The Bean Barry award

Neely8 · Post by **Neely8** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:14 pm

Ive got 10 bucks for it........

Shoalzie · Post by **Shoalzie** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 12:57 am

I'm not worried about anyone beaning him...I just don't want to see him get close Hank Aaron's record. He'll probably pass Ruth but Bonds has no business breaking a record held by a classy and dignified individual that went through more shit than he could ever imagine. Getting pinched by the media today can't possibly compare to the racism Aaron had to deal with. I'm sure there are some ignorant fools still out there but I bet most of the backlash towards Bonds will be about his attitude and his connections with performance-enhancing drugs.

The Assassin · Post by **The Assassin** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 4:12 am

If he is beaned,the pitcher shouldn't aim for his head. Because the ball will just ricochet off his dome and end up in McCovey cove.

Cicero · Post by **Cicero** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 3:57 pm

I hope Bonds breaks Aaron's record. Aaron is just as bitter and still a racist after all these years. Bonds is a lot better than Aaron was and I would like to be able to see that record beaten in my lifetime. Who gives a fuck if the guy hates the media? Can you blame him? Dude is the best all-around player since Mays.

JCT · Post by **JCT** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 4:40 pm

???

Bonds couldn't carry Hank's jock. Bond's a fucking juiced out hack. Come talk when Bonds has 3771 Hits.

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 6:31 pm

Cicero wrote:I would like to be able to see that record beaten in my lifetime.

If your gay lover's boyfriend doesn't kill you in a fit of jealous rage, you'll probably be around to see Alex Rodriguez break it...unfortunately.

Hell, I'm a Yankee fan, and that guy still annoys me.

Dumbass · Post by **Dumbass** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 8:29 pm

Cicero wrote:Who gives a fuck if the guy hates the media? Can you blame him? Dude is the best all-around player since Mays.

yup

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 9:38 pm

Cicero wrote:Dude is the best all-around player since Mays.

*facepalm*

Sin,
Sid Bream

JCT · Post by **JCT** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 5:05 am

Not to mention that Hank has over 1,000 more hits.

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 6:25 pm

Mace wrote:He's only slightly better at playing left field than Sammy Sosa is at playing right.

Oh, I dunno...Barry was a pretty decent fielder...when he weighed a buck-seventy.

Henry didn't have to resort to the juice to break it.....and Bonds may not be able to do it even after padding his stats with 'roid assisted homers for a number of years.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Hammerin' Hank set that lofty mark without so much as one 50-bomb season to his credit? I was pretty young, but I don't remember Henry whining about all of his phantom injuries -- dude just went out and balled. Maybe he didn't have all of those injuries because he didn't try to carry 280 pounds on a body that was made to be 180.

That said, Bonds still has the best "hitters eye" of any player in the game today. In his defense, dude doesn't swing at too many bad pitches. Steroids don't help him with that. They do help him jack it 500 feet when he gets his pitch, though.

And another thing I never see brought to these discussions is the effect that armor has had on the game. Barry is exploiting some simple laws of physics by using the stubby bat. Shorter bat = less inertia to overcome when swinging it = more time to watch the ball before you have to commit to the pitch. And without armor, there's no way that he would be standing with his feet damn-near touching the plate, so he can cover the whole strike zone with a kiddie bat.

DamnTheCowboys · Post by **DamnTheCowboys** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 3:23 am

^^^^

RACK

Degenerate · Post by **Degenerate** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 7:47 pm

Cicero wrote:I hope Bonds breaks Aaron's record. Aaron is just as bitter and still a racist after all these years.

Nice way of putting it, since "bitter" and "racist" are two characteristics many people associate with Bonds.

GrizBearStare · Post by **GrizBearStare** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 1:58 am

The ink won't even be dry on Bonds HR record before ARod renders the whole thing moot.

Jack · Post by **Jack** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 2:44 am

Barry's got a new look!

chowd103 · Post by **chowd103** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 3:07 am

Amazing Mace wrote:^^^ I like this guy. Couldn't have said it better myself.

I'm thinking that Ted Williams might have hit .500 if he'd worn body armor, and who knows how many homers the players of that era might have if they'd been juiced. I have to laugh at the thought of someone trying to convince Williams to slip on some body armor and imagine how it might have played out........

Coach: "C'mon, Ted, put it on. It'll let you crowd the plate and pull more balls to right field."

Ted W.: "Are you kidding? I'm Teddy fuckin' Baseball, not some pussy who has to wear plastic armor to hit. I pull EVERYTHING and ain't even pussy enough to hit to left field now....so why would I want to crowd the plate? Why don't you give that shit to Mantle or some other Yankee pussy 'cause I'm Teddy fuckin' Baseball, the greatest fuckin' hitter who ever played the game, and I don't need that shit. Only a pussy would wear that shit."

Coach: "Okay, okay...Jeez, forget it, Teddy. I guess there's no need to even ask you about takin' this new fangled steroid stuff that's supposed to make you stronger."

Ted W.: "That's right.....better go lookin' for a pussy to take that stuff too, and you ain't gonna find nobody around here. I'm thinkin' you might wanna wait a decade or two to break that stuff out 'cause there's gonna be a lotta guys playin' the game that'll be chasin' our records....and they're gonna need lots of help."

OUTFUCKINSTANDING!!!

Cicero · Post by **Cicero** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 3:29 am

Toddowen wrote:
GrizBearStare wrote:The ink won't even be dry on Bonds HR record before ARod renders the whole thing moot.
I'm not so sure.

The 50+ HR hitter won't be as common in the years to come. The 50+ HR hitter is entirely a product of steroids. Being associated with using steroids in the bigs is becoming like being associated with gambling...as it should.

We'll be seeing fewer 50+ HR seasons.

Except A-Rod isnt on steroids. He def has a shot.

Jack · Post by **Jack** » Sat Mar 11, 2006 1:00 pm

Barry Bonds has 741 more at bats than Babe Ruth and has played in 227 more games than Babe Ruth and does not have as many Home Runs as Ruth, his batting average is lower, his slugging % is lower but he has walked more often than Babe Ruth. Barry has stolen more bases but the Babe has more pitching wins!

Barry............................Babe
2,730....... GAMES....... 2,503
9,140....... AT-BATS..... 8,399
708 .......HOME RUNS..... 714
.300....... AVERAGE........ .342
.611 .........SLG %.......... .690
2,311 ........WALKS.......2,062
506..............SB...............123
0..............WINS................94

For those of you keeping track at home!

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Sat Mar 11, 2006 4:41 pm

Dinsdale wrote:That said, Bonds still has the best "hitters eye" of any player in the game today. In his defense, dude doesn't swing at too many bad pitches. Steroids don't help him with that. They do help him jack it 500 feet when he gets his pitch, though.

Check out the SI article. According to the authors of the new tell all Barry book, Bonds made a direct connection between his steroid regimen and having a better eye at the plate. I don't know if it can ever be medicaly verified, because reproducing Bonds doping cycles is not something I see ever being done in a lab. But that's what Bonds is alledged to have said was one of the side effects.

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Sat Mar 11, 2006 4:45 pm

Mace wrote:^^^ I like this guy. Couldn't have said it better myself.

I'm thinking that Ted Williams might have hit .500 if he'd worn body armor, and who knows how many homers the players of that era might have if they'd been juiced. I have to laugh at the thought of someone trying to convince Williams to slip on some body armor and imagine how it might have played out........

Coach: "C'mon, Ted, put it on. It'll let you crowd the plate and pull more balls to right field."

Ted W.: "Are you kidding? I'm Teddy fuckin' Baseball, not some pussy who has to wear plastic armor to hit. I pull EVERYTHING and ain't even pussy enough to hit to left field now....so why would I want to crowd the plate? Why don't you give that shit to Mantle or some other Yankee pussy 'cause I'm Teddy fuckin' Baseball, the greatest fuckin' hitter who ever played the game, and I don't need that shit. Only a pussy would wear that shit."

Coach: "Okay, okay...Jeez, forget it, Teddy. I guess there's no need to even ask you about takin' this new fangled steroid stuff that's supposed to make you stronger."

Ted W.: "That's right.....better go lookin' for a pussy to take that stuff too, and you ain't gonna find nobody around here. I'm thinkin' you might wanna wait a decade or two to break that stuff out 'cause there's gonna be a lotta guys playin' the game that'll be chasin' our records....and they're gonna need lots of help."

Mace

To be perfectly fair, Ted Williams didn't have to face modern relief pitching. Or play anywhere near as many night games. Or face pitchers who were juiced.

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Sat Mar 11, 2006 9:32 pm

Mace wrote:And to be even more perfectly fair......today's players don't have to play doubleheaders or ride trains from city to city, and, as previously mentioned, have the luxury of wearing body armor to protect themselves against the inside pitch....oh, and they also wear batting helmets. Williams may not have played "as many" night games, but he did have to play a large number of games under the lights.....lights that were far inferior to the lighting of today's fields. The pitchers of Williams' era also pitched from a much higher mound, giving a definite advantage to the pitcher. Not sure what you mean by "modern relief pitching" but Williams faced better starting pitching, top to bottom, IMO, than the watered down staffs of today's game. Personally, I think the importance of the specialized bullpen is highly overrated in its effectiveness. I'll take Bob Gibson/Sandy Koufax/Juan Marichal/et al in the seventh or eighth inning over some no-name reliever brought into the game to get the "by the book" righty-lefty matchup.....and I think Ozzie Guillen would agree with me.

All of that said, I don't know how Williams could not hit .500 if he were playing today's game. :)

Mace

What I mean by "modern relief pitching" is simple. The old guys got more opportunities to lock in on a starter. Nowadays, most managers not named Guillen will yank pitchers at the first sign of trouble. Personally, I'd prefer sending a guy up against Juan Marichal after 8 innings than to send him in against a fresh Mariano Riveria. And the statistics bear that out as Riveria has an ERA .5 lower than Marichal.

BTW: Batting helmets were introduced in 1941 by the Brooklyn Dodgers. That was 21 years after Ray Chapman was killed by Carl Mays and even then helmets were not made mandatory. So I guess Bud Selig isn't the only Commissioner to move at a glacial pace when it comes to reform. However, it is a fallacy to say that the option to wear a helmet wasn't available to Williams. He simply chose not to. Take a peek at this picture and you see a Sox teamate of Williams wearing a helmet as Williams is crossing home plate.

http://www.boston.com/sports/redsox/wil ... 24x768.jpg

Also, the modern player may not play as many doubleheaders. But the ones that he does play are dragged out by money grubbing owners to last all day. Also, in the days of train travel, it could be said that spending all day on a train hurt pitchers far more than it did hitters. To say the least, it had to throw off their throwing schedules.

I guess my point is that there were some factors outside pure skill that helped old time hitters run up those sick averages.

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Sat Mar 11, 2006 11:41 pm

Mace wrote:Ted Williams was the greatest hitter I've ever seen and I've seen absolutely nothing from today's game that would lead me to believe he wouldn't be the dominant hitter in the game if he were playing today.

On that I think we can both agree. Players like Williams, Ruth, Cobb and Foxx would still be great players in any era. But the question is whether or not they would have put up the kind of numbers that they did back in the day. Myself, I think they would have put up numbers comparable to today's star players. Maybe a little better, or maybe a little worse. But you would not see the kind of insane RBI totals and batting averages you saw in the 30s. There's a bunch of reasons why only a handful of players have even gotten within shouting distance of .400 since WWII.

I've named some already. Here's a few more...

· Faster fielders
· Better gloves
· The Split Fingered Fastball.
· The addition of black, Latin and Asian players to MLB, which has more than made up for any expansion related dilution.

You make a good point about the height of the mound. But that is just one factor. And the travel factor I believe affected all players, not just hitters. Also, not nearly as much was known about proper mechanics or injury rehab. As a Cubs fan, you should be familiar with the story of Dizzy Dean. Were he playing today, he would have never been forced into action as quickly, and he likely would have continued with his career. Of course he also would have never won 30 games either.