Can Non-Christians be Moral?

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upstart
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Can Non-Christians be Moral?

Post by upstart »

Question: ? I was a professional soldier for the last 25 years
and my kid is asking me why we are in a war with islamic
fascists ,and I told her it was a war between what we belive
to be true and what islamic nuts thinking is true.

Any way, she wrote this and got a F from her teacher.
>
>
Lots of people think that non christians can be
> moral. It makes sense, there are plently of
> non-christians that don't lie, or steal or murder.
> Christians relay on the Bible in order to determine
> what they should do, and what thier morals should
> be. However, the Bible doesn't give us any absolute
> truths as far as morals go. God gave us the ten
> commandments, and many people believe that they are
> moral if they obey them. God tells us in the ten
> commandments that we shall not murder, yet he sends
> his people to war. Many Christian groups (Crusades)
> have killed countless amounts of innocent people,
> babies, and destroyed towns. So, if the ten
> commandments are not ABSOLUTE truths, what are? Just
> because somebody is a Christian, they don't obey the
> law more than any athiest does. Infact, non
> Christians can end up doing even more for thier
> community, friends etc.
>
> However, at the end of the day, without God there
> would be no reason for morals. God has given us a
> sense of right and wrong. He has made it so that
> Christians have the Bible, and can try thier best to
> obey it. Not all Christians are 'moral' at all
> times, but they have a reason for trying to be
> moral. Although non-christians don't steal, thier
> motive is different. They don't steal because of
> law, or guilt. They don't lie because they would
> feel bad, or thier reputation would be ruined. This
> guilt or any other consequence would hurt them, so
> they try and be moral for thier own pleasure.
>
> In the absence of God, the reasons for having
> morals are not valid.
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poptart
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Post by poptart »

Three questions, upstart.

1. How old is your daughter .... ?

2. What class is it .... ?

3. Did teach' explain the reason for giving the paper an F .... ?

Her paper raised some interesting points and questions.
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Post by Mike the Lab Rat »

Before anyone gets outraged about the "F"...

What was the assignment? Did your daughter do what was required (find out from the teacher, NOT the kid).

I've given out "F's" on beautifully-composed and articulated essay/papers before...usually because the assignment turned in didn't follow the what was required (e.g., the kid turns in a personal opinion instead of an informational article requiring research and references...). The "F" is usually temporary, with the instructions to re-submit the work as assigned.
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Post by battery chucka' one »

It's obvious. She mis-spelled 'their'. F in any book. ;)

Just kidding. I didn't think it was awful. Not bad. Perhaps the teacher didn't approve of her taking the side of us crazy Christers. ;)
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Post by upstart »

poptart wrote:Three questions, upstart.

1. How old is your daughter .... ?

2. What class is it .... ?

3. Did teach' explain the reason for giving the paper an F .... ?

Her paper raised some interesting points and questions.
She is in 8th grade and the class was about "Morals, God and the war on terror"

I guess the question her teacher was asking is can non christians,that we are fighting

in the war on terror be moral. I sent the teacher a e-mail friday asking to see her about

this I will get back to you with the outcome.
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Post by Tom In VA »

Of course non-christians can be moral. I believe it's preposterous to suggest otherwise.
With all the horseshit around here, you'd think there'd be a pony somewhere.
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Post by Mike the Lab Rat »

Is this class in public school? If so, the topic is just asking for trouble.

Maybe the teacher expected some research or more knowledge of Islam - your daughter's essay makes it sound as though she is equating atheism and non-Christianity. It's apparent that she doesn't grasp that Muslims also believe in the God of Abraham and Isaac..they just don't buy the notion of Jesus of Nazareth as God Incarnate (which, I would argue, sort of means that they don't really believe in the same God as normal, Trinitarian Christians).
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Post by BSmack »

In the words of the great philosopher Billy Batts, "What's right is right. Right?"

Morality is the sum of ones societal influences and ones own conscience. It is not God dependent.
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Post by Dinsdale »

The "daughter" recieved an "F" on her paper. The rest of you should get an "F" for believing that Websters took the word "gullible" out of the dictionary.


Uhm...maybe the skank of a daughter got the "F" for being too fucking lazy to take the


>
>
>
>
>


out of the spam e-mail before turning it in as her own?


Nevermind that anyone who thinks christians somehow have a monopoly on morailty should be locked up in an insane asylum.
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Post by Mikey »

On a more basic level, Christianity is not the only religion with a set of "commandments". Anybody who claims that they are deserves an F from the start.
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Post by trev »

The paper looks too short for an 8th grade essay. Maybe that's why she got an F.

Is this for an English class or what?
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Post by Dinsdale »

Assuming that's a real paper(it isn't...> > > > out front of every line should have told you), and not the rightist-email-du-jour...

an 8th grader should be sent to the principal's office for turning in a paper that espouses such bigotry.


But, since an 8th grader didn't actually write that, no harm done.
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Post by RadioFan »

Put another RACK on the pile for Dins.

Focus, people.
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Post by Dinsdale »

>BTW
>that Nigerian dude
>doesn't
>really
>have
>a
>pile
>of
>cash
>for
>you


I guess my response to this is appropriate for this forum...


Dear fucking god, if you made these tards in your image, count me as being on-board with Buddha.
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Post by RadioFan »

Hey, did I ever tell you guys about the time the shark almost ate my Christian buddy?

Seriously, he was climbing up a ladder aboard a helicopter and this shark just suddenly jumped out of the water!

There just happened to be this other guy, who had a camera, at the exact moment.

Image

I don't know about you guys, but I'm pretty sure sharks don't like Christians. What do you think?

-- upstart
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Post by Mike the Lab Rat »

I had doubts about the source of the essay - the "quote arrows" and even the topic seemed fishy. I tried a snopes search, but got no match. Tried a google search on parts of it and got no match. My attitude was, in the absence of proof that it was lifted off a spam mailing, I'd treat it like it wasn't. Frankly, neither dins nor anyone else has actually proven that it WAS from a spam mailing, so save the pats on his back for now.

I figured that I'd go with it and, on a "snow day," burn some ATP by explaining why a teacher would give an "F" to it. It was poorly written (numerous errors in spelling, capitalization, grammar), poorly researched, with seriously flawed assumptions equating Islam with atheism and atheism with arbitrary morality.
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Post by upstart »

Dinsdale wrote:The "daughter" recieved an "F" on her paper. The rest of you should get an "F" for believing that Websters took the word "gullible" out of the dictionary.


Uhm...maybe the skank of a daughter got the "F" for being too fucking lazy to take the


>
>
>
>
>


out of the spam e-mail before turning it in as her own?


Nevermind that anyone who thinks christians somehow have a monopoly on morailty should be locked up in an insane asylum.
Its not spam she sent it to me in a e-mail so I could post it...and I haven't seen her teacher yet
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Post by trev »

I believe you upstart. But so far you've let us down.

I expect an explanation.
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Post by Eaglebauer »

RadioFan wrote:Hey, did I ever tell you guys about the time the shark almost ate my Christian buddy?

Seriously, he was climbing up a ladder aboard a helicopter and this shark just suddenly jumped out of the water!

There just happened to be this other guy, who had a camera, at the exact moment.

Image

I don't know about you guys, but I'm pretty sure sharks don't like Christians. What do you think?

-- upstart
:lol:
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Post by RadioFan »

upstart wrote:Its not spam she sent it to me in a e-mail so I could post it...and I haven't seen her teacher yet
And?

It's been 2 weeks now.
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Post by Shlomart Ben Yisrael »

upstart wrote: Its not spam she sent it to me in a e-mail so I could post it...and I haven't seen her teacher yet
Your 8th grader daughter e-mails you?

What an awesome Christian family.
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Post by RadioFan »

Oh wait, he'll have the answer any day now.

Probably along the lines of "Anything that you've heard about my daughter's operation aren't true, but please pass this along to 15 friends and she'll survive her ordeal."
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Post by poptart »

upstart was run.
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Post by Mike the Lab Rat »

poptart wrote:upstart was run.
I had figured that the teacher was recovering from having her kidneys stolen or had contracted HIV from an infected needle left in a payphone coin return slot.
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Post by Dinsdale »

Yeah, that's what you guys think...


upstart scored himself some bitchin penis enlargement pills, a grip of cayshe from Nigeria, and is now off to buy up some truck-ramps from Craigslist.
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Post by PSUFAN »

Can someone reset my password?

sin,

Image
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Post by Diego in Seattle »

Perhaps he's busy getting some strawberry lipstick for the teacher.
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Post by Dinsdale »

~9% of the US population are atheist.

~0.2% of prison inmates in the US are atheists.
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Post by poptart »

100% of atheists go to hell.
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Post by Q, West Coast Style »

poptart wrote:100% of atheists go to hell.
Santa Clause knows if you've been sleeping or if you are awake. Apparently, he also knows if you've bad or good.

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Post by poptart »

Being 'good' or 'bad' isn't the standard for eternal life, Q.

Nobody is righteous.
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Post by PSUFAN »

poptart wrote:100% of atheists go to hell.

What if they just didn't get the news?

What if they are being true in their athiesm - i.e they don't believe in God because they just remain unconvinced by the witch doctor's dance, and they refuse to lie about it?
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Post by poptart »

We look at things from man's point of view.
You know, it would be perfectly fair for God not to save anyone.

We have no right to impose on God our intuitive sense of what is appropriate.
Know your place.


Good reading -- Romans 9:20-24.
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Post by PSUFAN »

We have no right to impose on God our intuitive sense of what is appropriate.
I'm not a big bible fan either.
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Post by Tom In VA »

The Jewish holocaust survivor who gave his life so that his students could live .....

While he might not have verbalized that he "Accepted Jesus Christ as his personal savior" or donned the moniker of one of the multitude of Chrisitan denominations this man's actions and the charity in his heart and soul to sacrifice HIS own life for other is Christian at it's core. Therefore, I believe when all is said and done and the Father who is the sole judge and authority on who is Christian and who is not will ......

Hold this man in high regard.

"No greater love" and all that.


Yet another testimony that non-christians can be moral and in fact ..... more christian than some christians.
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Post by Mikey »

PSUFAN wrote:
poptart wrote:100% of atheists go to hell.

What if they just didn't get the news?
See George Carlin's writings on Heaven, Hell, Purgatory and Limbo.
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Post by RadioFan »

poptart wrote:100% of atheists go to hell.
poptart wrote:Nobody is righteous.
I don't get it.
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Post by poptart »

Nobody is granted eternal life on their merit.
Only on Christ's merit.

Tom, you're expressing a feel-good theology which is not only not Biblical, but which slaps Christ across the face.
The heroic man no doubt heard of Christ very often, heard of his suffering and sacrifice, and yet rejected him ....... we assume.

If folks can meet God and have eternal life through their own actions or deeds, Christ need not have died.
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Post by Tom In VA »

poptart wrote:Nobody is granted eternal life on their merit.
Only on Christ's merit.

Tom, you're expressing a feel-good theology which is not only not Biblical, but which slaps Christ across the face.
The heroic man no doubt heard of Christ very often, heard of his suffering and sacrifice, and yet rejected him ....... we assume.

If folks can meet God and have eternal life through their own actions or deeds, Christ need not have died.
The man followed the commandments Christ gave to the letter.

I don't see how that was a slap in the face.

How about this, it's God's kingdom, He'll let in whomever He chooses and there isn't much you or I can do about it.

Love God ... this man did, he loved God's precious creations so much he gave his life to save them.

Love your brother ... this man did, he loved his brothers and sisters so much gave his life to save them.

I view the man's sacrifice as inspirational and highest forms of following God's commandments. Moral.

You know the bible better than me, to be sure.

But neither of us can claim the knowledge you're trying to claim here.
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Post by rozy »

Tom In VA wrote:
poptart wrote:Nobody is granted eternal life on their merit.
Only on Christ's merit.

Tom, you're expressing a feel-good theology which is not only not Biblical, but which slaps Christ across the face.
The heroic man no doubt heard of Christ very often, heard of his suffering and sacrifice, and yet rejected him ....... we assume.

If folks can meet God and have eternal life through their own actions or deeds, Christ need not have died.
The man followed the commandments Christ gave to the letter.

I don't see how that was a slap in the face.

How about this, it's God's kingdom, He'll let in whomever He chooses and there isn't much you or I can do about it.

Love God ... this man did, he loved God's precious creations so much he gave his life to save them.

Love your brother ... this man did, he loved his brothers and sisters so much gave his life to save them.

I view the man's sacrifice as inspirational and highest forms of following God's commandments. Moral.

You know the bible better than me, to be sure.

But neither of us can claim the knowledge you're trying to claim here.
The verse that Joel Osteen conveniently forgot.

"Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." John 14:6

Pretty simple, T.
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