Not really all that surprising

[Mister Bushice]

How many games have you watched over the years where you see a blatantly stupid call that turns a game around?

I remember the Lakers series with the Blazers about 5 years back. Shaq was being manhandled by Sabonis all game, he couldn't score against him. Then magically, within about 3 minutes time, Sabonis fouled out with three consecutive fouls, and Shaq went on to score a dozen points. I always thought that game was fixed. Now it doesn't seem so crazy.

Questionable calls
By Adrian Wojnarowski, Yahoo! Sports
July 20, 2007

Adrian Wojnarowski
Yahoo! Sports

LAS VEGAS – The nightmare has forever lurked in the reaches of commissioner David Stern's mind, because NBA officials can control a basketball game with calls made and unmade with the subtlest of touches. These referees are human and flawed and can get deep into gambling debt, get addicted, like everyone else in this culture.

And, of course, what the NBA official wields is the most dangerous weapon of all: a twisted whistle.

As the sun rose on the Strip in Vegas, where the best players in the world had gathered for a Team USA minicamp, the doomsday scenario of fixed games hung over the league like an anvil. The FBI has been conducting an investigation into a referee betting on games that he officiated, and perhaps, making calls to control the point spread, the New York Post reported Friday morning.

In a statement, the NBA said, "We have been asked by the FBI, with whom we are working closely, not to comment on this matter at this time."

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The official had a gambling problem, a source told the Associated Press, and had been approached by lower level mob associates to work with them. Apparently, there were tens of thousands of dollars in bets on games during the 2005-2006 and 2006-2007 seasons.

It's bad enough that this official allegedly could've controlled games in the regular season, but did point spreads and playoff games get decided by a dirty official?

Did a degenerate ref and mobsters play a part in determining a champion?

All Stern can do is bite his lip and take those charges, because everything about the NBA has been thrown into question. For now, uncomfortable questions hang over the league, and each promises to erode its credibility. Until the official is brought on charges, which could happen within the next week, the AP reported, every suspect call a league official has made over the past two seasons comes under scrutiny.

Ten years ago, several NBA officials were indicted for tax evasion over a travel scheme involving airplane tickets. Some of those officials were let back into the NBA, but this is different. This cuts to the core of the NBA's credibility, and perhaps no league has had to spend more time convincing people that conspiracy theories on officiating were unfounded. For the longest time, there was a belief that referees colluded to protect superstars and glamour teams, that they somehow carried out orders and agendas from beyond the court.

Now, the league can't just haughtily dismiss those charges because there could be something worse than anyone ever imagined: mob-controlled referees. Sooner than later, the charges will start to trickle out, possibly with the unseemly details of a referee caught up in the commissioner's worst nightmare. There have been some scandals through the years in the league, but nothing like this. Nothing close. Sooner than later, all hell is going to break loose. The NBA will never be the same again.

[Risa]

Now, the league can't just haughtily dismiss those charges because there could be something worse than anyone ever imagined: mob-controlled referees.

It must be damned happening on the other sub-boards, because I see over a dozen handles are signed on........ but not one person has responded to your post. And it should be responded to.

[Goober McTuber]

It's the NBA. Who gives a fuck.

[rozy]

It's the NBA. Who gives a fuck.

Pernicius and Quadramavellian?

[Mister Bushice]

It's the NBA. Who gives a fuck.

If it's the NBA getting slammed for cheating, I'll pull up a chair and watch that.

[Mister Bushice]

I stopped watching years ago too, although I did watch a couple of Warrior/Dallas playoff games this past season after hearing about them on the radio for months. If it wasn't for the whining and bitching they did after every foul call, it might have been entertaining.

And of course every time Mark Cubans mug was shown on TV I couldn't help but think of Mike Backer and the salad tossin Bimbo he dated. :)

[poptart]

Let me know when they finally decide to round up the NFL criminals.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

TROTS that shit league.

[bbqjones]

game five of the suns spuss series woumsl be a gould start./

bullhickey

[Mikey]

game five of the suns spuss series woumsl be a gould start./

bullhickey

I didn't know about that. This could go badly for the suns.


http://www.spuss.com

[Mike Backer]

I remember the Lakers series with the Blazers about 5 years back. Shaq was being manhandled by Sabonis all game, he couldn't score against him. Then magically, within about 3 minutes time, Sabonis fouled out with three consecutive fouls, and Shaq went on to score a dozen points. I always thought that game was fixed. Now it doesn't seem so crazy.

If the mob and a ref are in cahoots to fix a game, it's gonna be a meaningless Clippers/Grizzles regular season game on a late Tuesday night, not a Playoff game, and definitely not a deciding Game 5 or 7. Just sayin.

And of course every time Mark Cubans mug was shown on TV I couldn't help but think of Mike Backer and the salad tossin Bimbo he dated. :)

:twisted:

[Risa]

I remember the Lakers series with the Blazers about 5 years back. Shaq was being manhandled by Sabonis all game, he couldn't score against him. Then magically, within about 3 minutes time, Sabonis fouled out with three consecutive fouls, and Shaq went on to score a dozen points. I always thought that game was fixed. Now it doesn't seem so crazy.

If the mob and a ref are in cahoots to fix a game, it's gonna be a meaningless Clippers/Grizzles regular season game on a late Tuesday night, not a Playoff game, and definitely not a deciding Game 5 or 7. Just sayin.

Didn't Michigan's Fab Five stand accused of fixing games through the end? If not, they didn't. But if you're going to cheat, and you're used to cheating, and you've always been a cheater, and there's big money on the line -- why not?

Why suddenly practice restraint?

And Mace, I can hear you about not being a fan since the Magic/Bird days of glory. Stopping watching after Michael Jordan (first retirement? second retirement? Bullets/Wizard stint?) is kind of like closing the barn door after the horses have already left. If you want to see the downfall of the NBA, as dominating as he was Michael Jordan was part of the problem. He was the start. Not the Bad boys era Pistons. Not Spree. Not Iverson. Jordan. Michael was All Time King of Star Calls. Whatever star calls existed before Jordan (and they did exist), the refs went to ridiculous measures to keep Mikey boy in the game. Shaq ain't got shit on Michael, and Shaq has had some idiot shit called in his favor. Jordan was the beginning of the end of the NBA being a team game, and the start of the NBA putting stars over teams. (Back on tangent, what ever happened to the whispers that Jordan's gambling crossed over to NBA games?)

[RumpleForeskin]

I'm not so sure that is the case with the mob, Mike. There is more action on bigger games which means they can grab more dough on a game 5 or 7 of a playoff series. The mob isn't about taking small amounts of money on games where there is little action. If they have a ref in their pocket, they want to capitalize. Just my $.02

[BSmack]

I remember the Lakers series with the Blazers about 5 years back. Shaq was being manhandled by Sabonis all game, he couldn't score against him. Then magically, within about 3 minutes time, Sabonis fouled out with three consecutive fouls, and Shaq went on to score a dozen points. I always thought that game was fixed. Now it doesn't seem so crazy.

If the mob and a ref are in cahoots to fix a game, it's gonna be a meaningless Clippers/Grizzles regular season game on a late Tuesday night, not a Playoff game, and definitely not a deciding Game 5 or 7. Just sayin.

Ever hear of Shoeless Joe, Eddie Cicotte and Arnold Rothstien?

You fix a big game because you can lay more money without moving the line.

[Mister Bushice]

Disagree. All the big money would be on the big games, and there have been a LOT of playoff games where the refs were so bad, even some coaches were fined for complaining how bad it was afterwards. It wouldn't take more than one key player to be fouled out near the end of a game to tip the balance.

The NBA refs are so insulated against accusations and accepting blame it's pathetic. The NBA set themselves up for this. Good enough for them if they get screwed by it.

[Risa]

I remember the Lakers series with the Blazers about 5 years back. Shaq was being manhandled by Sabonis all game, he couldn't score against him. Then magically, within about 3 minutes time, Sabonis fouled out with three consecutive fouls, and Shaq went on to score a dozen points. I always thought that game was fixed. Now it doesn't seem so crazy.

If the mob and a ref are in cahoots to fix a game, it's gonna be a meaningless Clippers/Grizzles regular season game on a late Tuesday night, not a Playoff game, and definitely not a deciding Game 5 or 7. Just sayin.

Ever hear of Shoeless Joe, Eddie Cicotte and Arnold Rothstien?

You fix a big game because you can lay more money without moving the line.

I thought Shoeless wasn't even in on that shit, and never wanted to be part of it; he just got busted by association.

Who are Cicotte and Rothstien?

[rozy]

I remember the Lakers series with the Blazers about 5 years back. Shaq was being manhandled by Sabonis all game, he couldn't score against him. Then magically, within about 3 minutes time, Sabonis fouled out with three consecutive fouls, and Shaq went on to score a dozen points. I always thought that game was fixed. Now it doesn't seem so crazy.

If the mob and a ref are in cahoots to fix a game, it's gonna be a meaningless Clippers/Grizzles regular season game on a late Tuesday night, not a Playoff game, and definitely not a deciding Game 5 or 7. Just sayin.

Didn't Michigan's Fab Five stand accused of fixing games through the end? If not, they didn't. But if you're going to cheat, and you're used to cheating, and you've always been a cheater, and there's big money on the line -- why not?

Why suddenly practice restraint?

And Mace, I can hear you about not being a fan since the Magic/Bird days of glory. Stopping watching after Michael Jordan (first retirement? second retirement? Bullets/Wizard stint?) is kind of like closing the barn door after the horses have already left. If you want to see the downfall of the NBA, as dominating as he was Michael Jordan was part of the problem. He was the start. Not the Bad boys era Pistons. Not Spree. Not Iverson. Jordan. Michael was All Time King of Star Calls. Whatever star calls existed before Jordan (and they did exist), the refs went to ridiculous measures to keep Mikey boy in the game. Shaq ain't got shit on Michael, and Shaq has had some idiot shit called in his favor. Jordan was the beginning of the end of the NBA being a team game, and the start of the NBA putting stars over teams. (Back on tangent, what ever happened to the whispers that Jordan's gambling crossed over to NBA games?)

Personally I blame the HipHop culture and the ignorant morons that try and pass off the uncivilized stupidity it portrays as art. People don't watch the NBA anymore because the league is infested with street monkey thugs that are too lazy to learn to shoot, pass, and dribble when they can shoot a gun, buy some hooch, and suck on a pacifier for 8 mil a year instead. Bad calls have always been there. Street monks like Carmelo, Artest, and Iverson haven't.

[BSmack]

If the mob and a ref are in cahoots to fix a game, it's gonna be a meaningless Clippers/Grizzles regular season game on a late Tuesday night, not a Playoff game, and definitely not a deciding Game 5 or 7. Just sayin.

Ever hear of Shoeless Joe, Eddie Cicotte and Arnold Rothstien?

You fix a big game because you can lay more money without moving the line.

I thought Shoeless wasn't even in on that shit, and never wanted to be part of it; he just got busted by association.

Who are Cicotte and Rothstien?

You got the only motherfucking computer on the Interwebs without Google?

[Risa]

You got the only motherfucking computer on the Interwebs without Google?

Al Gore Jr sold my bookmarks for Xanax and weed.

Well, what happened with the Italian and the Jew? were they victims, a la Shoeless? or were they perpetrators?


* Rozy, that's not street culture, that's the Athlete as God-Who-Must-Be-Babied syndrome. You're a Texan, you know how Athletes are allowed to get away with certain shit as long as they win........ but you also know, because you're a man as well as a Texan, how much Respect plays a part in this particular game. You get someone who can discipline young men and be respected by those young men, and whom these young men want to succeed under because they want to make Coach proud, then you won't see what you're talking about.

You get agents and yes people around squeezing more bucks for themselves through their athlete clients, on top of Coaches who are afraid to cross certain lines because the owners and the fans will have their heads, you get folks coasting on being gifted instead of practice.

Look at what happened to Kobe as soon as he was getting 'mentored' by Shaq and his bodyguards when he was having marital troubles with the Shopaholic Golddigger. Then again, Phil was fucking the owner's daughter, so he really couldn't say much of anything himself. But Phil is coach. Phil should be able to put his foot down, as Head of the Team, about what is necessary in order for the team to succeed and what he was and was not going to tolerate.

Phil was only able to do so much. Why couldn't he do more with that team, when it came to discipline?

In what ways was Phil's hands tied? That's not street, that's the Agent and Big Money Contract culture.

[Y2K]

Christ Annie.....

What in the fuck does this have to do with Kobe, Shaq or any other NBA Player, for someone who thrives on "reading between the lines" how can you miss what was right fucking there in your face... Now pay attention....

The official had a gambling problem, a source told the Associated Press, and had been approached by lower level mob associates to work with them. Apparently, there were tens of thousands of dollars in bets on games during the 2005-2006 and 2006-2007 seasons.

This guy was in deeeeep to the Mob, not lower level "Collection Specialists" but to some bad ass motherfuckers working in "Waste Management" who sent the Goons over to let him know it was time to pay the Man or die. Dude was probably a Backroom Card Junkie or gambled over the Internet and was using Loan sharks to finance his self destruction. The Arm Twisters let him know when and what games to fix to pay off his debt then more than likely the Bosses decided to blackmail him till he got caught. Degenerate gambling Ref knows better to talk and name names because it's either spending a few years jail or he's a dead man.

Simple enough for you?

[Mister Bushice]

She's a fucking thread killer, dude. Look around.

[BSmack]

You got the only motherfucking computer on the Interwebs without Google?

Al Gore Jr sold my bookmarks for Xanax and weed.

Well, what happened with the Italian and the Jew? were they victims, a la Shoeless? or were they perpetrators?

Look up the Black Sox scandal. It's all there.

[Moving Sale]

I don't remember who coined the phrase "there's more thugs in the NBA than in San Quentin"...

Darwin.

Sin,
MtLR

[Risa]

Hello, Jack.

Kobe is an instance of someone needing simple guidance and a firm hand, and getting it from people other than his Coach -- and the Owner was part of the problem. Shaq is also an example of someone needing a firm hand (practice wise), and not getting it because someone decided giving Shaq whatever he wanted was more important than improving his free throw, dribbling and ability to run down the court without pretending the NBA was the NFL/NHL. Shaq is an example of someone who benefited from shit ref calls. Jordan is also an example of someone who benefited from shit ref calls. Jordan, more importantly, had whispers of gambling following him.

You know more about the gambling world than me. I'm just saying cheaters never quit cheating. And if the mob really is involved, then there are also players (and other refs) involved beyond this ref. You don't fix games for the small fry shit and ignore the big money shit -- you don't stop doing what you've always done.

It's like the serial killers, who keep doing it until they get caught (or turn themselves in), just because they can.

As for the ref preferring jail to the mob.... with all the gang shit going down in jails, can his safety really be guaranteed? or will it be 'ok' for him to spit out names, a la any Escort Madam or the findings of Abu Ghraib, as long as the Big Cheeses are spared?


How deep will this thing go? or be allowed to go, rather?

[bbqjones]

rozy is a fucking faggot.

im prettyh sure that im right 80 percent of ahthye time.

[rozy]

rozy is a fucking faggot.

im prettyh sure that im right 80 percent of ahthye time.

Not when you spell it right...

[Invictus]

Personally I blame the HipHop culture and the ignorant morons that try and pass off the uncivilized stupidity it portrays as art. People don't watch the NBA anymore because the league is infested with street monkey thugs that are too lazy to learn to shoot, pass, and dribble when they can shoot a gun, buy some hooch, and suck on a pacifier for 8 mil a year instead. Bad calls have always been there. Street monks like Carmelo, Artest, and Iverson haven't.

Fascinating.

I read this thread yesterday and knew it was about the NBA and allegations of the refs cheating.

I was scanning the board a second ago, saw that rozy had posted in this thread and just KNEW that he would inject something about blacks, n...iggers, monkeys, etc. into a thread where really it doesn't belong.

Again, fascinating.

[Y2K]

And if the mob really is involved, then there are also players (and other refs) involved beyond this ref.

I highly doubt it, Major Betting Scams like this don't run this long or profit huge with a large crowd. Mobsters know that just having 1 referee is all it takes and any more creates a situation where someone catches on or word gets out the fix is on. The players are waaaaay to stupid with money and far to reckless and cocky to trust and who is better than 1 single Ref to bankroll a single game betting scam using their own people to place bets in lots of various Sports books across the states. This was small and very profitable to everyone other than the Addict Ref and the fall guys who take one for the team. This ref is dead anyway you look at it, the Feds will offer him a deal and he'll disappear after he gives up a few minor players. He never did or ever will know who the Bosses were, that's how the game's played. Dude HAS to go away because other Mob Bookie's and Loser's will kill him in a prison or on the street for ripping them off. This shit isn't new, Criminals use Peoples addictions against them everyday, everywhere without giving two shits what their society status is or what color their skin pigment is.

Got it yet?

Loose Lips sinks Ships...?

[bbqjones]

i cnbat even fathom toleratitn a racicst. s ./ its just meant to hat blacks and mexicans.

[rozy]

Personally I blame the HipHop culture and the ignorant morons that try and pass off the uncivilized stupidity it portrays as art. People don't watch the NBA anymore because the league is infested with street monkey thugs that are too lazy to learn to shoot, pass, and dribble when they can shoot a gun, buy some hooch, and suck on a pacifier for 8 mil a year instead. Bad calls have always been there. Street monks like Carmelo, Artest, and Iverson haven't.

Fascinating.

I read this thread yesterday and knew it was about the NBA and allegations of the refs cheating.

I was scanning the board a second ago, saw that rozy had posted in this thread and just KNEW that he would inject something about blacks, n...iggers, monkeys, etc. into a thread where really it doesn't belong.

Again, fascinating.

Hey, at least I left gumbo out... gotta count for something

[Invictus]

I wasn't really commenting on whether or not rozy is a racist (I don't give a shit really) but I was remarking that he is very predictable. I can set a "coon clock" to his posts.

If anyone on this board should hate blacks, it should be you bbq. You have one plowing your snow white Mommy each night and whom you have to call "Pappy."

[rozy]

Sweet, I can give you my password and you can move the JTR threads from now on.

Life gets better ever day...

[bbqjones]

it doesnt work that wah

im pretty sure your people would appreciate that.




you still want to play this game?

[Luther]

Vic, I used to run this fantasy basketball league. One owner in our league, Ed, stated at one draft that he was going to only draft white guys. I asked him what he wanted to call his team and he said, "The Caucasian Invasion."

He had this team for about four years. He only drafted white guys and his typical first round draft pick was Vlade. Kind of tough to get a deece pale face that played center. Just so you know, he finished dead last every year.

Rip City

[Invictus]

Uh, no thanks broham. I'll leave that Herculean task to you to continue to do.

Shoot, you move ALL of the crappy threads yourself? You got the short end of the stick, chief. I see where your frustration comes from. I'd hate n...iggers too if I had to do that shit.

[bbqjones]

I'd hate n...iggers too if I had to do that shit.

or live with them for any amount of time.


fist bump?

[rozy]

and rack the "coon clock" blast btw

[Invictus]

it doesnt work that wah

im pretty sure your people would appreciate that.




you still want to play this game?

Your post got a little TOO coherent for my taste. Dude, don't let me, or anyone else throw you off your game. I'm just starting shit on Saturday afternoon.

And, please delete that thread you started in my honor. It is very unnecessary.

My fault.

[Screw_Michigan]

TROTS that shit league.

couldn't have said it better myself.

much like IB ever yearning for the cherry popping that will never happen, i have been waiting for this day my whole life: the nba has been exposed as nothing more than the fucking WWF, and nothing more than entertainment for the lowest common demoniator of society. i must admit: a lot of this has to do with my bitterness towards how professional hockey has decreased in exposure over the last three to five years while the nba has risen. but aside from that, the nba ceased being "sport" years ago, and if you want to get down to it, it hasn't been sport since the jordan rules came about. for years, rules have been abused and tweaked to support an oligarchy of super star players and the league's brass has not so quietly admitted a certain segment of players get more of a shake than they should. i think the arrogance of the league when it comes to admitting the jordan/kobe/lebron rules is what pisses me off the most. yeah, people believed for years that greg maddux and tom glavine were getting more than their fair share of strikes on the corners of the plate, but i can guarantee you this: no official from the umpires union or major league baseball has ever told a umpire to open up a strike zone for a certain super star pitcher or squeeze a super star batter. in the nba, if calls are called evenly, kobe and iverson start crying and the league tells the refs to shape up or suit out: the fans don't come to see the refs.

the nba, and it's parter in crime: ESPN and DISNEY (BIG FUCKING SURPRISE HERE, i never could imagine that the media plague known as disney that has brought us such bogus programming like "who's now?" would be hand-in-hand with something like this), has consistantly shoved style over substance down our throats for years, marketing itself to hip hop culture and the lowest common denominator of society and now it's paying the fucking piper. the talent of the players increases with every generation and yet the nba insisted on emphazing dunks, selfish play, unimaginative offenses and little to no effort into defense and completely ignore the fundamentals of basketball. george mikan would roll over in his fucking grave if he saw how today's basketball talent was being wasted in today's nba in the sake of marketing and ratings. makes you wish you could watch 60's basketball instead of today's nba, and we all know how boring that would be. sure, the athleticism of the players should be highlighted, but true basketball and sports fans see through the bullshit that the lowest common denominator of society misses and yet they felt that was population segment to market to.

the nba became the entertainment tonight of pro sports, had no shame in admitting it, and now it's paying the fucking price. thank the fucking lord. there is no other sport that relies on the celebrity factor like the nba and now, well, too fucking bad assholes. you took a beautiful game and fucked it up to sell out to the hip hop culture, kids who are too young and stupid to see through the bullshit, and corporate idiots who only go to entertain clients. i'd rather watch a mark vershaw-lead wisconsin badger basketball than the "high flyin' glitz and glamour" nba. shit, i'd rather arkansas pine bluff versus alabama a&m instead of the nba finals.

let's focus more on shoving eva longoria and tony parker down the fans throats instead of improving the quality of play in our league? fucking brilliant!

the modern day nba is the 45 year old local school board member who got busted sucking off some piece of shit through a glory hole in the park. yeah, it was fun for a while and you thought you were slick because you kept getting away with it (we're the NBA! we've got it all figured out! NOBODY can match the entertainment buck the NBA brings to the table! we're unstoppable! the hip hop culture is the key to the promised land!), but the one time you get busted, you watch your entire career and family livelyhood go twisting down the fucking shitter.

TROTS that shit fucking league indeed.

and IB, if you've read this far, you are by far the dumbest human being to ever walk upright on the face of god and g0d's earth. only YOU could read nba, ref, fixing games and gambling and bring up fucking kobe.

i'm surprised your sheer idiocy hasn't resulted in your life being ended in some way, like trying to beat a train over the railroad crossing. RACK the live wire that'll hit paydirt when you don't call MISS DIG fry your ass in your backyard.

[Risa]

and IB, if you've read this far, you are by far the dumbest human being to ever walk upright on the face of god and g0d's earth.

Why does reading what you've read make me the dumbest human being on earth? :? you stated your opinion, a lot of it was vent. A lot of it was good, also. I don't agree with your order of problems (would things really be saved if the nba were part of a rock star culture instead? or polka?) but yes, follow the money.

only YOU could read nba, ref, fixing games and gambling and bring up fucking kobe.

I read rozy shaking his fist at 'those darn kids' and brought up kobe. You're a man, right? what is the difference in your work attitude and work ethic when your supervisor is someone you respect as a mentor, versus someone who tries to be your best friend, versus someone you can walk over by going over his or her head?

The NBA needs more mentors. When I hear of superstar neuroses, that tells me someone is putting the cart before the horse. I hate to use the word 'father figure' but you get more long term production out of Cus D'Amato's than Don Kings or pushovers or alienators (which isn't a father figure at all), right? It's not just the players.

Everyone needs to be taken to task.

That includes the Homer fans who willingly pay for all this shit, then point fingers at the 'other guys'. No one could do it without fan complicity. Who's really eating up that hip hop culture? I remember the makeup of the Detroit audience when the Artest-Green incident went down.

Was that hip hop?