The immigrant protesters should get real

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Mister Bushice
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The immigrant protesters should get real

Post by Mister Bushice »

They don't represent immigrants, they represent illegal mexicans. I don't think singing "we shall overcome" in Spanish represents immigranst as a whole. The big question is, will all these protests have any effect?

This is really just part of the whole silent invasion. This comment says it all: " she laughed and said: "Why? They kick us out, we're coming back tomorrow."

Comparing them to the civil rights movement in the 1960's is bullshit. and this guy: "give them a legal channel to get here."

HELLO!!! There is a legal channel, and it isn't a pipe culvert under the border fence.

Really, I hope that congress makes a statement here when they come back. Mexicans have no more rights than anyone else so they should all follow the same rules and laws that people from countries on other continents have no choice but to follow.
U.S. Immigrants Rally by the Thousands

By GIOVANNA DELL'ORTO, Associated Press Writer 51 minutes ago

ATLANTA - Tens of thousands of immigrants spilled into the streets of Atlanta and other cities across the country Monday in a national day of action billed as a "campaign for immigrants' dignity."

In North Carolina and Dallas, immigrant groups called for an economic boycott to show their financial impact. In Pittsburgh and other cities, protesters gathered outside lawmakers' offices to make their voices heard as Congress considers immigration reforms. At the Mississippi Capitol, they sang "We Shall Overcome" in Spanish.

Atlanta police estimated at least 50,000 people, many in white T-shirts and waving American flags, joined a two-mile march from a largely immigrant neighborhood Monday morning.

The Rev. James Orange from the Georgia Coalition for the People's Agenda compared the march to civil rights demonstrations led by the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. and farm-labor organizer Caesar Chavez.

"People of the world, we have come to say this is our moment," Orange said.

The Georgia protesters had two targets: congress members weighing immigration reform and state legislation now awaiting Gov. Sonny Perdue's signature that would require adults seeking many state-administered benefits to prove they are in the U.S. legally.

Nineth Castillo, a 26-year-old waitress from Guatemala who joined the Atlanta march, said she has lived in the United States for 11 years "without a scrap of paper."

Asked whether she was afraid to parade her undocumented status in front of a massive police presence, she laughed and said: "Why? They kick us out, we're coming back tomorrow."

Hundreds of Latinos in North Carolina were called on to skip work or boycott all purchases Monday to demonstrate the financial impact of the Latino community on area businesses.

"We're hoping that employers stop to consider what this is all about," organizer Adriana Galvez said. "That if you need people here to do the work, to buy, then give them a legal channel to get here."

Cruz Luna, his wife and their four children all wore T-shirts reading "God Bless America" at a demonstration in Pensacola, Fla. The two oldest children — ages 8 and 9 — were born in Mexico and are in the U.S. illegally; their younger siblings, ages 4 and 8 months are U.S. citizens.

"We want to send a strong message today, a message that we want the laws to be fair," Luna said.

At a demonstration in Phoenix, Miguel Penate, a fast-food restaurant manager who moved from
El Salvador six years ago, said being in the country illegally was his only option.

"There's no way to come legally over here," said Penate, 25. "If there was, do you think people would like to be in the desert risking their lives?"

Several thousand people demonstrated in Philadelphia, including Inocente Gonzalez, 19, an illegal immigrant from Oaxaca, Mexico, who in high school now and dreams of becoming a doctor.

"I want to stay here to continue with my studies," Gonzalez said, wearing a sombrero and Mexican flag. "We have to stay here because this country needs us."

In Pittsburgh, a small group of mostly Hispanic and African immigrants marched to U.S. Sen. Arlen Specter (news, bio, voting record)'s office.

"This country was built by immigrants, Pittsburgh in particular," said Yinka Aganga Williams, 54, who came from Nigeria six years ago. "This is supposed to be a land of freedom, that's why they came."

In the Midwest, an estimated 3,000 people demonstrated in Garden City, Kan., a farming community in the southwest corner of the state that counts fewer than 30,000 residents. Several hundred turned out in South Bend, Ind., and in Lexington, Ky., where they waved signs that read: "We were all immigrants once," and "We are not terrorists."

The demonstrations were mostly peaceful, though in Portland, Maine, one demonstrator clashed with a small group of counter-demonstrators. One of three people carrying signs saying illegal immigrants have no rights was hit in the head and taken away by ambulance.

An event in Harrisburg, Pa., drew a handful of hecklers.

"Go to jail!" shouted William Hazzard, 58, a retired school custodian from Harrisburg. "I'm from Germany and I had to give up my rights as a German citizen. I had to speak English."

Raymond Marks, 47, an apartment complex service manager, held an upside-down American flag as a sign of distress.

"These people are expecting me to give them rights they don't deserve," he said.

Monday's demonstrations followed a weekend of rallies in 10 states that drew up to 500,000 people in Dallas, 50,000 in San Diego, and 20,000 in Salt Lake City. Dozens of rallies and student walkouts, many organized by Spanish-language radio DJ's, have been held in cities from Los Angeles to Chicago to New York over the past two weeks.

Protesters have been urging Congress, whose immigration reform efforts stalled last week, to help the estimated 11 million illegal immigrants settle here legally.

Xavier Suarez, 46, an Ecuadorean immigrant with U.S. citizenship, said others deserve the same right to live and work in America, pay taxes and contribute to society,

"America is a country of dreams. These people have dreams," said Suarez, who demonstrated in Lake Worth, Fla. "They have family back home in their countries and they've been separated for many years. It's only fair that they are allowed to be together again here, and to help keep this country growing."
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Post by Dinsdale »

mvscal wrote:
Electrify the border.
Mark down today's date as the day we saw the Kinder, Gentler mvscal.

I was kinda thinking Phalanx guns gaurding the border. Obey American Law, and it won't be a problem. Invade our country with criminal intent, and ventilation will no longer be a problem. Invading the US border with the sole intent to engage in criminal activity is a borderline act-of-war. It should be treated as such.
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Post by Mikey »

It's pretty funny (or not) that these people keep invoking the name and memory of Cesar Chavez.

Chavez led a movement whose goal was to improve the conditions of migrant farm workers. The UFW was NOT composed of illegal immigrants, and from what I've heard Chavez was very much against illegal immigration.
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Post by Mister Bushice »

Yeah. The ACLU is gonna wrap their arms around THAT proposal.

The thing that gets me is how self serving and arrogant they all are. Bugs the shit out of me they think they are entitled.
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Post by Dinsdale »

mvscal wrote:
Dinsdale wrote:I was kinda thinking Phalanx guns gaurding the border.
That's too violent and aggressive. I was thinking more of a load up the cooler and lawn chairs and head down to the border and watch the big bug zapper. It could be one of those memorable family bonding outtings.

~BzzzzzZAPPPP~

"Oh, didja see that one, Timmy? Quick, here comes another one."
OK. I take back my statements.

I see you working.

And there you go -- it'll even create jobs, and be good for the economy -- we could license official beer/snack vendors at the spectator areas.

And I just can't stop being offended at the very idea of people in other countries demanding "rights" as Americans. I'm just not understanding this concept.

And nevermind that these people are soooo concerned about America that they make no effort to learn the Official Language, instead they demand that the American Taxpayer takes on extra expense to cater to their refusal to be American. I know quite a few Ukranian immigrants, and every last one of them took English classes the day they got here, or close to -- because they see it as an honor to be allowed into this country to make a better life for themselves and their families, and spend every day in appreciation that the people of America saw it in their hearts to give them a chance in the Land Of Opportunity.


And anyone who thinks that "they do the work other people won't -- we need these people" obviously were absent the day "supply and demand" was discussed in their high school economic class, and those people should probably shut up. This whole current immigration issue would tie-in quite nicely with a welfare-reform effort, but our government is too broken right now to even mention the obvious issue here.
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Post by ChargerMike »

Mr Bushice wrote:Bugs the shit out of me they think they are entitled.
...so now we have 2 ethnic groups who think they are entitled. Good news for the Dem's.
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Post by Mikey »

Make that three 'cause I KNOW I'm entitled.

:wink:
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Post by SunCoastSooner »

I was going to post something about thisd earlier today but before I submitted it I pulled the plug. Just too damn an emotional issue for me which would have been wrapped around a lot of personal experience in the things they are demmanding.

To summerize what I was going to post...

I am [expletive] livid that these bastards have the [expletive] audacity to demmand things such as public schooling, welfare, government bennifits, and most of all medical care at our expense when hard working, legal, American citizens who haven't committed a crime being here can't get most of these things.

As far as I am concerned La Migra should be at every one of these [expletive] "ralleys" with [expletive] Paddy wagons.
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Post by Mister Bushice »

Come on now. That'll never happen. You know as well as the rest of us that Congress will bend over and take a high hard one, and either give them all amnesty or just do nothing, which is essentially the same thing as amnesty since enforcement is a joke.

I don't understand that if there is such strong sentiment about it here and with everyone I speak to, why nothing will be done about it.
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Post by Dinsdale »

Werd.

I'll bet my last buck that if Muslims planned rallies in support of Al Qaeda in public squares, we'd be all up in that shit.

But here we have yet another criminal organization mobilizing themselves, and have even gone to the trouble to tell everyone that they are proudly in disobidience of American law, yet nothing is being done.

Thanks, neocons. If the people of this country continue to not hold government officials accountable for their actions, we're in big fucking trouble.

On this issue, I think it's perfectly fucking clear that the People have spoken. Yet where are our representatives? They don't seem to be "representing" much at the moment. In fact, they seem to be doing the OPPOSITE of what 95% of their constituents want. Seems like the only people being "represented" are the corporate-types that lined the campaign coffers of their pet "representative."

When a representative democracy stops being concerned with who is supposed to be "represented" think, we've got issues.

Our govenment has been selling the People down the river for WAY too long now, and this issue is taking the whole problem over the top.

The People have spoken...end of fucking story. And since the illegals can't vote, why are Congress so opposed to doing the People's will?

Because certain large financial interests make the rules, not the People.

Our new motto: Of The Aristocratic Interest, By The Aristocratic Interest, For The Aristocratic Interest.

Fucking tards. How many times does the last name Bush have to be involved in massive scam perpetrated against the American People before the idea might fucking dawn on you that they might not have YOUR best interests in mind? I mean really, fuckwads -- that namer has been involved in government financial scandals for almost 100 years now...yet instead of laughing and calling for an FBI investigation when they campaign for office, you actually entertain the idea of voting for them. "Ponderous" isn't a strong enough word for your idiocy.

And I use the Bush Cartel as an example, because they're the most obvious ones. But, they are FAR from the only ones. The name Gore isn't associated with the better interest of the People, either. Walton -- that's a really fucking bad one too...so I'll assume you'll be voting for them soon, too?

You tards amaze me. You reap what you sow. And the People, as a whole, have sown a whole buncha fucking stupid in recent decades.

And until you demand better, both of your officials and yourselves, the stupid isn't getting any better, any time soon.

So enjoy it....or maybe pick up your phone and tell your congressperson that they will be invited to their own hanging in Town Square if they don't do their job. There's a thought....

Unless you actually think a majority of your friends and neighbors in your congressional district believe it's a good idea to grant amnesty to every Tom, Dick, and Jose who breaks American law.
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Post by Dr_Phibes »

Just pretend that they're jews exercising their inalienable 'right of getting their money returned' - as stated in the mystical book of the 'Tal-miltonfreid-mud'. <----- see what I did there?
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Post by Shlomart Ben Yisrael »

^^^^^^^

Phibes = money
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Post by Dr_Phibes »

Cheers, I thought that was clever.

I've got a Gene Pitney one aswell - I'll be appearing in the music forum later this evening.
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Post by War Wagon »

Dinsdale wrote: On this issue, I think it's perfectly fucking clear that the People have spoken. Yet where are our representatives? They don't seem to be "representing" much at the moment. In fact, they seem to be doing the OPPOSITE of what 95% of their constituents want.
You got's some numbers to back that up? I doubt it. You're way out in left field and full of shit, as usual.

I've seen polls where a majority of Americans think illegal immigrants should be granted an opportunity to become legal under certain conditions.

Those conditions being, among others:

1. Paying a $5,000.00 fine.
2. Paying all back taxes.
3. Taking English language classes.
4. Have no criminal record.

Basically, the conditions set forth in the original Senate bill that got stonewalled by partisan bickering.

If they can meet these basic conditions, they might be eligible to become citizens after 11 more years.
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Post by Mister Bushice »

Ok, negotiatorwagon,

So how do you deal with those illegals who :

1. Can't Pay the $5,000.00 fine.
2. Can't Pay all back taxes.
3. Won't/Don't take English language classes.


I left off # 4 because I think the majority of illegals aren't criminals, however those who are have ZERO rights and #1 to 3 are not applicable for them. Ship them back to vicente with a no return address label on them.

So WW, how DO You deal with the less than perfect group? what consequences are there for failing 1,2, or all three of the above ideals?

Please to be explaining this with the caveat that the perfect solution outlined by the senate doesn't allow for the expected problems of non compliance.
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Post by SunCoastSooner »

War Wagon wrote:
Dinsdale wrote: On this issue, I think it's perfectly fucking clear that the People have spoken. Yet where are our representatives? They don't seem to be "representing" much at the moment. In fact, they seem to be doing the OPPOSITE of what 95% of their constituents want.
You got's some numbers to back that up? I doubt it. You're way out in left field and full of shit, as usual.

I've seen polls where a majority of Americans think illegal immigrants should be granted an opportunity to become legal under certain conditions.

Those conditions being, among others:

1. Paying a $5,000.00 fine.
2. Paying all back taxes.
3. Taking English language classes.
4. Have no criminal record.

Basically, the conditions set forth in the original Senate bill that got stonewalled by partisan bickering.

If they can meet these basic conditions, they might be eligible to become citizens after 11 more years.
Sounds like you just created 20,000 to 30,000 new pencil pushing bureaucratic jobs. Thanks but no thanks. Just send them the hell home and let them try and comne back legally.
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Post by ChargerMike »

I swear I didn't steal Bushy's password...honest!
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Post by Dinsdale »

War Wagon wrote:I've seen polls where a majority of Americans think illegal immigrants should be granted an opportunity to become legal under certain conditions.

Those conditions being, among others:

1. Paying a $5,000.00 fine.
2. Paying all back taxes.
3. Taking English language classes.
4. Have no criminal record.

OK. So we agree. Send them all back. We don't need to skim off the criminal element of another society and bring them here en masse. Because that would be dumb.
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Post by War Wagon »

Mister Bushice wrote:Ok, negotiatorwagon,

So how do you deal with those illegals who :

1. Can't Pay the $5,000.00 fine.
2. Can't Pay all back taxes.
Ever hear of garnishing wages? Most can't or won't be able to pay it all upfront, but over say, a five year period, this could be taken care of. I'm sure most would readily jump at the chance if it helped their long term goal of becoming legalized and perhaps even citizen's.

3. Won't/Don't take English language classes.
If they'd agree to pay the cash for 1 and 2, then I damn sure guarantee that 3 is a given.
I left off # 4 because I think the majority of illegals aren't criminals...
Well, isn't that mighty white of you...

You are correct, despite Din's assertions to the contrary.
So WW, how DO You deal with the less than perfect group? what consequences are there for failing 1,2, or all three of the above ideals?
Probably more consequences than are occurring now with those who are flying under the radar.

Remember, they'd have to register for this opportunity. Call it amnesty if you wish. Basically out themselves, and take it on faith that it eventually works out for the best.
Please to be explaining this with the caveat that the perfect solution outlined by the senate doesn't allow for the expected problems of non compliance.
There is no perfect solution. Not even close, else this problem would not have festered for so long and eventually boiled to the surface like it has now.

My belief is that the proposed Senate bill is just the very first baby step in trying to address the problem in a sane, logical, and humane way.

Much trial and error will have to occur before it can be tweaked into resembling something even close to a workable process.

But at least it's a step in the right direction.
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Post by War Wagon »

SunCoastSooner wrote: Sounds like you just created 20,000 to 30,000 new pencil pushing bureaucratic jobs. Thanks but no thanks. Just send them the hell home and let them try and comne back legally.
As oppossed to creating 20,000 to 30,000 new LE officers to deal with the 11,000,000 to 12,000,000 illegals whom the HoR bill would instantly declare as felons?

I'll take the pencil pushers.

They do less damage.
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Post by Mister Bushice »

War Wagon wrote:
Mister Bushice wrote:Ok, negotiatorwagon,

So how do you deal with those illegals who :

1. Can't Pay the $5,000.00 fine.
2. Can't Pay all back taxes.
Ever hear of garnishing wages?
Oh yeah. I'll bet those living slightly above the poverty line will be lining up to have their wages garnished.

You don't really think these people will voluntarily step up just to become indebted to the US? For some, we might be talking 10's of thousands of dollars in back taxes.

Most can't or won't be able to pay it all upfront, but over say, a five year period, this could be taken care of. I'm sure most would readily jump at the chance if it helped their long term goal of becoming legalized and perhaps even citizen's.
You're kidding, right? Some guy who owes $25,000 is going to jump at the chance?
3. Won't/Don't take English language classes.
If they'd agree to pay the cash for 1 and 2, then I damn sure guarantee that 3 is a given.
You need to spend some time in central California. Half the ag cities there don't even have signage in English, and when they tried to make English as the sole language here in Cali, there were lawsuits flying and it failed.

Unlike most other Cultures, Mexicans aren't proud or in many cases, even interested in Learning English. If you lived out here you would know this for a fact. You can go into Korea town, talk to filipino, German, italian immigrants, and they all understand and try to speak English. Not so for Mexicans. Easily 70% of the stores I go into in Cent Cali who have Mexican employees or owners don't speak or understand english, and they make no attempt to force their kids to learn. The kids learn it at school.
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Post by War Wagon »

Dinsdale wrote: OK. So we agree. Send them all back. We don't need to skim off the criminal element of another society and bring them here en masse. Because that would be dumb.
Yes, they are here illegally, and no, we don't agree.

They are no more a criminal than somebody who run's a red light at an intersection with no other traffic being present.

Sending them all back would be impossible Dins, and I'm sure you really, really, know this.

That isn't an option.
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Post by Mister Bushice »

War Wagon wrote:
Dinsdale wrote: OK. So we agree. Send them all back. We don't need to skim off the criminal element of another society and bring them here en masse. Because that would be dumb.
Yes, they are here illegally, and no, we don't agree.

They are no more a criminal than somebody who run's a red light at an intersection with no other traffic being present.

Sending them all back would be impossible Dins, and I'm sure you really, really, know this.

That isn't an option.
Then what about all of those people who are waiting to come here who are going through the system legally? They get punished by having to wait years to come here, sometimes separated from family members for all that time, and you propose that the ones who sneak in are rewarded?
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Post by War Wagon »

Mister Bushice wrote: Then what about all of those people who are waiting to come here who are going through the system legally? They get punished by having to wait years to come here, sometimes separated from family members for all that time, and you propose that the ones who sneak in are rewarded?
The Senate bill stipulates that they have to return to Mexico first if they've been here less than 5 years and then get in line.

For those who've managed to survive here for 5 years or more, more power to them for getting over.

You have to break some eggshells to make an omelet.
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Post by War Wagon »

mvscal wrote:
War Wagon wrote:Sending them all back would be impossible Dins,
Moving 11 million people a couple hundred miles south is by no means an impossible task.
I didn't say it was impossible, but it would definitely be a logistical nightmare, cost billions of dollars, and at the end of the day, be a totally wasted effort.
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Post by Mister Bushice »

It was 2 years, not 5 years, and they shelved that bill.

The 5 year ones only had to go to the border, register and then come right back in.

At the present time, there is nothing on the table.

And the illegals are protesting that their "rights" are being trampled on. Because they've broken the law, they don't have many rights.
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War Wagon wrote:being as how I've got "stupid" draped all over, I'm not really sure.
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Post by War Wagon »

Mister Bushice wrote:It was 2 years, not 5 years, and they shelved that bill.
Only temporarily, most sane and concerned folks are hoping.
The 5 year ones only had to go to the border, register and then come right back in.
I stand corrected, but that still seems like a reasonable idea.
And the illegals are protesting that their "rights" are being trampled on.
Not all who are protesting are illegal. I have no way of measuring this, but I doubt even 1/3 are illegal. Just call it a gut feel.
Because they've broken the law, they don't have many rights.
Certainly, if they are declared as being felons, then they don't have any rights. That's why I'm dead set against the House bill.

These are not parasites were talking about, and you know it.

There are many more blights on our society much worse, and this you (and Dins and mv) know also.
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Post by War Wagon »

mvscal wrote: The effort would only be wasted if we did nothing to secure the border which should be step number one in any proposed immigration bill.
Agreed.

As soon as you figure out a reasonable way of doing this, you be sure and let your elected representatives and then me know.

In the meantime, please dispense with the Dinsinator approach, because that isn't going to fly.
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Post by Mister Bushice »

War Wagon wrote:
These are not parasites were talking about, and you know it.
An Estimated 4% or less ( GAO Numbers) of illegals file tax returns. That's 350,000 out of 11 million.

20 plus hospitals and clinics have been forced to close in LA county alone over the last 7 years due to significant financial loss caused by having to provide medical care to undocumented individuals who had no money and no insurance.

Parasites? 96% of them are that.
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War Wagon
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Post by War Wagon »

Just because they don't file tax returns, doesn't mean they don't pay taxes.
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Mister Bushice
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Post by Mister Bushice »

Oh yeah. People who snuck in here illegally are still honest enough to pay their taxes. :roll:

Ever see how many undocumented workers stand out side of every home depot looking for work? They get paid in cash.
If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator." —GWB Washington, D.C., Dec. 19, 2000
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War Wagon wrote:being as how I've got "stupid" draped all over, I'm not really sure.
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War Wagon
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Post by War Wagon »

They come in here with phony ID's and obtain phony SS'#s and birth certificates to obtain job's at legit companies that don't pay under the table and are taxed just the same as if they were legal.

They pay sales taxes and property taxes as well.

Your ignorance is glaring.
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Diego in Seattle
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Post by Diego in Seattle »

War Wagon wrote:They come in here with phony ID's and obtain phony SS'#s and birth certificates to obtain job's at legit companies that don't pay under the table and are taxed just the same as if they were legal.

They pay sales taxes and property taxes as well.

Your ignorance is glaring.
Wrong.
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War Wagon
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Post by War Wagon »

Diego in Seattle wrote: Wrong.
Weel, since you've obviously done some research or just have a gut feeling, perhaps you could enlighten me?

Otherwise, you'll be filed as another loudmouth dumbfuck who doesn't know what he's talking about.

There's an abundance of those about, so you joining these ranks won't come as a surprise.
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Mister Bushice
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Post by Mister Bushice »

Dude, You are so far off. Undocumented workers don't own real estate, they don't live at a high enough income level.

Try visiting some of the neighborhoods in the San Fernando valley here. Thousands of apartments with way too many people living in each unit, illegals who can't afford to own or buy here in cali because they don't speak english and have no formal education. They pay for a sleep space, and work under false names, use check cashing services to cash work checks, and have no taxes taken out of their checks.



You can continue this pie in the sky idealism but you're way off base. The majority of illegals aren't the saints you are portraying them to be. they suck out of the system and dont' give back. The excuse Bush is using is they do jobs "No american wants to do" That is also a bunch of crap. there is an unemployment rate here and a good portion of that could be filled by legit americans who are being displaced by illegals who will work for anything.

My wife worked at a nursing home when I first met her. The guy who was the cook there was an illegal, the owner turned a blind eye to his status because he worked for far less than a real cook would. He disappeared when inspections happened, he lived on a couch in the home of his legal cousins house, he sent all his paycheck money back to mexico, bragged to everyone of the big house he was building, and didn't pay any taxes.

Sure the owner was corrupt, but that's because there is no enforcement, no accountability, and if you think that is an exception to the rule, you are living in a fantasy world.
If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator." —GWB Washington, D.C., Dec. 19, 2000
Martyred wrote: Hang in there, Whitey. Smart people are on their way with dictionaries.
War Wagon wrote:being as how I've got "stupid" draped all over, I'm not really sure.
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War Wagon
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Post by War Wagon »

So?

I can tell you lot's of stories as well.

How does this change the issue?

While well written, it doesn't change the issue one bit.
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Post by poptart »

Bushice is right, Wagon.

While I don't think it's as bad here in H-town as it is in SoCal, I'm sure it's pretty damn close.

The situation here is BAD.

You could tell some stories too, certainly.

Yes, there are illegals who are upright, hard working, tax-paying, etc etc.

They are the exception though.

Again, if you lived here or in SoCal you'd be singing a different tune, and there is NO doubt about it.

They are sucking the government tit dry.

They are sucking you and I dry, my friend.

If I'm a LEGAL immigrant and I see the demonstrations these assholes are staging I am FUCKING PISSED, man.

The illegals have no rights as far as I'm concerned.



Deport and lock down the fucking border.
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Ang
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Post by Ang »

I agree that the whole situation is complicated...I get that.

I taught English language classes a couple of years ago in Tulsa and couldn't believe that about half the students were not from Mexico, but from other Latino countries..some from Peru, some from Venezuela. The difference was, that the folks from the more south Latino countries came in with a job from an International type company...and they were very comfortable about why there were here. The folks from Mexico were more shakey about where they came from.

All was good for lots of words and things to know about life and the grocery store and all...and then we got to the exercise when you need the language to fill out medical forms. It was an exercise we did because we figured folks needed those words to learn. What we didn't realize was how they would respond to it.

And the weird thing was, it was the day when they all started speaking English to each other.

We spoke English in our class times and demanded they speak to each other in English during those times...as rudimentary as they had, they had to do it. When we started the medical part...we did a an example sort of skit to show how to talk with medical folks...and after that had the students fill out their own medical charts...and when they did, they started talking with each other in English. It was so fucking amazing that I stood aside and just watched these folks who could so fluently speak in Spanish try to speak to each other in the simple English they had learned while in the class together.

I asked them why it made that much of a difference that they all spoke in English, and to a person they said that they knew they had to speak in English to get health care.

We had another exercise like that, had a story where some kids were lost at a fair and someone had to find directions. We had a map on the wall and a phone that was passed around...everyone knew where the kid was lost on the map and knew where the help was. Everyone could find the English to speak to get the kid home, and when they were giving hints to each other...it was in English.

Another surprise, but probably not to the guys here :) The Latino women had no problem just scathing the guy in the story who lost his kids at the fair and did it very well...all in English.

It's so easy when you want to do it, to speak the language. It's not that hard to pick up. The students I had picked it up fast, and I'm working on speaking better Spanish. It just takes some time, and if folks aren't willing...then I say, fuck em.

One thing I do know, is that there are some places in this country that if you don't speak Spanish, you go to the back of the line. I've spent a lot of time in northern New Mexico, and around the Questa area...you go in a little coffee shop or gas station and speak English, you are treated like crap. These are the folks that think that the SW USA should still be Mexico. Times are changing just for being polite, and sometimes a manager will tell folks to be nice if you are an anglo..but sometimes you can wait for a long time to pay for coffee if anyone around can walk in front of you that speaks Spanish. Thing that pisses me off around that area is that I have tried to go in and speak Spanish (and I'm sure it's bad...I know it's bad), but I'm a blond Anglo...so I get laughed off. I don't try it anymore, just appreciate the area and wait in line after all the locals get their coffee and listen to them talk about me in Spanish...cause it's way easier to understand while hearing than speak :)

So, I heard that I am really stupid, probably lost and not making the best way through New Mexico, and have a pretty decent ass. All are probably true at some point...so I'm ok with the translation :)
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Diego in Seattle
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Post by Diego in Seattle »

poptart wrote: If I'm a LEGAL immigrant and I see the demonstrations these assholes are staging I am FUCKING PISSED, man.
I just talked to a friend last night who came from Ireland 50 years ago. Pissed is exactly right.

Has anyone seen in any of the legislative proposals requirements that those who would be given amnesty be given vaccinations or checked for diseases? My friend's brother wasn't allowed allowed in the country in the 60's because of far-sightedness. Since they're talking amnesty for a whole bunch of people from a third world country we could be setting ourselves up for an influx of a whole bunch of diseases.
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