Honest Soccer Question

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Left Seater
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Honest Soccer Question

Post by Left Seater »

While not a World Cup question this seems the best place to ask this question. Nor am I just asking this to blast soccer as many others are quick to do.

When is soccer going to take off in this country? I have been hearing for years that soccer is on the verge of blowing up here, but it hasn't happened. In fact I am supposed to be leading this soccer revolution since I grew up playing the sport.

I first played soccer in a fall league in South Texas in the early 70s at about age 4. I continued to play soccer thru grade school and even into Jr High. In school we didn't have soccer teams until high school, but I continued to play on city/rec teams around the football season. Hell, I even played soccer in High School since it was a spring sport in Texas and I didn't want to run track. (Many football coaches "suggest" their players either run track or play soccer in the off season here.)

Even with playing the game for so many years I really have no need for it today. I have access to tickets at no charge for the Houston MLS team, but have continued to turn them down. I just don't have any desire to spend my free time with the game. I won't stop to watch it on TV if channel surfing either.

Further, my wife and I are planning on starting a family very soon and I don't see myself buying my kid a soccer ball, unless of course he asks for one. If he ever wanted to play the game I would support him with everything I had and the like, but he would have to get the desire from somewhere else. Now, I will have a football in his crib from the day he is born. I see myself making suggestions like, "let's go throw the football son", or "grab your glove son and let's play some catch." But I just don't see myself saying lets go practice dribbling or something.

So back to the original question, if soccer isn't working with people like me who grew up with the game, will it ever work in the US?
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Post by RadioFan »

There are a lot more fans now than 20-30 years ago.

Four years ago, a lot of people started watching and talking about the tournament when the U.S. made it to the quarterfinals -- their best showing since the 1930s (when there were far fewer teams in the tournament than now). If I remember correctly, there was also a lot of interest in our women's team when they won the women's tournament in 1999. There was also a much disappointment and ridicule for our men's team when they tanked in France '98.

I see the growth as slow but steady, with more kids coming of age who played the game. Organized leagues didn't really get started in this country until the 1970s. They've grown exponentially since, but we're still only talking a few decades where a lot of kids have played the game in this country, as opposed to 200 years or more in Europe and S. America.

I think a lot depends on how our national teams do in the major tournaments as far as attracting would-be casual adult viewers who otherwise wouldn't tune in.

Twenty years ago, you didn't have tons of teens and younger kids gathering at friends' houses to watch the games, which is happening now, along with designated "soccer bars" around the country for older fans. Cable TV showing all of the games live helps. When I first started watching the World Cup in 1982, only the Final was shown on a national network here ... with commercials in the middle of the game. (Living in San Antonio at the time, I was able to see many of the other games on the Spanish channel). The U.S. coverage has come a long way since then.

I don't see it "blowing up," just more of a continued steady growth of the fan base here. How much depends in part on how our national teams perform.
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Post by RadioFan »

Plenty of TV coverage of World Cup; will Americans watch?

Associated Press

NEW YORK -- More of the World Cup than ever before is coming to U.S. television.

ESPN and ABC are combining to broadcast all 64 matches in the tournament live, each one available in high definition. The networks also will augment their game coverage with studio shows and analysis.

The 52 matches shown on ESPN and ESPN2 during the June 9-July 9 tournament also will be offered on ESPN360, the network's broadband service.

Add in the inevitable cross-marketing with entities such as ESPN The Magazine and during ABC's prime-time lineup, and it's an impressive plan. The question remains, though: Will American audiences tune in?

Probably.

"The American public has come to realize that the World Cup is a huge international event. There's a lot more appreciation for it," said Neal Pilson, a media consultant and former CBS Sports president. "The average American has come to realize that this is such an important event to so many people, that it's probably worth his time."

It's likely the ratings will increase from the 2002 World Cup in South Korea, when games often were televised in the middle of the night because of the time difference. Pilson said he expects the viewing audience to be "substantially larger" than four years ago. Along with the advantage of a smaller time difference, Pilson said that in this era of globalization, Americans are more interested in what's going on in other countries.

"This will easily be the most-watched World Cup," said John Skipper, ESPN's executive vice president for content.

The World Cup surpasses even the Olympics in importance in many countries. But soccer long has been on the outside of the sports landscape in the United States. Critics point to a lack of action and a dearth of scoring as the major reasons American audiences haven't taken to the sport on the level they've embraced football, baseball, basketball and even auto racing.

But, as NBC has proven with the Olympics, while Americans may not always love sports dominated by athletes from outside the United States, they respond positively to human drama. To that end, an advertising campaign that features the music of U2 and narration by some of the band's members focuses on human interest stories rather than the teams on the field.

For instance, it's pointed out in one particular commercial that the leaders of feuding factions in the Ivory Coast called a temporary truce to a civil war in order to cheer their team in qualifying for the World Cup.

"We're going to try to sell the beauty of the game, what it means to the world, the pageantry," Skipper said.

It certainly helps that the United States has climbed the world rankings in the last several years. The U.S. team is ranked fifth heading into the World Cup, though a pool that includes favorite Brazil could make it tough for the Americans to advance very far.

While a successful run deep in the tournament by the U.S. team almost certainly would equal significant ratings and excitement -- the 1999 World Cup-winning U.S. women generated plenty of interest on their way to the title -- the networks believe the tournament itself can attract audiences, no matter the performance of the Americans.

Players such as Ronaldinho, David Beckham and Thierry Henry are all highlight reels waiting to happen. The key is getting U.S. audiences to understand their genius on the field.

Tim Scanlan, a senior coordinating producer of the World Cup coverage, said he estimates that only about 5 percent of the viewing audience will be completely knowledgeable about the sport. The rest will have to get their information from players-turned analysts such as Eric Wynalda, Marcelo Balboa and Julie Foudy.

"We have to educate, enhance, entertain," Scanlan said. "And we have to advance the game of soccer."

In the end, it will be the players and their performances that will either attract or repel audiences. But it certainly doesn't hurt for the World Cup to have the support of the cross-pollinating promotion machine that is ABC and ESPN.

"We have a lot of power if we get all of our platforms behind this thing," Skipper said.

Now they'll get to see if U.S. viewers respond.
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Post by Nishlord »

The worst thing that happened to Sahkah in the US was the NASL, which was rammed down American throats from the off, stocked with old foreign players, and twisted the rules to pander to a fickle audience.

The second worst thing is the ludicrous ranking America has with FIFA. Average American will see that you're in the top 5 and then wonder why they couldn't get out the group stage.

I still think America is going to win in 2014, depending on where it's going to be held.
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Post by Mr T »

Glad to hear 2014 is our year

Left, I only really get up for soccer once every 4 years. I cant watch the MLS or any other league for that matter.
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Post by Dinsdale »

Nishlord wrote:The worst thing that happened to Sahkah in the US was the NASL, which was rammed down American throats from the off, stocked with old foreign players, and twisted the rules to pander to a fickle audience.
Yes and no.

I always kinda dug the fact they kind of encouraged the fisticuffs.

And I'll probably always remember sitting in the front row at that ill-fated Soccer Bowl, and having Pele wink and wave to me personally as he walked through the tunnel for halftime below me. The most famous athlete in the history of the universe at that point all but threw me Mean Joe Green's jersey, or almost the equivalent. That was pretty damned cool.


There was an upside.

And back in those interesting days, here in my town, we had a very young, up-and -coming English star by the name of Peter Withe, who I'm guessing Nish is quite familiar with. Jim Coombs was put out to pasture here...and damn near scored a few from the goal box...his claim to fame. He did drop a couple in the box that were headed in -- not too often the keeper becomes an offensive weapon.

And there were a few guys that wanted to move to the US, and came in their prime -- Gorgio Chinaglia comes to mind. And Julie Veee(I don't think he went by that name in Europe) was an absolute monster...probably my favorite player to watch back in those days...just dominant, although Gorgio was probably the best player in the hostory of the NASL. And I did get to see the human tradgedy that was Georgie Best in all of his drunken glory. He pretty much sucked, but when he did have one of those rare moments of clarity...watch out. The greatest player that never was.


I'll bet if the NASL were around today, they'd be pimping Diego Maradonna as their big star.
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Post by Nishlord »

The first live game I ever saw was Forest 4 Ipswich 0 in 1977. Peter Withe scored all 4 goals.

The NASL was a bit similar to NFL Europe. Instead of introducing football at grassroots level like everywhere else, they plonked the whole lot down in one go. You can't introduce sports like that to any country, but especially America.
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Post by BSmack »

Around these parts Rochester's USL 1st Division (one step below MLS) soccer team outdraws an equaly competitive AAA baseball team by nearly 2 to 1. And with a new "soccer specific" stadium opening up tommorow night, expect that trend to continue. Sadly, the powers that be in this town put forth a half assed effort getting the new stadium built and will never get the stadium up to MLS specs (20,000+ seats). So, even though Rochester outdraws many MLS teams, they won't be joining them baring a minor miracle.

Nish, be prepared for a laugh. Here's the cutting edge in US soccer pitch construction. It's like Wembley all over again. ;)

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Post by SunCoastSooner »

Nish are you serious about 2014?

I think it is a real possibility. We are developing some real heady talent for future international play. The typical American soccer fan hears that and they just think Adu but I don't even think he is our best prospect; just the most hyped. The Johnson kid (can't remember his first name) is a stunning talent at the CAM; he controlled the middle of the field for us in the Juniors last year. America could have made a real run at the juniors last year if not for catching Italy in the first game in the knockout round. Italy barely qualified but did so without its three best players; when they finally hit the field with their A team the kid with the golden shoes just worked us over.

Don't know if you were being sarcastic or not but I think there is a real shot at 2014 with all these talented youngsters we have and by then Adu and Johnson will have some real international and possibly European club play experience.
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Post by Nishlord »

I wrote an article in 1998 the day after the US lost to Iran saying that I could easily see the US winning in 2014, and I see no reason to take that back.

If the host country is outside of Europe or South America (and it's looking like Australia is getting the nod), then it's going to be as random as 2002 was. And the US is going to be better prepared.
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Post by Nishlord »

BSmack wrote:
Nish, be prepared for a laugh. Here's the cutting edge in US soccer pitch construction. It's like Wembley all over again. ;)

Image
About 75% of the 92 professional clubs in the UK would kill to have a stadium like that.
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Post by SunCoastSooner »

Nishlord wrote:
BSmack wrote:
Nish, be prepared for a laugh. Here's the cutting edge in US soccer pitch construction. It's like Wembley all over again. ;)

Image
About 75% of the 92 professional clubs in the UK would kill to have a stadium like that.
Unfortunatly Bsmack doesn't understand this.
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Post by socal »

It's slow and steady growth as RF mentioned. Socal is awash with youth soccer, and it ain't just Mexicans on a Sunday afternoon at the park.

LS, I played only one year as an 11 year-old and dropped it. My coach was completely inexperienced as was our entire AYSO region. Hell, I think AYSO itself hadn't been in existence for more than 10 years. Give me baseball, basketball, and football. That's what I stayed with through high school.

Over the years since 1982 I would follow World Cup matches casually and almost exclusively on Spanish language television. In '94, I had the opportunity to attend matches here in the U.S. but didn't feel so inspired.

I did watch a bunch on television though. And watching the U.S. v. Brazil match (shit was that '98 or '94. It was '98. I think this acid flashback was mixed up with US v. Colombia when the Colombian defender scored an own goal and was capped a year or two later in Cartagena) was unlike any other. It was here in our backyard and we watched it with "family" from South America. They knew each and every one of the players on both rosters, who they played for during the year, etc. I knew we had that long-haired defender who played guitar. Though I was rooting for my country, it was clear they were a step behind in talent and three steps behind in tactics. We were as loud and obnoxious as any Lakers/Dodgers championship game. Too bad we had to attend a wedding in a couple of hours.

:lol:

As impressed as I was with the hype and spectacle nothing in that left near as indelible a mark as was the sight of my two-year old son taking his mini-basketball, dropping on the living room floor, and dribbling it in his patent leather shoes and tuxedo. He has played ever since. He chose soccer over baseball and is about to enter high school. The level of competition is extremely high. There ain't no way in hell he or any other kid who is currently playing on a traveling club team will even get a sniff at tryouts. The soccer base in this country is getting larger by the minute.

You ask when is it gonna take off? Don't think of it as an explosion. More of a slow boil. We're the proverbial frog in a pot of water who doesn't notice that the water is getting hotter.
Last edited by socal on Sun Jun 04, 2006 5:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by BSmack »

SunCoastSooner wrote:
Nishlord wrote:
BSmack wrote:
Nish, be prepared for a laugh. Here's the cutting edge in US soccer pitch construction. It's like Wembley all over again. ;)

Image
About 75% of the 92 professional clubs in the UK would kill to have a stadium like that.
Unfortunatly Bsmack doesn't understand this.
Considering that the Rhinos have been blathering on about joining the US version of the Premier League, I'd be curious to know how many of the 75% are in the Premier League? My guess in not very freakin many. But I'll be happy to wait for his answer. Though a quick look at Premiership stadium capacities tells me that PAETEC Park has nowhere near that level of seating.

My whole point is that that stadium cost 20 million, does not have any proper luxury boxes, is 6,000 seats shy of the MINIMUM seating capacity recomended by MLS, is in one of the worst neighborhoods in Rochester and does not even have the capacity to be expanded to the 20,000 seat minimum recomended by MLS. In other words, it was nothing but a tease.

And a bad one at that. Which is too bad. Because Rochester is one of the few areas in the US where soccer is arguably our biggest spectator sport. With the level of support Rochester has shown the Rhinos, and the level of play that they have shown year in and year out, they would be in MLS if there were a promotion/relegation system here. But there isn't, so they likely never will.
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Post by War Wagon »

Hey, maybe Crapchester can convince Lamar Hunt to move the Wizards there? Lord knows, the 5,000 or so people who attend their games regularly in KC won't miss them. Most comical thing you've ever seen...5, 000 soccer geeks trying to make some noise in 80,000 seat Arrowhead stadium on a Saturday nite.

But it gets worse...like when the Chiefs have a home game the next day and the fooking soccah pitch lines are still drawn on the field. :x

Actually, I believe a new soccer specific stadium is being built for the Wizards over on the Kansas side of the line. They can't get it done quick enough so that they can quit making a farce out of the real football shrine in this town.

Good luck to Team USA and all, but I can't ever see myself plopping down in front of the TV to watch 90 minutes of non-stop futility. Much less me ever actually paying $$$ to go to a game.
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Post by RadioFan »

War Wagon wrote:Good luck to Team USA and all, but I can't ever see myself plopping down in front of the TV to watch 90 minutes of non-stop futility.
Check out the Netherlands/Holland. They play an attacking style, usually in the other team's half of the field. If you want to see futility, watch Italy play. Actually don't. :x Of all the teams we play in the first round, I'd like to see us beat them the most by FAR, not only because of the way they tend to play (defensive-minded bullshit), but because we've never beat them before, in a tournament or exhibition game.
Much less me ever actually paying $$$ to go to a game.
Actually seeing a game in person -- especially a World Cup game -- is very different that seeing it on TV. Not sure how to explain it except that TV does a very poor job in capturing how good the best players in the world really are. In person, you're able to see the skill level, along with a lot better idea of how plays are developed and set up ... basically the rhythm of the game, for lack of a better word. In person, you can almost see ahead of time when a team is about to score, where it's very difficult watching on TV, in many cases.

WW, I was at the first Wizards' game in KC, and saw several games during their first season. I think they averaged 17,000 that first year. There were more than 20,000 at the opening game I saw back in '97 or '98. I also saw the U.S. national team play in World Cup qualifying game there in 2001. That drew a crowd of more than 40,000.

You're right though, Arrowhead is too big of a venue, at least for now. Besides, like you said, it's the Chiefs' shrine.
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Post by socal »

Live is where it's at. I haven't had the pleasure of seeing a WC match in person but I once saw a World Cup qualifier between Bolivia and host Ecuador in '99. Ecuador rolled them and the country went berserk.
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Post by Degenerate »

I've been to a Final Four, NASCAR race, NBA playoff game, an Ohio State-Michigan game, i've seen Man U play PSV Eindhoven in the Champions League, and i've seen a bunch of other shit i can't remember. Aside from the Kentucky Derby, no sporting event i have ever seen in person can compare to the two Cup games I saw at RFK Stadium in DC in 1994. It's like you're partying with 50,000 or so people who literally came in from all over the world.
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Post by War Wagon »

Hell, I actually went to a NASL game back in around 1968. Kansas City had a team, I think they were called the Spurs, not sure...little help here?

Anyways, I was prolly only 6 or so, Dad took me. The only thing I remember is that a ball got kicked into the stands. Some guy caught it and proceeded to literally sit on it.... everyone was hollering for him to throw it back.

I think the ushers or cops finally had to come up there and make the asshole give it up.
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Post by Dinsdale »

Dinsdale wrote:Peter Withe, who I'm guessing Nish is quite familiar with.
Nishlord wrote:Forest

Yeah...didn't figure I was going too terribly far out on a limb with that one.

I think he played here from 75-76, IIRC. Dude must have been about 19 when he first arrived.

Him and some of the other players lived not too far up the road. Me Mum(that's Limeyspeak for "Mother," twits) used to offer up English meals and whatnot. Met Peter on several occasions, but I was very young at the time (I think we're the same age, Nish, or thereabouts). What a nut that guy is. Acted just as goofy off the field as he did on it. And I think he dropped a 4-spot on somebody when he played here, too.

Prolific scorer...pretty much a "cherry picker" back in those days.

Small world, eh?


BTW -- I believe my Dad is still calling his shot that Southampton will win it all...next year...or the year after...or something. They just need to get back in the Premier League, and IT'S ON!
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Post by War Wagon »

Dinsdale wrote: Me Mum(that's Limeyspeak for "Mother," twits)...
No shit? So "twits" must be the limey equivalent of "tards" then, eh?

Let's try using it in a sentence then:

I bought me Mum some mums for Mum's day, instead of taking her to OutBack SteakHouse...wait, that's quite Australian.

Sorry, doesn't work.

I'm sure that Nish is quite aghast at your attempt to snuggle up to his short gnarlies...or maybe not.

Save it, Dins...I already know that I'm on your "Ignore" list.

I just like giving you a snuggie now and then.

Faggish twit.
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Post by RadioFan »

Cigarettes are down the hall, gentlemen.
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Post by Nishlord »

Oi chaps, no carping. Football is the sport of peace, remember. Ahem.
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Post by Nishlord »

Oh, and apparently there's already moaning from other countries that Americans are swooping in and block-booking tickets.
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