Your thoughts on Farmers Markets

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Rootbeer
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Your thoughts on Farmers Markets

Post by Rootbeer »

Do you go to local markets? What kinds of things do you buy regularly? What kinds of things do you buy impulsively?

I'm thinking about opening one. I have some ideal frontage with an old restaurant I could convert into a FM. My closest competition is an hour away so I'd have the local customer base to myself. I need to start advertising to producers and see what kinds of products I can source close to the store.
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Kierland

Re: Your thoughts on Farmers Markets

Post by Kierland »

SLO has one of the oldest FMs of any Downtown in the USA. I buy produce. WTF do you think I buy? It’s a fucking FM. You grow local produce and you sell it. In your ice box that is probably cabbage for two months till you freeze back over.
To answer your question: Buy a few grow lights (the LEDs these days are amazingly cheap to buy and run) and make the store the farm (hydroponic) and do micro greens. You’re welcome.
Kierland

Re: Your thoughts on Farmers Markets

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Way to not address any of his concerns. Are you even capable of human conversation?
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Re: Your thoughts on Farmers Markets

Post by Diego in Seattle »

Hey Mikey;
Is the Quayleudia FM still going, and if so, have you been to it recently?
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Rootbeer
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Re: Your thoughts on Farmers Markets

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Jsc810 wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 4:57 pm We have some good ones in Baton Rouge, and once a week it is expanded to include local artists selling paintings and homemade jewelry etc.

Also, last year the Legislature passed a law which encourages SNAP recipients to shop at farmers markets by providing a dollar for dollar match, so $10 of fresh veggies would only cost $5. That also helps local farmers as well.

Hope you're able to open one up, would be great for your community.
Their website is pretty cool. Do you visit the market? How often? What do you buy regularly?
If there was a DoorDash type delivery offered for your regularly purchased items, would you be more likely to use it or do you enjoy the process of shopping in person?
Ain't nothin' like the real thing, baby.
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Mikey
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Re: Your thoughts on Farmers Markets

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I've been going to the farmers market in Vista, CA every Saturday morning for probably 20 years. It used to be in the parking lot at the City Hall / Library but, since they completely rebuilt that maybe a decade ago, it was moved to the parking lot at the county court house. A much better and larger space with plenty of parking even with half of it taken up by the market. They put solar shade structures in a few years ago so now there's plenty of shade in the summer.

The Vista market is probably the biggest one in San Diego County, which has dozens and they are all certified by the county Farm Bureau. Vendors come from San Diego County as well as other parts of CA. San Diego County has the largest number of farms of any county in the US. Maybe not the most acreage, but many family farms averaging something like 5 acres. You tend to buy what's seasonal but, around here, a lot of stuff is available year round. I'm still buying great heirloom tomatoes in the middle of January. My regular stuff is lettuce, kale (the kind with dark green leaves called Tuscan, lacinato, elephant, or black kale), microgreens, broccoli, celery, avocados, cauliflower, romanesco, mushrooms, carrots, eggplant, radishes, etc. Apples, pears, peaches and other stone fruit comes in from the Central Valley on a seasonal basis. Apples are great right now. There are a lot of stalls with non-farmer vendors like cheese, bakery products, meats, arts and crafts, and food truck type prepared food. I mostly avoid those, except for one local bakery that makes a great multi-grain sourdough bread among lots of other stuff.

I bought a bag of English peas on Saturday that I still have to shell and cook up, probably with some "golden thread" mushrooms.

https://www.sdfarmbureau.org/farmers-market/

https://vistafarmersmarket.com/
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Re: Your thoughts on Farmers Markets

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Mikey wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 6:10 pm I've been going to the farmers market in Vista, CA every Saturday morning for probably 20 years. It used to be in the parking lot at the City Hall / Library but, since they completely rebuilt that maybe a decade ago, it was moved to the parking lot at the county court house. A much better and larger space with plenty of parking even with half of it taken up by the market. They put solar shade structures in a few years ago so now there's plenty of shade in the summer.

The Vista market is probably the biggest one in San Diego County, which has dozens and they are all certified by the county Farm Bureau. Vendors come from San Diego County as well as other parts of CA. San Diego County has the largest number of farms of any county in the US. Maybe not the most acreage, but many family farms averaging something like 5 acres. You tend to buy what's seasonal but, around here, a lot of stuff is available year round. I'm still buying great heirloom tomatoes in the middle of January. My regular stuff is lettuce, kale (the kind with dark green leaves called Tuscan, lacinato, elephant, or black kale), microgreens, broccoli, celery, avocados, cauliflower, romanesco, mushrooms, carrots, eggplant, radishes, etc. Apples, pears, peaches and other stone fruit comes in from the Central Valley on a seasonal basis. Apples are great right now. There are a lot of stalls with non-farmer vendors like cheese, bakery products, meats, arts and crafts, and food truck type prepared food. I mostly avoid those, except for one local bakery that makes a great multi-grain sourdough bread among lots of other stuff.

I bought a bag of English peas on Saturday that I still have to shell and cook up, probably with some "golden thread" mushrooms.

https://www.sdfarmbureau.org/farmers-market/

https://vistafarmersmarket.com/
Thought it was too damn hot to grow a decent apple in your neck of the woods. They must do it at higher elevations. What sort of apples do they grow?

And can anyone tell me why our bitter little elf can't simply answer a question without being a douche? At least he did give some sort of an answer for a change, after criticizing everyone else's.

Chip did give some good advice about courting poor folks. Good to see that LA has that 2 for 1 deal with foodstamps in an attempt to wean poor fukks away from their horrendous diets. Probably a waste of time, but good on them anyway.
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Re: Your thoughts on Farmers Markets

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Quite a few people around me have small family farms. It's rural Wyoming, duh, but what's probably unexpected is some of these farms have geothermal greenhouses. Search Walipini for examples. I am building a geothermal greenhouse this spring and I'll post pics. I had the building plans approved last week. It's a 960sq ft structure, sunk 6' into the soil with buried pipes pumping 55º air year round. There's a guy North of me growing pomegranates, oranges, lemons, and grapes year-round in a similar structure. If a few other people would build geothermal greenhouses on their farms and sell the excess at my Farmer's Market, we could offer fruits and veggies at least 10 months/year. A close friend was already planning to grow mushrooms and I talked him into scaling his operation to a level where he can sell the excess.

I know I can get a good supply of fresh eggs and meat birds from the small farms around me. I can also sell rabbit meat but Beef and Pork are heavily regulated. I cannot sell anything with a beef or pork product or my entire location is subject to Dept of Ag oversight. If I stay away from those meats, Dept of Ag has no oversight, thanks to the Wyoming Food Freedom Act. The legal beagles around here would probably find the Food Freedom law fascinating.

Raw milk producers are about an hour from me so that would take some logistics. I know raw milk with the cream on top would be a huge seller. I've been interviewing buyers for a few months and I feel like we could sell 300-500 gallons/week. That's production from 7-10 cows.
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Re: Your thoughts on Farmers Markets

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I go to scope out the plump, fat asses on the overweight, middle aged moms that might be looking for some backdoor action
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A few of us are ruining some tube socks.
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Re: Your thoughts on Farmers Markets

Post by Kierland »

Rootbeer wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 7:59 pm Quite a few people around me have small family farms. It's rural Wyoming, duh, but what's probably unexpected is some of these farms have geothermal greenhouses. Search Walipini for examples. I am building a geothermal greenhouse this spring and I'll post pics. I had the building plans approved last week. It's a 960sq ft structure, sunk 6' into the soil with buried pipes pumping 55º air year round. There's a guy North of me growing pomegranates, oranges, lemons, and grapes year-round in a similar structure. If a few other people would build geothermal greenhouses on their farms and sell the excess at my Farmer's Market, we could offer fruits and veggies at least 10 months/year. A close friend was already planning to grow mushrooms and I talked him into scaling his operation to a level where he can sell the excess.

I know I can get a good supply of fresh eggs and meat birds from the small farms around me. I can also sell rabbit meat but Beef and Pork are heavily regulated. I cannot sell anything with a beef or pork product or my entire location is subject to Dept of Ag oversight. If I stay away from those meats, Dept of Ag has no oversight, thanks to the Wyoming Food Freedom Act. The legal beagles around here would probably find the Food Freedom law fascinating.

Raw milk producers are about an hour from me so that would take some logistics. I know raw milk with the cream on top would be a huge seller. I've been interviewing buyers for a few months and I feel like we could sell 300-500 gallons/week. That's production from 7-10 cows.
Gee you have been in bumfuck nowhere for how long and you finally figured out how a farm works. What’s next you going to explain how to start a car or maybe cook a hamburger? You people are fucking weirdos.
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Re: Your thoughts on Farmers Markets

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DiT wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 8:04 pm I go to scope out the plump, fat asses on the overweight, middle aged moms that might be looking for some backdoor action
How overweight are we talking?

Sincerely,
That guy who was into fat chicks. It's been too long and I lost my spreadsheet.
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Re: Your thoughts on Farmers Markets

Post by Kierland »

Kink shaming and body shaming all in one sentence. You sure are a nice guy Chip.
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Re: Your thoughts on Farmers Markets

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I think Dinsdale was known for enthusiastically fucking anything with a hole in the right place.
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Re: Your thoughts on Farmers Markets

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Mikey wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 10:17 pm I think Dinsdale was known for enthusiastically fucking anything with a hole in the right place.
ftfy, nc.
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Re: Your thoughts on Farmers Markets

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smackaholic wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 7:57 pm
Thought it was too damn hot to grow a decent apple in your neck of the woods. They must do it at higher elevations. What sort of apples do they grow?
Apples, pears and stone fruit (peaches, apricots, plums, pluots, cherries) come from up north in the Central Valley near Stockton. The growers load up and hit a lot of the SoCal farmers markets. Apples are almost year round, with a lot of varieties depending on the season. Last week was Pink Lady and Fuji. There was a farm from up near Palmdale/Lancaster (Pearblossom believe it or not) that used to sell the most incredible peaches. Haven't seen them for a while.

Most of the tree fruit around here is citrus. Also figs. If you haven't tried a grilled fresh fig with goat cheese melted on top, you're missing out.

I already have navel orange, tangelo and Meyer lemon trees so I don't really need any of that. Here's my tangelo tree a few days ago. We've been drinking fresh juice for probably a month and there's at least a couple months of fruit left up there.

ImageImage
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Re: Your thoughts on Farmers Markets

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Jsc810 wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 6:23 pm
Rootbeer wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 6:04 pmDo you visit the market? How often? What do you buy regularly?
If there was a DoorDash type delivery offered for your regularly purchased items, would you be more likely to use it or do you enjoy the process of shopping in person?
Of course I go, maybe one a month or so. I buy every time I go, fruit or veggies whatever looks good.

And hell no I wouldn't use door dash because going there is part of the experience, and I want to see what may be available. I always see people that I know there, which is nice. You never know what you may find, but there is always something.
Around here there's a big movement called CSA or Community Supported Agriculture. Basically a subscription service between you and a farm where they deliver a box of fresh produce, usually once a week, to your home or a central location. Lots of variations based on how much you want, do you want to choose from a list, or just take what they have at any given time. A lot of the local farms started offer this at the beginning of the pandemic because there was some thought that they might close down the local farmers markets, and if you have a farm you've been growing stuff and you can't just put it away for later, and most of these growers only sell at the farmers markets and maybe local restaurants. I think the farmers market was closed for maybe one week (maybe not at all) before the powers that be realized that it's the best way to get good healthy food to people without gathering indoors.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community ... griculture
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Re: Your thoughts on Farmers Markets

Post by Kierland »

Just picked two huge bags from friend’s neighbor cause she is a bit too old for the ladder now. Will be a least a gallon of juice. Major perk of central and Southern California for sure.
Fresh figs are highly underrated by most people. Also loquats are the bomb.
Also Feijoa sellowiana the pineapple guava is a great drought tolerant plant and the petals make a great palate cleanser and fruits make a delish jam.
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Re: Your thoughts on Farmers Markets

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Kierland wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 11:00 pm Just picked two huge bags from friend’s neighbor cause she is a bit too old for the ladder now. Will be a least a gallon of juice. Major perk of central and Southern California for sure.
Fresh figs are highly underrated by most people. Also loquats are the bomb.
Also Feijoa sellowiana the pineapple guava is a great drought tolerant plant and the petals make a great palate cleanser and fruits make a delish jam.
We have a bunch of pineapple guavas in our yard planted by the landscaper when we reconfigured the yard after we moved in. The flowers are nice, but I don't particularly like the fruit and I'm not really into making jam. They always make a mess when you don't pick all of them.

Our local supermarket has been carrying some locally grown pink grapefruits that are incredible except that they're pretty small, not much larger than a big navel orange, so they're selling them in sacks of a dozen for $2.99. Enough to make a half gallon of the best grapefruit juice you ever tasted.
Last edited by Mikey on Tue Jan 24, 2023 11:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Your thoughts on Farmers Markets

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Kierland wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 8:20 pm Gee you have been in bumfuck nowhere for how long and you finally figured out how a farm works. What’s next you going to explain how to start a car or maybe cook a hamburger? You people are fucking weirdos.
Let's check the replay. You claimed Wyoming can only grow cabbages 2 months of the year.
When I point out people are growing pomegranates in the winter your comeback is to claim I'm the one who just learned how agriculture works?

You proved yourself a flag-bearing moron in subsequent posts with no assist. Stunning self-ass-kicking. Absolutely stunning.
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Re: Your thoughts on Farmers Markets

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Go for it, Rootbeer. We have a great system of FMs here and they all seem to thrive.

We buy vegetables, fruits, and flowers/plants regularly. Find a good pie maker!
Kierland

Re: Your thoughts on Farmers Markets

Post by Kierland »

Rootbeer wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 11:24 pm
Kierland wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 8:20 pm Gee you have been in bumfuck nowhere for how long and you finally figured out how a farm works. What’s next you going to explain how to start a car or maybe cook a hamburger? You people are fucking weirdos.
Let's check the replay. You claimed Wyoming can only grow cabbages 2 months of the year.
When I point out people are growing pomegranates in the winter your comeback is to claim I'm the one who just learned how agriculture works?

You proved yourself a flag-bearing moron in subsequent posts with no assist. Stunning self-ass-kicking. Absolutely stunning.
Learn to read you book hating bumpkin. I said probably. Ok so you grow pomegranates too. Yeah those are super hard to grow. The “just learned ag” quip was because your post was shit kids learned in HS and you are out making it sound like it’s some great feat. “Milk come from cow” is not some great revelation.

Not one word on best practices. What are they in my area and in the market I wish to grow? How will that effect my supply reliability? You probably don’t even know what the term means. “Neighbor grow mushroom, me want mushroom too” is child’s play. You are in over your head and too stupid to listen to the only person here who has ever run a multi-level seed to table operation. Not one word on back supply logistics or area survey marketing. But you do you simpleton.

You’re an idiot of the highest caliber.
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Re: Your thoughts on Farmers Markets

Post by Kierland »

Booger wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 11:32 pm Find a good pie maker!
That is the best advice you are going to get that you are smart enough to understand. Clement Market outside Sac got a new pie maker and they had to reconfigure the fucking street to handle the new traffic. Somehow they make rhubarb pie not just good but foodgasmic.
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Re: Your thoughts on Farmers Markets

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Kierland backpedaling like he didn't just make a fool of himself is par for this 9 hole course, lol.

Did you guys know he owns a chain of successful seed-to-table farms, production facilities, transportation systems and retailing markets? Probably owns a merchant processing system like Jack Dorsey too! I had no idea either. If someone starts a NASA thread I bet he claims to be an astronaut. In a Jess The Rookie thread he'll claim to be an actor. In a midstream energy thread he'll claim to be a process control engineer. He won't substantiate these claims, mind you, but he will vomit words with an air of confidence as though everyone else is a fool for not realizing he's smarter than Elon Musk and more verbacious than Greg Gutfeld.

What a sad, strange little man. Smartest thing I've done in this forum is put that dickhead on ignore.
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Re: Your thoughts on Farmers Markets

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Rootbeer wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 1:17 am Kierland backpedaling like he didn't just make a fool of himself is par for this 9 hole course, lol.

Did you guys know he owns a chain of successful seed-to-table farms, production facilities, transportation systems and retailing markets? Probably owns a merchant processing system like Jack Dorsey too! I had no idea either. If someone starts a NASA thread I bet he claims to be an astronaut. In a Jess The Rookie thread he'll claim to be an actor. In a midstream energy thread he'll claim to be a process control engineer. He won't substantiate these claims, mind you, but he will vomit words with an air of confidence as though everyone else is a fool for not realizing he's smarter than Elon Musk and more verbacious than Greg Gutfeld.

What a sad, strange little man. Smartest thing I've done in this forum is put that dickhead on ignore.
This. Best summation of MS in some time.
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Re: Your thoughts on Farmers Markets

Post by Kierland »

I didn’t backpedal, I was explaining English to you. The rest is just more of you lying about what I said. Since you don’t have an actual take. I never claimed to be the smartest person in the world. Just smarter than you idiots. Pretty low bar. I had a life before I was an Atty. Care to guess what it was? Of course you don’t. You would rather just wallow in ignorance.

Dude asks for help, I spell it out, his skin is so thin he can’t just say thanks.
Kierland

Re: Your thoughts on Farmers Markets

Post by Kierland »

Booger wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 1:20 am
Rootbeer wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 1:17 am Kierland backpedaling like he didn't just make a fool of himself is par for this 9 hole course, lol.

Did you guys know he owns a chain of successful seed-to-table farms, production facilities, transportation systems and retailing markets? Probably owns a merchant processing system like Jack Dorsey too! I had no idea either. If someone starts a NASA thread I bet he claims to be an astronaut. In a Jess The Rookie thread he'll claim to be an actor. In a midstream energy thread he'll claim to be a process control engineer. He won't substantiate these claims, mind you, but he will vomit words with an air of confidence as though everyone else is a fool for not realizing he's smarter than Elon Musk and more verbacious than Greg Gutfeld.

What a sad, strange little man. Smartest thing I've done in this forum is put that dickhead on ignore.
This. Best summation of MS in some time.
Yes all lies is the best you half witted fucktards can muster.
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Re: Your thoughts on Farmers Markets

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Rootbeer wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 1:17 am Kierland backpedaling like he didn't just make a fool of himself is par for this 9 hole course, lol.

Did you guys know he owns a chain of successful seed-to-table farms, production facilities, transportation systems and retailing markets? Probably owns a merchant processing system like Jack Dorsey too! I had no idea either. If someone starts a NASA thread I bet he claims to be an astronaut. In a Jess The Rookie thread he'll claim to be an actor. In a midstream energy thread he'll claim to be a process control engineer. He won't substantiate these claims, mind you, but he will vomit words with an air of confidence as though everyone else is a fool for not realizing he's smarter than Elon Musk and more verbacious than Greg Gutfeld.

What a sad, strange little man. Smartest thing I've done in this forum is put that dickhead on ignore.
This.

Looking forward to some pics of your set up. I've been thinking about a greenhouse, but not very seriously. I'm not even sure what it takes to make a hail proof greenhouse.

We have a small backyard plot. Got a couple hundred pounds of tomatoes last year and enough peppers for about a gallon of hot sauce. We extended the bed and planted garlic last fall, so that should be ready early summer.
Screw_Michigan wrote: Fri Apr 05, 2019 4:39 pmUnlike you tards, I actually have functioning tastebuds and a refined pallet.
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Re: Your thoughts on Farmers Markets

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Mikey wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 10:45 pm
I already have navel orange, tangelo and Meyer lemon trees so I don't really need any of that. Here's my tangelo tree a few days ago. We've been drinking fresh juice for probably a month and there's at least a couple months of fruit left up there.

ImageImage
Nice. No avocado tree?
Screw_Michigan wrote: Fri Apr 05, 2019 4:39 pmUnlike you tards, I actually have functioning tastebuds and a refined pallet.
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Re: Your thoughts on Farmers Markets

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mvscal wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2023 11:56 pm Looking forward to some pics of your set up. I've been thinking about a greenhouse, but not very seriously. I'm not even sure what it takes to make a hail proof greenhouse.
Do you know what growing zone you're in? I'm in 4B. It'll be -18°F the next two nights. My greenhouse will lose approx. 50,000 btu per hour at those temps. If I can geothermal to cover most or all of that loss I can grow year-round. I've run the numbers multiple times and I'm pretty sure I'm not missing anything but there's a wide gap between theory and application. I'll post pics.

We don't get much hail big enough to damage 10mm double-wall polycarbonate. Once every 20 years or so, I'd say. I expect to replace the outer skin about that often anyhow.

If you get late summer hail, you might consider using shade cloth as a hail screen. You'll need shade cloth in peak summer anyhow. Build a sturdy framework for your shade cloth and stretch it tight.

We have a small backyard plot. Got a couple hundred pounds of tomatoes last year and enough peppers for about a gallon of hot sauce. We extended the bed and planted garlic last fall, so that should be ready early summer.
We grew two raised beds and one in-ground bed of tomatoes. 12 roma plants in raised beds and 18 slicing tomato plants in the ground.

Grew bell peppers in fabric bags and roasted them for salsa. Added roasted jalapenos for heat and jarred 48 qts of salsa last September. I'm already half way through it :shock: Also jarred spaghetti sauce which reminds me of a question. Why does commercially produced spag sauce have so much sugar in it? It's tomato candy :gross:

Anyhow, good luck with your garden. Local production is the future of food.
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Re: Your thoughts on Farmers Markets

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Mikey wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 10:45 pm Most of the tree fruit around here is citrus. Also figs. If you haven't tried a grilled fresh fig with goat cheese melted on top, you're missing out.

I already have navel orange, tangelo and Meyer lemon trees so I don't really need any of that. Here's my tangelo tree a few days ago. We've been drinking fresh juice for probably a month and there's at least a couple months of fruit left up there.
I am very jealous of this. We visit AZ every spring and half the time I'm scouting for fruit off the ground before the ants get it. Speaking of which, some varieties of orange are not fit for human consumption. I scored some tangelo looking things from a cemetary and right before tasting noticed the birds weren't eating them. Huh...I wonder why *ewww nasty!*
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Re: Your thoughts on Farmers Markets

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mvscal wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 12:00 am Nice. No avocado tree?
The town I live in (Fallbrook) glosses itself "The Avocado Capital of the World." There's an avocado festival here every April. I think that the total acreage planted in avos has probably decreased by 50% in the past 40 or 50 years due to suburbanization, but still a lot of backyard and commercial growers. A lot of homeowners have avo trees left over from before the land was subdivided. That being said, I have sometimes thought that we are among the minority of lots without at least one tree. We tried to plant one a couple of years after we moved in, knowing jack shit about what to do, and it died during the first winter frost. That was about 20 years ago. Seriously planning on planting one or two this spring. Probably a Hass and a Reed. If you haven't ever tried a Reed avocado you haven't lived. Big and round like a softball and the best tasting of any variety, IMO. We can get them around here in the farmers markets and local groceries in the summer and early fall. I don't think many of them make it out of the immediate area because they don't have the shelf life or the tree life of a Haas. Avocados take a lot of care (and water) to succeed. The thing about our citrus trees is that you can pretty much ignore them except during really dry times when you need to add some water. One of the Meyer lemons is badly in need of pruning and thinning, something I haven't really done for probably 5 or 6 years.

We have a flat space just outside our family room, probably 700 sq feet, that we used to call the "mid-lawn," but I let the lawn die several years ago and now it's just a weed garden with two round septic tank access covers in the middle. A major project this year is going to be to clean this up and put in some raised beds. Been craving a productive kitchen garden for years, and now that I've retired I actually have some time. We've grown a few things out there before but just piecemeal. I've tried to grow heirloom tomatoes several times but the results haven't been too good. The vines get really big and have lots of flowers but then they just drop and produce zero fruit. I decided a long time ago that it's easier (and probably cheaper) to get them at the farmers market.

BTW, Fallbrook is also famous for cut flowers due to our basically 12 month growing season. Plus, "back in the day" it was very well-known among certain parts of society for a different crop.

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define. ... rook%20red

https://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/197 ... the-shade/

Still some of that, from what I hear...
Last edited by Mikey on Sun Jan 29, 2023 1:21 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Mikey
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Re: Your thoughts on Farmers Markets

Post by Mikey »

Rootbeer wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 12:29 am
mvscal wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2023 11:56 pm Looking forward to some pics of your set up. I've been thinking about a greenhouse, but not very seriously. I'm not even sure what it takes to make a hail proof greenhouse.
Do you know what growing zone you're in? I'm in 4B. It'll be -18°F the next two nights. My greenhouse will lose approx. 50,000 btu per hour at those temps. If I can geothermal to cover most or all of that loss I can grow year-round. I've run the numbers multiple times and I'm pretty sure I'm not missing anything but there's a wide gap between theory and application. I'll post pics.
I'll be really interested in hearing more about this as well. In my former life I was an engineer working in energy efficiency and renewables, and stuff like on site generation and waste heat utilization. When I see somebody talking about Btu’s it piques my interest.
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Ken
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Re: Your thoughts on Farmers Markets

Post by Ken »

mvscal wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2023 11:56 pm
Rootbeer wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 1:17 am Kierland backpedaling like he didn't just make a fool of himself is par for this 9 hole course, lol.

Did you guys know he owns a chain of successful seed-to-table farms, production facilities, transportation systems and retailing markets? Probably owns a merchant processing system like Jack Dorsey too! I had no idea either. If someone starts a NASA thread I bet he claims to be an astronaut. In a Jess The Rookie thread he'll claim to be an actor. In a midstream energy thread he'll claim to be a process control engineer. He won't substantiate these claims, mind you, but he will vomit words with an air of confidence as though everyone else is a fool for not realizing he's smarter than Elon Musk and more verbacious than Greg Gutfeld.

What a sad, strange little man. Smartest thing I've done in this forum is put that dickhead on ignore.
Looking forward to some pics of your set up. I've been thinking about a greenhouse, but not very seriously. I'm not even sure what it takes to make a hail proof greenhouse.

We have a small backyard plot. Got a couple hundred pounds of tomatoes last year and enough peppers for about a gallon of hot sauce. We extended the bed and planted garlic last fall, so that should be ready early summer.
There's really no such thing as a hail proof greenhouse, sorry. Poly sheeting, poly-carb, acrylic, glass, etc all stand no chance against a HEAVY hail storm. You just take your chances given where you're located.

I'm totally envious of you even having a small backyard plot. I'm on an acre and it is pretty much all shade with zero chance of a successful veg garden. I start a few tomatoes indoors that I prefer and have my neighbor grow them out for me in his garden. He gets a nice bottle of bourbon each year for his garden space.
Kierland

Re: Your thoughts on Farmers Markets

Post by Kierland »

Rootbeer wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 12:29 am My greenhouse will lose approx. 50,000 btu per hour at those temps.
Unless you are using direct geothermal like from a geyser or something which most people don’t have access to even in your neck of the woods, the economics of growing has turned from heating to lighting. It’s much cheaper to raise your r value even if it cuts out sunlight and just add the light yourself. The variable spectrum lighting these days is amazing. They make thermal blankets for cold frames with super high r values, most even have motorized canopy mobilization. We crunched the numbers for a glazed house in Tahoe (not as cold I know) and it was a no brainer, at least with weed as the target crop as it obviously depends on the hardiness of the target plant. And we didn’t even factor in the hail resistance insurance value, which they obviously increase, since we don’t get damaging hail round these parts very often.

But what do I know? It’s not like you started a thread asking for help.
Kierland

Re: Your thoughts on Farmers Markets

Post by Kierland »

Mikey wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 1:16 am
Rootbeer wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 12:29 am
mvscal wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2023 11:56 pm Looking forward to some pics of your set up. I've been thinking about a greenhouse, but not very seriously. I'm not even sure what it takes to make a hail proof greenhouse.
Do you know what growing zone you're in? I'm in 4B. It'll be -18°F the next two nights. My greenhouse will lose approx. 50,000 btu per hour at those temps. If I can geothermal to cover most or all of that loss I can grow year-round. I've run the numbers multiple times and I'm pretty sure I'm not missing anything but there's a wide gap between theory and application. I'll post pics.
I'll be really interested in hearing more about this as well. In my former life I was an engineer working in energy efficiency and renewables, and stuff like on site generation and waste heat utilization. When I see somebody talking about Btu’s it piques my interest.
Worked on a small R&D greenhouse where we dug trenches for the human access needed to maintain the crop thus cutting out the sidewall r value heat loss. Numbers didn’t crunch all that well but they do have automated on ground houses that also obviously cut out the side walls and the crop manipulation is either in house and automatic (watering and spraying) or the crop is rolled into an attached building.
The real future is in the soilless vertical hydroponics, mostly indoors. The kcal to acre production rate is untouchable.
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smackaholic
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Re: Your thoughts on Farmers Markets

Post by smackaholic »

Rootbeer wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 12:29 am Also jarred spaghetti sauce which reminds me of a question. Why does commercially produced spag sauce have so much sugar in it? It's tomato candy :gross:
Pretty simple answer there.

Sugar is dirt cheap.

I used to put a little sugar in sauce until a friend told me that carrots work a million times better. And they do. You get a lot of sweetness that is actually good for you allow with a flavor other that sweet. If I am making a decent sized pot of sauce, I might use the better part of a 2lb bag of carrots.
mvscal wrote:The only precious metals in a SHTF scenario are lead and brass.
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Re: Your thoughts on Farmers Markets

Post by smackaholic »

Kierland wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 3:13 am
Rootbeer wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 12:29 am My greenhouse will lose approx. 50,000 btu per hour at those temps.
Unless you are using direct geothermal like from a geyser or something which most people don’t have access to even in your neck of the woods, the economics of growing has turned from heating to lighting. It’s much cheaper to raise your r value even if it cuts out sunlight and just add the light yourself. The variable spectrum lighting these days is amazing. They make thermal blankets for cold frames with super high r values, most even have motorized canopy mobilization. We crunched the numbers for a glazed house in Tahoe (not as cold I know) and it was a no brainer, at least with weed as the target crop as it obviously depends on the hardiness of the target plant. And we didn’t even factor in the hail resistance insurance value, which they obviously increase, since we don’t get damaging hail round these parts very often.

But what do I know? It’s not like you started a thread asking for help.
Wow, an informative post from douchebag that I pretty much agree with. He almost pulled it off without going dickhead at all, but he slipped up a little on the last sentence. Can't help himself, I suppose.

My guess is a mix of artificial and natural light would be best, so long as the natural part has some sort of shutter system for night time insulation/hail protection.
mvscal wrote:The only precious metals in a SHTF scenario are lead and brass.
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smackaholic
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Re: Your thoughts on Farmers Markets

Post by smackaholic »

Mikey wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 1:08 am
mvscal wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 12:00 am Nice. No avocado tree?
The town I live in (Fallbrook) glosses itself "The Avocado Capital of the World." There's an avocado festival here every April. I think that the total acreage planted in avos has probably decreased by 50% in the past 40 or 50 years due to suburbanization, but still a lot of backyard and commercial growers. A lot of homeowners have avo trees left over from before the land was subdivided. That being said, I have sometimes thought that we are among the minority of lots without at least one tree. We tried to plant one a couple of years after we moved in, knowing jack shit about what to do, and it died during the first winter frost. That was about 20 years ago. Seriously planning on planting one or two this spring. Probably a Hass and a Reed. If you haven't ever tried a Reed avocado you haven't lived. Big and round like a softball and the best tasting of any variety, IMO. We can get them around here in the farmers markets and local groceries in the summer and early fall. I don't think many of them make it out of the immediate area because they don't have the shelf life or the tree life of a Haas. Avocados take a lot of care (and water) to succeed. The thing about our citrus trees is that you can pretty much ignore them except during really dry times when you need to add some water. One of the Meyer lemons is badly in need of pruning and thinning, something I haven't really done for probably 5 or 6 years.

We have a flat space just outside our family room, probably 700 sq feet, that we used to call the "mid-lawn," but I let the lawn die several years ago and now it's just a weed garden with two round septic tank access covers in the middle. A major project this year is going to be to clean this up and put in some raised beds. Been craving a productive kitchen garden for years, and now that I've retired I actually have some time. We've grown a few things out there before but just piecemeal. I've tried to grow heirloom tomatoes several times but the results haven't been too good. The vines get really big and have lots of flowers but then they just drop and produce zero fruit. I decided a long time ago that it's easier (and probably cheaper) to get them at the farmers market.

BTW, Fallbrook is also famous for cut flowers due to our basically 12 month growing season. Plus, "back in the day" it was very well-known among certain parts of society for a different crop.

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define. ... rook%20red

https://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/197 ... the-shade/

Still some of that, from what I hear...
Now that you have a little spare time on your hands, have you ever looked into switching over from a traditional septic system to some sort of composting system?

Such a system would put to good use all your gray water. And your shit and piss, if properly separated/processed, both make great fertilizer.

There's a lot of interesting stuff on it on youtube, mostly aimed at helping the third world with their horrendous sanitation systems, or lack there of. But they can also be of great benefit to suburban gentleman farmer types, especially in areas with water shortages and poor soil.
mvscal wrote:The only precious metals in a SHTF scenario are lead and brass.
Kierland

Re: Your thoughts on Farmers Markets

Post by Kierland »

smackaholic wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 3:07 am
Rootbeer wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 12:29 am Also jarred spaghetti sauce which reminds me of a question. Why does commercially produced spag sauce have so much sugar in it? It's tomato candy :gross:
Pretty simple answer there.

Sugar is dirt cheap.

I used to put a little sugar in sauce until a friend told me that carrots work a million times better. And they do. You get a lot of sweetness that is actually good for you allow with a flavor other that sweet. If I am making a decent sized pot of sauce, I might use the better part of a 2lb bag of carrots.
One word: Chocolate
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smackaholic
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Re: Your thoughts on Farmers Markets

Post by smackaholic »

Never tried chocolate in marinara sauce, but sounds interesting.

Do you use sweet chocolate, in which case, you are still using sugar. Why not use carrots for the sweetness, then some baking chocolate to give it a little kick?
mvscal wrote:The only precious metals in a SHTF scenario are lead and brass.
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