Bike Guys... Harley's new motor.

[T1B Nic]

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/060714/cgf018.html?.v=58

Press Release Source: Harley-Davidson, Inc.


New Engine, Four New Models From Harley-Davidson
Friday July 14, 1:00 pm ET
More Powerful Twin Cam 96 and 6-Speed Transmission for 2007 Big Twin Models


MILWAUKEE, July 14 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Harley-Davidson (NYSE: HDI - News) will launch the Twin Cam 96, an all-new Big Twin engine, as it introduces its 2007 line of motorcycles. The Twin Cam 96 will power all models in the Harley-Davidson Dyna, Softail and Touring product families, each of which will also feature the 6-speed Cruise Drive transmission. New motorcycles for 2007 include two VRSC models, the all-new FXSTC Softail Custom, and a limited-edition model celebrating the 50th anniversary of the Sportster introduction.
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"The V-Twin engine has always been the centerpiece of a Harley-Davidson motorcycle," said Bill Davidson, Harley-Davidson Director of Motorcycle Product Development. "It's integral not only to the performance of the motorcycle, but also to its styling, to its sound, and to the way it feels to the rider. The new Twin Cam 96 and 6-speed Cruise Drive transmission offer enhanced performance, while maintaining the traditional aesthetics of the Harley-Davidson Big Twin."

It is the timeless blend of form and function that shapes the character of every Harley-Davidson model. It's a philosophy that dictates that the machine should stir the soul not just through its physical performance, but also through its presence, an expression of the passion that has guided Harley-Davidson for more than a century.

Highlights of the 2007 Harley-Davidson line include:

The new Twin Cam 96 engine, paired with the 6-speed Cruise Drive transmission, delivers up to 17 percent more torque (varies by model family) than the Twin Cam 88 it replaces and incorporates a number of design changes to enhance performance and reliability. It will only be offered with Electronic Sequential Port Fuel Injection (ESPFI). The 6-speed Cruise Drive transmission features quieter helical-cut gears in ratios optimized to match the torque curve of the Twin Cam 96. A sixth gear reduces engine rpm by 11 percent at highway speeds. New mufflers have been tuned to enhance the lower sound frequencies for a more commanding exhaust tone.

The VRSC family of liquid-cooled power-cruisers features two new models. The VRSCDX Night Rod Special offers menacing, blacked-out styling. The limited-edition VRSCX features the pavement-scorching power of a big-bore Revolution V-Twin engine with drag-bike styling and graphics that pay tribute to the NHRA champion Screamin' Eagle / Vance & Hines Pro Stock Motorcycle racing team.

The new FXSTC Softail Custom reprises the styling cues of the classic chopper, with a 200mm rear tire, king-and-queen seat, and Bobtail rear fender.

The limited-edition 50th Anniversary Sportster features special badging, a traditional peanut fuel tank, and other classic components to commemorate the 50th anniversary of the 1957 Sportster introduction.

The FLSTF Fat Boy is refreshed and reloaded for 2007, with new wheels and styling details, a new 200mm rear tire, and the performance of the Twin Cam 96/B engine and 6-speed Cruise Drive transmission.

The FXDC Dyna Super Glide Custom is redesigned to enhance its aesthetic appeal with additional chrome and custom features, including a new two-up, ribbed seat, Fat Bob fuel tank and a mini-pullback handlebar.

Harley-Davidson Custom Vehicle Operations (CVO) will offer four exciting models for 2007: the Screamin' Eagle Road King, the Screamin' Eagle Ultra Classic Electra Glide, the Screamin' Eagle Softail Springer, and the Screamin' Eagle Dyna. Each is powered by a new high-performance Twin Cam 110 powertrain and features new accessories and fabulous new paint schemes.

The new Harley-Davidson Smart Security System, featuring new hands-free fob and auto arming/disarming, is an available factory-installed option for all Harley-Davidson models.

Harley-Davidson will offer 17 new color combinations for 2007.

Harley-Davidson, Inc. is the parent company for the group of companies doing business as Harley-Davidson Motor Company, Buell Motorcycle Company and Harley-Davidson Financial Services. Harley-Davidson Motor Company produces heavyweight street, custom and touring motorcycles and offers a complete line of motorcycle parts, accessories, apparel and general merchandise. Buell Motorcycle Company produces sport motorcycles in addition to motorcycle parts, accessories and apparel. Harley-Davidson Financial Services, Inc. provides wholesale and retail financing and insurance programs to Harley-Davidson/Buell dealers and customers.

http://www.harley-davidson.com

The FLSTF Fat Boy is refreshed and reloaded for 2007, with new wheels and styling details, a new 200mm rear tire, and the performance of the Twin Cam 96/B engine and 6-speed Cruise Drive transmission.

From the HD site...

http://www.harley-davidson.com/CO/NEW/e ... cale=en_US

The pictures should be up very soon. The site is being hit hard right now, though.

Next week is open house all over, and in Sturgis in a couple weeks they will be having demo rides.

[Dinsdale]

I'm assuming the 96 is 96ci.

And a Sportster with 96 cubes?


Yeeeeeahhhhhhh, buddy. There's an appetite for rear tires.


Although I'm sure the anti-American/Hezbolla supporters will have something to say about it.

[Van]

Wake me when they finally catch up to at least the '70s and start offering the Big Twins with liquid cooling, dual crank pins and overhead cams...

[Dinsdale]

Wake me when they finally catch up to at least the '70s and start offering the Big Twins with liquid cooling, dual crank pins and overhead cams...

Van goes all stupid...again.


Read the article much, Van?

Oh, and how are those inverted forks treating the Japs? About time they caught up in that technology race.

[Dinsdale]

Erik Buell's sole obsession is to build streetwise bikes that jack the senses. While other sportbikes employ complex technology for complexity's sake, Buell embraces only those innovations which enhance the riding experience.

[Ace]

I wonder if they fixed the bearings problem or will they advertise that as a "positive feature"?

[Van]

Dins, the article says nothing about the Big Twins getting liquid cooling or overhead cams. It says they're merely growing in size and gaining a sixth gear.

So, they'll still be massively underpowered relative to their size and they'll still need a new top end before they ever get a sniff at 100k miles...

They'll still be overpriced and underengineered antiques designed and marketed to appeal to the lowest common denominator.

Only the V-Rod family will have liquid cooling, and of course that motor was designed by Porsche, not Harley. Of course that motor is the only H-D motor that actually has any semblance of performance.

How are those inverted forks treating the Japs?

Very well, thanks, considering the fact that inverted forks adorn every top level race bike on planet earth.

Race bikes, ya' know? Those are the things that provide the truest test of engineering functionality. There's no bullshit there, no artiface, no marketing effluvium. Either your suspension works and it allows you to hold your line, absorb bumbs and get on the gas harder and sooner...or it doesn't, and you lose. If there was a better way than the inverted telescopic fork of suspending the front end of a motorcycle Valentino Rossi's bike and Ricky Carmichael's bike would surely be using it.

Buell?

Buell????

How are Eric Buell's bike doing in Formula Xtreme racing? How are Erik Buell's bikes doing in terms of sales figures, magazine shootouts and road racing results anywhere?

How are they doing in terms of warranty/recall rankings?

How many other makers are borrowing Buell technology?

Dogshit bottom of the barrel, as always, is how Erik Buell's bikes are doing. They've struggled to even finish a single race despite the advantage of getting to run 1200cc bikes against Japanese 600s. They pile up unsold on Buell's showroom floors. They have some of the worst resale value in the industry. Non Buell dealers (and even some H-D/Buell dealers) simply won't touch 'em as a trade in.

Buell is the WNBA of motorcycling. Take away their monolithic parent company's overriding desire to push the shit down the public's very unreceptive throats and make 'em stand alone and try to compete on their own in the marketplace based solely on merit and the whole project would die on the vine within two years.

Dins, you're really not up to speed at all in this field so just go ahead and tap out.

[Dinsdale]

The VRSC family of liquid-cooled power-cruisers ....

Kinda like all the new engines have been....oh, say....for the last 4 years.


Yeah, you know what you're talking about...:rolleyes:


Because let me tell you, when I'm looking for technical specifications and informed commentary, be it with cars or bikes, the salespeople are always the first ones I talk to, because they're well-known for their honesty, integrity, and intelligence :evenbiggerfuckingrolleyes:

[Dinsdale]

Very well, thanks, considering the fact that inverted forks adorn every top level race bike on planet earth.



Buell?

Buell????


How many other makers are borrowing Buell technology?

Tears, Jerry. Tears.

[Van]

Dins, the VRSC family is the V-Rod family. That's not the Big Twins family, all of which still sport air cooling and pushrod valve actuation.

The V-Rods are 1100cc liquid cooled motors which still use push rods.

The Big Twins, ie, this new 96 cubic inch motor, those are air cooled pushrod motors.

You were saying?

[Van]

Very well, thanks, considering the fact that inverted forks adorn every top level race bike on planet earth.



Buell?

Buell????


How many other makers are borrowing Buell technology?

Tears, Jerry. Tears.

Exactly.

There's not a single fast bike on earth that uses a single Buell style component. Hell, even Buells use inverted telescopic forks, which I'm sure even you know were not invented by Erik Buell.

[Goober McTuber]

Hey Dins, the VRSC family of liquid-cooled power-cruisers are the V-Rods.

[Dinsdale]

First off, I won't claim to have numbers for the present models, nor do I care, but...


surely you realize that a V twn cruiser engine is set up for low-end torque, aka "grunt"?

And even a decade or more after the Japs entered that market, even with their overhead multiple cams and liquid cooling, they still couldn't even come close to the total area under-the-curve, which is how total power of a grunt-motor is judged.

You DO know this, right? Not "peak" numbers, not HP...area-under-the-curve.

Wasn't even a close comparison.


Why do you hate America, you Hezbollah POS?

[Dinsdale]

http://www.motorcycle.com/mo/mcyam/mt01.html


Yamaha's newest concept/prototype.


Yeah, they OBVIOUSLY don't think much of Buell, either.

:world'sbiggestrolleyes:

[Van]

This happens every time Dins' Pavlovian response kicks in...

It never fails. He sees a post of mine concerning motorcycling. His dick gets hard. He snaps. He jumps in and tries to find a way to try to contradict me. He childishly calls me names.

Every time though it ends up going very poorly for Dins because this is just one of many subjects where he has just enough surface knowledge to get himself in trouble. To the unitiated his bluster comes off as somewhat compelling, I suppose, but when he tries to bluff his way though against me he always ends up getting his head kicked in.

He then bails out with more lame spin, usually in the form of more name calling. It could be "You're un American!" or "You're a geek!" or "You're just not cool like me!", but its always an attempt at some sort of last ditch face saving spin.

It's just one major flaw he has as a poster, this compulsion of his to have to try to contradict me, no matter what. Dude just lives to find an episode where for once he can get over on me...and it's just never going to happen. I'll continue to look before I leap and he'll continue to crash himself against me and get his head kicked in...

[Dinsdale]

Oh and btw --

WHICH production bike was the first to use inverted forks again, Vannar?

http://www.motorbike-search-engine.co.uk/buell.html


If Buell is so behind-the-times, why does every single Jap manufacturer copy everything he does?

Like inverted forks, for instance.

[Dinsdale]

Going so badly you went to the "I kicked your ass" card?

But really...it looks good on YOU, Vannie...really.

C'mon...say three Hail Marys and an "I'm in your dome," and you've really got yourself some BODE there, Vanspray.

[T1B Nic]

Sam, & Van...

Show me some stats that PROVE Harley's break down more often than rice bikes.

Stats from someplace OTHER than any fucking propaganda by the Jap bike companies.

You don't like Harley's, fine.

I've NEVER done anything more than general maintance on all the HD's I've owned, and everyone of them had over 40K when traded for a newer model.

I ride, a lot. With others who ride as well. Nobody has ever been left behind because of motor failure.

[Dinsdale]

"You're just not cool like me"

BTW-that's not "lame spin," even as badly as you'd like for that to be the case...


it's the truth.

[Van]

http://www.motorcycle.com/mo/mcyam/mt01.html


Yamaha's newest concept/prototype.


Yeah, they OBVIOUSLY don't think much of Buell, either.

:world'sbiggestrolleyes:

Dins, are you even aware of how old that link is??

This supposed replacement for the aging V-Max has been making the show circuit rounds for a good three years now, and with each iteration it changes a little more and gets a little tamer. It was supposed to be a lock solid certainty for 2007 but nope, the Yamaha info just arrived and the V-Max is still there, unchanged as always...and there's still no MT-01.

Besides, what in the hell do you see on that bike that comes from a Buell?? If anything it owes more to a Britten or even a Confederate than a Buell...

Nice attempt though at quickly changing the subject, btw...

[Jimmy Medalions]

dual crank

*drool*

-IL II

[Dinsdale]

Stats from someplace OTHER than any fucking propaganda by the Jap bike companies.

Uh-ohhhhh....

Dude -- you DO realize that Van IS a tool of Jap manufacturer propaganda, right?

That, and 23%APR financing is how he makes his living.


The reputation for Jap "superior reliability" is based on myth, and it's crucial to Van's day-to-day life to perpetrate that myth.

Take it for what it's worth.


And when a Jap bike breaks down/wears out, you throw it away...not worth fixing. Resale values out front should have told you. But if you do decide to fix it, take out a second mortgage.

If you manage to wear out a HD, you show up at the local Gypsy Joker clubhouse with a half-gram of meth, and it's fixed.

[T1B Nic]

Stats from someplace OTHER than any fucking propaganda by the Jap bike companies.

Uh-ohhhhh....

Dude -- you DO realize that Van IS a tool of Jap manufacturer propaganda, right?

That, and 23%APR financing is how he makes his living.

Yeah, I'm well aware.

Been doing this with him since SCIII when I was the only Harley rider on the board.

[Dinsdale]

He sees a post of mine concerning motorcycling. His dick gets hard. He snaps. He jumps in and tries to find a way to try to contradict me. He childishly calls me names.

Oh, and another question --


which one of us came charging into the thread to post negativity again?

Seems to me, that I was here first. You merely came in with your well-worn bullshit that you've posted a thousand times before.

You opened a thread with "Harley" in the title, you spouted your same old bullshit AFTER YOU SAW THAT THE MOST RECENT POST IN THE THREAD WAS FROM ME.

And you went to the trouble of reading the thread, and then responded "yawn." Clever shit, right there.

When you have to resort to LIES to make your point...it probably wasn't much of a point.


YOU showed up in this thread to rain on the Harley fans' parade. So kindly shut the fuck up with trying to spin it as something other than that. Your accusations of what you're basically implying is stalking fall pretty fucking short of the mark when YOU followed the Harley fans into a thread, and spewed the same crap you have time and time again.


But I understand -- you're a fucking motorcycle salesman. Fucking used car dealers laugh at how sleazy you are. Honesty isn't in your nature, otherwise you wouldn't do what you do.

Save it for the bottom feeders here who don't see the transparency of your act.

[Van]

T1B Nic, I'm not spouting "pro Jap" or "anti Harley" propaganda...

I'm a motorcycle dealer. As such, I'm constantly sent all sorts of industry data, including NADA and other industry reports detailing warranty % claims, recall data, Customer Satisfaction Indexes and the like...

I also work with motorcycle parts and service people every day, including H-D parts and service people.

In terms of mechanical rates of incident per 1000 units sold among major manufacturers H-D is ahead of only one other name plate...Buell. Moreover, the chasm between their ranking at the bottom and the next lowest competitor is a mile wide.

At the very top, by a wide margin, is Honda. Nobody's even close to Honda in terms of having the fewest mechanical issues per 1000 units, the fewest factory recalls, warranty claims and the highest overall CSI.

Below Honda you have Yamaha and Suzuki, running fairly even, with both companies being comfortably ahead of Kawasaki.

Next up you'll usually see BMW, Aprilia and Triumph, but Triumph of late has been getting better and better while BMW's scores have been decreasing due to all the new and very high tech products they've introduced in the last five years. Lotta new model bugs they keep having to work out, and many of 'em are very expensive due to all the secondary motors and all the extensive electronics that are part and parcel of the latest line of BMWs

Ducati is usually next, right alongside Victory Motorcycles (the motorcycle division of Polaris...)

You cite a perfect example of what we in the industry all know to be true. A Harley guy such as yourself thinks it's something worth bragging about when your bike makes it to 40K miles without the need for any major top end work.

Care to recall for me all the air cooled/pushrod Harleys you've seen that turned over an odo before needing a new top end?

A Honda guy with a Harley sized motor fully expects his bike to be able to go a quarter million miles on the same motor. In the case of the STs and the GoldWings million mile examples aren't uncommon.

There are no such examples in Harley Land. It is rare indeed to ever see a Harley turn over its odo and it's nearly impossible to find one that managed this feat without first requiring major work on the top end.

Meanwhile, even despite the fragility of his engine and even despite the stress that antiquated motor places on all the ancillary components all over the bike Harley Buyer is also getting nowhere near the engine performance that's taken for granted by buyers of most every other brand.

A Honda CBR600 will easily last five times longer than a 1500cc Harley, even while making nearly twice the hp.

A Honda VTX1800 or M109R Suzuki makes far more torque than any Harley, at any rpm, anywhere on the dynograph curve, and either bike will also last five times longer than any air cooled/pushrod H-D or Buell.

Air cooled pushrod motors designed in 1957 and barely improved since then are simply no match for modern engineering. Anything that needs to perform at a high level and do so for a long time simply has to have internal cooling to regulate the temparture. It doesn't matter whether it's a bike, your car or even you...liquid cooling is a must for longevity and performance.

In the absence of liquid cooling you have to dumb down the motor to allow for heat expansion. You have to build an intentionally loose motor with low compression.

BMW gets away with using air cooled twins by going with severely understressed opposed twins that don't vibrate nearly as much as H-D's traditional 45 degree twin. Also, BMW's air cooled twins require an awful lot of maintenance.

They do last a long time though; much longer than any H-D or Buell. The difference though is that while a BMW will ultimately last forever, like a Honda, they won't do so with a Honda's minimum maintenance requirements or a Honda's much higher level of performance.

H-D? Buell? They have none of the above. The require a lot of maintenance. They don't last very long. They aren't nearly as reliable overall, all over the bike. They don't perform...at all.

For all that, hey, at least you got to pay twice as much.

Harsh as this is, this isn't propaganda. It's cold hard fact that's supported by voluminous dry industry data and countless dyno charts.

[Van]

Oh and btw --

WHICH production bike was the first to use inverted forks again, Vannar?

http://www.motorbike-search-engine.co.uk/buell.html


If Buell is so behind-the-times, why does every single Jap manufacturer copy everything he does?

Like inverted forks, for instance.

"Production bike"

Certainly not a Buell. Low volume prototype race bikes are not production bikes. By the time Buell finally became a real mainstream manufacturer inverted forks were already all over the place.

"If Buell is so behind-the-times, why does every single Jap manufacturer copy everything he does?"

That's patently absurd. There's nothing on a Honda or on any MotoGP bike that bares even the slightest resemblance to anything that Erik Buell ever first managed on any regular production Buell.

Buells are absolutely behind the times, as evidenced by the obvious fact that they're wholly uncompetitive by any yardstick of performance imaginable. Buell is quite simply incapable of racing and competing against Japan, Inc...or even Italy, Inc, for that matter.

In racing circles any and all attempts by Buell have been flat out embarrassing. In fact, I encourage you to look into their results this season in AMA Formula Xtreme, where the AMA is inexplicably allowing Buell to run an illegal prototype bike with a motor capacity that's more than twice the size of the Japanese Fours. Even with an obvious "cheater" bike Buell still can't manage to even circulate around the track long enough to finish a race. Never mind being competitive here, no, we're talking simply making it to the end of the race without blowing up. Can't do it...

It's even worse for them out in the real world, where a Suzuki GSX-R or a Ducati 999 (hell, even a 599cc GSX-R600 or a 675cc Triumph triple) will simply destroy much larger engine capacity Buells.

[Van]

Btw, Dins, were you ever going to get back to me on that thing of yours about how Harleys have been using liquid cooling on their Big Twins for at least four years now, independent of the V-Rod family?

Just gonna gloss over that one too, eh??

Fucking poser.

[Van]

He sees a post of mine concerning motorcycling. His dick gets hard. He snaps. He jumps in and tries to find a way to try to contradict me. He childishly calls me names.

Oh, and another question --


which one of us came charging into the thread to post negativity again?

Seems to me, that I was here first. You merely came in with your well-worn bullshit that you've posted a thousand times before.

You opened a thread with "Harley" in the title, you spouted your same old bullshit AFTER YOU SAW THAT THE MOST RECENT POST IN THE THREAD WAS FROM ME.

And you went to the trouble of reading the thread, and then responded "yawn." Clever shit, right there.

When you have to resort to LIES to make your point...it probably wasn't much of a point.


YOU showed up in this thread to rain on the Harley fans' parade. So kindly shut the fuck up with trying to spin it as something other than that. Your accusations of what you're basically implying is stalking fall pretty fucking short of the mark when YOU followed the Harley fans into a thread, and spewed the same crap you have time and time again.


But I understand -- you're a fucking motorcycle salesman. Fucking used car dealers laugh at how sleazy you are. Honesty isn't in your nature, otherwise you wouldn't do what you do.

Save it for the bottom feeders here who don't see the transparency of your act.

Yes, I saw a thread about a new Harley motor.

I read the article. I understood what I read in the article, which you obviously didn't.

I read the article, hoping it'd describe something newsworthy, ie, a modern liquid cooled motor.

It didn't. It described nothing new, other than a larger displacement and the addition of a sixth gear.

I then posted my feelings on this bit of "news", clearly stating that I won't be the least bit impressed with them until they give their Big Twins some modern engineering.

Never mentioned you. Didn't even address you. Believe it or not, YOU didn't matter. YOU weren't the topic.

You then went on the attack against me, including your usual name calling, at which point you exposed not just your ignorance of motorcycling in general, but even of what was written in the actual article. You then attempted to dig yourself out but you only managed to make things worse for yourself by unintentionally admitting that you don't even know one family of Harley from another...

Then you really jumped the shark and starting trying to prop up Buell.

I dutifully ruined you, which, given your obvious lack of knowledge in this discussion, wasn't the least bit difficult.

You then went to your usual spin card, and now you're even trotting out the "liar!" card. Of course I haven't lied about anything here, and you've simply once again proven yourself to be a no nothing contrarian blowhard, so it must be a Friday...

[Dinsdale]

Gee Van...did you have to "go back to the office and check with the sales manager" before you posted that? Was he "in a good mood today," and let you make that post?


Are you going to "show me the factory invoice" from that post?


Oh, and btw-you might want to look into what the phrase "jump the shark" means before you try to use it again. After checking with your sales manager for a second time, I think you'll find that it doesn't mean what you think it does, and has nothing to do with tangents or nonsequiturs(not that there was one, but that's what you're trying to sell...only after "checking with your manager," of course).


Keep peddling that extended warranty, Flabsteak Herder.


(Oh and BTW, the only bike I've ever had much in the way of mechanical problems with was a brand new Honda, and the dealer refused to fix it under warranty).


But that free $100 helmet that comes with the 29%APR is NAILS!!!!! Throw in a fannypack, and you've got yourself a deal!

[Dinsdale]

But as a consolation(at least I'd need some consoling if I realized I'd spent my life taking advantage of people for profit), the humor of this:

no nothing contrarian

wasn't lost on me. Quite Indexian.

[T1B Nic]

T1B Nic, I'm not spouting "pro Jap" or "anti Harley" propaganda...

I'm a motorcycle dealer. As such, I'm constantly sent all sorts of industry data, including NADA and other industry reports detailing warranty % claims, recall data, Customer Satisfaction Indexes and the like...

I also work with motorcycle parts and service people every day, including H-D parts and service people.

In terms of mechanical rates of incident per 1000 units sold among major manufacturers H-D is ahead of only one other name plate...Buell. Moreover, the chasm between their ranking at the bottom and the next lowest competitor is a mile wide.

How do they keep count? Parts bought? Harley riders OFTEN swap parts that are not broken. ALL kinds of parts.

You cite a perfect example of what we in the industry all know to be true. A Harley guy such as yourself thinks it's something worth bragging about when your bike makes it to 40K miles without the need for any major top end work.

Care to recall for me all the air cooled/pushrod Harleys you've seen that turned over an odo before needing a new top end?

I've personally had a Heritage Softail Classic with 75K on the clock when I traded it in. NO MAJOR RE-WORK DONE.

Ya know what dipshit, I'm willing to wager BIG those ricers ya see on the street have less than 2K miles per year.

BTW, I trade in my car when it starts getting around 50K on it as well.

A Honda guy with a Harley sized motor fully expects his bike to be able to go a quarter million miles on the same motor. In the case of the STs and the GoldWings million mile examples aren't uncommon.

There are no such examples in Harley Land. It is rare indeed to ever see a Harley turn over its odo and it's nearly impossible to find one that managed this feat without first requiring major work on the top end.

Most Harley guys trade a bike in before they get too many miles.

That's a fact. Only because of tards like you saying they aren't good for many miles. I'm not going into this same arguement I have with you every nine months or so.

[Dinsdale]

I've personally had a Heritage Softail Classic with 75K on the clock when I traded it in.

Well, Mr Nic, the problem is that Harleys aren't very reliable, and there isn't much of a market for used ones, so they don't hold their value very well.

But, I'll go upstairs and check with my sales manager...he's been in a good mood today, so he might offer you $500 for it, which would be a REEEEAL good deal for you.

I might even be able to get him to throw in one of these cool keychains...but don't hold your breath.

Oh, and would you like fries with that?

Sin,
Van

[Van]

But as a consolation(at least I'd need some consoling if I realized I'd spent my life taking advantage of people for profit), the humor of this:

no nothing contrarian

wasn't lost on me. Quite Indexian.

Yep, that one sucked.

Man though, are you reaching for straws now or what!! LOL!!

Typo Smack, from you?

Attacking my job, as a means of spinning away from all the perfectly relevant material fucks up you've commited in this thread??

Bwaaaa.

Btw, I'm still waiting on that Harley/Big Twin liquid cooled motor info. While you're scrambling there let's also see those dyno charts that show any Harley making more power "under the curve" (man, I laughed at that one) than something like an M109R Suzuki or the largest Hondas, much less a Triumph Rocket III.

How 'bout a ZX-14R or a 'Busa, vs a sweet little 60 rwhp/75 lbs of torque Big Twin Harley? Wanna compare dyno charts "under the curve" grunt there too, skippy?

Slice it anyway you want, poser. Harleys make no power, anywhere. Got that?

Anywhere! They're anemic...everywhere!

What little power they do make, sure, they make it down low on the tach, but they'll still get completely stomped on low down torque by too many bikes to mention, most all of which will also kill 'em on HP, ride quality, braking, handling, reliability and durability.

But hey, YOU'RE cool, 'cause you're on the internet and dammit, you say so.

[Dinsdale]

Attacking my job

Yeah...but I checked with my manager first...he was in a good mood today.

[Van]

How do they keep count? Parts bought? Harley riders OFTEN swap parts that are not broken. ALL kinds of parts.

Warranty claims. Recalls. Actual NADA numbers.

We're not talking vanity driven parts swaps here. Obviously, Sport Bike Squid is also constantly swapping out perfectly good stock parts for vanity purchases, same as Harley Guy.

We're talking reported mechanical break downs submitted to the manufacturer for repair/warranty/recall work.

You want to talk about your personal experiences with your Harleys. That's fine. I have over 200K miles on "Jap" bikes and every single one of those bikes had motors with higher compression than any Harley. All of 'em had higher performance per CC...

I'm talking across the board industry data here, not anecdotal evidence. The data I'm talking about is sent to our Harley store too, as well as to all stores covering all brands. It's non affiliated data.

Purely on the anecdotal level though, I've had countless people come in and try to get out of their Harleys because they're sick of their bikes always being in the shop. Nobody even begins to try to say that their bikes perform like a modern bike. No, that's not the issue. Going in, they know that much. They don't even expect modern performance.

Their issue is with the unreliability of their bikes.

Conversely, again on the anecdotal level, go talk to any Harley dealer. For all those customers perusing his floor ask him how many of those people are there to buy a Harley or Buell because they've simply become fed up with their Honda always being in the shop...

While I have no doubt such a thing does occur every blue moon I think we both know that the first scenario is far more the norm than the second.

[T1B Nic]

Slice it anyway you want, poser. Harleys make no power, anywhere. Got that?

Anywhere! They're anemic...everywhere!

http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/con ... rdid=43614

World's Fastest Motorcycle. A Harley Davidson.

How stupid will your reply be? I'm willing to say, pretty fucking stupid.

[Van]

Attacking my job

Yeah...but I checked with my manager first...he was in a good mood today.

Actually I didn't even go in today, thus the lengthier posts.

[Van]

Slice it anyway you want, poser. Harleys make no power, anywhere. Got that?

Anywhere! They're anemic...everywhere!

http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/con ... rdid=43614

World's Fastest Motorcycle. A Harley Davidson.

How stupid will your reply be? I'm willing to say, pretty fucking stupid.

Okay, try sauntering down to your local Harley dealer to buy one of those. Make sure though before you leave that they spell out the specifics of your factory warranty...

Christ...

We're talking stock regular production bikes here, nitwit.

[Dinsdale]

We're talking reported mechanical break downs submitted to the manufacturer for repair/warranty/recall work.

And here's some anecdotal evidence -- Honda keeps those warranty claims down by not honoring their warranty...firsthand experience.

More to the story than meets-the-eye.

[T1B Nic]

You want to talk about your personal experiences with your Harleys. That's fine. I have over 200K miles on "Jap" bikes and every single one of those bikes had motors with higher compression than any Harley. All of 'em had higher performance per CC...

I've many as well. No need to toss out numbers for a *bigger dick contest*.

Just say with you saying 200K, you wouldn't snub your nose at my numbers. I've never had a major problem with any of my sleds.

From the Garbage Barge (Full dress with a COUPLE lights) down to the Sporty I bought in high school, and rode to Daytona & back. (4K+ miles) <<~~EDIT: In 7 days I put over 5K on it.

You will never convince me that a Harley can't do the miles, as I've done them myself.