ND

[Killian]

5 turnovers, including 3 in the redzone will do that.

ND has no one to blame but themselves.

[Left Seater]

I am torn on ND. They have the best loss of the one loss teams. They shit stomped Texas which handled OU who is another of the one loss teams.

That said the Last thing I want is a rematch in the playoffs. I also want the regular season to mean something and we already saw Clemson vs ND. Clemson won fair and square. (Yes it was close and at Clemson but why should Clemson be punished by having to beat them again?) At the same time ND needs to be rewarded for scheduling and beating a Texas team. They should be rewarded for this type of scheduling. (They don't get credit for the Clemson scheduling since that is required of them given their de facto ACC membership.)

So I don't know what to think about them and where to put them. If they were to lose to Stanford this issue goes away for me but that isn't good for them.

[Killian]

Playing a team that has almost as many punts as completed passes will help in that area.

The only thing I find strange is that last week the wording used was that there was a distinct set of 4 teams and then everyone else. One of those four teams lost, yet two dropped out.

I agree on rematches, Lefty. Had ND showed any life against BC and beat them 31-3 or something similar, you would have likely seen ND bumped up to #3 which would have them pitted against Alabama.

What will be interesting is to see what happens if Ok State beats OU and/or NC beats Clemson. Do you jump Ok State from 11 into the top 4 because they are conference champs? Do you leapfrog NC into the top 4? Does Clemson keep the spot even though they lost the conference championship game?

[Left Seater]

I don't have any answers to any of that, but I do know that I would favor conference champs in general. There is something to be said for winning a conference.

Lots will shake out this weekend, but not all of it.

[Mikey]

BC has the #1 defense in the FBS statistically.
They just don't know how to score points.

[Moby Dick]

As an OU fan...I feel guilty that we're No. 3.

Do I think we deserve No.3? Nope. Not until we beat Okie Light in Stillwater will I feel we deserve a top 4 ranking. (we should have beaten tejas... period.)


I just feel a let down coming up.. I was telling a few friends that November '15 had a chance to be like Oct of '00 ... we'll see if we can finish.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

Had ND showed any life against BC and beat them 31-3 or something similar, you would have likely seen ND bumped up to #3 which would have them pitted against Alabama.

Do you really think margin of victory against Boston College was the difference between #3 and #6? I have a hard time seeing that.

ND's resume is kinda weird. They lack marquee wins but they also managed to avoid a lot of the dreck that other schools play minus UMASS. So I guess that adds up to a strong SOS according to a lot of the metrics out there. They attempted to schedule strong, but unfortunately for them, USC and Georgia Tech crapped the bed. And Texas is, well, Texas. It's hard to figure if ND's best win is against a military academy or a close loss to Clemson. Granted, they still have Stanford.

The committee has stated that if you are an independent and thus not eligible to win a conference championship, then you must be unequivocally one of the four best teams. This would appear to be damaging to ND but also incredibly vague enough that the committee could toss 'em in the playoff last minute if they wanted to, with nothing concrete to back it up with other than "we think they're one of the four best teams" aka it came down to ND and some other team with much less brand power so we took ND.

[Killian]

Short answer is yes. Had they spanked BC 31-3, I have a hard time seeing the committee bumping OU ahead of them after OU struggled with TCU. OU is the only team that matters w/r/t ND. Iowa/MSU will work itself out and they said that they had to devote a number of times because 3-6 was so close. ND had two lack luster efforts in a row. I think that played a huge part in them going from 4 to 6.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

I believe Jeff Long even said ND's drop was more about the performances of Oklahoma and MSU beating ranked teams. A blowout win over BC still doesn't favorably compare to beating ranked teams by any margin of victory. In any event, if OU loses and ND beats Stanford, the Irish are most likely in.

[Mikey]

Let's get this thing going. Should be interesting. Stanford already has a ticket to the CCG so they're playing for an unlikely invite to the CFP and showcasing McCaffrey for a potential Heisman bid. ND has a lot more on the line. Stanford should come out loose. Domers...?

[Mikey]

Best game of the year. What a fucking finish.

Hogan...

[Mikey]

Whoa. Not best game of year material.

Depends on your POV.

[Mikey]

USC will beat Stanford next week, I suspect.

Not sure why you would suspect that.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

Rack Stanford.

[Roger_the_Shrubber]

Could be worse. They could be Florida. :P

[Left Seater]

And this is why conf title games suck. Stanford already proved they were the better team head to head vs SC at SC no less. Why should Stanford have to beat the again?

[Python]

If they're the better team, you have nothing to worry about.

[Mikey]

If they're the better team, you have nothing to worry about.

The better team doesn't always win, though you could make the argument that they were "better" on that day. It does seem strange that you can beat a team once and then lose the conference by not beating them again. Maybe it would be better to have a third game in that case?

For Stanford it would definitely suck to lose the conference championship and a ticket to the Rose Bowl by losing next week to a team that has three conference losses (including a home loss to Stanford). But it also gives them one more chance to put up an impressive win on the offhand chance that UNC or Florida wins next week.

[Left Seater]

If they're the better team, you have nothing to worry about.

So if SC were to win does that mean SC is the better team? Most would disagree. At best it would be a toss up.

Mikey,

No need to beat SC again just in case someone else pulls an upset, the committee just needs to look at the whole season and see the win the trees put up against SC.

[Killian]

Congrats, Mikey. That was a helluva game. I was actually hoping that they would have overturned Kizer’s last TD because I had more confidence in ND’s pathetic redzone offense than I do in BVG’s defense. Sure as shit, they left the middle of the field wide open.

Great season, all things considered for the Irish. Losing by 4 points to 2 top ten, possibly top 5 teams, both on the road with basically their 3rd string QB and the 3rd and 4th string RB is an awesome season. Losing all that talent on defense is going to suck, but ND’s offense could be the best in the country next season.

Hopefully Kelly sticks around to see it.

[Mikey]

Congrats, Mikey. That was a helluva game. I was actually hoping that they would have overturned Kizer’s last TD because I had more confidence in ND’s pathetic redzone offense than I do in BVG’s defense. Sure as shit, they left the middle of the field wide open.

Great season, all things considered for the Irish. Losing by 4 points to 2 top ten, possibly top 5 teams, both on the road with basically their 3rd string QB and the 3rd and 4th string RB is an awesome season. Losing all that talent on defense is going to suck, but ND’s offense could be the best in the country next season.

Hopefully Kelly sticks around to see it.

That was a great game, on multiple levels.

Two very different styles that turned out to be about as evenly matched a possible. I agree that if that last TD had been overturned ND would almost for sure would have won the game. Not likely Stanford could have kept them out of the end zone, and the clock would have been run. That it came down to that final drive and a last second FG was a fitting end to the game. I was pretty worried about that last FG but when I saw it go up it was obviously straight down the middle from the moment he kicked it. Though I'm really happy that Stanford won it's too bad one team had to lose.

ND had a great season, all things considered. If Kelly is somehow let go, or leaves the program, that would be a real shame. It seems that anything can happen in the coaching universe these days, though, so who knows?

[Killian]

I think he has always had his eye on the NFL. I think that would be the only situation where he would leave.

And that academic thing is pretty much moot. There are only a couple of guys each year ND can't even recruit. It's the academics once they are here that has been the recent problem.

[Killian]

Fine by me. And you realize, you stupid fuck, that ND is the one giving USC special treatment because USC is too big of a pussy to travel to Indiana in late November, right? They played the last weekend of November or the first of December until 1961.

Great call on all the talent ND has gotten from California. Here are all the players from CA in the last 10 years:

2006:
Konrad Reuland – Transferred
Will Yeatman – Transferred/kicked out of school

2007:
Jimmy Clausen – Good career at ND
Taylor Dever – Starter because depth was atrocious.

2008:
Dayne Crist – Huge bust
Joe Fauria – Good player, kicked out of school
Anthony McDonald – Injuries, career backup, bust

2009:
Shaq Evans – Transfer
Cierre Wood – Starter, solid career

2010:
Cameron Roberson – Hurt
Justin Utupo – career backup

2011:
Josh Atkinson – career backup
George Atkinson – part time starter, soft as shit
Troy Niklas – Starter, decent career
Joe Schmidt – Starter, blows

2012:
Tee Shepard – transferred before spring practice, never played anywhere

2013:
Max Redfield – Starter, blows, soft as shit
Eddie Vanderdoes – Pussy who the NCAA let out of his LOI for some bullshit reason. Good player

2014:
Tyler Luatua – Part time starter, hurt, passed on the depth chart

2015:
CJ Sanders – Moved there his senior year of high school, committed when he lived in TN
Equanimeous St. Brown – Injured


So a total of 2 players on that list who were drafted, both in the second round. I've been all for ND eliminating their recruitment of CA players. They are either busts, soft, or transfer. ND has better success sticking to Midwest players and cherry picking a few from Texas, Florida or east coast states.

And the TV deal was sweetened because of USC and Stanford? Are you out of your fucking mind? That deal was initially signed in 1991. You know, the year when Stanford was barely ranked and USC was 3-8? That deal was signed because ND was the big swinging dick in college football and they took advantage. People were tuning in to see ND, not who they were playing. But if they did, they got to see Michigan, Penn State, FSU, and Tennesse in the following years. One game against a pussy team from CA didn't matter. Hell, Stanford was much tougher for ND back then. ND doesn't get a bump from the CA teams, especially USC. Maybe they did in 2005, but the ND/USC game this year wasn't even the most watched game in it's time slot, and was 5th overall on the day.

So you want to end that rivalry? No problem. I'd miss the Stanford game. That was always hard fought and fun to watch. USC? Kelly is 4-2 against you guys. But Notre Dame gets no benefit from scheduling teams in California.

[Mikey]

RACK that blast.

All those players would have started at SC.

[Left Seater]

I will agree with most of your blast Killian but ND does get a boost by playing in CA. It may not be that it lands them a 5 star CA HS player but rather it is good for the brand. It keeps ND in front of fans around the country and helps with fund raising etc.

See also the Shamrock Series game.

[Dinsdale]

The blame for this is with Phil Knight who paid the Pac to ignore geography when deciding who played in the conferences North and South divisions because he wanted to make sure oregon would play 3 California schools every year so they could more easily recruit California players since that schools home state is completely void of any talent.
Stanford should be the Pac South representative with oregon as the north representative. But then we would hear the same argument made in Stanfords behalf made in behalf of the ducks

So, the PAC putting the 6 northernmost schools (give or take)... the same 6 who... started the fucking conference, into the same division is some nefarious plot by Phil Knight, rather than a rather obvious geographical (not to mention traditional) grouping?

Man, USC fan does love to play the victim.

[Killian]

They could accomplish the exact same thing with a game in Oregon (not sure why they haven't done this) or Washington (which they've done). Or, they could play the Shamrock Series game in California every year if the Pac10 was dumb enough not to schedule them.

I don't think they picked up much by playing the Shamrock Series game in NY (2010), MD (2011), IL (2012), Indiana (2014) or Massachusetts (2015) did much for the brand that their regular schedule didn't do. Playing in Texas in 2013 probably did, and the novelty of playing in Yankee Stadium or Fenway Park might, but it draws as much on TV as the other games and aren't really played in recruiting hot beds.

But if USC and the other Pac10 schools didn't want to schedule ND? Fine. Permanent Shamrock game in LA, Oakland, San Fran against a western team. Or schedule a game against Fresno if they felt that a CA presence was required.

[Left Seater]

The opponent doesn't much matter but the location does. Sure play Fresno or UCSD or whomever but having a game in CA or Oregon is good for the brand.

[Killian]

What makes you think the Pac would allow a shamrock game in California? Where would they play it? Jack Murphy Stadium? The two stadiums in LA belong to Pac schools, the Pac certainly is going to give up their home stadiums. Levi stadium? Thats where the Pac title game is at, would certainly seem like a conflict in interest for the Pac, who wont allow their schools to play notre dame because the irish's demands of special treatment, to give up the location of their title game.
Maybe notre dame can play in the Oakland Colliseum

Let's see, where or where could ND play a game in California if the Pac turned into a petulant toddler?

I don't know, maybe:













The baseball stadiums would have to be researched, but it worked in Boston and New York. But great call, I have no idea where ND would play a game in California if the Pac took their ball and went home. The Pac holds their conference championship game at Levi? Big fucking deal. The Pac doesn't own that stadium and I'm very confident that wouldn't be an issue. even if it was, strike one stadium from a list of 6. Oh well.

And you really want to debate the semantics of who gives who special treatment? The PacWhatever was formed in 1959, two years before USC became a pulsating vagina and requested ND move their portion of the home game to October instead of the weekend after Thanksgiving. This was also over 30 years after the series started.

And I don't give a shit who USC did or didn't get from Indiana. My point was ND has gotten absolute shit out of CA so they should stay out. It is funny that ND's two best players on defense are from Indiana, and their two worst are from CA. Kinda proves my point. And those two players from Indiana were also recruited by USC.

As I stated before, ND gets zero bump in their ratings when they play a school from California. The highest ranked game on NBC is still the 1993 game against FSU. You vastly overestimate California's importance.

You want all 5 power conferences to boycott ND? Gonna be hard, considering ND's deal with the ACC requires ND to schedule 5 teams from that conference every year. Throw in Navy and two other non-P5 schools and ND is already at 8 games for their schedule. Add in the Big12 and their watered down schedule and lack of CCG, ND could get a team from there to get to 9. Add in a Big10 team like Purdue (same state, traditional rival), MSU (still thankful for getting them into the Big10) or Maryland (UA CEO is a Maryland grad, and ND just signed one of the most lucrative apparel deals in history). Maybe add in BYU as another independent.

ND will have no problem filling out their schedule, ever. And when has California led the way in anything?

[Left Seater]

And when has California led the way in anything?

Taxes?