tradesman dude to do alot of the shit I need done around casa smackaholic, but, you know how it is with them goddamn financial impediments. I was also thinking about how fukking sweet it'd be rolling around in a new Z06, but, well, you know, that FI thing would just bitchslap me down if I even think about it too long.

Education is a little different from what you're talking about. Sayin'.

Rack you for getting over, anyhoo, terry.

Wonder how many of them benz driving punks either didn't finish law school or after finishing, decided to do something else anyway. Would it be fair to the rest of us to have to pay for them?

As far as law school/lawyers go, it would be fairly easy to attach the necessary strings. So you probably wouldn't have to pay for them, not if mommy and daddy are willing to foot the bill.

I brought up those people only to contrast the level of sacrifice they made with the level of sacrifice I made. Yeah, I suppose you could say that they sacrificed a little, since they gave up three years of potential full-time income. Of course, they probably still had a better standard of living than the salary of a freshly-minted college grad would support (we're talking early 90's here), so it wasn't really that much of a sacrifice. I made that sacrifice too, and much more than that.

How 'bout the guy that decides, fukk school, I'm gonna be a plumber. Should he have to pay your LS bill? If so, are you ready to pay 300 dollars an hour to get your shitter unclogged?

My plumber bills $55 an hour for labor, plus materials, of course. I don't bitch about it, but I don't call him without trying to fix the problem myself first.

Not saying that there shouldn't be subsidized educations, but, they shouldn't be available to just anybody that says they want one. If you want the state to pay for your law school education, then you should be required to serve as a pubic defendant your entire fukking career. Same goes with medicine or other fields where there is a need for public slaves errrrrr servants.

For lawyers, it would be pretty easy, actually. There's one area in which there's a crying need for lawyers: civil legal services for indigent clients (criminal clients as well, to a lesser extent, but the U.S. Supreme Court decision in Gideon v. Wainwright has at least forced the states to cover their butts a little in that regard.

But your entire career, in exchange for three years of law school, isn't exactly a fair trade-off. I'd say something like 5 years, at a very modest salary, say somewhere in the ballpark of $25K per year (maybe a little higher in higher cost-of-living areas).

BTW, you should feel priviledged for having a parent's basement to go back to. Many of us with divorced/dead/just plain worthless parents didn't have a mommy and daddy to go leech off of.

I am grateful for it, and I've said on more than one occasion that I wouldn't have made it without the help from my parents. Tell me, do you think the fellow law students I mentioned are aware of that fact as it pertains to them?

And btw, my mother (and my father, while he was alive) have received plenty of free legal services from me since that time.

One other question. You did a tour as a squid O. Did you look into uncle sam paying for LS in exchange for being a JAG afterwards? Or did you have a case of FTN like alot of us did at the time?

I suppose it was a little bit of FTN. I had wanted to participate in the Montgomery GI Bill, but was told that I could not because I had received a NROTC Scholarship. That and the "maybe we'll give you a designator change, maybe we won't" BS I got from that really got to me. I had intended to enroll in the Reserves after I separated, but three weeks after I separated, Iraq invaded Kuwait. As it became more obvious that we would be going to war, I decided not to go into the Reserves. It would've sort of defeated the purpose of getting out, under those circumstances.

[smackaholic]

Yeah, them pesky financial impediments. I fukkkin' HATE financial impediments. Why, I'd prolly go find some tradesman dude to do alot of the shit I need done around casa smackaholic, but, you know how it is with them goddamn financial impediments. I was also thinking about how fukking sweet it'd be rolling around in a new Z06, but, well, you know, that FI thing would just bitchslap me down if I even think about it too long.

Education is a little different from what you're talking about. Sayin'.

bull.....fukking......shit.

Education, like anything else. It costs money to provide it. You could argue that others besides you may benefit from your receiving it, but, that is a real fuzzy fukking arguement that you could make about alot of things. Bottom line is, you wanna be a lawyer or doctor or whatever, fine. Pay for it. Either in cash or in indentured fukking servitude afterwards. And I'd like to get more than 5 years out of your ass for it. I'd prefer 10 years at you making a decent salary, say 50-60K rather than a shorter time period working at poverty wages.

Rack you for getting over, anyhoo, terry.

Wonder how many of them benz driving punks either didn't finish law school or after finishing, decided to do something else anyway. Would it be fair to the rest of us to have to pay for them?

As far as law school/lawyers go, it would be fairly easy to attach the necessary strings. So you probably wouldn't have to pay for them, not if mommy and daddy are willing to foot the bill.

I brought up those people only to contrast the level of sacrifice they made with the level of sacrifice I made. Yeah, I suppose you could say that they sacrificed a little, since they gave up three years of potential full-time income. Of course, they probably still had a better standard of living than the salary of a freshly-minted college grad would support (we're talking early 90's here), so it wasn't really that much of a sacrifice. I made that sacrifice too, and much more than that.

How 'bout the guy that decides, fukk school, I'm gonna be a plumber. Should he have to pay your LS bill? If so, are you ready to pay 300 dollars an hour to get your shitter unclogged?

My plumber bills $55 an hour for labor, plus materials, of course. I don't bitch about it, but I don't call him without trying to fix the problem myself first.

Good for you. One of the big problems we have is you have the right to fix your own leaky faucet. Our wonderful legal system, on the other hand is set up to buttfukk people in the mouth if they try to fix their own legal issues. I could mention my own little experience awhile back...again... where the court clerk said, "go get a lawyer, or the judge WILL lock you up"

What's your opinion about that extortion racket you fukks have going?

Not saying that there shouldn't be subsidized educations, but, they shouldn't be available to just anybody that says they want one. If you want the state to pay for your law school education, then you should be required to serve as a pubic defendant your entire fukking career. Same goes with medicine or other fields where there is a need for public slaves errrrrr servants.

For lawyers, it would be pretty easy, actually. There's one area in which there's a crying need for lawyers: civil legal services for indigent clients (criminal clients as well, to a lesser extent, but the U.S. Supreme Court decision in Gideon v. Wainwright has at least forced the states to cover their butts a little in that regard.

But your entire career, in exchange for three years of law school, isn't exactly a fair trade-off. I'd say something like 5 years, at a very modest salary, say somewhere in the ballpark of $25K per year (maybe a little higher in higher cost-of-living areas).

BTW, you should feel priviledged for having a parent's basement to go back to. Many of us with divorced/dead/just plain worthless parents didn't have a mommy and daddy to go leech off of.

I am grateful for it, and I've said on more than one occasion that I wouldn't have made it without the help from my parents. Tell me, do you think the fellow law students I mentioned are aware of that fact as it pertains to them?

And btw, my mother (and my father, while he was alive) have received plenty of free legal services from me since that time.

Even a fukking lawyer wouldn't bend his mom over like that. Well, most lawyers, anyway.

BTW, could you get in any sort of trouble with the bar over doing probono work for relatives? I wouldn't doubt it

One other question. You did a tour as a squid O. Did you look into uncle sam paying for LS in exchange for being a JAG afterwards? Or did you have a case of FTN like alot of us did at the time?

I suppose it was a little bit of FTN. I had wanted to participate in the Montgomery GI Bill, but was told that I could not because I had received a NROTC Scholarship. That and the "maybe we'll give you a designator change, maybe we won't" BS I got from that really got to me. I had intended to enroll in the Reserves after I separated, but three weeks after I separated, Iraq invaded Kuwait. As it became more obvious that we would be going to war, I decided not to go into the Reserves. It would've sort of defeated the purpose of getting out, under those circumstances.

Weren't you on the JFK? You got out right around the same time I did. I'm sure I'd know your face or name. You could PM it to me if you'd like. I promise I won't go shrubber on you. As a JO, you musta been a div O. What div were you in. Do you remember a JT Evans? He was our div O for awhile. Light skinned black dude that was a huge bills fan. So, I guess he was probably from upstate somewhere. He left the ship probably in 89. Hope he didn't hang himself as the following years were pretty rough on billfan.

[BSmack]

Weren't you on the JFK? You got out right around the same time I did. I'm sure I'd know your face or name.

You must have a hell of a memory for names and faces. The JFK sported over 3,000 crew members not counting naval aviators.

[smackaholic]

actually, ships company was around 2500. Airwing was similar number. I say I might remember him because he was ship's company and a junior officer. There weren't that many of those. If he was enlisted, I might not remember him because there were so fuking many. Even then, if you work around the same fukks for 4 years, you tend to remember atleast faces.

[Dinsdale]

Not to go all Shrub, but I'm going to go way out on a limb and guess he went by the name Terry...

Just a guess.


Which would make him one of the very few guys on this board not named Mike.

[smackaholic]

Geez, ya think, dins? Don't remember many junior O first names as they tended to not be on a first name basis with us lowly enlisted types. And I am fairly certain that there wasn't any Lt. Crapchesters, either.

I remember 1st names of guys I worked with directly, even the officers. Otherwise I would be more likely to recognize faces or possibly last names.

You can do that after 20 years assuming you haven't smoked a few thousand bails of weed since.

[titlover]

since the topic is the JFK let me just say i cannot believe they let that piece of crap stay commissioned for as long as it did. it was falling the fuck apart when I cruised on it in '92.

oh, for those that care, i.e. no one, i was a scumbag airdale. VS-22

[smackaholic]

Do they still fly the S-3, titlover? I think they got rid of them since the cold war is over and we don't need ASW capability anymore....until ofcourse the chinks get done building their sub force.

I hated that fukking plane because I always had to beg the fukking yellow shirts to move that piece of shit so I could do uhh, ahh fukk it, so I could do "pole checks". Go ahead tards and insert weak homosmack here.

Pole checks by the way is how you check the ships instrument landing system. There is a pole with a receiver on it that gets raised up...as soon as the airdale pos plane captain moves his bird.

Titlover probably was that dude.